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[Bo_Hazem]

I like the concept of dreams but... 99% user created games are either hot garbage, demos and memes. I rather play minecraft than amateur hour

I bought it and played some of them, most of them are still work in progress. It's like with LittleBigPlanet games, they need time to see more and more polished creations there. There are still some great games so far:




It's really not comparable.

CXX*👁

Seems like you've seen those 240fps somewhere I hope you are doing better now, dear brother.

Oh man, you are committing a crime right now, GTA is the GOAT!! But I understand where you're coming from, I have talked to a lot of people who do not like GTA at all, but man the next-generation GTA is gonna be something I don't think we are ready for.

Will, as a concept and for online it's a good game, I guess, but not for me. It has everything (shooting, racing, billiard, arcade, etc) but in cheap quality.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Uh oh. That doesn't look good. It looks like it still has a lot of the bottlenecks present in the PC architecture.

If it'll take a second for PS5 to boot a game as per Cerny, how long will it take for xsex? My guess is 10 seconds. Still faster than PC though.

Yeah it's gonna be tough times when we see games in action, if 3rd party devs don't pull some trickery for parity sake. Remember, that's SATA 3, rated at 0.5GB/s raw with all the bottlenecks of the potato set up.

 

[Insane Metal]

I'll eat my shorts if the XSX or PS5 have better RT performance than RTX 2080Ti.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

I'll eat my shorts if the XSX or PS5 have better RT performance than RTX 2080Ti.

Go ahead, already said that at ultra 4K with ray tracing XSX made 100fps vs 60fps on 2080Ti.

Gears 5 Xbox Series X Digital Foundry Analysis Shows Leap Over XB1X, RTX 2080 Ti Performance

A Gears 5 demo thrown together in only two weeks already shows impressive high-end PC level performance. Check it out for yourself.

wccftech.com

 

[Insane Metal]

Go ahead, already said that at ultra 4K with ray tracing XSX made 100fps vs 60fps on 2080.

Gears 5 runs at Ultra PC settings on Xbox Series X

Gears 5 is among the first major current-gen games to get major enhancements on Xbox Series X, complete with Ultra-level PC settings performance.

www.tweaktown.com

I'll wait for a proper face to face to see if it's the same implementation, same quality assets, etc. There'll be lots of those

 

[MasterCornholio]

Dude it was a 3 hour podcast I'm not rewatching that for a throwaway quote

You will watch the podcast again.

YOU WILL WATCH THE PODCAST AGAIN!!!!!!

 

[Bo_Hazem]

I'll wait for a proper face to face to see if it's the same implementation, same quality assets, etc. There'll be lots of those

Yeah, wanna see the Nvidia demo now before believing any of that, but it's possible. I still find the PC version on that comparison to be sharper and cleaner around hair and some textures.

 

[Insane Metal]

Yeah, wanna see the Nvidia demo now before believing any of that, but it's possible. I still find the PC version on that comparison to be sharper and cleaner around hair and some textures.

I just watched the video, the depth of field and motion blur are clearly lower quality on the XSX, the rest is pretty much identical.

Still, we'll have to wait and see.

 

[Radical_3d]

Yeah, wanna see the Nvidia demo now before believing any of that, but it's possible. I still find the PC version on that comparison to be sharper and cleaner around hair and some textures.

This gen comparations already look ridiculous. Next generation are going to be identical:

 

[BattleScar]

People gonna be arguing over who has the highest resolution asscheek in the next Assassins Creed game.
Will be fun

 

[Hawking Radiation]

People gonna be arguing over who has the highest resolution asscheek in the next Assassins Creed game.
Will be fun

Textured cracks are the next battleground in DF videos

 

[LED Guy?]

I feel like one of the games that is going to get so much benefits is Days Gone, if they made a sequel for the PS5, Days Gone 2, that would be epic! Like....could you imagine the amount of zombies, animations, physics, gore systems, wind simulations, when they all come together and how the open-world will look and feel in that game?

Oh my! It will be CRAZY especially with that BLINDINGLY FAST SSD that PS5 has and that very powerful CPU in it as well.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

Somewhat related to next gen but I cant wait for PS5.

Just playing Red Dead 2 now and my PS4 Pro is fucking howling. Can hear it through my Arctis 7 headphones.

Wanna give this noisy old cow a long extended break when I have my new PS5 sitting beside my tv.

If next gen wasn't launching this year I'd have picked up an Xbox Series X by now just for the quieter gaming experience. 4K res is a bonus.

 

[Sinthor]

Somewhat related to next gen but I cant wait for PS5.

Just playing Red Dead 2 now and my PS4 Pro is fucking howling. Can hear it through my Arctis 7 headphones.

Wanna give this noisy old cow a long extended break when I have my new PS5 sitting beside my tv.

If next gen wasn't launching this year I'd have picked up an Xbox Series X by now just for the quieter gaming experience. 4K res is a bonus.

Good grief. People and the fan noise complaints. It hurts our eaaarses, precious!

 

[SportsFan581]

Good grief. People and the fan noise complaints. It hurts our eaaarses, precious!

I guess they weren't 360 users, my launch unit was very loud from fan noise and constant disk access.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Good grief. People and the fan noise complaints. It hurts our eaaarses, precious!

There's a solution for that.

No hearing = no fan noise.

If Van Gogh did it so can you.

 

[husomc]

Having such an emphasis on the X, makes me think there might not be a lockhart.

If they were dropping lockhart there wouldn't be a 'series' it would just be Xbox X or Xbox SX. so multiple consoles for microsoft are probably still a go

 

[Ascend]

Yes, 4.8GB/s is probably the weighted average (weighted because the Zlib data and the BCPack data aren't the same size) of the two. So BCPack is providing faster than 4.8GB/s throughput coming out of its' part of the block while Zlib is providing slower than 4.8GB/s throughput and they average at 4.8GB/s. It doesn't really matter because the end result is ~4.8GB/s while the PS5's end result is ~8.5GB/s so the gap is big no matter how you look at it. MS only has one way of narrowing the gap this late, replace the x4 1GB GDDR6 memory chips with 2GB chips, and hope the extra 4GB will help them make up for the slower SSD speed.

And kill their bandwidth in the process? Yeah... They won't do that.

And yes, the difference looks big on paper between these two, but the reason developers are talking about the SSDs of both, is because the difference between them is really not THAT important. Why? Because they are both in comparison to HDDs.

An HDD can guarantee around 50 MB/s of data. If you need to load 10GB of data into RAM from the HDD, it will take 200 seconds, or over 3 minutes.
The XSX will do the same thing in just under 2.1 seconds
The PS5 will do the same thing in just over 1 second.

So for the Xbox you're going from 3 minutes to 2 seconds
For the PS5 you're going from 3 minutes to 1 second.

And you think the difference between them is "big"? You think developers will really care enough to champion the SSD of one over the other? Who is going to complain about a 1 second difference, if before you needed 3 minutes to do the same thing?

 

[ethomaz]

I'll eat my shorts if the XSX or PS5 have better RT performance than RTX 2080Ti.

RDNA 2 RT seems inferior to nVidia RT... probably uses less silicon too.

 

[husomc]

Man, it's not just graphics, it's everything there. I've watched it several times with kids and tried to convince myself, but couldn't. It's so bad that if I watch it I feel like crying of boredom.

My opinion is that it's the worst game I've ever seen in my life, I would take Life of the Black Tiger any day.

Bo_Hazem I guess you are not a lego kind of person. Minecraft is addictive as hell. I've banned my kids from playing it. I think it's a bit like playing stupid mobile money grabber games; after a few months you'll realize WTF am I doing with my life.

 

[B_Boss]

Man, if I see kids playing Minecraft in class I pull their cellphones (well, they're not allowed to have their cellphones in class anyway), and give them a pass if it's another game

Minecraft: Graphics, gameplay, everything is just painful to look at, it might be the best tool to mind-torture a suspect to confess without physical harm by using that crap running in a loop.

But hey, it's me, and I think many share that opinion. If you like it, well, happy for you.

So long as it is stated and understood as just that lol.

