Support NeoGAF

[soundwave05]

I don't think you can rate a movie just based off internet leaks and plot chatter.

We heard a lot of this same crap before AOTC came out (more action! more serious! more Yoda!), but these things a good movie do not make.

You can't just skip over good storytelling, good acting, and good dialouge.

Even the Matrix sequels sounded great on paper. Ooooooh a Matrix-styled car chase and Neo fights a hundred Agent Smiths! And Monica Bellucci! Neo meets the Architect! etc. etc. etc.

All that stuff sounded great on paper. Until you actually watched the movies and realized they were a trainwreck (much like Attack of the Clones).

 

[ManaByte]

Even the Matrix sequels sounded great on paper. Ooooooh a Matrix-styled car chase and Neo fights a hundred Agent Smiths! And Monica Bellucci! Neo meets the Architect! etc. etc. etc.

That's a whole other topic, but both Matrix sequels sucked big time.

 

[soundwave05]

That's a whole other topic, but both Matrix sequels sucked big time.

Which is exactly my point. I'm not awarding Revenge of the Sith crap (certainly not placing it above Empire Strikes Back) until it actually delivers the goods as a movie, not based on individual set pieces and moments we've heard about.

So what if its "dark"? Empire Strikes Back isn't as dark as people think, its more "mysterious" IMO, but that in itself doesn't make it a good movie.

Its a good movie because its a great combination of terrific storytelling, directing, acting, comedy, romance, and action. It works on all those levels with a strong emotional core.

The Matrix sequels sounded like a lot of fun on paper and based on internet pre-buzz too.

 

[Escape Goat]

So what if its "dark"? Empire Strikes Back isn't as dark as people think, its more "mysterious" IMO, but that in itself doesn't make it a good movie.

Isn't dark? Vader dropped the bomb on Luke. Rebellion is scattered. Han is captured. Luke barely escapes with his life after receiving a major ass whooping. Empire is in total control. I'd say its pretty dark.

 

[IAmtheFMan]

We heard a lot of this same crap before AOTC came out (more action! more serious! more Yoda!), but these things a good movie do not make.

The thing is though, with both TPM and AOTC, we heard bad shit coming out too. TPM: Jake "Mannequin Skywalker" Lloyd, and Jar-Jar, AOTC: An atrocious love story (yes, this was leaked very early.)

There has been very little negativity compared to the respective amount of info we had on Clones and Menace at this time, and most of the praise is not necessarily on the "bigger and badder" aspect of the action sequences. Yeah, there's a big space battle, yeah there's a huge saber duel, but apparently the drama, the tone, the emotion and the dialogue (yes the dialogue) are what's driving this movie. Lucas did a dialogue-wash, Lucas hired an acting coach, the same dude who did Virgin Suicides to help out his actors. The score, from the description we get is absolutely magnificent, right up there with Empire's.

Does this mean that it's a home run? Of course not. But I've enjoyed every Star Wars movie, (some moreso than others) and I'll go into this one with a "half-full" mentality as well.

 

[ManaByte]

The thing is though, with both TPM and AOTC, we heard bad shit coming out too. TPM: Jake "Mannequin Skywalker" Lloyd, and Jar-Jar, AOTC: An atrocious love story (yes, this was leaked very early.)

There has been very little negativity compared to the respective amount of info we had on Clones and Menace at this time, and most of the praise is not necessarily on the "bigger and badder" aspect of the action sequences. Yeah, there's a big space battle, yeah there's a huge saber duel, but apparently the drama, the tone, the emotion and the dialogue (yes the dialogue) are what's driving this movie. Lucas did a dialogue-wash, Lucas hired an acting coach, the same dude who did Virgin Suicides to help out his actors. The score, from the description we get is absolutely magnificent, right up there with Empire's.

Does this mean that it's a home run? Of course not. But I've enjoyed every Star Wars movie, (some moreso than others) and I'll go into this one with a "half-full" mentality as well.

Yeah, the only bad thing that leaked out was a couple cheesy lines but that was way before the reshoots and pick ups.

 

[soundwave05]

Isn't dark? Vader dropped the bomb on Luke. Rebellion is scattered. Han is captured. Luke barely escapes with his life after receiving a major ass whooping. Empire is in total control. I'd say its pretty dark.

I don't think its dark in the sense that fanboys equate things to today (like "OMG, Vader rapes teh princess and Luke has to get revenge! Awesome! :lol ).

But even so, I don't think its neccessarily this darker/mysterious tone in its own that makes ESB work so well. Listen to the audio commentary on the ESB disc and you'll hear Kershner talk again and again about making sure all of the characters had emotion, even R2-D2 and Chewbacca.

