Support NeoGAF

[Boss Mog]

OP doesn't even understand what Astro is. The core gameplay is about finding the bots not difficult platforming. That's literally what the challange levels are there for. It's the same as Mario 64, the objective is to find the stars, none of Mario 64's levels are hard platforming-wise. It also had challenge levels.

 

[Topher]

The challenge levels are there for those who increased difficulty. To me, it was simply a great game all around.

 

[hyperbertha]

Imo a good platformer should be comfy and kinda easy while still offering some optional platforming challenges for those that want to tackle them. Collectibles also can help adding to the challenge, if they are well hidden.

So yeah, make the critical path of the game easy for the kids, add optional challening stuff for the adults.

Why? Platformers doesn't have to be for kids. And kids games should be challenging too not piss easy

 

[Zacfoldor]

I've been saying this since the beginning and I'm starting to learn that I do kinda parrot myself on here a bit. Anyway...

The problem with astro isn't the difficulty, it's the lack of moves for the little dude. Give him a dive, give him Mario's moves. In Odyssey, Mario had a giant array of moves. Like, huge. They probably gave him at least double the moves of Mario 64, which already had way more moves than Astro does.

Now Nintendo takes this a step further by actually having puzzles only solvable by these sometimes complex moves. However, Astro won't get there in one iteration. First they just need to add the moves. Then worry about baking them into the world in Astro 3.

Astrobot was the game of the year in a year with low competition. It has potential, but is isn't nearly as good as most 3D Mario games. Sorry. I give it a 9.5/10 goty but it is worse than Odyssey and doesn't nearly provide the challenge or the arcadey gaminess of something like Super Mario 3D World + Bowser’s Fury.

What is actually happening here isn't that astro is worse than you thought, it's just that you probably don't play mario and have been underestimating those games for years and gaslighting yourself into believing every metric, including metacritic, that you could possible point to was biased. It's not. Astro is good but not a goat, which is becoming more clear the further we move away from release.

 

[Iced Arcade]

I had a bitch of a time with the golden boy. Was my goty without a doubt

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

The "targeted to kids" argument that people tend to rally behind is such a cop-out, and I appreciate you calling out that plenty of platformers back in the day still had nuance and some concept of a difficulty curve.

Astrobot's amusing, but it's fun more in that "Disneyland attraction" sorta way than as a video game.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

Astro Bot is kinda like Lamar Jackson in that they're both media darlings and will get defended because reasons.

 

[RoadHazard]

It was one of the most fun gaming experiences of the last decade for me, but yes, I would have liked some more challenging levels. Some of the symbol levels took me a few tries, but overall it's a very easy game.

 

[Certinty]

One of my favourite games ever and easily my 2024 GOTY but I somewhat agree.

Besides the final challenge (the fire one wasn’t even hard despite what people say), the rest is pure easy.

Would have liked a few more real challenges.

 

[bundylove]

This. There are a number of awful levels at the very end that will make you tear your hair out. I quit at 299 bots.

You are weak.
My 10 year old daughter got all of them.

 

[Kenneth Haight]

To start - I think Astrobot was overall an amazing game. Extremely polished, great visuals/audio, oozes charm, etc. It's clearly a labour of love. It wasn't my personal GOTY but I'm not mad at it winning.

If there's one thing that was disappointing, it's the difficulty. Or rather the lack of it.

1) There's basically no ramp in the game. The first area was understandably easy but it just never demands anything more of you. It doesn't iterate on the platforming challenges in any meaningful way and it feels like you're a tourist the entire time. You're doing short, impossible to miss jumps/hovers from beginning to end. The only exception to this was the challenge levels (Square/Circle/Cross/Triangle), which are coincidentally some of the best in the game.

2) Astro's base move set is super limited and honestly kind of sucks? There's nothing advanced you can even do to make the game more challenging within its level design. Mario Odyssey had a similar issue in terms of not demanding precision, but this was at least somewhat offset by the ability to choose to use the different tech to get around the level faster/skip things entirely. Odyssey would also be better if more difficult but Mario has a long jump, double/triple jumps, wall jumps, cap tech which you can repeatedly chain once you get good enough, etc. Astro has a jump and a short hover, neither of which allow you to do much of anything beyond the obvious.

Maybe it's because I grew up on platformers, but to me, all the best ones have some level of challenge. It's core to the experience - a good platformer has precise controls and precise controls are best enjoyed when the game demands them.

And I get it's a genre/game targeted at kids. These are mass market products and I'm not expecting it to be like Celeste. But that's always been true. SMB, SMB3, SMW and SM64 were all targeted at kids. DKC/DKC2/DKC3 were targeted at kids. Lion King was targeted at kids. Crash Bandicoot was targeted at kids. None of these games are what I would call difficult, but they do have challenging aspects, and I think they're better becasue of it.

