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[Diablohead]

DAY 1

 

[HokieJoe]

I don't think they're competing with TDU. TDU will be more than a year old when PGR 4 comes out. And I don't think they're doing it just for the sake of adding more vehicles. That's insano reasoning. What evidence is there to support that idea? Adding another control scheme and physics model for the bikes is going to create more work for them, not less.

As far as having bikes, I'm all for it even though it may be another in a long line of stupid decisions they've made with this series. Let's recap:

1. The whole Kudos thing with its stupid ticking sound that drives me ****ing crazy and the ball-busting, anti-fun cone challenges.

2. Focusing on convertibles in MSR "because they're cool."

3. Centering the games around custom tracks in cities. Sorry, but as far as tracks go, most cities suck asshole. That's why so many people like Nurburgring the best out of all the tracks in MSR-PGR 3. If every city was Edinburgh, I'd take this point back. But that's not the reality.

4. Over-hyped features like location unique soundtracks and Gotham TV and photo mode. They're all worth something, but come on. It's gimmick stuff.

They make bad decisions is the point. However, the series needs a refresh, something to evolve it. Bikes might do the trick. I think the bikes will probably be more fun to drive in cities than the autos.

As much crap as I just talked on Bizarre and their games, I'd like to disclaimer myself and mention that I think this series is among the best of racing games and I would not miss PGR 4 for anything.

Wow, you don't get what makes PGR, PGR. Kudos rock and so do the cone challenges. PGR3 was a let down for me because the cone challenges were too easy compared to PGR2. Kudos give you an incentive to work through the game.

Street racing is a nice diversion from the formalized tracks of a game like FM2. I like both, but getting to race through the intricate cityscapes in PGR is what sets the game apart in many ways for me. Location specific soundtracks make sense because different cities obviously play different music. It's not a main feature, but it's a nice detail IMO.

As for bikes, maybe I'll end up enjoying them, but I can't say that I'm interested in them at all right now. The way I see it, inclusion of motorcycles takes precious development resources away from better car models, better tracks, and most importantly, MORE tracks.

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

Cant believe I missed that until it was quoted. Wow. Why do you even bother coming into 360 racing game threads and then presenting shit comments like this that make someone question whether or not you have a clue what youre talking about. Is burnout a sim too now? Is it striving for photorealism. Please quit the BS and go play the game before make comments (this also makes your FM2 comments much more clear from the other thread.)

Car racing game. The only thing that's clear is how much of an ass you are. The issue isn't how the game plays anyway; it's how they're supposed to look.

You can honestly tell me that PGR4 isn't striving for a realistic look (and as a result shouldn't be compared to GTHD graphically)?

As far as I can tell, it does. And while it's pretty damn good looking, it does fall short of that mark. Hence why a plastic cars comment is to some degree justified; the cars just don't quite look real... like they were made out of plastic or something similar. The rain effect is fantastic though.

 

[BlazeDSM]

This game looks great. I sent some pics to a buddy of mine who only plays racing games. He waited till Forza 2 came out just to buy a 360. After showing him these screens, he's actually more than happy that he bought a 360 and to top it off they're including bikes and cars together, hopefully it'll play just fine. Any release dates?

 

[Nostromo]

You are certainly entitled to your own opinion. Honestly I think this forum needs to learn to respect others a lot more. That includes Nostromo btw.

Totally agree and [mea culpa] I shouldn't have expressed my thoughts that way, I thought ppl were going to laugh about it but I was obviously wrong (and as much as I think someone is a bit too oversensitive here..in the end it really does not matter).
I also guess sometimes a bit of hypocracy is required...but geeks (as the undersigned) generally have poor social skills, you know.. :lol [/mea culpa]

 

[urk]

Totally agree and [mea culpa] I shouldn't have expressed my thoughts that way, I thought ppl were going to laugh about it but I was obviously wrong (and as much as I think someone is a bit too oversensitive here..in the end it really does not matter).
I also guess sometimes a bit of hypocracy is required...but geeks (as the undersigned) generally have poor social skills, you know :lol [/mea culpa]

Too late. They've already filed the online petition!

