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[Siege.exe]

Reasonable post, but there are just so many things going for Primarina right now. I totally forgot to mention its higher than average base stat total, which is something that separates it from your typical low BST Fairy. It's just... if you flip my argument on its head and try to argue for ways that Primarina might be mediocre instead of good, it would be incredibly difficult to do so. Ultimately, I just don't think agree with the idea that we know too little to make statements like "damn, this Pokemon is gonna rock!" invalid. Typing, ability, vague idea of what its stats might be and empirical data is enough to at least get a rough idea of how good it will be, I feel. This is the crux of my argument. It's less "Fairy = instant top tier" and more "Primarina has a couple of amazing things going for it, including that stellar Fairy/Water and the stats and moves to make use out of it"



Outclassed in standard OU, yes. Outclassed in low tiers like RU and UU? Absolutely not. Not being OU doesn't instantly render a Pokemon bad, and both of those Pokemon have niches in their respective tiers. But we're getting off topic. Now imagine either of those Pokemon with a Fairy subtyping, and I guarantee to you they'd be OU. That's how brain dead of a typing it is.



My apologies, but I don't think the amount of time you've played correlates to having absolute knowledge on the game. You seem pretty knowledgeable in retrospect, so it was definitely my bad to condescend, but I absolutely despise the "I've been playing this game for years, listen to me!" phrase.

There's no problem with seeing promise. Despite not liking the vile creature, I'm not outright against it being good. I've just been wrong too many times judging things competitively before all of the info was out to think hyping things up without seeing stats, moves, and abilities first is a good idea.

Eh, maybe that's me being a weirdo who brings things into higher tiers than they belong. Obviously everything can be used effectively in its own tier, but if I were going to choose non-OU Water types to add to an OU team, those two wouldn't be making the cut.

It's all good, just one of those things that started irking me recently. I'd just like to think that I know enough something that I've been heavily invested in for a long time to not have an idea about it completely dismissed. You clearly didn't intend to do so, it's something I've been putting up with a lot as of late so I get a bit touchy about it.

Spoiler

Don't be a player-coach for any sport, it's a bad time.

Oh? Interesting!
How does this make you feel?

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Does it bother anyone else that he's named Blue and is dressed in Green?

I know his Japanese name is Green, but that is going to bother me a lot

 

[UberTag]

So for the three final evos...

Litten.. Fire dark
Rowlett.. Grass ghost
Popplio.. Fairy water

What are each weak against?

I know alot of people going with litten and Rowlett.. But I'm betting that Popplio is gonna be bulky af and good for end game

Incineroar is weak against water, fighting, ground and rock.
He'll resist fire, grass, ice, ghost, dark and steel.
He's immune to psychic.

Decidueye is weak against fire, ice, flying, ghost and dark.
He'll resist water, electric, grass and ground.
He's immune to normal and fighting.

Primarina is weak against electric, grass and poison.
She'll resist fire, water, ice, fighting, bug and dark.
She's immune to dragon.

 

[.JayZii]

Pokemon threads get so weird and mean spirited, lol.

I think we can all agree that Ash's female friend is going to get a Poplio that evolves into and stays a Brionne for the rest of the show. And that Primarina will take the place of Gardevoir as the pokemon that sneaks past safe image searches and give unsuspecting children an unexpected anatomy lesson.

 

[Fulminator]

Incineroar is weak against water, fighting, ground and rock.
He'll resist fire, grass, ice, ghost, dark and steel.
He's immune to psychic.

Decidueye is weak against fire, ice, flying, ghost and dark.
He'll resist water, electric, grass and ground.
He's immune to normal and fighting.

Primarina is weak against electric, grass and poison.
She'll resist fire, water, ice, fighting, bug and dark.
She's immune to dragon.

wow they did a pretty good job picking typings tbh

 

[PSqueak]

Pokemon threads get so weird and mean spirited, lol.

I think we can all agree that Ash's female friend is going to get a Poplio that evolves into and stays a Brionne for the rest of the show. And that Primarina will take the place of Gardevoir as the pokemon that sneaks past safe image searches and give unsuspecting children an unexpected anatomy lesson.

Sounds like you missed the Tsareena reveal.