Show us your platinum OP

 

[KungFucius]

Difficult and replay ability are things I no longer care about in games and haven't since the SNES maybe early N64 days. I want to relax and feel like I am a good gamer even though I quit hitting the gaming gym once I hit adulthood. I skipped all the symbol levels because they were just about as ass-flavored as the special levels in Mario Sunshine.

 

[kevboard]

Difficult and replay ability are things I no longer care about in games and haven't since the SNES maybe early N64 days. I want to relax and feel like I am a good gamer even though I quit hitting the gaming gym once I hit adulthood. I skipped all the symbol levels because they were just about as ass-flavored as the special levels in Mario Sunshine.

that is insane... at that point Youtube longplays might be an option and saves money lol

 

[iHaunter]

Not every game needs to be a souls game.

 

[Harlock]

Is targeted to game journalists, not kids. Kids play Fortnite, Minecraft and Roblox.

 

[lughnasadh123]

If it's acceptable that games can be very hard than it's also fine that they can be very easy.

 

[NeonDelta]

I would have liked to have an option to play with lives, 3 per level or something but I wouldn’t want to have it mandatory

 

[Danjin44]

If it's acceptable that games can be very hard than it's also fine that they can be very easy.

Variety, I enjoy challenging games but I dont want every game I play to have high difficulty because that would burn me out.

Sometimes I do want play games that just mindless fun and sometimes I need that crazy challenging game.

There is room for both.

 

[bundylove]

I've been saying this since the beginning and I'm starting to learn that I do kinda parrot myself on here a bit. Anyway...

The problem with astro isn't the difficulty, it's the lack of moves for the little dude. Give him a dive, give him Mario's moves. In Odyssey, Mario had a giant array of moves. Like, huge. They probably gave him at least double the moves of Mario 64, which already had way more moves than Astro does.

Now Nintendo takes this a step further by actually having puzzles only solvable by these sometimes complex moves. However, Astro won't get there in one iteration. First they just need to add the moves. Then worry about baking them into the world in Astro 3.

Astrobot was the game of the year in a year with low competition. It has potential, but is isn't nearly as good as most 3D Mario games. Sorry. I give it a 9.5/10 goty but it is worse than Odyssey and doesn't nearly provide the challenge or the arcadey gaminess of something like Super Mario 3D World + Bowser’s Fury.

What is actually happening here isn't that astro is worse than you thought, it's just that you probably don't play mario and have been underestimating those games for years and gaslighting yourself into believing every metric, including metacritic, that you could possible point to was biased. It's not. Astro is good but not a goat, which is becoming more clear the further we move away from release.

Show me proof you even played this game.
Based on what you write here i say you didnt

 

[reinking]

The game was made for fun. It accomplished that goal as evident by the recognition it has received in the gaming community. If they had made it too difficult, it would not be the game it is.

 

[PatientGamer]

I've beaten three of those lost void PS shapes worlds so far. Some are really difficult. Others are noticeably easier/quicker. Just requires good reflections and the use of some brain cells.

Still going through the campaign, nothing's challenged too much so far - but I usually play my games on the hardest setting anyway.

Astro's difficulty is fine for the most part, especially given its target audience.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

If you want the Dark Souls of 3D platformers you should go make it. Neither Nintendo nor Sony want to artificially limit their audience that way

 

[TintoConCasera]

Why? Platformers doesn't have to be for kids. And kids games should be challenging too not piss easy

Mind you I was thinking about 3D platformers like Banjo or Mario 64. I think those games are best when they are comfy 80% of the time but have self-contained challenges along the level. Don't need to have the whole level be a gauntlet of platform challenges, I think that would make it a bit stressing, tiresome and poorly paced. For example, imagine those little levels in Mario Sunshine were you don't have the water thingy. They are my fav part of that game, but if they would be the whole game I could have seen myself getting tired of it very easily.

I don't mind 2D platformers being challenging ofc. In fact, I think those shine the most when they are hard as balls, unless they have some kind of puzzle or exploration component like in Super Mario World.

Just my opinion ofc, I'm no game designer. But that's my preference when it comes to those 2 types of games.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Astro Bot is great the way it is.

 

[Jinzo Prime]

Not every game needs to be a souls game.

Is that what he said? He wants a game with more movement tech and a bit more challenge. Thant is not anywhere near asking for a souls-like or even a Celeste-like. People can fairly criticize things they like.

 

[lughnasadh123]

Variety, I enjoy challenging games but I dont want every game I play to have high difficulty because that would burn me out.