 

[Joates]

Car racing game. The only thing that's clear is how much of an ass you are. The issue isn't how the game plays anyway; it's how they're supposed to look.

You can honestly tell me that PGR4 isn't striving for a realistic look (and as a result shouldn't be compared to GTHD graphically)?

As far as I can tell, it does. And while it's pretty damn good looking, it does fall short of that mark. Hence why a plastic cars comment is to some degree justified; the cars just don't quite look real... like they were made out of plastic or something similar. The rain effect is fantastic though.

The thing that bothers me is people who come into threads about games and say shit that is just plain untrue to back up their ideas. PGR4 is an arcade racer, they can make the game look however they want. Personally, I think it looks great, and Im sure there is a vast majority of people and gamers in general that would agree. Your average forum goer can pick it apart to no end, but when it all boils down to it, the people who think the cars look plastic are so far outnumbered it doesnt even matter.

Theyre both racing games, yes, use whatever justification you want to in order to compare them, just dont make shit up. If PGR was a sim, cars would have brakes with godly stopping power and be able to hold controlled drifts as though it were your average sunday drive.

Also take note, neither game is out yet. And when they do come out, you can compare final build screen shots, while I actually race

 

[p3tran]

so are the cars plastic or not?

 

[Quazar]

Totally agree and [mea culpa] I shouldn't have expressed my thoughts that way, I thought ppl were going to laugh about it but I was obviously wrong (and as much as I think someone is a bit too oversensitive here..in the end it really does not matter).
I also guess sometimes a bit of hypocracy is required...but geeks (as the undersigned) generally have poor social skills, you know.. :lol [/mea culpa]

Welcome back. :lol Glad to see you will be here around E3 time.

 

[PleoMax]

We're still discussing the 1st reply?

For christ sakes.

 

[Joates]

You should know by now that the Gaf HAS NO SENSE OF HUMOR.

Maybe he shouldve posted a cat picture or picard or some other meme to go along with his original post, GAF seems to lawl hysterically at those.

Welcome back. :lol Glad to see you will be here around E3 time.

Uhh, he was banned for like 12 hours, the earth actually stood still for those 12 hours too.

 

[gamerx]

Totally agree and [mea culpa] I shouldn't have expressed my thoughts that way, I thought ppl were going to laugh about it but I was obviously wrong (and as much as I think someone is a bit too oversensitive here..in the end it really does not matter).
I also guess sometimes a bit of hypocracy is required...but geeks (as the undersigned) generally have poor social skills, you know.. :lol [/mea culpa]

Do Buy this game.

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

The thing that bothers me is people who come into threads about games and say shit that is just plain untrue to back up their ideas. PGR4 is an arcade racer, they can make the game look however they want. Personally, I think it looks great, and Im sure there is a vast majority of people and gamers in general that would agree. Your average forum goer can pick it apart to no end, but when it all boils down to it, the people who think the cars look plastic are so far outnumbered it doesnt even matter.

Theyre both racing games, yes, use whatever justification you want to in order to compare them, just dont make shit up. If PGR was a sim, cars would have brakes with godly stopping power and be able to hold controlled drifts as though it were your average sunday drive.

Also take note, neither game is out yet. And when they do come out, you can compare final build screen shots, while I actually race

Jesus. Overreacting much to a brain slip much? Yes, I know they're not the same style of game. I have 2 copies of PGR3! (1 from the wheel, 1 bought with the X360). Flying off the handle because you want to see some sort of offense where none is intended? Take some chill pills.

 

[Quazar]

Uhh, he was banned for like 12 hours, the earth actually stood still for those 12 hours too.