 

[Lil'DigiOp]

wow they did a pretty good job picking typings tbh

Fantastic job even... Those are all well rounded typings that will be able to stand up to most Pokemon in the meta. God, this truly is a return to form of starters since Gen 3.

Gen 4 was cool but Torterra ruins the average. We won't talk about Gen 5... and Greninja was fantastic in Gen 6 but the rest?.... Lol

 

[Falchion]

Looking forward to the fire / dark combination because I've never really used any dark types in my lineups.

 

[OrionX]

Spoiler

And now to start the usual tradition of ignoring the middle stage starters.

lol! Perfect.

 

[Fulminator]

Fantastic job even... Those are all well rounded typings that will be able to stand up to most Pokemon in the meta. God, this truly is a return to form of starters since Gen 3.

Gen 4 was cool but Torterra ruins the average. We won't talk about Gen 5... and Greninja was fantastic in Gen 6 but the rest?.... Lol

what's wrong with torterra?

 

[pariah164]

Spoiler

And now to start the usual tradition of ignoring the middle stage starters.

I love it.

Also, where's my fanart of Farfetch'd and Decidueye teaming up? Brothers from different mothers.

Spoiler

How the fuck do I even say that final evo name though, seriously.

 

[Anura]

Incineroar is weak against water, fighting, ground and rock.
He'll resist fire, grass, ice, ghost, dark and steel.
He's immune to psychic.

Decidueye is weak against fire, ice, flying, ghost and dark.
He'll resist water, electric, grass and ground.
He's immune to normal and fighting.

Primarina is weak against electric, grass and poison.
She'll resist fire, water, ice, fighting, bug and dark.
She's immune to dragon.

Does ghost resist poison?

 

[Sou Da]

I love it.

Also, where's my fanart of Farfetch'd and Decidueye teaming up? Brothers from different mothers.

Spoiler

How the fuck do I even say that final evo name though, seriously.

Dee Si joo eye

 

[MegaManTrigger]

Fantastic job even... Those are all well rounded typings that will be able to stand up to most Pokemon in the meta. God, this truly is a return to form of starters since Gen 3.

Gen 4 was cool but Torterra ruins the average. We won't talk about Gen 5... and Greninja was fantastic in Gen 6 but the rest?.... Lol

To be fair, you can't really say that they'll be able to stand up to most Pokemon in the meta when we still need more information like movepool, and stat distribution.

Torterra was amazing. Maybe not competitively, but Wood Hammer and EQ rekt shit up. And Gen VI's starters were pretty good...except for Trashfox. Chesnaught's Spiky Shield is pretty useful.

 

[Shadow Broker]

Does ghost resist poison?

Yes, so poison will hit him nuetral.

 

[PhazonBlazer]

Primarina's cry is so good

 

[Siege.exe]

Does ghost resist poison?

It does

 

[Boss Doggie]

They should be pushing Rockruff instead!

Fantastic job even... Those are all well rounded typings that will be able to stand up to most Pokemon in the meta. God, this truly is a return to form of starters since Gen 3.

Gen 4 was cool but Torterra ruins the average. We won't talk about Gen 5... and Greninja was fantastic in Gen 6 but the rest?.... Lol

Torterra is much better than archer owl by a large margin, arguably the best Grass starter design and I'm a huge Chesnaught fan.

 

[PK Gaming]

There's no problem with seeing promise. Despite not liking the vile creature, I'm not outright against it being good. I've just been wrong too many times judging things competitively before all of the info was out to think hyping things up without seeing stats, moves, and abilities first is a good idea.

Eh, maybe that's me being a weirdo who brings things into higher tiers than they belong. Obviously everything can be used effectively in its own tier, but if I were going to choose non-OU Water types to add to an OU team, those two wouldn't be making the cut.

It's all good, just one of those things that started irking me recently. I'd just like to think that I know enough something that I've been heavily invested in for a long time to not have an idea about it completely dismissed. You clearly didn't intend to do so, it's something I've been putting up with a lot as of late so I get a bit touchy about it.

Spoiler

Don't be a player-coach for any sport, it's a bad time.

Man, i'm glad we were able to resolve this dispute amicably.

And don't worry, we can trash on the Primarina menace together. I'll do everything in my power to undermine it.

FOR JUSTICE!

