Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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Wondering why people in here are saying things like "its OK Sony will just have to lower the resolution to compete"

Do you people not remember the slight resolution difference in 2013 making some games on XBO blurry in comparison?

FPS games were especially frustrating to play because while you were getting pretty stable frame rates it was harder to see enemies in the distance etc.

You don't want Sony to drop resolution AT ALL to compete. You would probsbly be better off with scaled back RT or particle effects or something but highest resolution possible.
 
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Can you use that thing you call a brain for a second. Good. Now let's consider 4K requires 3 x the GPU power, Higher Texture resolutions will require more ram. When you lower the need for both of these, 4TF (6TF GCN) with 12GB GDDR6 makes total sense. But neither of these will affect gameplay.

OK, you are basically telling that a 18% difference in teraflops won't be noticeable, it won't affect the gameplay and the graphics will basically be the same... Thank you for using your brain....
 
a) 2400/100 = ?
b) 5500/100 = ?

a) 24; b) 55

100 MB/s was peak


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Why even bother to reply to someone who's clearly deaf, dumb and blind
 
I'm just saying that it's ridiculous suddenly talking about ps5 and Lockhart comparison, because they are machines with different targets and different goals.
However you can compare XsX and PS5 because they are competing with same promises - 4k gaming in next gen
Fair enough. On the point of XSX/PS5 the original comment from the reply chain was talking about the bullshit tweet from the same person claiming noticeable differences due to "2TF" which in practice translates to a paltry 10-18% resolution difference. If that's his definition of noticeable ok...
Only thing, that worries me if Sony focus on SSD too much
Lets say only 1st party properly exploit it, whats wrong with that? its not as if the focus on SSD was to the detriment of other components
They still have a powerful GPU that's within spitting distance of the XSX (~18% delta).
It's legit concern, that only way that SSD will be utilised in more ways then just "making stuff load little bit faster" is 1st party devs.
Not necessarily, there can be benefits beyond loading times that don't require the game be designed around PS5 spec: Smoother LOD transitions, less/no pop in, higher quality assets come to mind.
Not saying this will necessarily be the case but its not outside the realm of possibility as these improvements wouldn't require more time investment.
 
Weird, it's almost like a GPU tasked with outputting @ 1/4 resolution wouldn't need to be as powerful. :messenger_tears_of_joy:

Your first assumption is that GPU are only there to push pixels, which in itself is a fallacy.

Besides, we're laughing at two contradictory tweets from Warren. He suggests the 2TF difference will be 'noticeable', however if we apply your logic, and GPU are only tasked to output resolution then Series X would render a frame at 2160p, while PS5 would do it at 1974p. Now, try sitting in front of your 4K screen to decipher any difference you see between a game/video file running at 4K, while the other at 1900/1800p. Unless you're super-human, you won't be able to tell a difference at those resolutions without pausing a frame and looking it through a magnifying glass. Hence, unless devs are harnessing the Series X extra GPU capability to push anything but pixels, differences won't be 'noticeable' to a naked eye like Warren was asserting in March.
 
Does anyone think that Hellblade II is a major loss to PlayStation? Does anyone think that it was cheap of Microsoft to make it exclusive even though the first one was multiplatform?

Well I can't help but to remember Spence's words a time ago:

"Do I wish I had an owned IP [intellectual property] first-party action adventure game?" said Spencer. "Absolutely. But I don't right now. This is one that fits well."...

..."I'm a big fan of Uncharted," said Spencer, "and I wish we had an action adventure game of that ilk.

Sometimes it's just a good strategic decision 🍻. I'm not too sure if it's a major loss but I honestly wouldn't know lol. Do we know if HB2 is a timed or perma-sclusive?

(source: https://venturebeat.com/2014/08/18/xbox-boss-on-uncharted/)
 
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Wondering why people in here are saying things like "its OK Sony will just have to lower the resolution to compete"

Do you people not remember the slight resolution difference in 2013 making some games on XBO blurry in comparison?