Its just a good movie period, not a "hey this isn't bad for a fantasy or science fiction story" ... just a good story, well told, well acted. Its a shame Kershner didn't come back for Return of the Jedi. Marquand was just in way over his head there.

Before AOTC we did hear a lot of stuff from the actors and various other people like "this is getting back to the Star Wars everyone loves!" etc. etc. etc. To me it was even worse than Episode I.

 

[ManaByte]

Its just a good movie period, not a "hey this isn't bad for a fantasy or science fiction story" ... just a good story, well told, well acted. Its a shame Kershner didn't come back for Return of the Jedi.

His assitant director did. Jedi was really directed by Kershner's AD and Lucas because Marquand was hated by the cast and wasn't interested in doing the job once he got on set.

 

[soundwave05]

His assitant director did. Jedi was really directed by Kershner's AD and Lucas because Marquand was hated by the cast and wasn't interested in doing the job once he got on set.

Yeah I know that. But a director's AD is a totally different can of worms from the actual direction himself, lol. Like I said its too bad they didn't bring Kershner back for ROTJ.

Its also a shame IMO that Spielberg or someone else was not given the directing duties for one or more of these prequels.

Lucas is a great conceptualist, but a poor director/writer, he admits this and even his friends like Francis Ford Coppola say that. And so here we are again with Episode III -- great concept, but will the execution be any better? Asking Lucas to focus on emotion/acting/dialouge may be a bit like acting Schwarzenneger to work on his accent; at this point its just a bit pointless.

 

[ManaByte]

Its also a shame IMO that Spielberg or someone else was not given the directing duties for one or more of these prequels.

That couldn't have happened because of the Director's Guild. That's why Spielberg couldn't direct Jedi when he was Lucas' first choice for it.

 

[btrboyev]

Spielberg expressed his interest in doing one of the prequels, but lucas turned him down.

 

[ManaByte]

Spielberg expressed his interest in doing one of the prequels, but lucas turned him down.

No, Spielberg wanted to do one and Lucas would've let him, but the Director's Guild would've fined Spielberg and even tried to block the release of the movie. They fined Kershner and Lucas after Empire Strikes Back was released due to the lack of any opening credits, and that even caused the then head of 20th Century Fox to get forced out by shareholders. After that Lucas quit the Director's Guild and with Jedi found a director who wasn't part of it since he couldn't have Spielberg direct it.

If the Director's Guild wasn't so anal about having opening credits for a movie, Spielberg would've been able to direct it. Spielberg was one of the few outside people allowed on the Episode I set early on, and Lucas even put E.T. in Episode I since Spielberg put Yoda in E.T.

 

[AniHawk]

The last half of Sith makes Empire look like The Care Bears Movie in comparison.

I know you're totally batshit insane, but I hope you're right on this.

 

[shantyman]

Sifo Dyas:

Spoiler

He was a confidante of Dooku, also a Jedi. He too felt a "coming storm" or disturbance in the galaxy, but did not have the nerve to follow Dooku in exploring the dark side, or be moved to any direct action. He did in fact order the clone army, sensing the republic would need it. Sidious discovers this with Dooku under his wing. He allows the clone army to stay hidden seeing how it can meet his purposes later on but decides Sifo Dyas must die. Dooku kills his former friend and is given the title Darth Tyranus. He then erases Kamino from the Jedi records.

It's actually not too complicated.

Here is an exact passage from the book:

Spoiler

"One of your former confidants in the Jedi Temple has perceived the coming change, Sidious had told him. This one has contacted a group of cloners, regarding the creation of an army for the Republic. The order for the army can stand, for we will be able to make use of that army someday. But Master Sifo-Dyas cannot stand, for the Jedi cannot learn about the army until we are prepared to have them learn of it.

And so with the murder of Sifo-Dyas, Dooku had embraced the dark side fully, and Sidious conferred on him the title of Darth Tyrannus. His final act before leaving the Jedi Order was to erase all mention of Kamino from the Jedi archives. Then, he had found Fetton Bogg 4; had instructed him to deliver himself to Kamino; and had arranged for payment to be made to the cloners through circuitous routes..."

 

[shantyman]

A few other spoilers from the book (these are hardcore, if you read many surprisess in the book will be ruined. Most center around General Grievous):

Spoiler

*General Grievous is not force sensitive. He was taught lightsaber forms by Dooku. Dooku thinks to himself how he loathes saber battling with more than one blade, specifically menting Grievous of course, but also Darth Maul and Anankin when he tried to do it in AOTC.