 

[Korosenai]

I got you:
de·cid·u·ous
diˈsijo͞oəs/Submit
adjective
(of a tree or shrub) shedding its leaves annually.
informal
(of a tree or shrub) broadleaved.
denoting the milk teeth of a mammal, which are shed after a time.

So, deciduous + eye, which of course, refers to the whole sniper/archer bit.

Thanks! Interesting...

 

[tenderbrew]

Ok so now starting to look and really wanting to personal assess where my head is at with all 3 levels of evolutions now that we have them. People are looking right past stage 2, but it counts at some level. Going purely on aesthetics here...

Rowlett - Looks great, owl with bowtie, tons of character. 9/10
Dartrix - Bad leaf combover, WTF is going on here. Whatever, still kinda silly and endearing. 7/10
Decidueye - The dark gritty reboot that nobody asked for. 2/10

Litten - Cute cat with some really neat coloring. 8/10
Torracat - A pretty small step, not MUCH different & I think Litten looks better. 6/10
Incineroar - Wrestling heel persona, great in-game models, fiery championship belt to really feed the goof, excellent work. 9/10

Popplio - Circus seal, incredibly endearing with silly animations. 9/10
Brionne - Very different look, more feminine and with an added bubble motif. Very into it. 9/10
Primarina - Siren goddess of the sea. Holey moley, one of the best designs GameFreak ever has done. Doesn't let down like Samurott let down the EXCELLENT Oshawott start. Amazing animations. 10/10


So if we use the totally objective mathematical approach, it looks like the Popplio line objectively comes out on top objectively.

 

[Anura]

It does

Yes, so poison will hit him nuetral.

Thanks, never knew that. I guess it makes total sense though.

 

[Nilaul]

Well these trailers spoil every single detail about the game... so no watching for me.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Well those trailers just literally spoil everything about the game... so no watching for me.

We still know nothing about the story of the game.

 

[Busaiku]

Spoiler

And now to start the usual tradition of ignoring the middle stage starters.

This is incredible.

 

[OmegaSmash]

People are fast on these edits.

 

[Sou Da]

People are fast on these edits.

Blue just looks like a mom now.

 

[trixx]

I've chose water starter in every gen so far with exception of bulbasaur(sort of). Was going to deviate and choose the owl but goddamn Primerina is fabulous even though it has trash move.

Reminds me a lot of milotic though =/. welp lets try building the team now. Gonna try to use underused pokemon

I NEED THE SAND CASTLE POKEMON

Only problem is I'm getting moon and I want midday evolution of that dog pokemon, oh well

 

[tenderbrew]

I've chose water starter in every gen so far with exception of bulbasaur(sort of). Was going to deviate and choose the owl but goddamn Primerina is fabulous even though it has trash move.

Reminds me a lot of milotic though =/. welp lets try building the team now. Gonna try to use underused pokemon

I NEED THE SAND CASTLE POKEMON

Only problem is I'm getting moon and I want midday evolution of that dog pokemon, oh well

I like the way you think. That sand castle Pokemon is dope.

 

[Fandangox]

Blue just looks like a mom now.

Funny that you say that.

 

[Kouichi]

I am in love with Rowlet's final evolution. A Grass/Ghost Archer Owl my god it's perfect. I didn't think I'd find a pokemon I'd like more than Greninja so quickly.

 

[PhazonBlazer]

People are fast on these edits.

Good grief

 

[Antiwhippy]

Spoiler

And now to start the usual tradition of ignoring the middle stage starters.

Fantastic.

 

[Crimson_Echidna]

 

[CazTGG]

And His Nickname Is...

 

[papertoonz]

the complete trio

 

[Boss Doggie]

someone post the "Kakyoin asks Jotaro about their baby" but replace it with Red and Blue

 

[Lil'DigiOp]

And His Nickname Is...

Im fucking crying!