FPS games were especially frustrating to play because while you were getting pretty stable frame rates it was harder to see enemies in the distance etc.

You don't want Sony to drop resolution AT ALL to compete. You would probsbly be better off with scaled back RT or particle effects or something but highest resolution possible.

At 720p yes,

at 2160p60 vs 2000p60 which is 15 % your embarrassing your knowledge base

 
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Wondering why people in here are saying things like "its OK Sony will just have to lower the resolution to compete"

Do you people not remember the slight resolution difference in 2013 making some games on XBO blurry in comparison?

FPS games were especially frustrating to play because while you were getting pretty stable frame rates it was harder to see enemies in the distance etc.

You don't want Sony to drop resolution AT ALL to compete. You would probsbly be better off with scaled back RT or particle effects or something but highest resolution possible.
Because that was below 1080p. U won't notice a difference from 2160p to 1940p .they both extremely sharp
 
Your first assumption is that GPU are only there to push pixels, which in itself is a fallacy.

Besides, we're laughing at two contradictory tweets from Warren. He suggests the 2TF difference will be 'noticeable', however if we apply your logic, and GPU are only tasked to output resolution then Series X would render a frame at 2160p, while PS5 would do it at 1974p. Now, try sitting in front of your 4K screen to decipher any difference you see between a game/video file running at 4K, while the other at 1900/1800p. Unless you're super-human, you won't be able to tell a difference at those resolutions without pausing a frame and looking it through a magnifying glass. Hence, unless devs are harnessing the Series X extra GPU capability to push anything but pixels, differences won't be 'noticeable' to a naked eye like Warren was asserting in March.

Thank you for explaining this, I wanted to but I didn't feel like it. It's just boring at this point
 
Did you guys see the windowscentral article quoting MS execs and first party devs all of a sudden talking about and bigging up their I/O solution? I swear their PR has been on point. I am not even upset. They saw Sony talk about I/O and SSD, and quickly pivoted their messaging to show how they have also done a lot of custom enhancements to get rid of the bottlenecks in the I/O.

As a Sony fan baffled by the messaging by Sony, its refreshing to see a company react so fast and cover all their bases. I am not even sure if their I/O is just as good as Sony's but it sure reads like it, and if they can fool me then they can convince most casual observers that their velocity architecture is doing everything that Cerny's solution is doing.

10 out of 10 for messaging, but my god it is so obvious and transparent what they are doing lol. they simply will not let Sony have any advantage whatsoever. They have no shame.

Sony will let the games do the talking. And in my opinion, that's a better strategy.

We are already hearing reports who apparently knows devs in the industry (moores law is dead) saying it's actually the xsex that is struggling with resolution and not the PS5. After the Crytek dev speaking about the efficiency of PS5, honestly I do think it is possible.

But of course, we will only know for sure when the game comes and we see for ourselves.
 
There is a silent hill insider on RE who is hinting at ps5 event also being May.

So we might get both events in May🥳🥳🥳:


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i think sony goes second. they are most likely waiting for MS to reveal their $499 and $299 consoles. They are also probably keeping some secrets to make sure MS doesnt ape them like they tried to with this new focus on I/O and SSD. MS somehow knew about variable clocks because they specifically talked about fixed clocks at their reveal. I think thats why sony is being so secretive, they are probably sick of MS PR one upping them all the time.

I think they know that the Series X is probably not a $499 console either. It might be $599 thanks to the bigger silicon die, more expensive ram and cooling solution. Cerny specifically talked about his cooling solution being inexpensive. even bloomberg said it was only a few dollars. much lower than the $20-30 penello hinted at for the vapor chamber cooling. I think Sony might be prepping either a $399 console if Series X is $499 or a $449 console if the series x is $599 and lockhart is $399.
 
At 720p yes,

at 2160p60 vs 2000p60 which is 15 % your embarrassing your knowledge base


Because that was below 1080p. U won't notice a difference from 2160p to 1940p .they both extremely sharp

True!