Sometimes I do want play games that just mindless fun and sometimes I need that crazy challenging game.

There is room for both.

Variety is great, absolutely. I'll always prefer having options in games to tune that to someone's own personal liking but also accept that's not always going to happen.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

This thread a week after the Spider-man 2 is terrible. *Spoilers* thread?

Yeah, it's pretty obvious what some people are trying to do.

 

[CityHunter1981]

I don’t think so, I felt it was just right in the challenge levels. I would even go that far to say that I would have preferred some checkpoints, at least in the last level.

 

[Danjin44]

Variety is great, absolutely. I'll always prefer having options in games to tune that to someone's own personal liking but also accept that's not always going to happen.

I prefer devs’s creative freedom. If devs want to make a difficult game with no difficulty option then thats their choice.

Same with devs who want to make their games easy, thats their choice.

We also have option to pick and choose the games we that fits our taste.

 

[clarky]

This thread a week after the Spider-man 2 is terrible. *Spoilers* thread?

Yeah, it's pretty obvious what some people are trying to do.

Discuss videogames?

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Discuss videogames?

Randomly bringing up successful Sony games well after their releases to shit on them?

Yeah, I mean it certainly is discussion.

 

[clarky]

If you want the Dark Souls of 3D platformers you should go make it. Neither Nintendo nor Sony want to artificially limit their audience that way

Try telling that to Donkey Kong.

 

[clarky]

Randomly bringing up successful Sony games well after their releases to shit on them?

Yeah, I mean it certainly is discussion.

Ok? I like Astrobot but i agree with the OP, it is too easy. Great game though, hardly shitting on it.

I felt the same about Oddessy for the record. Found that pretty disappointing after all the hype.

 

[TrebleShot]

We like easy games that don't stress us out. That's why we mod easy mode into elden ring

 

[kevboard]

OP doesn't even understand what Astro is. The core gameplay is about finding the bots not difficult platforming. That's literally what the challange levels are there for. It's the same as Mario 64, the objective is to find the stars, none of Mario 64's levels are hard platforming-wise. It also had challenge levels.

the difference is that Mario 64 has satisfying controls and movement options.
Astro Bot has basically nothing except decent technical polish and fan service.
it's such an insanely shallow game.

Astro Bot movement: Run, Jump, Hover, Punch, Spinattack.
Mario 64 movement: Run, Jump, Double/Triple Jump, Crouch, Punch, Jump Kick, Slide Kick, Crouch Kick, Backflip, Sideflip, Dive Jump, Wall Kick... and that's just the basic options, you can use all of these in more advanced ways, like the Jump Kick can function as a double jump in some situations or as a way to keep your momentum out of a dive etc.
the only advanced tech in Astro Bot is that attacking mid air sliiiiiiighly extends your jump... basically a less effective version of New SMB's mid-air twirl

in short, you can get better at Mario 64 as you play it longer, but Astro Bot's skill ceiling is so low that by the end of the first 4 levels or so you already mastered nearly everything there is to master. and in combination with the the level design it doesn't really allow for player expression either.


finding the secrets is also not a challenge, because the levels are mostly linear with very little exploration outside of a handful of exceptions.
the biggest challenge when trying to find secrets is the unbelievably slow camera turn speed, which is so slow that you'd be excused to think your right stick is broken.
and no, a platformer doesn't necessarily need to be hard,
nor does it absolutely need to be mechanically deep or super innovative...
but it should be one of these at the very least, or else it has very little going for it other than "huh, that looks cute".

Super Meat Boy isn't innovative or mechanically deep, but it's challenging.

Super Mario Galaxy isn't that mechanically deep but somewhat challenging and innovative.

Super Mario Odyssey is mechanically deep and innovative, but has almost no challenge outside of the last bonus worlds.

Super Mario 64 is mechanically deep, was innovative at the time, but isn't that challenging.

Penny’s Big Breakaway is mechanically deep, somewhat innovative, and somewhat challenging.

Super Mario Bros. was innovative at the time, not really deep, but challenging.

Yellow Taxi Goes Vroom is mechanically not that deep but has some advanced tech to learn and master, it's innovative and somewhat challenging.

Donkey Kong Country is mechanically not that deep (some advanced tech but not much), not really innovative, but it's challenging.

Shovel Knight has some depth, isn't really innovative, but is somewhat challenging.

Shovel Knight: Plague of Shadows has depth, is innovative and is somewhat challenging.

and then we have Astro Bot, which mechanically has no depth, which has zero innovation, and no challenge outside of 2 or 3 bonus levels.

it just stands out to anyone who dabbles in this genre imo. everything it does has been done before, after a few levels you basically mastered it completely already, and if you played maybe half of the games I listed above, you should at no point feel any challenge playing it.

