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it_wasn't_me
Banned
Maybe this would help :
EDIT: of course, Matt said both use HW RT and also in Wired article it says it's all hardware talk
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I already said in my spec prediction PS5 will have hardware RT. They will probably have AMDs next year RT solution. Perhaps it wont be housed on special place on die, but in CUs themselves, which would probably make CUs even bigger then they already are compared to GCN, so on top of that I wouldnt expect double digit TF numbers.
TLZ
Banned
The irony of this post coming from you. Every thing you said describes you perfectly. You are a known extremely rabid Xbox fanboy. Come the f on.Lol all over the place and sounding like a fanboy alarm went off. Sorry you got caught out there, i do that to many. Now sit down lol before the ignore button is hit. Power matters and just because you are trying to do mental gymnastic to protect your favorte piece of plastic, doesnt mean that power is irrelevant. Ability to play best third party is a nice advantage that this very forum pointed out quite a lot with ps4. Take care now
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Who knows what their internal goals are. But gunning for #1 marketshare isn't always the case, nor realistic.
With the way digital revenue, subscriptions and cloud services are flying around (they even partnered with Sony), don't be surprised if overall profits are more important than getting most Xbox units (which probably don't make much profits for console makers).
If MS could snap their fingers choose between #1. Get billions of profits from software and sub plans only (no more hardware), or #2. Have a gaming division that makes hardly any money but is heavily focused on Xbox hardware out there, they'd probably choose #1.
But since there's no genie out of a lamp, they are likely gunning for #3. A combo of Xbox gamers with hardware, a push for digital heavy services, and more digital services being a cloud provider. If they can score tons of software/server/cloud revenue, it should lead to profits like the rest of MS divisions that are software heavy. And the gaming division wont have to rely strictly on Xbox units.
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AMD showed 10 titles Vega56 v Navi10 (10.5TF vs 9.75TF) with Navi having on average 30% better performance (some titles 25%, some 30% and some 40%). So I expect something around 8.5-9TF max for next gen consoles.
KlickKlack
Banned
Spencer has said clearly that technically the 1.xbox SAD and 2. Scarlett are this consoleS..
In this interview its not one word about lockhard.
Don't play stupid.
The truth is that Spencer said Consoles and internet idiots spread the lies about lockhard.
Who was the first moron on the internet which had used first the name: lockhard?!
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nowhat
Gold Member
I dunno, the codename that was tossed around was "Lockhart".
ethomaz
Banned
He talked about next-gen consoles... you are playing dumb if you think SAD is next-gen lol
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XcloudTimdog
Banned
Also can be Xbox has more power and maybe even Hw ray tracing
SonGoku
Member
Until I unlock Migatte no Gokui - SonGoku
Thanks.
Reads as if he was scolded for breaking nda and now doing damage control
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demigod
Member
I don’t think he’s “playing” dumb.
Farrell55
Banned
Match the price at the same Time being more powerfull and Technical advance, also ms aquired top studios in the last Time! I think they are at least on the same level studio wise
demigod
Member
Lol, good one. I bet they are on Nintendo’s level too!
MaulerX
Member
They want it to be successful enough but actual box sales are not their main priority. Their main priority is to find a way to monetize you weather it be Console/PC/Xcloud/Gamepass etc...
Another thing worth noting is that currently, Xcloud is built with XBO S hardware. At the end of next year those Xcloud blades will be upgraded to Scarlett hardware. Point being that if they hook you into their services (Gamepass/Xcloud) then that Scarlett hardware (current one as well) will be used to monetize you weather you buy the physical box or not. Which is why they're so keen on emphasizing number of players, XBL subscribers etc...
Negotiator
Member
edit: wrong thread, delete plz
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If it is implemented in a similar way to Nvidia RTX. It would by my rough estimate take up ~10% extra space per CU (that's per CU not total die space). This is way less space than the changing to 7nm/+ would provide and shouldn't impact the TF numbers that much imo.
DemonCleaner
Member
i think you generally made a thoughtful post here, but the highlighted bit is off. you see the 5700XT should and would have been a $300 card if we wouldn't live in a post nvidia idiocity world. 250mm² die area even on expensive 7nm shouldn't result in die cost above $80 (absolutely worst case).
on how to fit horspower in a small power envelope you answered the question yourself: you take as many CUs as economical viable and clock them relatively low at low voltages.
and thats excactly what the console manufactures seem to be dooing: some people made a die size estimation out of the project scarlett trailer and that gave 400mm².
i hoped sony and ms would go with a MCM approach (GPU/I-O/CPU) this time around to keep prices low. but there still seems to be some challenges left with this kind of design (preventing that for now).
still, with a launch price of $499 there is nothing preventing them from going with a 400mm² monolithic APU even on expensive 7nm. worst case for that is that they will sell at cost (provided there are no cracy peripherals).
Burrito Bandito
Banned
PS4s dominance this gen would have probably been considered impossible if someone predicted it in 2012-2013 on the heels of an incredibly successful 360 run.
I agree that it will be extremely difficult but all it takes is for Sony to get complacent. MS will certainly bring their A-game, as they did with the One X and have been doing with their services. Could xcloud+gamepass+plus a well-built (one x like) console be enough to balance it out this gen? I think its doable. But the real kicker would be for them to undercut sony on price and take the hit.
Farrell55
Banned
So you think nintendos studios are better than sonys in General?
TeamGhobad
Banned
TeamGhobad
Banned
hard time believing MS would go from 40CUs to 44. i say 56 is the lowest. even with the higher clocks. and quite frankly 56CUs @ 1.8 and RT on top of that is more than enough.