*Grievous hates the Jedi because they engineered a truce in a war between his race and another called the Huk. Grievous was a decorated general for his race, and considered the Huk the aggressors. Because of the Huk's value to trade, the republic/jedi sided with them. This is all from Grievous' point of view.


*Grievous is a cyborg. Sidious wanted to get him to assist him but he refused, so a shuttle crash was planned so grievous could be rebulit as a cyborg and also "reprogrammed" to an extent.

*Grievous does not know Sidious is Palpatine. As a matter of fact, when grevious kidnaps Palpatine (setting up ROTS), Palpatine uses a mind trick on him.

*Qui Gon speaks to Yoda through the force.

*Mace Windu fights Grievous atop a speeding train.

*The republic actually discovers Sidious in the book, but the search party is "unprepared".

*Anakin and Obi Wan get drunk while searching for someone. (seriously)

 

[ManaByte]

A few other spoilers from the book (these are hardcore, if you read many surprisess in the book will be ruined. Most center around General Grievous):

Spoiler

*Qui Gon speaks to Yoda through the force.

Movie spoiler

Spoiler

He does that in the movie also. Qui-Gon is the one who explains the Jedi spirits thing and Yoda becomes his student.

It happens in Polis Massa where the twins are born. Yoda tells Obi-Wan about it and while Obi-Wan is in isolation on Tatooine and Yoda is on Dagobah, they are both learning from Qui-Gon how to die and become a Jedi spirit.

T'Bone posted some new spoiler stuff:
http://starwarz.com/tbone/movie_news/

- Just about everything you've read on sites like here, TFN and MF is true, minus a minor detail or two here and there.

 

[Liono]

I came across some cool artwork by a french artist, goes by riddick:

http://a.tuis.free.fr/images_color/StarWarsAnthologie.jpg

That painting actually makes it look like hayden is luke's father, maybe it was a decent casting call afterall-- too bad he still can't act.

 

[ManaByte]

I came across some cool artwork by a french artist, goes by riddick:

http://a.tuis.free.fr/images_color/StarWarsAnthologie.jpg

That painting actually makes it look like hayden is luke's father, maybe it was a decent casting call afterall-- too bad he still can't act.

Life as a House and Shattered Glass.

The Schwartz is with Yoda:

 

[Simo]

From Star Wars Union:

Resized though...

CoGro from MF.com got to see the theatrical trailer and posted this transcript:

Here goes, from what I can recall:


20th century fox

Lucasfilm Ltd

"The Dark Side of the Force is the pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural."

"Is it possible to learn this power?"

"Not from a Jedi."

Then it's shots of palps talking to anakin, then obi to anakin, then mace to anakin "We do not grant you the rank of master"

At one point there's a quick shot of starfighters dogfighting in the battle. and of a magna guard facing the camera on the invisible hand.

Soon after the droid shot you see Mace barging into Palpatine's quarters.

There's a senate shot that cuts to Palpatine announcing Order 66. which cuts right to Vader (anakin) marching with stormtroopers in the temple.

There's a shot from the clonetrooper loading dock with transports, followed by Kashyyyk shots. This part is action heavy, the camera movements are quick, and really stunning. At one point you see an explosion in the Senate chamber.

The final shots that build up to the titles are Obi-wan and Anakin fighting, "You are the chosen one!" then EPISODE III ROTS.....Vader and Palps, then end credits.

Additional stuff:

There's one amazing Sidious shot with his face twisted that looks terrific.

The space battle stuff really sticks with me more than anything just because I'm most excited for that right now. It's just gorgeous.

Mustafar is very, very red. The shots reallyl give you the impression of hell, and I guess that's why that comparison has been brought up a bunch my Lucas.

He goes into more detail so head on over to MF.com

 

[Liono]

Life as a House and Shattered Glass.

I know he's competent but he gets lost on the blue-screen, just like Natalie Portman—where in the films they appear as if they’ve never acted before.

 

[Tabris]

I know he's competent but he gets lost on the blue-screen, just like Natalie Portman—where in the films they appear as if they’ve never acted before.

You're judging this from 1 movie?

and I thought he played his character perfectly, the problem wasn't the actor, the problem is you didn't like the character (angsty and melodramatic). Thus resulting in your perception of the actor being bad.

Portman is another story.

 

[Liono]

You're judging this from 1 movie?

Why not? If an actor sucks in one movie people don't say, well if they make a sequel maybe he'll be better in that one.

and I thought he played his character perfectly, the problem wasn't the actor, the problem is you didn't like the character (angsty and melodramatic). Thus resulting in your perception of the actor being bad.

