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[Ignatz Mouse]

Talk of the Spider-Man font on the PS3 has me thinking about how the three players are positioning their brands. What's interesting to me in all of this is that, for all the talk of system power, or online, or even games, marketing is probably hte biggest factor in a console's success (that marketing is built of those other factors, so they aren't irrelevant-- merely indirect influencers).

So, that said--

Nintendo is positioning themselves as themselves. Their biggest claims so far have been very Nintendoish:

1) small console
2) innovative controller (as yet unrevealed, but you'd thik it *was* the system from the talK)
3) access to Nintendo's library-- always a Nintendo selling point, amplified with the downloadable old versions of games.

Once again, but perhaps more that last gen, Nintendo is trying to define themselves as "not competing" with the other two consoles, and for a segment of the buying population, that's certainly true-- the family friendly segment. Regardless of reality, Nintendo has that image and it both helps and hurts them. I know many families that have a Cube simply because they want a kid-friendly system

Microsoft and Sony seem to be swapping some key roles:

1) Sony is now playing the graphic superiority card instead of MS last gen
2) MS is now getting to market earlier
3) MS is claiming "complete package" as opposed to h/w, much as Sony tried to last generation

Xbox can now clain to be "cool" the way that only Sony could before. Sony still has a claim to this notion as well. Sony seems to be faltering on this front, however-- with the dorky controller design and the Spider-Man font.

Sony is continuing to lay claim to the "most software" seat at the table, although MS is making big gains there as well.

It seems that as Nintendo amplifies their old strategy, Sony and MS are left to figth each other for the rest of the market (apparently the bigger portion, given the numbers this generation)-- and Sony is making at least a few missteps when Xbox is making gains, although MS has given up the graphics whore segment of the market to do so (and that's probably smart, because graphical superiority doesn't seem to be that big a factor in the market, compared to the areas they are making gains).

Thoughts? I'm sure there's aspects of the marketing I am overlooking.

edit: for my embarassing typing skills.

 

[trmas]

and Sony is making at least a few missteps when Xbox is making gains

I sure as hell haven't seen that. Instead Sony basically derailed all the posititve press that the 360 was gaining at E3, and I expect them to continue their campaign throughout the Fall. If the PS3 is on preorder this X-Mas with a BRD, superior tech, and a comparable price, it will help to keep some gamers from buying a 360. Especially since the majority of the launch games just don't look siginificantly better... yet.

Nintendo will do what they always do.

 

[Ceb]

Xbox can now clain to be "cool" the way that only Sony could before. Sony still has a claim to this notion as well. Sony seems to be faltering on this front, however-- with the dorky controller design and the Spider-Man font.

While the 360 controller seems to be more comfortable than the PS3 one, I don't really know if it's less "dorky".

It's still too early to compare the two, but so far, MS has shown that they still don't have an understanding of the whole concept of "cool". The MTV showing, their early ads, taglines and PR talk makes this very apparent.

 

[Son of Godzilla]

Thoughts? I'm sure there's aspects of the marketing I am overlooking.

Spiderman

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Sony missteps:

1) Not matching or trupming Live. Live is a pretty big seller is end users and to developers. They might still do this, but they haven't yet.

2) The controllers. They may work like a charm, but as of now, everyone is making fun of them.

3) The look of the box intelf. This may be more of a neutral, but the Spider-Man font thing, small as it is, is what got me thinking that Sony is not completely on top of things. COmpare to the PSP, which was hawt sex to almost everyone who saw or touched one.

Of course, the PS2 got mixed revies for looks as well, but that didn't stop if from being the hottest thing around at launch.

True, Sony did expertly unveil the PS3 and signifiicantly neutered the Xbox 360 press.

True, MS is kinda clunky on the "cool" front, but I think they're doing way better already than they did with the Xbox.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Oh, I did forget:

Sony is trumping on the compatibilty/connectability front. A bazillion ports, backwards compatible all the way to the PS1, Blu-Ray Drive. That's actually a major chip for them.

MS, OTOH, is bumbling this one. HS only as an add-on (making them even with Sony), BC message completely botched and they've generated self-FUD on that front.

 

[Elios83]

Sony missteps:

1) Not matching or trupming Live. Live is a pretty big seller is end users and to developers. They might still do this, but they haven't yet.

2) The controllers. They may work like a charm, but as of now, everyone is making fun of them.

3) The look of the box intelf. This may be more of a neutral, but the Spider-Man font thing, small as it is, is what got me thinking that Sony is not completely on top of things. COmpare to the PSP, which was hawt sex to almost everyone who saw or touched one.

Of course, the PS2 got mixed revies for looks as well, but that didn't stop if from being the hottest thing around at launch.

True, Sony did expertly unveil the PS3 and signifiicantly neutered the Xbox 360 press.

True, MS is kinda clunky on the "cool" front, but I think they're doing way better already than they did with the Xbox.

They have not unveiled their online strategy,so all the comments on this should be postponed.
Also you can't call a misstep the fact they have chosen the Spiderman font and you don't like it.
The pad was a prototype and even if in the pictures it seems ridicolous who knows if it's comfortable.