 

[husomc]

CXX*👁

I hope this is not the corona taking over your brain. Get well soon

 

[THEAP99]

So what are the chances of PS5 reveal actually being in May? I remember when last winter so many insiders were certain that the PS5 would be revealed in February ,..

 

[3liteDragon]

Considering RT GI is more intensive work than shadows or reflections, I'm assuming Cerny meant a more traditional node-based GI combined with RT for artifact correction, just like the method Control is using. Regarding what he said about reflection RT, I'm assuming he meant that reflection RT is the only RT effect used without anything used at the same time except maybe sound RT because sound RT is nothing for an RT supporting GPU. Everything he said sounded very standard affair for real-time RT, that's why he ran through it really quick and moved on in like 60 seconds.


Full ray-tracing requires everything done by ray-tracing. Both consoles can't do that unless we are talking about a really old game (Quake 2 RTX) or an indy looking game (Minecraft). Full path tracing is the future, but it will probably remain the future for a good decade or so.

You mean rasterization combined with RT or is node-based GI something else?

 

[aclar00]

Yep. Same here. I also still have my launch day PS3, and it works just as well as the day that I got it. I think a lot of people became more worried about things like that because of the Xbox 360, but in reality defective launch consoles are far less common than people think.

Have both my launch PS3 and PS4 as well, though did have to pay about $100 to fix the heat sink on the 60gb PS3. Think they had an issue with the glue or something. Use to love that it has all the USB slots and media card slots. Felt like a premium machine. Weighed like one too.

 

[onQ123]

Sony Heatsink patent

Patent Public Search | USPTO

appft.uspto.gov

 

[Radical_3d]

Sony Heatsink patent

Patent Public Search | USPTO

appft.uspto.gov

OMG. Heat pipes that go through the main board? I want to see that now, Sony!!

 

[B_Boss]

OMG. Heat pipes that go through the main board? I want to see that now, Sony!!

You and me both!

 

[aclar00]

Wake me when the consoles can simultaneously do real time wind ray tracing

 

[Gamerguy84]

OMG. Heat pipes that go through the main board? I want to see that now, Sony!!

I got lost. Can you or someone give me a TLDR?

 

[onQ123]

I got lost. Can you or someone give me a TLDR?

The heatsink can go on the bottom of the chip so it can have another chip stacked on top of it then another heatsink stacked on top of the other chip for double heatsink one on each side.

[0019] This structure of the electronic equipment 1 eliminates the need for a space for a heat radiating apparatus on the upper side of the integrated circuit apparatus 5 as illustrated in FIG. 1, thus making it possible to dispose another component 9 (e.g., a transmission/reception module with an antenna and so on, a sensor, an external storage apparatus) of the electronic equipment 1 on the upper side of the integrated circuit apparatus 5 and ensuring a higher degree of freedom in laying out the component 9. In the example of the electronic equipment 1, the component 9 is disposed on the opposite side of the heatsink 21 with the circuit board 10 and the integrated circuit apparatus 5 provided therebetween. That is, the component 9 is disposed close to the upper side of the integrated circuit apparatus 5. Specifically, a distance L1 between the component 9 and the integrated circuit apparatus 5 is smaller than a height H1 of the heatsink 21. Unlike the example of the electronic equipment 1, another heat radiating apparatus may be provided on the upper surface of the integrated circuit apparatus 5. As a result, two heat radiating apparatuses are provided on the integrated circuit apparatus 5, thus providing improved cooling performance.

 

[B_Boss]

Wake me when the consoles can simultaneously do real time wind ray tracing

Scale of 1-10, how important is RT for you when considering a console?

 

[onQ123]

Sound like the I/O chip or the SSD is going to be stacked on the APU

 

[existensmaximum]

[/QUOTE]

What about minecraft it's 1080p on series x what will it be on lockhart?

Same, with no RT?

 

[existensmaximum]

Scale of 1-10, how important is RT for you when considering a console?

1

 

[Nickolaidas]

OMG. Heat pipes that go through the main board? I want to see that now, Sony!!

… I don't get it.

I mean, does Kerny believe this is better than having more CUs at clocks that do not require a fusion reactor to stay cool? I'm not being an ass, diehard Sony fanboy here, I'm legitimately wondering. Yeah, I heard his argument about higher clocks mean faster computing and the like, but … this whole thing starts to feel like a Frankenstein monster, some last resort to prevent the machine from exploding.

Or am I looking at this completely wrong?

 

[Deleted member 775630]

What about minecraft it's 1080p on series x what will it be on lockhart?

In case of minecraft you just drop the RT...

 

[onQ123]

… I don't get it.

I mean, does Kerny believe this is better than having more CUs at clocks that do not require a fusion reactor to stay cool? I'm not being an ass, diehard Sony fanboy here, I'm legitimately wondering. Yeah, I heard his argument about higher clocks mean faster computing and the like, but … this whole thing starts to feel like a Frankenstein monster, some last resort to prevent the machine from exploding.

Or am I looking at this completely wrong?

I guess you missed the part about being able to stack another chip on it

 

[John254]

… I don't get it.

I mean, does Kerny believe this is better than having more CUs at clocks that do not require a fusion reactor to stay cool? I'm not being an ass, diehard Sony fanboy here, I'm legitimately wondering. Yeah, I heard his argument about higher clocks mean faster computing and the like, but … this whole thing starts to feel like a Frankenstein monster, some last resort to prevent the machine from exploding.

Or am I looking at this completely wrong?

Nope. You are looking at it right. It's still mystery how Sony would cool their PS5. It won't be easy because of high GPU clocks and also that SSD will be hoooot.

Especially if they want to keep traditional console format and they don't want to go with same route as Microsoft (tower design)

I really wonder if it doesn't end up like Jumbo Jet PS4 Pro...

 

[Nickolaidas]

Nope. You are looking at it right. It's still mystery how Sony would cool their PS5. It won't be easy because of high GPU clocks and also that SSD will be hoooot.

Especially if they want to keep traditional console format and they don't want to go with same route as Microsoft (tower design)

I really wonder if it doesn't end up like Jumbo Jet PS4 Pro...

Cerny sure sounded - heh - sure of himself at the presentation, though. He addressed heating issues of the Pro and said that we'll be pleased with the results in the PS5.

But I can't help but wonder how much confident you are, to the point where you dealt with an overheating console, and your response in the next generation is to make an even HOTTER one!

 

[geordiemp]

… I don't get it.

I mean, does Kerny believe this is better than having more CUs at clocks that do not require a fusion reactor to stay cool? I'm not being an ass, diehard Sony fanboy here, I'm legitimately wondering. Yeah, I heard his argument about higher clocks mean faster computing and the like, but … this whole thing starts to feel like a Frankenstein monster, some last resort to prevent the machine from exploding.

Or am I looking at this completely wrong?

Is cooling both sides not better than 1 side ?

Patent was filed in May 2018.

This is planned and engineering with thought.

Your concern is touching

 

[John254]

Cerny sure sounded - heh - sure of himself at the presentation, though. He addressed heating issues of the Pro and said that we'll be pleased with the results in the PS5.

But I can't help but wonder how much confident you are, to the point where you dealt with an overheating console, and your response in the next generation is to make an even HOTTER one!

Well. He can say whatever he want (of course he wouldn't say that PS5 have problems with cooling even if that was a case. Same as Microsoft didn't say anybody about high failure rate of X360). It's final product that interests me.

Microsoft showed their cards and heat factor forced them to split the motherboard and create tower like design with APU on one side and SSD on other side to keep everything cool. If that "heat pipes going through motherboard" will be true for PS5 that will be expansive as fuck. But i guess we need to wait and see...

 

[FranXico]

Is cooling noth sides not better than 1 side ?

People are skeptical because of how convection works.

 

[geordiemp]

People are skeptical because of how convection works.

The heat in silicon is conduction, it only becomes convection when air takes the heat away from the heatsinks.

I recall the cooling arrangement picture being like a clamp arangement around the APU...this has been posted before on GAF.

A new method of cooling effectively is a big deal for CPU, GPU and APU for all suppliers if its good, and 2.23 Ghz and probably low cost suggests it is, and Cerny praising it gives us hints.

Patent filed May 2018, I am sure it has been engineered to the moon and back already.