Portman is another story.

No I think the acting was actually bad, though that banal cliche-ridden script couldn't have helped. I haven't seen it since I went to the theater way back, but those two came off as lifeless from what I remember-- and there was no chemistry at all between them.

But from looking at your avatar i'm sure your not biased.

 

[Tabris]

On another note, I don't know whether it's the scripts or the actors not being interested, but both Christopher Lee and Samuel L Jackson, amazing actors, have pretty poor performances.

I would have to say next to Ewan, Hayden had the best performance in Episode II.

He's got the "looks" down. The way he looks when he goes to kill the sand people, or when he's looking at Padme (he has this kind of creepy angst love-sick kid kind of look). He really gets those down.

 

[Tabris]

But from looking at your avatar i'm sure your not biased.

Oh, haha, I forgot I still had this avatar.

Yeah, I'm biased. I really liked Hayden's performance in EP2. I blame Portman for the no chemistry bit.

 

[thefit]

did the book get leaked or something?

 

[IAmtheFMan]

I thought Hayden's performance in EP:2 was pretty good; not fantastic by any means. I do think Lucas hired Hayden more for what he was capable of doing in EP:3 rather than EP:2.

 

[ManaByte]

There's a rumor going around that FOX will air the new theatrical trailer during the OC on March 10th.

 

[IAmtheFMan]

New one, courtesy of Tbone at Starwarz.com.

 

[ManaByte]

New one, courtesy of Tbone at Starwarz.com.

http://www.starwarz.com/tbone/movie_news/

If all goes well this will be the most dramatic and heart-tugging moment in the whole saga.

 

[Simo]

 

[evil ways]

Don't know if this one was already posted but it looks badass.

 

[ManaByte]

Don't know if this one was already posted but it looks badass.

Older than Yoda.

 

[evil ways]

Older than Yoda.

Well now you get to see it again, and again.

Oops there we go......

BTW Grievous's bodyguards look like cooler versions of a T-800 Terminator, and I bet they're more mobile and kick all sorts of ass.

 

[ShadowRed]

Found this on another board.

 

[The Bookerman]

Found this on another board.

Goddamn this looks awesome.

The lightsaber battles in AOTC sucked. This one sure looks great.

 

[ManaByte]

And that lightsaber battle is just in the first 10 minutes.

 

[The Bookerman]

And that lightsaber battle is just in the first 10 minutes.

Looks better than that stupid glowing light flashing in front of christopher lee and Hayden's face type of battle.


That was THE WORST fight in the entire saga: Anakin vs Dooku in AOTC.

 

[MrPing1000]

ohh noes!

 

[ManaByte]

Found this on another board.

Sabers and background are fan-made. That's not what the finished shot looks like. That is taken from the latest web doc and the source footage has a bluescreen and unfinished sabers.

 

[thefit]

Damn thats fan made? Lucas should have thje fans make the episodes instead.

Oh whait nevermind.

 

[mattx5]

Found this on another board.

Holy! That shot is channeling the ROTJ Luke vs Darth Vader duel like crazy! The panning, the foreground objects (staircase), panoramic view, etc.

Oh man, I just got goosebumps! That was my favorite shot in the OT, with Dark Side Beckons in the background...... ahhh, cinematic bliss

 

[Simo]

New images courtesy of T'Bone:

 

[IAmtheFMan]

Man, that area in Kasshyyk looks awesome. The webdoc where they showed how they built it was really cool, especially when they were like "here's the tree, now here's a wookie for scale reference" and the wookie is miniscule.

 

[SteveMeister]

Wow, those are fantastic... the long shot of coruscant with the Jedi Temple billowing smoke looks incredible!

 

[Spiritreaver]

Wow, those are fantastic... the long shot of coruscant with the Jedi Temple billowing smoke looks incredible!

It's the first pic so far that's really quite gotten to me, it's just such a sad shot. The rest of those are actually pretty nice too.

 

[ManaByte]

"A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil, helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights."

 

[ManaByte]

There are now only 90 Days until the release of Revenge of the Sith!

 

[VictimOfGrief]

There are now only 90 Days until the release of Revenge of the Sith!

That's pretty amazing, it's coming faster than I thought.

 

[radioheadrule83]

I've seen enough.
I now KNOW for certain that I'll love this movie.

Reading the quotes at MF.com has assured me of this as well.

 

[AirBrian]

There are now only 90 Days until the release of Revenge of the Sith!

Damn time is flying. That also means E3 is just 90 days away too.

This shot is awesome: