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[derder]

The reality of the matter is that soda consumption needs to be regulated; if not for stupid adults, for the children.

I'll qualify that by saying that we could find the same correlation between childhood soda consumption and obesity as we found with lung cancer and smoking.

 

[Eidan]

True and I am not fully against the idea of a tax. It would also probably be more effective getting people to cut back as well.

I guess to sum it up I have no problem with the government saying if you want to drink, eat, or smoke things that cause others to have pay more to take care of you we are going to have a tax on those items. If it is done right.

It's the idea of the government out right telling me that they know better and I can't have something that only bring harm to me and no one else. That annoys me. I am an adult I don't need a nanny.

But you AREN'T being told you can't have something. If you want more soda you can GET more soda.

 

[J-Rod]

Businesses are not forcing you into anything. They make and stock what people will buy. If there was demand for it, they would be just as happy using shelf space to sell you a grass and soybean juice cocktail and pepsi co would be just as happy supplying them with an 80oz version of it. If there are people willing to buy it, then some business down the road probably has you covered.

Some people's problem is not that businesses are forcing anything upon them, but rather they are not forcing what they want onto everybody else. It rubs people the wrong way when so many others don't embraced their enlightened and superior personal lifestyle choices.

 

[DerZuhälter]

New York just got less attractive to me as possible future home..

 

[speculawyer]

whatever

 

[Cagey]

I think what's getting lost in the FREEDOM OF CHOICE response is children and young adults and childhood obesity. No one has sympathy for your average adult who chooses to drink empty calories every day (...whether that be soda or other culprits that the law won't address because of demographics, i.e. Starbucks) and balloons in the process. Personal responsibility etc.

I don't expect 13 year olds to be so wise.

Not that I like the law much, but it's more than just posters here arguing about their own ability ot choose correctly without government intervention.

 

[scorcho]

We've actually banned - as in cannot get in any size, not just the largest size - caffeinated alcoholic drinks. We also have to suffer the indignity of leaving the bar for a smoke and lost the ability to swerve across the entire lane thanks to the mass-installation of cycling lanes.

So much freedom in New York. Lost.

New York just got less attractive to me as possible future home..

yay!

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

Hahahaha, not familiar with New York mayors I see.

I know most NYers don't want this ban. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/23/nyregion/most-new-yorkers-oppose-bloombergs-soda-ban.html?_r=1
But that doesn't stop Nanny Boy from showing who's boss.

"This is not the end," Eliot Hoff, a spokesman for New Yorkers for Beverage Choices, said in a statement after the board's vote. "We will continue to voice our opposition to this ban and fight for the right of New Yorkers to make their own choices. And we will stand with the business owners who will be hurt by these arbitrary limitations."

Isn't it quite amazing that in a supposedly "free" country, we now have to have a group called "New Yorkers for Beverage Choices" to protect one of the most simple and basic human rights: To choose what we want to drink.
Freedom never tasted so little.

 

[rCIZZLE]

There we go. There's the seed for all of the outrage, an annoyance. YOu'll have to excuse me if I don't really consider that any kind of a meaningful influence when thinking about ways to try to improve public health.

Also, your annoyance is no more than mine when I have to lug a giant canister of drink and popcorn when I just wanted small manageable sizes. Tough shit all around.

Well, perhaps I should have the same mindset about things that don't effect me. What a wonderful society.

Go to a theater or fast food place that offers smaller sizes. They have all the freedom in the world to provide it until government muscle intervenes.

 

[scorcho]

Isn't it quite amazing that in a supposedly "free" country, we now have to have a group called "New Yorkers for Beverage Choices" to protect one of the most simple and basic human rights: To choose what we want to drink.
Freedom never tasted so little.

http://www.republicreport.org/2012/...assroots-movement-against-bloomberg-soda-ban/

We looked into the website to try to figure out who runs it. We discovered that the American Beverage Association — the chief lobbying association for Big Soda — has contracted with Goddard Claussen Public Affairs, a leading PR firm recently renamed Goddard Gunster, according to its 990 financial disclosure form the beverage association is required to file with the IRS.

Then we performed a web domain search and found that Goddard owns nycbeveragechoices.com through GoDaddy domains.

Goddard Gunster is not a group of concerned citizens in New York City. It is based in Washington, D.C. Its founding partner is Ben Goddard, who ran the infamous “Harry and Louise” ad campaign that killed off health reform efforts under President Bill Clinton.

Again, we think that this issue deserves a rigorous debate. But it’s almost fitting that Big Soda is fighting a measure that is aimed at making people healthier by hiring a PR firm run by the man who killed a proposal that might have helped the people who were sickened by excessive soda drinking.

 

[Parallacs]

But you AREN'T being told you can't have something. If you want more soda you can GET more soda.

Restaurants are being told they can't have something (cups larger than 16 oz). I doubt they will be able to mark up the price enough to cover the larger sizes.

Anyone else share their soda in the theatre? In almost any theatre, large sodas are freaking expensive but the updrade from small is like 15c. Buying two smalls would almost double the price.

 

[CrunchyFrog]

So the ban doesn't include fruit juices or milkshakes, which are just as bad or worse, nor does it affect vending machines and convenience stores? I'm not sure I understand what the point is in banning >16oz sodas at restaurants exclusively. It... it almost sounds like a toothless, posturing political move with no real power or intention to change the status quo...

.

Educate people about eating better, don't dictate people's lives.

 

[bengraven]

I'd be OK with banning the sale of liquor bottles greater than a fifth to consumers.

Shots only. Sorry.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

http://www.republicreport.org/2012/...assroots-movement-against-bloomberg-soda-ban/

Yet, if people formed a grassroots group on this subject they would be mocked for spending time on it. At least this way people can still oppose the measure via a trade group absorbing the costs and time required to start it up.

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

http://www.republicreport.org/2012/...assroots-movement-against-bloomberg-soda-ban/

Well duh. I could have guessed that without looking, but that's beside the point. The point is that this organization is now forced to exist, regardless of its origin.

 

[OriginofHysteria]

http://www.tobaccofreekids.org/research/factsheets/pdf/0146.pdf

do you want me to continue this?

Ill admit that yes raising the prices and tax on cigarettes did cut down on smoking, and obv it would have an affect on younger kids.

But I was arguing that it was more than just a price hike and ban that got people to stop. That's not an illogical thing to think.

Have you ever seen those quit smoking commercials that NY airs? That would be enough for me to quit smoking.

 

[Eidan]

Well duh. I could have guessed that without looking, but that's beside the point. The point is that this organization is now forced to exist, regardless of its origin.

An organization will come up to protest anything as long as powerful interests could possibly lose money. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

 

[Almighty]

But you AREN'T being told you can't have something. If you want more soda you can GET more soda.

Uh yeah I am.

I am being told that I can no longer get my soda(or other sweetened drinks) in a container larger then 16 ounces in NYC.

Sure I can work around it, but that doesn't mean it is not a terrible idea and something the government for reasons I have already mentioned should leave alone.

Honestly though I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. Since I am not affected directly by this(as I don't live in NYC or anywhere close) I don't see a good reason to spend more time on this. I have already given my thoughts on this subject.

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

An organization will come up to protest anything as long as powerful interests could possibly lose money. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

It's the absurdity.
Are you bychance affiliated with New Yorkers Against Beverage Choices?

 

[Davidion]

Well, perhaps I should have the same mindset about things that don't effect me. What a wonderful society.

Go to a theater or fast food place that offers smaller sizes. They have all the freedom in the world to provide it until government muscle intervenes.

You already do.

Funny thing about that is, I literally don't have access to a theater that offers smaller sizes. Whoops. There goes them choice-limiting market forces again.

I'll sit here and wait as the gubmint tries to take away my freedom to get a smaller soda. Oh wait, they're not going to do that because there's a specific purpose to serving restrictions.

But you know, big brother.

 

[Eidan]

It's the absurdity.
Are you bychance affiliated with New Yorkers Against Beverage Choices?

No, but I am a card carrying member of Americans Against FREEDOM, CHOICE, AMERICA!

 

[Dai101]

Meanwhile, in Mexico:

Almost a gallon.

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

No, but I am a card carrying member of Americans Against FREEDOM, CHOICE, AMERICA!

I'm not surprised.

But if there were such a group, I imagine you'd support them - based on the position you've taken here. Amicorrect?

 

[scorcho]

Well duh. I could have guessed that without looking, but that's beside the point. The point is that this organization is now forced to exist, regardless of its origin.

It exists because it'll take money away from multinational corporations. They even hired an exaggerated Woody Allen New Yawker to be their spokesperson. I haven't heard that accent in some time.

But back to that freedom thing...

