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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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nowhat

Gold Member
As Albert said, cant go off of dev kits now. Nobody really knows but you do have Microsoft talking about power and immersive etc and sony saying nothing.
Uhh, both have said Zen2 and Navi. Both have said SSD, but nothing more specific than that, although Sony has demonstrated what this could mean in practice (with a current gen game). Both have said ray tracing, although MS has maintained hardware-based (but this doesn't mean Sony's solution wouldn't be too). Repeating "power" infinite times doesn't mean really anything.

So, realistically, all we know thus far is that architecturally both will be quite similar (as is the case this gen). But beyond that, neither company has said fuck all.
 

FranXico

Member
C’mon even DF talked with devs about Lockhart and how they didn’t like it.

At this point people really believes Lockhart never existed? lol

That looks more like damage control... if it never existed in my mind then it does never existed.
It sounds a lot like typical "Get The Facts" propaganda, when you put it like that.

"But the Xbox One was never going to have on-disc DRM!"

"But Microsoft has always been for cross-play!"

Not saying this is the case now, just pointing out familiar tones in what you said.
 
Uhh, both have said Zen2 and Navi. Both have said SSD, but nothing more specific than that, although Sony has demonstrated what this could mean in practice (with a current gen game). Both have said ray tracing, although MS has maintained hardware-based (but this doesn't mean Sony's solution wouldn't be too). Repeating "power" infinite times doesn't mean really anything.

So, realistically, all we know thus far is that architecturally both will be quite similar (as is the case this gen). But beyond that, neither company has said fuck all.
One said hardware tracing and the other didnt. Where is sony saying they think they will have the most powerful console like Matt Booty said. Xbox answering all the questions and Sony mum, no show on subject
 

nowhat

Gold Member
One said hardware tracing and the other didnt. Where is sony saying they think they will have the most powerful console like Matt Booty said. Xbox answering all the questions and Sony mum, no show on subject
One has actually demoed a unit (albeit devkit), other hasn't. One has said they will have the most powerful Xbox (notice the wording?). Xbox hasn't been answering "all the questions", they've been very much vague, but of course they have tried to be in the spotlight after (a rather lackluster) E3 showing, an event which Sony skipped.

Judging by your avatar I doubt you'll be able to have a realistic view of the current situation, but the fact of the matter is, neither company has really said anything so far, not at least anything substantial.

And really. If a company representative says anything, do you just take it as gospel? Remember the power of the cloud? Pepperidge farm remembers.
 
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THE:MILKMAN

Member
How do these devs know that the PS5 is more powerful when Project Scarlett dev kits literally just started being shipped to developers? That's the whole issue I have with this. I feel like both consoles will be very close performance wise regardless.

I think you have to carefully assess what is being said about what and when. e.g Aaron Greenberg was pushed by Geoff Keighley asking him if the Halo Infinite demo was on Scarlett hardware. Greenberg, under pressure, then said they were trying to get dev kits out and didn't want to say it was on Scarlett hardware etc. An understandable response. The reality being that Halo demo was probably made many months ago on a high-end PC before Scarlett dev kits were available.

Then we had Andrew Reiner reporting devs told him at E3 that PS5 is more powerful than Scarlett. This was at a point where devs have now had Scarlett hardware for a while (at/after GDC according to Brad Sams). More importantly than the hardware itself is I assume any devs that have both dev kits in June also then had the documentation that either detailed actual specs (like PS4, Xbox One, Pro docs in 2012 & 2016) or at least has target specs and PS5's are currently higher. Hence Reiner's specs rumour tweet.

I'm sure there will be many more specs twists to come. Tune in next week for the next gripping episode!
 

Gamernyc78

Banned
Boy did Red Dead Redemption 2 show off X power. Your argument was the mainstay for 3 years and you undoubtedly subscribed to resolution war. So you can pretend you didnt switch up, or be real about it. If ps5 was more powerful than Scarlett you do flips. Enjoy Gears 5 at native 4K too, power does matter and you said it matters so thanks for making my point. Just because you are insecure about ps5 being less powerful or rumored too, doesnt mean you get all salty about it. Be consistent.

Sorry ps4 exclusives still look better than Xbox x exclusives 🧂🧂🧂here is some more salt for you. Professionals and most agree Uncharted is on another graphical level than Gears tht boat sailed long ago. But hey have fun in your green bubble broooo. You won't win this one.

I could care less whether or not it is lol Neither do many others, Xbox x was not the sales savior of Microsoft and tht shows you how much ppl care, also u know those Sony software sales. Sony still busting tht ass but sure paint me having a false narrative lol 🍼🍼🧂🧂

Again everything matters just not as much as you think. From a neutral perspective Sony mindshare and the quality of games thy bring tht Microsoft cant touch won't allow Micro to take the sales lead. I mean we just saw a ps3 tht was hundreds more and had worse multiplats most of the gen still beat Microsoft in sales upon release world wide month after month almost every month lol doesn't that tell you something?
 
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Gamernyc78

Banned
As Albert said, cant go off of dev kits now. Nobody really knows but you do have Microsoft talking about power and immersive etc and sony saying nothing.

That wishful, hopeful thinking 😁 like the second gpu tht was hidden in the Xbox 360 tht MisterXMedia and idiots followed.

Best thing you said "Nobody really knows" leave it at tht. None of them want to give up the power advantage.
 
Sorry ps4 exclusives still look better than Xbox x exclusives 🧂🧂🧂here is some more salt for you. Professionals and most agree Uncharted is on another graphical level than Gears tht boat sailed long ago. But hey have fun in your green bubble broooo. You won't win this one.

I could care less whether or not it is lol Neither do many others, Xbox x was not the sales savior of Microsoft and tht shows you how much ppl care, also u know those Sony software sales. Sony still busting tht ass but sure paint me having a false narrative lol 🍼🍼🧂🧂

Again everything matters just not as much as you think. From a neutral perspective Sony mindshare and the quality of games thy bring tht Microsoft cant touch won't allow Micro to take the sales lead. I mean we just saw a ps3 tht was hundreds more and had worse multiplats most of the gen still beat Microsoft in sales upon release world wide month after month almost every month lol doesn't that tell you something?
Lol all over the place and sounding like a fanboy alarm went off. Sorry you got caught out there, i do that to many. Now sit down lol before the ignore button is hit. Power matters and just because you are trying to do mental gymnastic to protect your favorte piece of plastic, doesnt mean that power is irrelevant. Ability to play best third party is a nice advantage that this very forum pointed out quite a lot with ps4. Take care now 🍼
 

vpance

Member
How do these devs know that the PS5 is more powerful when Project Scarlett dev kits literally just started being shipped to developers? That's the whole issue I have with this. I feel like both consoles will be very close performance wise regardless.

It's pretty unlikely that MS had no kits out. He probably meant that the latest ones were just shipped.
 

Joho79

Member
But of course digital foundry and everyone else are wearing Sony goggles lol 🤔👌😁🧂🧂🧂

You are right. Bro you guys try to change history so much and distort shit it's funny. I just 😂😂😂

How's tht secret hidden gpu in xbox360 search still going? Found it yet?

I don’t rely on other people to tell what look good. I use my own eyes.
Don’t know what 360 has to do with this?
 

THE:MILKMAN

Member
As Albert said, cant go off of dev kits now. Nobody really knows but you do have Microsoft talking about power and immersive etc and sony saying nothing.

Like I said above I believe it isn't the physical hardware that is the source of the rumours about specs. The previous gens show the documents did detail final specs even 12-18 months from release.

Andrew Reiner's tweet didn't clarify if the devs were talking about the physical hardware dev kits or documents detailing targeted specs. I think the latter.

It's true Sony have been far too silent and last September Shawn Layden even acknowledged their communication with their install base needed to be addressed. We're still waiting for that really (SoP isn't enough IMO) but then with Microsoft beating their chest with the power message and then making a royal mess with the Lockhart debacle, they might just be holding back a little longer for now....
 
I dont realy care about which is more powerful i am gonna get the ps5 any way day one. I mean i only expect like a 10 percent difference. As long as ps5 is 10-11 tflops and a good ssd i am good. Thats more than enough
 
You joined less than 1 week ago
Im happy to ignore ppl like yourself or gamer who arent here for any real convos. I been here long time ago but unjust banning by Bish. Remember the guy who banned Xbox fans for being well Xbox. Thats all over with, if you dont know me cool. Guess you dont know the history here, kinda like guys who claim power doesnt matter but were here championing resolution over anything else at start of gen.
 

R600

Banned
Those last one are super annoying about 'PS5 will have GCN while nextbox Navi'.
Will get worse next year.
You mean the opposite? As Sony was rumored to have been first Navi customer you had droves of people saying Xbox comes with Vega.
 

Ar¢tos

Member
A thread creator should have the option to make his thread reply enabled to members only, being read only for neo members.
That should stop the astroturfing stupidity.
 