 

[saintjules]

You have your answer.

And that Lion King game, especially the Genesis version, is ridiculously difficult even for the most seasoned players, that's a whole different matter.

Agreed. I remember how hard that game was.

 

[poppabk]

This thread a week after the Spider-man 2 is terrible. *Spoilers* thread?

Yeah, it's pretty obvious what some people are trying to do.

Is Astrobot even announced for PC yet?

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

I’ve barely played it and I agree. I got it for my youngest kid because he loved Playroom, even he wasn’t a big fan because of how easy it is.

 

[ElCasual]

The next Astro's Game will be called Astro Souls.

 

[Werewolf Jones]

Reddit Tier opinion.

 

[Efren is G.O.A.T.]

I agree with you OP. I loved Astrobot but too easy overall.

 

[Sooner]

Astrobot was extremely .. difficult ..

Git gud

 

[Sebastian1295]

the difference is that Mario 64 has satisfying controls and movement options.
Astro Bot has basically nothing except decent technical polish and fan service.
it's such an insanely shallow game.

Astro Bot movement: Run, Jump, Hover, Punch, Spinattack.
Mario 64 movement: Run, Jump, Double/Triple Jump, Crouch, Punch, Jump Kick, Slide Kick, Crouch Kick, Backflip, Sideflip, Dive Jump, Wall Kick... and that's just the basic options, you can use all of these in more advanced ways, like the Jump Kick can function as a double jump in some situations or as a way to keep your momentum out of a dive etc.
the only advanced tech in Astro Bot is that attacking mid air sliiiiiiighly extends your jump... basically a less effective version of New SMB's mid-air twirl

in short, you can get better at Mario 64 as you play it longer, but Astro Bot's skill ceiling is so low that by the end of the first 4 levels or so you already mastered nearly everything there is to master. and in combination with the the level design it doesn't really allow for player expression either.


finding the secrets is also not a challenge, because the levels are mostly linear with very little exploration outside of a handful of exceptions.
the biggest challenge when trying to find secrets is the unbelievably slow camera turn speed, which is so slow that you'd be excused to think your right stick is broken.
and no, a platformer doesn't necessarily need to be hard,
nor does it absolutely need to be mechanically deep or super innovative...
but it should be one of these at the very least, or else it has very little going for it other than "huh, that looks cute".

Super Meat Boy isn't innovative or mechanically deep, but it's challenging.

Super Mario Galaxy isn't that mechanically deep but somewhat challenging and innovative.

Super Mario Odyssey is mechanically deep and innovative, but has almost no challenge outside of the last bonus worlds.

Super Mario 64 is mechanically deep, was innovative at the time, but isn't that challenging.

Penny’s Big Breakaway is mechanically deep, somewhat innovative, and somewhat challenging.

Super Mario Bros. was innovative at the time, not really deep, but challenging.

Yellow Taxi Goes Vroom is mechanically not that deep but has some advanced tech to learn and master, it's innovative and somewhat challenging.

Donkey Kong Country is mechanically not that deep (some advanced tech but not much), not really innovative, but it's challenging.

Shovel Knight has some depth, isn't really innovative, but is somewhat challenging.

Shovel Knight: Plague of Shadows has depth, is innovative and is somewhat challenging.

and then we have Astro Bot, which mechanically has no depth, which has zero innovation, and no challenge outside of 2 or 3 bonus levels.

it just stands out to anyone who dabbles in this genre imo. everything it does has been done before, after a few levels you basically mastered it completely already, and if you played maybe half of the games I listed above, you should at no point feel any challenge playing it.

Mario odyssey didn't have any innovation man. The levels were very small and i didn't feel like i was on a true space adventure the entire time playing said game. The gameplay was simplistic and face roll easy and their weren't that many powerups 'things you could control with cappy' and the ones that were their were simplistic and not innovative and also had basic move sets. Nothing mario odyssey did was innovative and i played and beat the entire game front to back. It was the worst 3d mario game of the entire series in my opinion. It was just a collectathon that got stale because of how many filler moons they put in the game. If you want an innovative mario space experience than mario galaxy 1 and 2 blow odyssey out of the water with innovation for days.