 

[aclar00]

Scale of 1-10, how important is RT for you when considering a console?

Not particularly high, but I would chalk that up to not experience enough of it. I saw the minecraft demo and though what was done with that was significant. I'd say its similar to how i felt before i got a surround sound system for my PS2. I was blown away by the dolby prologic 5.1. Helped that i was in a small bedroom, but being able to hear footsteps behind me while playing SOCOM was amazing.

Id hope id have a similar, but slightly more tamed experience with raytracing

However, while i dont consider myself a fanboy, ive defaulted to a Playstation since '95 and will most likely get PS5 over Xbox SX

 

[aclar00]

… I don't get it.

I mean, does Kerny believe this is better than having more CUs at clocks that do not require a fusion reactor to stay cool? I'm not being an ass, diehard Sony fanboy here, I'm legitimately wondering. Yeah, I heard his argument about higher clocks mean faster computing and the like, but … this whole thing starts to feel like a Frankenstein monster, some last resort to prevent the machine from exploding.

Or am I looking at this completely wrong?

I understand what you're getting at. My assumption however is that the form factor plays a large part. MSFT went large and practical; i think Sony will go with a bit more style which will ultimately sacrifice heat dissipation. Time will tell

 

[BGs]

I hope this is not the corona taking over your brain. Get well soon

Thanks. I have had no symptoms for 5 days. At the moment I'm doing well.

 

[Radical_3d]

… I don't get it.

I mean, does Kerny believe this is better than having more CUs at clocks that do not require a fusion reactor to stay cool? I'm not being an ass, diehard Sony fanboy here, I'm legitimately wondering. Yeah, I heard his argument about higher clocks mean faster computing and the like, but … this whole thing starts to feel like a Frankenstein monster, some last resort to prevent the machine from exploding.

Or am I looking at this completely wrong?

I think you are right. Wha they are saving in die size they are more than expending that on refrigeration and SSD. I think it'll be cheaper to produce an XSX.

 

[ZywyPL]

Unless you are a developer on both systems and breaking an NDA - which I doubt you are -you can't make that claim. Your claim may prove to be true, although even if Sony's first party devs have to render at 720p30, I doubt the next-gen will finish without us having atleast some AAA built-for-RT games on PS5, GT7 almost certainly will be full RT at some resolution going by the history of how Sony Japan have used a GT game tech prototype, which the tech then gets sized for the next PlayStation.

He's 100% correct, it's not a secret how damn demanding RT is, that's why Hollywood movies use thousands of CPUs for their CGI effects, that's just how damn demanding FULL ray tracing is. What you are talking about is hybrid rendering, where SOME of the effects are ray traced, like shadows, reflection etc., while the rest of the scene is still rendered via rasterization, and that's what next-gen consoles will offer.

Could we expect PS5 Pro to reach near that level? And why GT devs were talking about 4K@240fps as well on PS5:

Gran Tursimo 7 on PS5 will be up to 240 fps but not 8K

Polyphony Digital has said that their priority is frame rate, not resolution, for the next Gran Turismo, as they aim for at least 120 fps.

metro.co.uk

That would be a huge/retarded waste of resources - how many people are there with 120Hz TVs to begin with? And even those wouldn't be able to experience the difference. 4K 240Hz TVs simply don't exist, and even if, I don't know if HDMI2.1 would be able to do the job... Let's just hope Kaz won't be able to achieve his crazy dreams.

I feel like one of the games that is going to get so much benefits is Days Gone, if they made a sequel for the PS5, Days Gone 2, that would be epic! Like....could you imagine the amount of zombies, animations, physics, gore systems, wind simulations, when they all come together and how the open-world will look and feel in that game?

Oh my! It will be CRAZY especially with that BLINDINGLY FAST SSD that PS5 has and that very powerful CPU in it as well.

Scale of 1-10, how important is RT for you when considering a console?

Considering we will have to pay for that part of the silicon, I'd say 10.

 

[xacto]

OMG. Heat pipes that go through the main board? I want to see that now, Sony!!

Is this the same patent? Inventor is the same, Shikama Kazuyuki, at Sony. There are also drawings provided.