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[Plywood]

^ Totally being my signature if we get them.

*N/B The above terms and regulations are subject to change without prior announcement. (c) 2011 Ubermatik LLC all rights reserved.

There will never be sigs on GAF. Ever.

 

[eudaemonic]

Say I post something that I own all rights to - legal documents and all that. I'm giving NeoGAF (or it could be any site) permission to give permission to someone else to use my stuff because I posted it on the site... correct?

If so, couldn't they be pulled into a legal dispute if they gave permission to a party that ended up in litigation and that party claimed the site gave them the permission and not the original owner?

Has this ever come up?

Spoiler

Law makes my head hurt.

 

[Übermatik]

There will never be sigs on GAF. Ever.

Well not now, obviously, because I own the idea. Do I? I'm so confused.

 

[Vanillalite]

Only portion that made me scratch my head is why PMs are included in this since they are well PMs.

I'll fully admit in a perfect world I'd probably have issue with this. Just because stuff gets jacked from all over the internet all the time doesn't make it right. That can of worms has long been opened though, and we aren't going to ever be able to put that genie back in the bottle anytime soon. So everyone operates on this being the norm already.

So because of this I'm actually happy about the new TOS as at least it semi clarifies things, gives Evilore a little clarity when dealing with external sites, and gives hopefully alerts all of us posters around here.

Only thing I wish is that it was non transferable as some have stated incase GAF ever got hijacked by a seemingly good hearted person that turns out to in it for themselves.

PS: I am confused on something a mod a few pages back said about how all the images here aren't really here, but hosted through someone else and linked back to GAF? How does this work exactly, and what does that mean?

PPS: In a cool world sites like Kotaku would ask thread creators for permission and as well as our overlord EvilLore, but alas we don't live in that world.

 

[Plasmid]

I've acquired blame space LLC in a hostile takeover...just to shut it down

I just closed a subsidiary of echoshifting corporation and now own a fair share.

Sorry.

 

[StealthGoblin]

Lucky I read this before I discussed my awesome idea out in the open. Only one member here knows how delicious it would be.

 

[Corto]

Wasn't there an instance where another forum blatantly copy-pasted whole content from here? I was not around but I remember reading something about it on another thread. Hope that this prevents that.

 

[MYeager]

I don't see a problem, though I do agree as a matter of courtesy it would be nice to let the original poster know that his work might be broadcast elsewhere, at least to then give him an option to edit/clean it up.

I also agree with the poster that said that this seems like a way for Kotaku to generate content without actually paying someone for freelance work. Given they have employees who are also writers, it does seem odd that instead of coming up with original conent or contracted content that they have an agreement to get content from a different message board. As far as NeoGAF goes it seems like a good way of promoting and extending the influence of the site.

 

[Kosmo]

#OccupyNeoGAF ???

If you put it on the internet, consider it public domain.

 

[charlequin]

If you don't have a wife - go get one.

Sound legal advice as always.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

I also agree with the poster that said that this seems like a way for Kotaku to generate content without actually paying someone for freelance work. Given they have employees who are also writers, it does seem odd that instead of coming up with original conent or contracted content that they have an agreement to get content from a different message board. As far as NeoGAF goes it seems like a good way of promoting and extending the influence of the site.

Perhaps someone is getting paid...

 

[Keylime]

GAF is going to make trillions off of this guy's inventions now. I don't think that's right!

GAF branded SniperKnives in every department store in America. I can see it already.

 

[crowphoenix]

Well, fuck no. I participated in the creative writing threads. That work is mine. I will remove it from NeoGaf this instant. And I will never post or link to another thing I do.

This shit is fucking scummy, and the fact that it was just slipped in is ridiculous. Whoever decided this should be ashamed of themselves.

 

[Jocchan]

Only portion that made me scratch my head is why PMs are included in this since they are well PMs.

Anyone could copy-paste publicly the PMs you send them.

Sound legal advice as always.

And more work for divorce lawyers.

 

[Zabka]

I'm fine with whatever keeps NetJeff around.

 

[erpg]

PS: I am confused on something a mod a few pages back said about how all the images here aren't really here, but hosted through someone else and linked back to GAF? How does this work exactly, and what does that mean?

NeoGAF isn't an imagehost.

 

[EviLore]

"He" who? Evilore? Are you really saying Evilore is a renegade millionaire?