 

[kevboard]

Mario odyssey didn't have any innovation man. The levels were very small and i didn't feel like i was on a true space adventure the entire time playing said game. The gameplay was simplistic and face roll easy and their weren't that many powerups 'things you could control with cappy' and the ones that were their were simplistic and not innovative and also had basic move sets. Nothing mario odyssey did was innovative and i played and beat the entire game front to back. It was the worst 3d mario game of the entire series in my opinion. It was just a collectathon that got stale because of how many filler moons they put in the game.

being able to control most enemies was something that wasn't done before in this way. so it absolutely was innovative. was is the pinnacle of innovation? no, but if you put it into contrast with Astro Bot in particular... then oh boy... and that's the point here.

the moveset in Odyssey is also by far the deepest of any platformer out there, with such an insane amount of base moves and combos you can do with them that I'm pretty sure I couldn't even name them all.
calling it simplistic either means you never learned all the moves or you have an extremely high standard when it comes to depth... at which point basically no platformer in the world could ever satisfy you

if you liked it or not is a different topic altogether, but claiming it has no depth is insane, and claiming it has no innovation is intellectually dishonest.



EDIT
just to illustate the very basics of Odyssey's depth I made a quick video.
I show most of the moves you can do (although I think I forgot to include a few like crouch flip and backflip)

and I'm showing a simple jump combo at the end up to some hidden coins, that's an easy one... there are combos in this game that I probably would fail at even tho I played this game 5x as long as Astro Bot.



even this simple trick go get up there took me multiple tries because I am rusty in the game as I haven't played it in more than a year, and haven't played it seriously since 2 months after it came out.

and in order to make it up there you need to experiment with the controls, you need to get decent at them, and you need to notice the potential to use them.
and that's what's fun about games like Odyssey to me. it's the mastering of the game.

yes, completing it is easy, but getting really really good at it isn't.
like Tony Hawk games are also easy to complete, but doing crazy highscores isn't.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Is Astrobot even announced for PC yet?

?

 

[Humdinger]

I understand what you're saying but personally, I'm glad to hear it's on the easy side. I don't like platformers that are too challenging. I'd rather they be a little on the easy side. For some reason, I find repeatedly dying because I can't get a sequence of button presses down frustrating, not fun. My attitude is different when playing a shooter, but when I'm playing a platformer, I want it to be lightweight fun. So a little easy is better than too frustrating. I just hope it's not so easy that it's boring - that happens, too.

 

[fran.fernandez]

My almost 5 years old beat it almost 100%.

The only stages he couldn’t beat alone was the one using the gyro axis . But running, jumping . No issue , even the lavas or the run trials lol

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

To start - I think Astrobot was overall an amazing game. Extremely polished, great visuals/audio, oozes charm, etc. It's clearly a labour of love. It wasn't my personal GOTY but I'm not mad at it winning.

If there's one thing that was disappointing, it's the difficulty. Or rather the lack of it.

1) There's basically no ramp in the game. The first area was understandably easy but it just never demands anything more of you. It doesn't iterate on the platforming challenges in any meaningful way and it feels like you're a tourist the entire time. You're doing short, impossible to miss jumps/hovers from beginning to end. The only exception to this was the challenge levels (Square/Circle/Cross/Triangle), which are coincidentally some of the best in the game.

2) Astro's base move set is super limited and honestly kind of sucks? There's nothing advanced you can even do to make the game more challenging within its level design. Mario Odyssey had a similar issue in terms of not demanding precision, but this was at least somewhat offset by the ability to choose to use the different tech to get around the level faster/skip things entirely. Odyssey would also be better if more difficult but Mario has a long jump, double/triple jumps, wall jumps, cap tech which you can repeatedly chain once you get good enough, etc. Astro has a jump and a short hover, neither of which allow you to do much of anything beyond the obvious.

Maybe it's because I grew up on platformers, but to me, all the best ones have some level of challenge. It's core to the experience - a good platformer has precise controls and precise controls are best enjoyed when the game demands them.

And I get it's a genre/game targeted at kids. These are mass market products and I'm not expecting it to be like Celeste. But that's always been true. SMB, SMB3, SMW and SM64 were all targeted at kids. DKC/DKC2/DKC3 were targeted at kids. Lion King was targeted at kids. Crash Bandicoot was targeted at kids. None of these games are what I would call difficult, but they do have challenging aspects, and I think they're better becasue of it.

Disappointing to read. I loved the pack in game and am still looking forward to playing the full game, but no difficulty ramp is disappointing. Mario has the same problem.

 

[solidus12]

Astro Bot was perfect.

 

[Touch fuzZy. get BizZay]

I don't want to praise such and over praised game but it's great without needing to be challenging. Challenge is just one way a game can be enjoyable, and only when it's done right.

You want another amazing platformer, try Kirby and the Forgotten Land on switch. It's especially great to play with kids because it really isn't challenging for the most part, although there's some tricky optional parts. But it's filled with creativity and variety to keep things fresh, fun and entertaining.