Ill admit that yes raising the prices and tax on cigarettes did cut down on smoking, and obv it would have an affect on younger kids.

But I was arguing that it was more than just a price hike and ban that got people to stop. That's not an illogical thing to think.

Have you ever seen those quit smoking commercials that NY airs? That would be enough for me to quit smoking.

yes, those commercials are brutal, and they're yet another angle that the Bloomberg administration has taken to keep our rates lower than the national average.

 

[Eidan]

I'm not surprised.

But if there were such a group, I imagine you'd support them - based on the position you've taken here. Amicorrect?

I guess it depends on the FREEDOM that you're being robbed of. FREEDOM to leave your home whenever you want, I'd support. FREEDOM to drink as many soft drinks as you want, I'd also support, but I'd rather you had to buy two drinks as opposed to one big one.

 

[Parallacs]

An organization will come up to protest anything as long as powerful interests could possibly lose money. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

Calling it now: "People for the Protest of the Ban Against Dolphin Calendars".

The point he is trying to make is that ten years ago, no one could see this coming. It sounds so silly.

 

[rCIZZLE]

You already do.

Funny thing about that is, I literally don't have access to a theater that offers smaller sizes. Whoops. There goes them choice-limiting market forces again.

I'll sit here and wait as the gubmint tries to take away my freedom to get a smaller soda. Oh wait, they're not going to do that because there's a specific purpose to serving restrictions.

But you know, big brother.

explain

Can you really not see the difference between someone not offering something and the government telling them they can't offer that same thing?

 

[Eidan]

Calling it now: "People for the Protest of the Ban Against Dolphin Calendars".

The point he is trying to make is that ten years ago, no one could see this coming. It sounds so silly.

Ten years ago was only 2002. It's not like special interest groups just came into existence this election cycle.

 

[MetatronM]

Restaurants are being told they can't have something (cups larger than 16 oz). I doubt they will be able to mark up the price enough to cover the larger sizes.

Anyone else share their soda in the theatre? In almost any theatre, large sodas are freaking expensive but the updrade from small is like 15c. Buying two smalls would almost double the price.

Have you been to a theater recently? The last time I went to a theater here in the city, about a month ago, the SMALL soda was 32 oz. THIRTY TWO OUNCES. As the smallest available "choice." Do you really need more than one of those to be able to share it?

 

[Parallacs]

Ten years ago was only 2002. It's not like special interest groups just came into existence this election cycle.

Still don't think we are talking about the same thing. SIX months ago, hearing the name of this group would have been absurd.

 

[Flatline]

Well duh. I could have guessed that without looking, but that's beside the point. The point is that this organization is now forced to exist, regardless of its origin.

Is it really? Your previous post made it look like they're some kind of freedom fighters when in reality they're corporate stooges using a ridiculous name to rile people like you. Post in question:

Isn't it quite amazing that in a supposedly "free" country, we now have to have a group called "New Yorkers for Beverage Choices" to protect one of the most simple and basic human rights: To choose what we want to drink.
Freedom never tasted so little.

 

[Parallacs]

Have you been to a theater recently? The last time I went to a theater here in the city, about a month ago, the SMALL soda was 32 oz. THIRTY TWO OUNCES. As the smallest available "choice." Do you really need more than one of those to be able to share it?

I know the cup sizes... This just brings up an interesting problem. Here is what the new theatre's concession stand will look like:

8oz soda: $3.49
12oz soda: $3.65
16oz buster size: $3.89

None of those will be large enough to share.

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

I guess it depends on the FREEDOM that you're being robbed of. FREEDOM to leave your home whenever you want, I'd support. FREEDOM to drink as many soft drinks as you want, I'd also support, but I'd rather you had to buy two drinks as opposed to one big one.

Say I want a 20 oz. soda (the size I usually get, but I can't buy it because of a stupid ban) and only a 16 oz size was available.

- If I were to do the maths:

2 x 16 oz. = 32
1 x 20 oz. = 20

32 - 20 = 12. (hope you can follow this)

That's 12 extra oz that I don't want.
You support a law that asks me to buy 12 extra oz if I want 20 oz. of soda?

 

[rangersfan414]

Can't you just get two mediums and then it'll be larger than the now banned large size?

Or do a combination of a medium and a small?

 

[Cagey]

I know the cup sizes... This just brings up an interesting problem. Here is what the new theatre's concession stand will look like:

8oz soda: $3.49
12oz soda: $3.65
16oz buster size: $3.89

None of those will be large enough to share.