If you haven't noticed, NeoGAF is basically the largest general interest english language video game forum anymore that isn't owned by some huge corporation. And the rest are owned by huge corporations because giant sacks of money get offered to the owners. And I've been offered giant sacks of money too. Giant. Sacks. I keep the monetization minimalist though and I haven't sold out because... well, draw your own conclusions.

But if you guys hate me and don't want me running the site, let me know, I've always wanted my own tropical island! Just kidding, don't take that as a veiled threat to lockstep, if gaffers are anything they're vocal and fierce and independent, which makes you all a pain in the ass but not something I can be too aggravated about.

 

[ScOULaris]

Are you mad about this? People are certainly concerned but it was your thread that was chosen.

Nah, I'm not mad. As was discussed over on the Gaming Discussion equivalent of this thread, this is hardly different from how every other public forum on the Internet operates. Hell, half of the time websites steal from each other and quote forum posts without linking back to the original thread or crediting anyone. At least Kotaku asked EviLore for permission first and gave me a byline with a direct link to the actual thread. I think it's a good thing for NeoGAF discussions to get that extra exposure.

Face it. When you post something on a public forum, you're essentially making it public domain. When you click that "Submit" button, you're already publishing your writing and/or pictures for all to see freely. If a high-profile website highlights your post, gives you credit, and makes no attempt to pass it off as their own writing, then I don't see what the problem is.

We don't own the words that we post to this forum, just like we give up ownership of videos that we post to YouTube and pictures we post to Facebook. That's how the Internet has worked for a very long time.

I do understand that it gets a little iffy when Kotaku is making ad money off of clicks to my writing, but that's a gray area inherent with blogging and referencing other websites. When I made that thread, I did so with no intention of profiting from it. I think Kotaku Asks is decent idea, and it does nothing but attract positive attention toward our discussions.

The only thing that could have been handled better in this situation would be for Crecente to have asked me for permission or at least notified me before using my thread. By no means did he have to, but it would have been in good practice.

 

[Auto_aim1]

But they did not ask the thread creator.

Yeah, in this case they didn't, but he was fine with it and if, in the future, they do ask for permission, it's no longer an issue, right? I mean, you can't do anything in most cases if some obscure website takes your post from GAF and uses that to get hits (after crediting of course).

 

[blame space]

All,

I am currently in the process of forming blame space enterprises, LLC and would appreciate your reverence regarding the company's current status. I am also available on twitter for further correspondence.

@blame_space
© 2011 blame space enterprises, LLC
blame.space@gmail.com

 

[Corto]

Well, fuck no. I participated in the creative writing threads. That work is mine. I will remove it from NeoGaf this instant. And I will never post or link to another thing I do.

This shit is fucking scummy, and the fact that it was just slipped in is ridiculous. Whoever decided this should be ashamed of themselves.

I understand your reaction and I would react all the same believe me. But you should take this as a warning. Everything that you post in a public forum is fair game to whoever chooses to take it.

 

[commish]

Actually, "such submissions" doesn't even have a clear referent at the moment. Looks like the "By registering an account at NeoGAF.com and participating (including but not limited to submitting replies or private messages)" was grafted badly to the boilerplate following; "such submissions" in the boilerplate looks like it's meant to connect back to where we've got "participating (including..." now.

Yeah, that part needs to be cleaned up. All you gotta do is define submissions.

 

[dacuk]

I hope that, next to the search capability, our personal profiles could be also updated to reflect and keep more information. I was juniored more than 1 year ago, I do not know why, or if its permanent or not.

 

[echoshifting]

Well, fuck no. I participated in the creative writing threads. That work is mine. I will remove it from NeoGaf this instant. And I will never post or link to another thing I do.

This shit is fucking scummy, and the fact that it was just slipped in is ridiculous. Whoever decided this should be ashamed of themselves.

Aw, this is a bummer. I've enjoyed what I've read of your work. I'm sure the participants in those threads will miss you.

I may not agree that this is a significant change, but to each their own, and I hope you aren't criticized for feeling this way. I will never forget the day I stumbled on my own work being published on the internet as someone else's creative property. Horrible feeling.

 

[enzo_gt]

I don't think the current version of the forum software supports that, actually, or I would have. When we update to the newer software in a few days, in order to get full search back and other features, I can go ahead and do that if it'll clarify things for people.

This thread is now about the search update in a few days :O

I haven't seen EviLore answer why this applies to PMs though, so I would like to see him answer that. Seems strange.