Insane Metal
Member
All those videos by DF are a load of nothing. :/
FrostyJ93
Member
Notice he keeps talking about not expecting much teraflops talk form MS and Sony.
You guys aint getting more than 10TF.
Evilms
Banned
Spec Analysis: Can Project Scarlett truly deliver Xbox's biggest generational leap?
What if raw performance isn't the game-changer this time?
www.eurogamer.net
Aceofspades
Banned
Spec Analysis: Can Project Scarlett truly deliver Xbox's biggest generational leap?
What if raw performance isn't the game-changer this time?
So what now Rich? Scarlet now is 8TF like PS5 or what?
it_wasn't_me
Banned
Xbone fans still harrassing poor Andrew :
nowhat
Gold Member
Oh yeah. Colt Eastwood. Your go-to source for completely objective Xbox analysis. No, I'm not going to torture my brain by watching that.
Nobody has really proved to have any legit insider info. Shouting "I heard PS5 is more powerful than Xbox" or other way around sounds like clueless reporters trying to pretend like relevant insiders. 5 year old can make up that kind of rumor. Wired says nothing new that screams "insider info". Just repackaged same staff that's already out there.
At least DF is making educated guesses with information available.
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pawel86ck
Banned
I wonder if AMD can tweak their CU units a little to offer good RT acceleration. Separate RT cores take up a lot of die space while RT will be not always used in games.
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SpinningBirdKick
Banned
It wouldn't make much sense for CUs to be chewing through their tasks and then each have to get inline waiting for a limited number of separate RT cores.
ABrokenToy
Member
Listening to the Dealer Gaming podcast is like listening to 40 something year old man-babies trying to pacify broken hearted XBOX fanboys.
ABrokenToy
Member
Developers are wrong essentially. Also, Andrew based it on what devs told him about FINAL SPECS.
ethomaz
Banned
Wired info was official from Sony/Cerny mouth.
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CrustyBritches
Gold Member
They referenced Proelite from B3D and the measurements he did. Congrats bud.
If you've been keeping up with this thread and reading B3D, then there's not really anything new in the DF vid except some minor details on press meetings.
Sounds like there's a bit of a conundrum with marketing power via the traditional TFLOPS metric, especially since they were so heavy with pushing 4.2TF and 6TF with the mid-gen refreshes. If they say "8-9TF! of raw power", people will think old GCN FLOPS instead of RDNA. My feeling is next-gen marketing is gonna be banging the SSD and RT drum, and as they test the market the "loud minority" of hardcore gamers will focus on shiny shit so RT somehow becomes the next-gen marketing gimmick...hopefully not. 60fps is where it's at.
I'm staying with 36CU @ 1.8GHz, 16GB GDDR6, 4GB DDR4, 3.2GHz 8c/16t for PS5. Scarlett would be 44CU @ 1.6GHz, 18-20GB GDDR6, 3.2GHz 8c/16t. They'll probably strip some of the L3 cache in favor of more room/budget for RT/ML cores. *Pulled from my ass guess* is that Sony will be using hybrid/shader based RT, while MS goes for full fat RT/ML cores. Just to be on the record.
If you've been keeping up with this thread and reading B3D, then there's not really anything new in the DF vid except some minor details on press meetings.
Sounds like there's a bit of a conundrum with marketing power via the traditional TFLOPS metric, especially since they were so heavy with pushing 4.2TF and 6TF with the mid-gen refreshes. If they say "8-9TF! of raw power", people will think old GCN FLOPS instead of RDNA. My feeling is next-gen marketing is gonna be banging the SSD and RT drum, and as they test the market the "loud minority" of hardcore gamers will focus on shiny shit so RT somehow becomes the next-gen marketing gimmick...hopefully not. 60fps is where it's at.
I'm staying with 36CU @ 1.8GHz, 16GB GDDR6, 4GB DDR4, 3.2GHz 8c/16t for PS5. Scarlett would be 44CU @ 1.6GHz, 18-20GB GDDR6, 3.2GHz 8c/16t. They'll probably strip some of the L3 cache in favor of more room/budget for RT/ML cores. *Pulled from my ass guess* is that Sony will be using hybrid/shader based RT, while MS goes for full fat RT/ML cores. Just to be on the record.
Yeah, sorry. I misread the date of the article.
Fake
Member
Leak > Official info
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Specced for the stronger and with developers settings to emulate the weaker?
LordOfChaos
Member
Physically the stronger SKU with a software toggle to bring it down to the weaker, surely, as the architectures would be the same otherwise. No way they would have just shipped the weaker one with no way for devs to see their enhancements for the stronger.
I'm finding it hard to believe that while launching the same year as next gen RDNA, concurrent to Scarlett, and being the first to mention RT at all, they would miss out on the hardware based version of it in next gen RDNA. They'd know the roadmap before any of us did.
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I Love Rock 'n' Roll
Member
Do you also feel Pro and X are gonna be the real true stars and winners for next gen getting most of the games for the next 3 or 4 years and running them at 1080p and sometimes better?
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ABrokenToy
Member
I'm sticking with Sony launching Spring 2020, especially with Last of Us 2 being pushed to Feb 2020. My assumption is the game was pushed back so much to get it ready for PS5.
Fake
Member
At least the article is a good read, but #team8TF only now? Why they change the mind?Spec Analysis: Can Project Scarlett truly deliver Xbox's biggest generational leap?
What if raw performance isn't the game-changer this time?
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Nothing actually changed as 8-9TF RDNA is equivalent to 10-12TF Vega 56 - Vega 64 performance wise. Only those chasing headline TF will be disappointed.
Since the unveil of RX 5700/Navi 10 we have known the consoles will come in <10TF.
Fake
Member
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