Fake

Member
You mean the opposite? As Sony was rumored to have been first Navi customer you had droves of people saying Xbox comes with Vega.
Just read some previous pages of this thread before quote me. They're saying PS5 will have GCN even after wired article drops.
They're saying the next box will get zen 3 as well... even after Phil saying Scarlet have zen 2 on this E3.
They're ignoring official information about next gen.
Its against logic.
 
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Those last one are super annoying about 'PS5 will have GCN while nextbox Navi'.
Will get worse next year.
This is nothing new TBH, I remember back in 2016-2017 folks arguing that Scorpio would have a Zen CPU and even to this very day they still argue that Scorpio does not use a Jaguar-derived CPU (even though we've seen the die photo and it looks nothing like Zen uarch).
 

SonGoku

Member
I dont realy care about which is more powerful i am gonna get the ps5 any way day one. I mean i only expect like a 10 percent difference. As long as ps5 is 10-11 tflops and a good ssd i am good. Thats more than enough
Exactly how i feel!
As long as the weaker machine is 11TF and has 20GB GDDR6 available for games, i couldn't care less which one takes the performance crown
 

Imtjnotu

Member
One said hardware tracing and the other didnt. Where is sony saying they think they will have the most powerful console like Matt Booty said. Xbox answering all the questions and Sony mum, no show on subject
tim.... look man. i know its not word for word but all the info that came from the scarlett video, sony had shared similar or the same during the wired interview. they even mentioned 120fps before Xbox. ND dev has came out and said RT is hardware based.
 

Farrell55

Banned
Just read some previous pages of this thread before quote me. They're saying PS5 will have GCN even after wired article drops.
They're saying the next box will get zen 3 as well... even after Phil saying Scarlet have zen 2 on this E3.
They're ignoring official information about next gen.
Its against logic.
Yeah right ps5 will be gcn but with some navi Features, and Scarlett will have zen 2 but with some zen 3 Features like 3 way smt and other tweaks, and Sir dont forget the officio Information about Scarlett has 4 times the Power of OneX
 

SonGoku

Member
How I feel about next gen:
xuzl89.png
 
One said hardware tracing and the other didnt. Where is sony saying they think they will have the most powerful console like Matt Booty said. Xbox answering all the questions and Sony mum, no show on subject

Sony isn't that dumb to say in advance that PS5 will be most powerful console like MS is saying for Xbox. It can be backfired later and Phil, Booty will become a subject for mocking over the internet. So, where is the demonstration for a fast SSD on Scarlett like Sony showed the Spider-man demomstration? Since you bitching about hardware RT, even though it is confirmed for PS5 via ND dev.
 

Lort

Banned
playstation-4-vs-xbox-one-vs-xbox-360-vs-ps3-cpu-and-gpu.jpg

ubisoft-cloth-simulation-ps4-vs-ps3.jpg


The Cell processor was a real power monster for its time, the tri core of the X360 couldn't fight it.

You found one benchmark in one senario that shows the “all powerful” ps4 cpu is weaker than an xbox one cpu. Your trying to use THAT to show the ps3 was a better machine? ... im guessing your also arguing xbox one is 20% more powerful than a ps4?

In every demonstrable real world scenario including games that have whole rendering engines designed for the cell such as bf3 .. the ps3 was still beaten by the xbox 360.

Heres some quotes about the “amazing” ps3 design compared to the actual amazing ahead of its time 360.


"I could go on for pages listing the types of things the spu's are used for to make up for the machines aging gpu, which may be 7 series NVidia but that's basically a tweaked 6 series NVidia for the most part. But I'll just type a few off the top of my head:....


1) Two ppu/vmx units
There are three ppu/vmx units on the 360, and just one on the PS3. So any load on the 360's remaining two ppu/vmx units must be moved to spu.

2) Vertex culling
You can look back a few years at my first post talking about this, but it's common knowledge now that you need to move as much vertex load as possible to spu otherwise it won't keep pace with the 360.

3) Vertex texture sampling
You can texture sample in vertex shaders on 360 just fine, but it's unusably slow on PS3. Most multi platform games simply won't use this feature on 360 to make keeping parity easier, but if a dev does make use of it then you will have no choice but to move all such functionality to spu.

4) Shader patching
Changing variables in shader programs is cake on the 360. Not so on the PS3 because they are embedded into the shader programs. So you have to use spu's to patch your shader programs.

5) Branching
You never want a lot of branching in general, but when you do really need it the 360 handles it fine, PS3 does not. If you are stuck needing branching in shaders then you will want to move all such functionality to spu.