I think it'll look more like this, with the emphasis on the branding involved:
16oz $4
16oz two-pack = $6
16oz family four pack = $10

With unlimited refills.

BUY MOAR SODAS

 

[Davidion]

explain

Can you really not see the difference between someone not offering something and the government telling them they can't offer that same thing?

What is the difference to me as a consumer? Other than the ego I want to attach to thinking that's "my" choice?

Now, can you really not see the difference between the government preventing me from oh, I don't know, legally protest and/or vote, and how much soda I'm able to buy in a single container?

Every single policy restrict someone's freedoms somehow. Go shed a tear for every single one of them. I'll wait.

 

[speculawyer]

Much ado about nothing. If this is a simple psychological trick that will improve public health without really taking away rights (you can order 2) then where is the harm?

I haven't seen this much stupidity since the people going crazy over light-bulb efficiency standards. Oh no! I can't get an inefficient light-bulb! Freedom is dead!

 

[Parallacs]

Say I want a 20 oz. soda (the size I usually get, but I can't buy it because of a stupid ban) and only a 16 oz size was available.

- If I were to do the maths:

2 x 16 oz. = 32
1 x 20 oz. = 20

32 - 20 = 12. (hope you can follow this)

That's 12 extra oz that I don't want.
You support a law that asks me to buy 12 extra oz if I want 20 oz. of soda?

We might as well use this ban as a chance to switch people over to the metric system.

Why are you guys upset about 16oz. That's almost 500ml!!

 

[Zoe]

The restrictions would not affect fruit juices, dairy-based drinks like milkshakes

:lol

Did they even think that through?

 

[Cagey]

We might as well use this ban as a chance to switch people over to the metric system.

Why are you guys upset about 16oz. That's almost 500ml!!

He doesn't want 500ml, he wants a god damn liter of cola.

 

[Parallacs]

He doesn't want 500ml, he wants a god damn liter of cola.

itsforacop....

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

We might as well use this ban as a chance to switch people over to the metric system.

Why are you guys upset about 16oz. That's almost 500ml!!

The metric system now? Omg.
There's only so much my poor heart can take in a day.

 

[Cagey]

itsforacop....

What the hell's that all about? Are you gonna spit in it now?

 

[jamesinclair]

Bans on products people love to ingest are usually amazingly successful.

Ugh, what?

People love to ingest 32oz cardboard containers?



Thus is fantastic and should provide some amazing data points

 

[Eidan]

Say I want a 20 oz. soda (the size I usually get, but I can't buy it because of a stupid ban) and only a 16 oz size was available.

- If I were to do the maths:

2 x 16 oz. = 32
1 x 20 oz. = 20

32 - 20 = 12. (hope you can follow this)

That's 12 extra oz that I don't want.
You support a law that asks me to buy 12 extra oz if I want 20 oz. of soda?

Let's repeal the law, and pity the poor soul who wants to buy a 21 oz. soda.

 

[Neuromancer]

He doesn't want 500ml, he wants a god damn liter of cola.

itsforacop....

Hahaha what a great movie.

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

Let's repeal the law, and pity the poor soul who wants to buy a 21 oz. soda.

Finally. A compromise. Are you watching, Congress? This is how it's done.

 

[Necrovex]

Later, Freedom.

 

[rCIZZLE]

What is the difference to me as a consumer? Other than the ego I want to attach to thinking that's "my" choice?

As a citizen it is your choice. Until 6 months from now, you can sell whatever size soda you want or buy whatever size someone is willing to provide. It's between the seller and the buyer.

Now, can you really not see the difference between the government preventing me from oh, I don't know, legally protest and/or vote, and how much soda I'm able to buy in a single container?

Both are government force. Now you're starting to understand.

Every single policy restrict someone's freedoms somehow. Go shed a tear for every single one of them. I'll wait.

Protecting others from a person (drunk driver) is different than protecting a person from themself (soda ban).

 

[diffusionx]

Much ado about nothing. If this is a simple psychological trick that will improve public health without really taking away rights (you can order 2) then where is the harm?

I haven't seen this much stupidity since the people going crazy over light-bulb efficiency standards. Oh no! I can't get an inefficient light-bulb! Freedom is dead!

Yea, seriously. The idea that people came, of their own volition, to the idea that they need to buy these giant sodas in the exact size that companies maximize profit with is simply inane.