Uhh, I didn't count down, nor track down how long his ban was. Forgive me. :lol

 

[Joates]

Jesus. Overreacting much to a brain slip much? Yes, I know they're not the same style of game. I have 2 copies of PGR3! (1 from the wheel, 1 bought with the X360). Flying off the handle because you want to see some sort of offense where none is intended? Take some chill pills.

After your bashing of FM2s damage system its hard to look past your bias... All I ask is you use factual information in your arguments, is that too hard to ask?

Uhh, I didn't count down, nor track down how long his ban was. Forgive me. :lol

Im very forgiving

 

[CrapSandwich]

Wow, you don't get what makes PGR, PGR. Kudos rock and so do the cone challenges. PGR3 was a let down for me because the cone challenges were too easy compared to PGR2. Kudos give you an incentive to work through the game.

Kudos are pointless because at its heart, PGR is a racing game. When the object is to go as fast as possible, why bother rewarding slides? Sliding isn't integral or even helpful to 90% of the game with the only exceptions being cone challenges, style vs. speed, and the kids that whore up their kudos totals online. Not only that, but you also get kudos for stuff like passing and taking a good line. What's the point? Of course you're supposed to pass. Of course you want to take a good line. Is anyone really thinking of not apexing a turn properly, but change their minds so they can get some Kudos? Does anyone draft only to get Kudos? It's an insane system with an annoying ticking sound. Even in cone challenges where you have to instigate slides in the middle of a straight to keep your combo going, it doesn't make sense. Watch a replay of yourself cutting a little slide every few seconds to keep that combo ticking up. It doesn't look cool. It's not stylish. It looks like whoever's driving is on crack.

Street racing is a nice diversion from the formalized tracks of a game like FM2. I like both, but getting to race through the intricate cityscapes in PGR is what sets the game apart in many ways for me.

I understand the concept and that this is, in large part, what sets PGR apart from everything else. I think the idea even sounds pretty great. But the circuits still need to be judged objectively and there aren't enough good or great tracks in the series. And there are way too many bad, boring, or pointless ones. I think it's a bad idea to have cities and just cities. The inclusion of Nurburgring broke this tradition and it was a huge improvement for the game. They should go further in that direction. And I don't think it needs to be race tracks. It just needs to be great.

 

[Karma Kramer]

Totally agree and [mea culpa] I shouldn't have expressed my thoughts that way, I thought ppl were going to laugh about it but I was obviously wrong (and as much as I think someone is a bit too oversensitive here..in the end it really does not matter).
I also guess sometimes a bit of hypocracy is required...but geeks (as the undersigned) generally have poor social skills, you know.. :lol [/mea culpa]

Its really hard to gauge what is "funny and okay" and what is "trolling and disrespectful" sometimes on GAF. The problem though with the joke "bad art confirmed" or "plastic cars confirmed," is it essentially opens up the gateway to hell and gives all the fanboys on both sides of the spectrum reasons to go at each others throats. Thats why mods and members here discourage people from saying stuff like that because it just derails the topic.

It was an honest mistake though and unfortunately on GAF you have got to watch what you say a little bit more and realize that your actions and comments could negatively effect the community. Trust me, you have no idea how many times I have hit the button "post reply," and then wrote some response only to erase it and press the "back" button.

 

[raYne]

Its really hard to gauge what is "funny and okay" and what is "trolling and disrespectful" sometimes on GAF.

The SDF avatar that he was using up until this apology post didn't exactly help matters either. I'm sure that's a big part of the reason the whole thing escalated to the degree it did.

Anyway, mistakes were made. GAF'll get over it (hopefully sometime soon).

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

After your bashing of FM2s damage system its hard to look past your bias... All I ask is you use factual information in your arguments, is that too hard to ask?

Im very forgiving

Yeah no.

And what facts did I get wrong in FM2? That I could still play on just fine (albeit not perfectly) after bumping at speeds (30-40MPH) that would write off most real cars, in FM2? I played the game before I made those posts. I think I know a little more about been factually correct than yourself.