6) Shader inputs
You can pass plenty of inputs to shaders on 360, but do it on PS3 and your game will grind to a halt. You will want to move all such functionality to spu to minimize the amount of inputs needed on the shader programs.

7) MSAA alternatives
Msaa runs full speed on 360 gpu needing just cpu tiling calculations. Msaa on PS3 gpu is very slow. You will want to move msaa to spu as soon as you can.

Post processing
360 is unified architecture meaning post process steps can often be slotted into gpu idle time. This is not as easily doable on PS3, so you will want to move as much post process to spu as possible.

9) Load balancing
360 gpu load balances itself just fine since it's unified. If the load on a given frame shifts to heavy vertex or heavy pixel load then you don't care. Not so on PS3 where such load shifts will cause frame drops. You will want to shift as much load as possible to spu to minimize your peak load on the gpu.

10) Half floats
You can use full floats just fine on the 360 gpu. On the PS3 gpu they cause performance slowdowns. If you really need/have to use shaders with many full floats then you will want to move such functionality over to the spu's.


11) Shader array indexing
You can index into arrays in shaders on the 360 gpu no problem. You can't do that on PS3. If you absolutely need this functionality then you will have to either rework your shaders or move it all to spu.

Etc, etc, etc...”

Sorry mods this can easily be seen as off topic .. i was posting this to show how xbox / amd were very strong technically and they should not be considered less skilled or advanced.. happy for you to move / delete and i wont post down this path here any further.
 
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Evilms

Banned
You found one benchmark in one senario that shows the “all powerful” ps4 cpu is weaker than an xbox one cpu. Your trying to use THAT to show the ps3 was a better machine? ... im guessing your also arguing xbox one is 20% more powerful than a ps4?

In every demonstrable real world scenario including games that have whole rendering engines designed for the cell such as bf3 .. the ps3 was still beaten by the xbox 360.

Heres some quotes about the “amazing” ps3 design compared to the actual amazing ahead of its time 360.


"I could go on for pages listing the types of things the spu's are used for to make up for the machines aging gpu, which may be 7 series NVidia but that's basically a tweaked 6 series NVidia for the most part. But I'll just type a few off the top of my head:....


1) Two ppu/vmx units
There are three ppu/vmx units on the 360, and just one on the PS3. So any load on the 360's remaining two ppu/vmx units must be moved to spu.

2) Vertex culling
You can look back a few years at my first post talking about this, but it's common knowledge now that you need to move as much vertex load as possible to spu otherwise it won't keep pace with the 360.

3) Vertex texture sampling
You can texture sample in vertex shaders on 360 just fine, but it's unusably slow on PS3. Most multi platform games simply won't use this feature on 360 to make keeping parity easier, but if a dev does make use of it then you will have no choice but to move all such functionality to spu.

4) Shader patching
Changing variables in shader programs is cake on the 360. Not so on the PS3 because they are embedded into the shader programs. So you have to use spu's to patch your shader programs.

5) Branching
You never want a lot of branching in general, but when you do really need it the 360 handles it fine, PS3 does not. If you are stuck needing branching in shaders then you will want to move all such functionality to spu.

6) Shader inputs
You can pass plenty of inputs to shaders on 360, but do it on PS3 and your game will grind to a halt. You will want to move all such functionality to spu to minimize the amount of inputs needed on the shader programs.

7) MSAA alternatives
Msaa runs full speed on 360 gpu needing just cpu tiling calculations. Msaa on PS3 gpu is very slow. You will want to move msaa to spu as soon as you can.

Post processing
360 is unified architecture meaning post process steps can often be slotted into gpu idle time. This is not as easily doable on PS3, so you will want to move as much post process to spu as possible.

9) Load balancing
360 gpu load balances itself just fine since it's unified. If the load on a given frame shifts to heavy vertex or heavy pixel load then you don't care. Not so on PS3 where such load shifts will cause frame drops. You will want to shift as much load as possible to spu to minimize your peak load on the gpu.

10) Half floats
You can use full floats just fine on the 360 gpu. On the PS3 gpu they cause performance slowdowns. If you really need/have to use shaders with many full floats then you will want to move such functionality over to the spu's.


11) Shader array indexing
You can index into arrays in shaders on the 360 gpu no problem. You can't do that on PS3. If you absolutely need this functionality then you will have to either rework your shaders or move it all to spu.

Etc, etc, etc...”

Sorry mods this can easily be seen as off topic .. i was posting this to show how xbox / amd were very strong technically and they should not be considered less skilled or advanced.. happy for you to move / delete and i wont post down this path here any further.
The numbers speak for themselves.
 
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