*when Raichu gets smacked on beat* 😂

 

[ScraftyDevil]

There is merit to the assertion that the addition of a Fairy typing alone is enough to greatly improve a Pokemon. Judging solely by Smogon's competitive tiers:

1. Gardevoir went from NU to UU after becoming part Fairy-type (with Mega Gardevoir rising to the top of OU thanks to Pixielate Hyper Voice)
   
2. Clefable went from RU to OU after becoming Fairy-type (and having its Special Attack buffed by ten points)
   
3. Azumarill went from UU to OU after becoming part Fairy-type
   
4. Granbull went from NU to RU after becoming Fairy-type
   
5. Togekiss went from UU to OU/BL after becoming part Fairy-type
   
6. Whimsicott went from RU to UU after becoming part Fairy-type

It's important not to understate the value of additional STAB moves, resistances and an immunity in competitive battling. I don't think it's a stretch at all to say certain Pokemon would benefit greatly solely from being given the Fairy subtyping, especially in a meta that was once (and still is, to some degree) dominated by Dragon-types.

 

[Boss Doggie]

well this is the lamest name I could think of

Incenaroar

 

[Admiral Woofington]

they should have called the cat The Burninator

 

[Siege.exe]

well this is the lamest name I could think of

Incenaroar

I thought of that myself a couple of hours ago. Is it lame? Sure. Is the joke worth it? Damn straight it is.

 

[Boss Doggie]

The French name is always better btw. Félinferno is so perfect.

 

[ionitron]

Man, my boyfriend fixed Persian.

=/ I don't know how they messed that up lol, they could could have done anything but what we actually received, but whatever at this point -shrugs-

 

[Antiwhippy]

What do you have against Garfield?

 

[Admiral Woofington]

Give me my fucking enchiladas

 

[Siege.exe]

There is merit to the assertion that the addition of a Fairy typing alone is enough to greatly improve a Pokemon. Judging solely by Smogon's competitive tiers:

1. Gardevoir went from NU to UU after becoming part Fairy-type (with Mega Gardevoir rising to the top of OU thanks to Pixielate Hyper Voice)
   
2. Clefable went from RU to OU after becoming Fairy-type (and having its Special Attack buffed by ten points)
   
3. Azumarill went from UU to OU after becoming part Fairy-type
   
4. Granbull went from NU to RU after becoming Fairy-type
   
5. Togekiss went from UU to OU/BL after becoming part Fairy-type
   
6. Whimsicott went from RU to UU after becoming part Fairy-type

It's important not to understate the value of additional STAB moves, resistances and an immunity in competitive battling. I don't think it's a stretch at all to say certain Pokemon would benefit greatly solely from being given the Fairy subtyping, especially in a meta that was once (and still is, to some degree) dominated by Dragon-types.

Audino fell from NU to PU after getting a Fairy type Mega evolution (which replaced it in NU)
Mawile fell from NU to PU after becoming Fairy (which is actually kind of weird considering its Mega got placed in Ubers)
Wigglytuff fell from NU to PU after becoming Fairy
Mr. Mime fell from NU to PU after becoming Fairy
The only newly introduced Fairy type that managed to make it up to UU was Florges, with the exception of Xerneas, who is a cover legendary, and Mega Diancie, who is the Mega Evolution of an Event Legendary. Meanwhile, regular Diancie is wallowing in RU with base 150 defensive stats and base 100 offensive stats.

Fairy is a good typing, I'm not arguing against that. It's not so good, however, that anything that has the typing can work its way out of lower tiers. I maintain that we should wait and see what else Pooparina is capable of before we declare it to be a highly competitive Pokemon.

 

[Crimson_Echidna]

I love these starters lol

 

[Strimei]

Saw this on twitter.

Source

Made me laugh.

 

[Lil'DigiOp]

what's wrong with torterra?

To be fair, you can't really say that they'll be able to stand up to most Pokemon in the meta when we still need more information like movepool, and stat distribution.

Torterra was amazing. Maybe not competitively, but Wood Hammer and EQ rekt shit up. And Gen VI's starters were pretty good...except for Trashfox. Chesnaught's Spiky Shield is pretty useful.

They should be pushing Rockruff instead!



Torterra is much better than archer owl by a large margin, arguably the best Grass starter design and I'm a huge Chesnaught fan.

Okay okayyy I was talking a little shit... Ive barely used Torterra but it doesn't really get a lot of love overall. Its up there with the most underused starter out there. Really easy to pass over it just because its barely seen.

Im speaking more about typing, I understand that we don't know the meat and potatoes yet but just the typing alone is super exciting and diverse.


small edit: I wanna give a small shoutout to Boss Doggie for being a true Litten squad member. Real recognize Heel Lol