 

[SonofdonCD]

Kudos are pointless because at its heart, PGR is a racing game. When the object is to go as fast as possible, why bother rewarding slides? Sliding isn't integral or even helpful to 90% of the game with the only exceptions being cone challenges, style vs. speed, and the kids that whore up their kudos totals online. Not only that, but you also get kudos for stuff like passing and taking a good line. What's the point? Of course you're supposed to pass. Of course you want to take a good line. Is anyone really thinking of not apexing a turn properly, but change their minds so they can get some Kudos? Does anyone draft only to get Kudos? It's an insane system with an annoying ticking sound. Even in cone challenges where you have to instigate slides in the middle of a straight to keep your combo going, it doesn't make sense. Watch a replay of yourself cutting a little slide every few seconds to keep that combo ticking up. It doesn't look cool. It's not stylish. It looks like whoever's driving is on crack.

The kudos are in place to encourage good driving skills, as well as rewarding drivers who can show off while winning races at the same time. Not everyone is an expert racing game player, so the kudos for passing and good lines and such are things that can help those people get acclimated with the game and the genre in general. Also, the object isn't to go as fast as possible. The object is to win. The kudos just adds another layer on top; the additional goal of being a flashy winner, so to speak.

Do you not like the achievement system on Xbox live? Cause the way you're complaining about the Kudos system lines up with that. Kudos pulls the focus of how you should drive by rewarding you when you drive correctly. It makes you play the game in a way you might not without it, much in the same way as the Achievement system does for 360 games in general.

I understand the concept and that this is, in large part, what sets PGR apart from everything else. I think the idea even sounds pretty great. But the circuits still need to be judged objectively and there aren't enough good or great tracks in the series. And there are way too many bad, boring, or pointless ones. I think it's a bad idea to have cities and just cities. The inclusion of Nurburgring broke this tradition and it was a huge improvement for the game. They should go further in that direction. And I don't think it needs to be race tracks. It just needs to be great.

To be honest, the Nurburgring, while a great race track, wasn't the most memorable track in PGR3 for me. It was boring to look at and felt out of place in the series. I won't begrudge anyone for liking it, though. Then again, I'm not a die-hard racing fan like that.

They are giving us a fantasy track, though, so they already seem to be giving you what you want. But I still do want them to keep putting real cities in their games. Otherwise, they're no different than any other racing games.

 

[p3tran]

Kudos are pointless because at its heart, PGR is a racing game. When the object is to go as fast as possible, why bother rewarding slides?

looking forward to your "LTTP: KUDOS" thread.

its about developing skill with the game. and its satisfactory when you achieve it.
have a look at this guy who accumulates 67.000 kudos in a race in one go:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncdghEqkwoc

 

[starfox]

It's great to see a little terminology like "Kudos" becoming as reconizable as acheivements for points/glory/"acheivment".

Kudos 2 Bizarre for improving Grammar diversity.:lol

 

[HokieJoe]

Kudos are pointless because at its heart, PGR is a racing game. When the object is to go as fast as possible, why bother rewarding slides? Sliding isn't integral or even helpful to 90% of the game with the only exceptions being cone challenges, style vs. speed, and the kids that whore up their kudos totals online. Not only that, but you also get kudos for stuff like passing and taking a good line. What's the point? Of course you're supposed to pass. Of course you want to take a good line. Is anyone really thinking of not apexing a turn properly, but change their minds so they can get some Kudos? Does anyone draft only to get Kudos? It's an insane system with an annoying ticking sound. Even in cone challenges where you have to instigate slides in the middle of a straight to keep your combo going, it doesn't make sense. Watch a replay of yourself cutting a little slide every few seconds to keep that combo ticking up. It doesn't look cool. It's not stylish. It looks like whoever's driving is on crack.