 

[Vanillalite]

NeoGAF isn't an imagehost.

I get get, but do we know then who GAF uses for an image host? Does this mean this 3rd party image host also has rights to pics and stuff? Not that it's a big deal to me, but I was just curious.

 

[Battersea Power Station]

What just happened?

 

[Plasmid]

Evillore let's get married and I'll get the off Topic forum in the divorce.

 

[Infernodash]

I guess the thread has deteriorated into trolling. I guess it's better than whining.

 

[EviLore]

Nah, I'm not mad. As was discussed over on the Gaming Discussion equivalent of this thread, this is hardly different from how every other public forum on the Internet operates. Hell, half of the time websites steal from each other and quote forum posts without linking back to the original thread or crediting anyone. At least Kotaku asked EviLore for permission first and gave me a byline with a direct link to the actual thread. I think it's a good thing for NeoGAF discussions to get that extra exposure.

Face it. When you post something on a public forum, you're essentially making it public domain. When you click that "Submit" button, you're already publishing your writing and/or pictures for all to see freely. If a high-profile website highlights your post, gives you credit, and makes no attempt to pass it off as their own writing, then I don't see what the problem is.

We don't own the words that we post to this forum, just like we give up ownership of videos that we post to YouTube and pictures we post to Facebook. That's how the Internet has worked for a very long time.

I do understand that it gets a little iffy when Kotaku is making ad money off of clicks to my writing, but that's a gray area inherent with blogging and referencing other websites. When I made that thread, I did so with no intention of profiting from it. I think Kotaku Asks is decent idea, and it does nothing but attract positive attention toward our discussions.

The only thing that could have been handled better in this situation would be for Crecente to have asked me for permission or at least notified me using my thread. By no means did he have to, but it would have been in good practice.

If anything, blame me and not Crecente, since he came to me and asked if it was cool, and I told him it was cool. Realistically anything beyond that, such as finding the author of a post on a forum and private messaging him asking for permission, isn't really going to happen on the internet.

 

[Wallach]

This thread is now about the search update in a few days :O

I haven't seen EviLore answer why this applies to PMs though, so I would like to see him answer that. Seems strange.

There's no real choice, because it is up to the discretion of the recipient instead of the sender as to whether that information turns public.

 

[Timedog]

If you haven't noticed, NeoGAF is basically the largest general interest english language video game forum anymore that isn't owned by some huge corporation. And the rest are owned by huge corporations because giant sacks of money get offered to the owners. And I've been offered giant sacks of money too. Giant. Sacks. I keep the monetization minimalist though and I haven't sold out because... well, draw your own conclusions.

But if you guys hate me and don't want me running the site, let me know, I've always wanted my own tropical island! Just kidding, don't take that as a veiled threat to lockstep, if gaffers are anything they're vocal and fierce and independent, which makes you all a pain in the ass but not something I can be too aggravated about.

All I want is the ability to love, which the ToS threatens now. I just want to love, and make love, to everyone and everything.

-The artest formerly known as Timedog

 

[Count Dookkake]

Giant sacks!

 

[Infernodash]

There will never be sigs on GAF. Ever.

Thank god for that!

 

[Typographenia]

Dang, even WasabiKing posted in here.

Holy shit, how is this still escalating? Everything was clearly laid out by page 3.

Probably just more people reading the initial post, then posting in reaction to it rather than reading on.


lol at blame_space and shanadeus.

 

[Squirrel Killer]

Well, fuck no. I participated in the creative writing threads. That work is mine. I will remove it from NeoGaf this instant. And I will never post or link to another thing I do.

I'm not sure how scummy it is, lots of forum have similar clauses in their TOS to cover their ass so that they can function (without something like it, EvilLore would technically have to get my permission to so much as display this post.) But I think frequent posters in the various creative threads might have a point, if they ever go to sell one of their works, the buyer might demand an exclusive license, which, having granted NeoGAF a non-exclusive, irrevocable license, they wouldn't be able to. This came up with that Reddit thread that spawned a movie deal for the author.

 

[Jin34]

Gaf is like the Playstation, remove features and and make shady TOS changes.

 

[ScOULaris]

Well, fuck no. I participated in the creative writing threads. That work is mine. I will remove it from NeoGaf this instant. And I will never post or link to another thing I do.

This shit is fucking scummy, and the fact that it was just slipped in is ridiculous. Whoever decided this should be ashamed of themselves.