 

[DarienA]

1) Not matching or trupming Live. Live is a pretty big seller is end users and to developers. They might still do this, but they haven't yet.

Anyone who expects this to happen should probably just hold their breath and stick their head in the sand right now. Sony is NOT going to Match Live in it's current incarnation. They will have a more unified service than what they had this generation(which is to say more then NOTHING that they had this generation), but anyone expecting Playstation World to be like XBL 2.0... is in for sorrow, discomfort, and the occasional painful bowel movement.

And this Spiderman font bullshit... you folks really need to get a grip. For all we know because of all the Spiderman promo stuff going on at E3 they simply could have done the font on the unit that was to go along with all the cross promo Spiderman thingy dohickey stuffs...

The pad? Yeah it's scary... thank god I don't believe it's the final design.

 

[PhatSaqs]

Yeah I agree. MS is essentially popping their own balloon after inflating it with tons of helium pre E3.

The PD0 scandal, the many quicky XB to 360 ports, questions surrounding BC, the Sony PR machine kicking into gear, etc.

They really had a chance to be in full flight post E3 but they dropped the ball bigtime.
Though I doubt any of it will matter come October/November.

And no, Sony wont be trumping Live for a long while. MS has a huge headstart in that arena.

 

[DarienA]

Here's what I don't get about MS... why show a SHITTY version of PDZ to the world at the MTV showing and then apparently show a much BETTER build BEHIND CLOSED DOORS at E3?

ummm huh?

 

[pilonv1]

Sony is NOT going to Match Live in it's current incarnation. They will have a more unified service than what they had this generation(which is to say more then NOTHING that they had this generation), but anyone expecting Playstation World to be like XBL 2.0... is in for sorrow, discomfort, and the occasional painful bowel movement.

If Sony roll out a unified service that's even close to XBL 1.0 I'd consider it a success and Ken should throw a parade.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

Here's what I don't get about MS... why show a SHITTY version of PDZ to the world at the MTV showing and then apparently show a much BETTER build BEHIND CLOSED DOORS at E3?

ummm huh?

Good question, but I don't think that they thought wallguy would been blown up to the proportion that he is. :lol

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

They have not unveiled their online strategy,so all the comments on this should be postponed.
Also you can't call a misstep the fact they have chosen the Spiderman font and you don't like it.
The pad was a prototype and even if in the pictures it seems ridicolous who knows if it's comfortable.

Not even having unveiled a strategy is a missttep. It sends the message that this is not central to them. That's right now. As I said, they could reverse this, but they've already made a positioning move but not having specifics.

The font? A very minor thing. But it is odd to use a font that will be associated with an "old" movie, or at best, with a very specific summer blockbuster (assuming SM3 comes out around the same time and uses the same font).

The "pad is a prototype" thing is a bit specious. If they didn't like it, they wouldn't show it. It's where they are headed. They can change course, but right now, it's a negative.


BTW, I am a hugy Sony fan. I'm just trying to call what I see going on without having an agenda to boost or derail any one system.

 

[gofreak]

Microsoft and Sony seem to be swapping some key roles:

1) Sony is now playing the graphic superiority card instead of MS last gen
2) MS is now getting to market earlier
3) MS is claiming "complete package" as opposed to h/w, much as Sony tried to last generation

Between MS and Sony this might be a swapping of roles, but in the bigger picture, Sony hasn't changed from their role - they've never been first to market.

 

[sol5377]

Here's what I don't get about MS... why show a SHITTY version of PDZ to the world at the MTV showing and then apparently show a much BETTER build BEHIND CLOSED DOORS at E3?

ummm huh?

They taped that show a week or two before E3, so the E3 build wasn't quite ready. Besides, they showed so little of the game to begin with, that it really didn't matter. And the focus was more on showing glimpses of games mixed with celebrities, the hardware, a music just to get the buzz out there and it seemed to have worked (for a cheap price, too).

 

[DarienA]

Not even having unveiled a strategy is a missttep. It sends the message that this is not central to them. That's right now. As I said, they could reverse this, but they've already made a positioning move but not having specifics.

...that's funny cause the actual dialogue of the presentation AND the various interviews after the fact all had each executive mentioning that online WAS important to them...

and I ask again why the hell do people expect Sony to have rolled all of this out for your perusal at least a year in advance?

They taped that show a week or two before E3, so the E3 build wasn't quite ready. Besides, they showed so little of the game to begin with, that it really didn't matter. And the focus was more on showing glimpses of games mixed with celebrities, the hardware, a music just to get the buzz out there and it seemed to have worked (for a cheap price, too).

Except the buzz wasn't positive.

 

[Razoric]

Here's what I don't get about MS... why show a SHITTY version of PDZ to the world at the MTV showing and then apparently show a much BETTER build BEHIND CLOSED DOORS at E3?

ummm huh?

The only reasoning I can come up with is the MTV version was one they were comfortable with letting outside people play (maybe no bugs or less buggy) and the "new" version is still in testing with bugs / framerate issues / etc so they wanted to keep it more controlled.