Racing isn't the only object of PGR though. The game can certainly be played that way, but kudos introduces a new objective. Let’s take the cone challenges for instance. A straight up timed run through them would be far too simple IMO. The kudos variable helps to ratchet up the tension considerably. Not only did you have to worry about the stopwatch, you also had to worry about scoring kudos.

What’s more, kudos scoring teaches you how to control your car better. It took me a while to understand how to manage my car in a controlled slide, but it paid off between long gates during some of the cone challenges. Oddly enough, the cone challenges also helped me understand how to apex a turn properly carrying the most speed. Enter too fast, and you lose exit speed or possibly slam the wall. Enter to slow and you lose the combo- it’s a fine line. All in all, my driving skills improved considerably after learning how to score kudos in the cone challenges.

</shrug>

To each his own I guess.

 

[MaX_PL]

i dunno if this has been talked about, but shane on 1upyours two weeks ago, and now ******* with their handson both claim a september release for the game. ebgames also has the release as september.

http://www.*******.com/2007/07/09/*******-hands-on-pgr4-xbox-360/

can we expect PGR4 in September, or is the November release much more likely?

 

[Blimblim]

September, believe

 

[rostocker]

wtf? September? Now I have to decide between Halo 3 and PGR4...

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Wow. September.

I can't believe how many full featured racers have already been released on this console. Glad I got that wheel.

(Although the inclusion of motorcycles is going to make switching between it and the controller a pain.)

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

September? ROCK THE **** ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111

 

[Mmmkay]

Wow, September is a lot earlier than I expected.

 

[proposition]

so are the cars plastic or not?

I already said, the TVRs are.

 

[vspectra06]

IGN claims September in their latest hands-on as well.

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

Besides the rain droplets i dont think this look amazing at all

it looks good but, nothing above and beyond, still not doing it better than GTHD or Forza 2

 

[Blimblim]

it looks good but, nothing above and beyond, still not doing it better than GTHD

I guess GTHD certainly does the lighting better.

or Forza 2

But now you lost me.

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

Forza got better models imo

 

[KingJ2002]

whoa... september... i'd assume november... but with all these high profile september releases... what the hell does microsoft have planned before black friday???

 

[vspectra06]

Forza got better models imo

Some of the Forza models are inaccurate imo.

 

[jet1911]

Already posted?

IGN hands-on

 

[ShOcKwAvE]

The weather effects are enough for me. The rest is candy!

 

[clav]

Besides the rain droplets i dont think this look amazing at all

it looks good but, nothing above and beyond, still not doing it better than GTHD or Forza 2

GTHD? No way.

Played GTHD at my friend's house: 1080p via HDMI. Sony TV.

Did not look impressive at all. We both said that the people models looked better in comparison to Forza 2.

 

[raYne]

Some of the Forza models are inaccurate imo.

Definitely. They even managed to screw up and swap around some of the bodykit names.

Already posted?

I haven't seen it.

Most of those Kudos, however, require some cajones to pull off in a race against seven other people (who could all be racing you in cars). It's one thing to pull a wheelie for 20 yards in one of the motorcycle-specific challenges, but quite another thing to do one in the heat of a race. The truly daring will take risks and pull wheelies on short straightaways, before chaining into a drift around a corner. Daredevils will hold A to add a modifier to their stunts. Sure, it adds additional risk, but it will help you thrill your fans (and infuriate your competition).

Awesome.

And the Rest...
While PGR 4 plays very similar to its predecessor, there have been a few changes. The most notable is some tweaking to the Kudos system. You will no longer be able to earn quick drift Kudos by quickly swerving on a straightaway. All powerslides will need to be genuine this time around. And there's been an adjustment to Kudos timing so that "Kudos can be truly chained."

Well, that about wraps it up for ridiculous cone challenge scores. :lol

As expected, since the series is on the arcadey side of things, while racing in rain/snow you do slide around more (kudos!), but it doesn't really hinder the gameplay.

They have online teams/clubs now as well. Excellent.