Don't you understand? When you post a piece of creative writing on an Internet forum that is open for everyone to view, someone can always copy/paste and pass of your work as their own. Assigning license to GAF to redistribute our posts does not mean that EviLore is gonna start selling off your writing and profiting from it. The TOS amendment doesn't even allow him to do that. The writing still belongs to you, but by "publishing" it on this site, you are giving GAF license to send it elsewhere. There is no cause for alarm here.

 

[Übermatik]

Evilore, buy the tropical island, and call it GAF-land. We'll all live in horrific filth and discomfort.

 

[crowphoenix]

I understand your reaction and I would react all the same believe me. But you should take this as a warning. Everything that you post in a public forum is fair game to whoever chooses to take it.

Believe me. I knew that risk. What I cannot abide is the unhanded way this was done. I knew someone could steal my work. And honestly, it's not work worth stealing.

But, for NeoGaf to all of a sudden decide it owns my work? Fuck no.

The mistake is my own. And it is not one I will make again.

 

[planar1280]

why are all you guys getting your panties in a bunch. do you honestly think anything you post here is not already copied and pasted and rehosted on other places? it happens anywhere and everywhere.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

If you haven't noticed, NeoGAF is basically the largest general interest english language video game forum anymore that isn't owned by some huge corporation. And the rest are owned by huge corporations because giant sacks of money get offered to the owners. And I've been offered giant sacks of money too. Giant. Sacks. I keep the monetization minimalist though and I haven't sold out because... well, draw your own conclusions.

But if you guys hate me and don't want me running the site, let me know, I've always wanted my own tropical island! Just kidding, don't take that as a veiled threat to lockstep, if gaffers are anything they're vocal and fierce and independent, which makes you all a pain in the ass but not something I can be too aggravated about.

ha I knew it!

Any guesses on how much he was offered? It had to be in the millions... man you'd have to be either crazy or a saint to turn that down because who knows how long a gaming forum will last? Or maybe the gaming industry totally crashes or the hardcore market dries up completely and traffic takes a significant dip... there's so many variables at work. But if he sold it for the (presumably) millions he was offered he could've retired and never had to worry about money again. I find this stuff fascinating...

 

[Timedog]

GAF is going to make trillions off of this guy's inventions now. I don't think that's right!

GAF branded SniperKnives in every department store in America. I can see it already.

I opened up the first page of that thread only to see a picture of baby 69'ing an adult who is carrying a stick of dynamite. WOW.

-The artest

 

[kehs]

Believe me. I knew that risk. What I cannot abide is the unhanded way this was done. I knew someone could steal my work. And honestly, it's not work worth stealing.

But, for NeoGaf to all of a sudden decide it owns my work? Fuck no.

The mistake is my own. And it is not one I will make again.

A license is not a transfer of ownership.

 

[erpg]

Believe me. I knew that risk. What I cannot abide is the unhanded way this was done. I knew someone could steal my work. And honestly, it's not work worth stealing.

But, for NeoGaf to all of a sudden decide it owns my work? Fuck no.

The mistake is my own. And it is not one I will make again.

Walk away from the computer and take a breather. Then, come back and understand that isn't what's happening.

 

[Infernodash]

ha I knew it!

Any guesses on how much he was offered? It had to be in the millions... man you'd have to be either crazy or a saint to turn that down because who knows how long a gaming forum will last? Or maybe the gaming industry totally crashes or the hardcore market dries up completely and traffic takes a significant dip... there's so many variables at work. But if he sold it for the (presumably) millions he was offered he could've retired and never had to worry about money again. I find this stuff fascinating...

Shit... I wish I had an idea I could sell for millions. Money over everything, money on mind.

 

[charlequin]

Well, fuck no. I participated in the creative writing threads. That work is mine.

And it remains yours, under the newer TOS. This is a really important distinction for people to make: this does not grant NeoGAF ownership of anything.

 

[AkuMifune]

Evilore, buy the tropical island, and call it GAF-land. We'll all live in horrific filth and discomfort.

Real life GAF would be a frightening amalgamation of Rapture and Arkham City. With ponies.

 

[unrenowned]

Since this is an addition to the ToS added after most of us registered our accounts, wouldn't that make this section invalid for us unless we accept a new ToS?

 

[Infernodash]

Gaf is like the Playstation, remove features and and make shady TOS changes.

Or it can be like Xbox, and just charge us for it.