Also to counter the PS3 controller argument one could say the same thing... If Sony didn't like the controller design or wasn't planning on using something similar to it, then why show it? Why have that controller be the first impression gamers get if you arent going to use it? Not that I want them to change it... I looks like shit but it could be comfortable for all I know. Did anyone hold the thing at E3? Have their been any "hands on" impressions of it?

 

[Lord Error]

COmpare to the PSP, which was hawt sex to almost everyone who saw or touched one.

Funny, but when I got to see the PS3 in person, the omgbbqsex was the first thing that crossed my mind, and people's jaws in general just dropped there much the same way they do when someone first sees PSP in person. The PS3 is one of the rare examples where promo photos actually don't do the full justice to the real life look of the hardware (PSP is actually another example of this - the only photos that did it justice where ones made by EDGE photographer). I shit you not, PS3 in that glass cage looked like something that is supposed to retail for $1000 - minimum, power/eject touch sensors, slot loading drive, perfect looking plastic and all. Pretty stark contrast to Xbox 360 which has design elements (like tray loading mechanism and silver cover, or memory cards and slot covers) and uses plastic that kinda makes it look like something Apple would reject (or heaviliy improve) in the early stages of design experimentation.

The font? A very minor thing. But it is odd to use a font that will be associated with an "old" movie, or at best, with a very specific summer blockbuster (assuming SM3 comes out around the same time and uses the same font).

Spiderman AFAIK is supposed to be a six movie endeavour. So the franchize should be around about the time PS3 gets replaced.

The "pad is a prototype" thing is a bit specious. If they didn't like it, they wouldn't show it. It's where they are headed. They can change course, but right now, it's a negative.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't DS controller also laughed at when first shown? It's weird shape looked like a big departure from the controllers prior to it. I'm worried about the controller as the next guy, but that's one thing you really have to hold in your hands to really make judgement of. In real life, the controller was surprisingly small, btw. the analog sticks are much smaller than on DS2 too (assuming sticks being the same size as those on DS2 is what actually makes it look big in pictures).

Did anyone hold the thing at E3? Have their been any "hands on" impressions of it?

It was not possible to hold it, and it also said that the controller was the concept design, so who knows if it stays the same.

 

[DarienA]

Also to counter the PS3 controller argument one could say the same thing... If Sony didn't like the controller design or wasn't planning on using something similar to it, then why show it? Why have that controller be the first impression gamers get if you arent going to use it? Not that I want them to change it... I looks like shit but it could be comfortable for all I know. Did anyone hold the thing at E3? Have their been any "hands on" impressions of it?

I haven't see any hands-on impressions.. I was told that the look of the photos of the pad don't do it justice compared to how you see it in person... so who knows... for now....

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

...that's funny cause the actual dialogue of the presentation AND the various interviews after the fact all had each executive mentioning that online WAS important to them...

and I ask again why the hell do people expect Sony to have rolled all of this out for your perusal at least a year in advance?

I don't buy it, and I don;t think the press or developers are either. It smacks of lip-service, like Nintendo claiming in pre-Cube days to have more 3rd party support. They did-- but not enough.

And it's not for my perusal, it's for public consumption. It's a marketing show, and whay they chose to show and how they showed it (or talked about it) indicates their current strategy. Onlne will not be as important to Sony as it has been to MS and Live gamers. That's the message. It could change, but that's the direction they've set that ball rolling for now.

gofreak: re: time to market. True. I'm sure some people are seeing a parallel with 360 and the Dreamcast, for that matter.

Marconelly: re: DS being dorky. Could be. I don't think the controller is that big a piece of the puzzle, it was just an oddly sour note in the whole presentation. Regarding the ps3's presence in person, you may be right. I don't like the font and think it's a weird choice (like the look of the controller) but the rest of the design looks good.


On a somewhat different note: This thread was inspired in part by something I read ages ago about SCEA and the N64 premiere. Sony exec (I forget the guy's name-- pre Bernie Stollar) was waiting to see what they were going to do with it, and when they highlighted Mario, they all were relieved. They (correctly) believed that success would come from courting the older market, and that Mario would be the wrong message.

So I'm trying to dissect the messages from what the three are doing right now. It's a whole lot more interesting to me than what kind of performance hit FSAA is going to cause. What I am really, really interested in is the games-- but we don't know much about them yet!

 

[DarienA]

Onlne will not be as important to Sony as it has been to MS and Live gamers. That's the message. It could change, but that's the direction they've set that ball rolling for now.

That gets a big duh.....

 

[sol5377]

Sony: Bigger mindshare worldwide, blue ray disc, more japanese games support, better BC support (and more BC games), stronger hardware (by how much?)

Microsoft: Earlier launch, better online service, better controller, comes with hard-drive, stronger financially

This is truly going to be a battle of the titans... one for the freakin' ages! Sony will lose market share to Microsoft, but because the industry will expand, Sony will continue to do really well.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

That gets a big duh.....

That was in response to the comment that not having revealed anything, it should not be commmented on. Cleary not a "duh" for Elios83.