 

[PjotrStroganov]

Looks awesome. Motion blur in photomode still looks grainy though.

 

[MickeyKnox]

Hot, hot, fire.

 

[BrokenSymmetry]

From IGN's hands-on:

That bank account, by the way, takes only Kudos points. Everything in PGR 4 is unlocked by Kudos. You'll unlock new cars, bikes, and garages with the Kudos earned in races

Excellent. That's the way PGR should be: in PGR3 Kudos had become almost meaningless.

 

[GreggTheGrimReaper]

mamma mia! bella mv agusta <3

 

[Kabuki Waq]

**** all these photo mode screens for these games. Show us gameplay photomode is such a scam.

 

[GashPrex]

I can ****ing wait to drive those bikes in PGR4, looks so damn fun.

we all know it will look great, not sure why people are worried about photomode- PGR has always looked fantastic

 

[rollingstart]

**** all these photo mode screens for these games. Show us gameplay photomode is such a scam.

hey, this is a step up compared to how screen shots are normally altered, this is atleast still done in the game.

 

[Bildi]

Thanks! I think I let my passion of cars go too far sometimes, expecting too much... I can't wait until GT5 comes out so I can find something that really annoys me on there so the other camp can tell me to gtfo, :lol

The rain is love/hate I guess... It's just not for me, but, doesn't mean everyone else should hate it... Just like the shaders/lighting/over-all appearance in the cars... I'm not too keen on it, and the cars look a lil, arcadey in most of the racers we've seen this gen (outside DiRT)...

And no... Supra's were never crap performance wise... Mark III's were great, and MKIV's are incredible cars that more than hold their own today despite being 14years old... The 2JZ-GTE is one of the most grossly overbuilt motors for it's time, and today... and with a little work, are absolute MONSTERS on the straights, AND in the twists...

I agree the rain in a couple of shots looks a little odd. But yeah, since I race in-car cam or bonnet cam I probably won't be seeing it a whole lot. And i think in motion it could look really nice.

Regarding the Supras, my post was maybe not clear. I was saying performance-wise Supras are great, it's just the looks that has taken a few years to grow on me. 2JZ's are an awesome engine and so tough that they are high on my list of candidates if I ever build up another car. Dunno if I could do a Supra though - I admit I still find them to be not the prettiest car in some ways. :lol

 

[FightyF]

Just when I thought you couldn't possibly become more weird... now you actually wish for a developer who has contributed a lot of information and answered a lot of questions on this forum fired from a development studio because the dude posted something on NeoGAF that you don't agree with? That's kinda sad.

I don't think he should be fired. Where did I ever say that? I'm saying that rather than wanting the whole HS team to suffer, it would make more sense to want one person to suffer. And then I related it to a specific scenario where developers who do post on blogs and forums have been fired in the past.

Case in point:
http://www.davis.ca/en/blog/Video-Game-Law/2006/02/03/Sony-Employee-Fired-For-Criticizing-PS3

you are making this into a big deal when it really isn't. he wasn't being an ass, he was defending his opinion, which he reserves every right to express. it's sad that you think employees shouldn't be able to voice their honest opinion. their opinions often have more value than the typical forum dweller and it's a real shame that some people aren't mature enough to handle it.

The thing is, he didn't adequately defend his opinion. That's the issue here. It doesn't matter if he's qualified, the fact that he didn't spoke volumes.

And YOU were the one who put words into my mouth, I never said that I think he should be fired.

**** all these photo mode screens for these games. Show us gameplay photomode is such a scam.

AFAIR in Photomode they rendered the pics at a higher res and also bettered the texture filtering.

Look at the texture filtering in this pic:

Obviously, the pic isn't taken from a view that is used in-game, but the point is that the quality of the images may very well be representative of the visuals during gameplay.

 

[vspectra06]

New screens.

http://www.the-reviewer.co.uk/index.php?folder=screenshots/data/xbox360/pgr4&page=index