But with tons of RT, vegetation, and crazy effects all over the place who knows how it will affect image clarity in the long run..

The 900p blurriness wasn't THAT bad and people got used to it but it was still annoying and every time it was pointed out in a comparison video it did bother people even though it wasn't a massive difference.

Even though it wasn't a massive difference it was still enough to sway people from one camp to another.

Then again if devs reduced RT, vegetation, particle effects, etc to keep resolution parity we would be dealing with grass/puddle gate all over again.

Kind of feels like lose/lose situation if you put it that way.
 
i think sony goes second. they are most likely waiting for MS to reveal their $499 and $299 consoles. They are also probably keeping some secrets to make sure MS doesnt ape them like they tried to with this new focus on I/O and SSD. MS somehow knew about variable clocks because they specifically talked about fixed clocks at their reveal. I think thats why sony is being so secretive, they are probably sick of MS PR one upping them all the time.

I think they know that the Series X is probably not a $499 console either. It might be $599 thanks to the bigger silicon die, more expensive ram and cooling solution. Cerny specifically talked about his cooling solution being inexpensive. even bloomberg said it was only a few dollars. much lower than the $20-30 penello hinted at for the vapor chamber cooling. I think Sony might be prepping either a $399 console if Series X is $499 or a $449 console if the series x is $599 and lockhart is $399.

I think it's possible Sony just honestly isn't ready yet. Could be that simple.
 
Sony will let the games do the talking. And in my opinion, that's a better strategy.

We are already hearing reports who apparently knows devs in the industry (moores law is dead) saying it's actually the xsex that is struggling with resolution and not the PS5. After the Crytek dev speaking about the efficiency of PS5, honestly I do think it is possible.

But of course, we will only know for sure when the game comes and we see for ourselves.
Actually, the exact words that it's actually the XSX is the console that will struggle with resolution. That implies that they are presuming it and haven't actually tested it. Most likely they're wrong too.
 
So if the only diference between XSX and XSS is resolution then the difference between between PS5 and XSX wil 2160 vs 1930p.


So you will need to go to DF to see the difference. Also is very probably PS5 will have better textures, scenarios and model because SSD bandwidth.

If you say is wrong well go with the Devs a tell them they are wrong.
 
Lets say only 1st party properly exploit it, whats wrong with that? its not as if the focus on SSD was to the detriment of other components
They still have a powerful GPU that's within spitting distance of the XSX (~18% delta).
Nothing, i expect them to produce great games as always. Unless it forces Sony to sell PS5 at higher price. Console design is always about cost effectiveness vs. power
 
OK, you are basically telling that a 18% difference in teraflops won't be noticeable, it won't affect the gameplay and the graphics will basically be the same... Thank you for using your brain....
I'm not saying the graphics would be the same, I said the texture resolution and the resolution would be different. Most likely, RT quality would be lowered as well. It's common sense.
 
Wondering why people in here are saying things like "its OK Sony will just have to lower the resolution to compete"

Do you people not remember the slight resolution difference in 2013 making some games on XBO blurry in comparison?

FPS games were especially frustrating to play because while you were getting pretty stable frame rates it was harder to see enemies in the distance etc.

You don't want Sony to drop resolution AT ALL to compete. You would probsbly be better off with scaled back RT or particle effects or something but highest resolution possible.
CoD Ghosts was running at 720p vs 1080p. thats literally half the resolution.

Battlefield was also running at 720p. though it was running at 900p (50% more pixels) on the ps5.

Titanfall ran at 768p. Those are extremely low resolutions. and around 50% more pixels on the pro. With next gen, we will have PS5 games running reconstruction techniques to hit 4k anyway. it's not going to be a case where games are running at 50-100% fewer pixels. the tflops gap between the two consoles is 18% which is basically what you are going to see. you might see both consoles use checkerboarding for next gen games with MS pushing around 5-6 more frames per second for a more stable performance in 60 fps games. thats far more noticeable than any resolution when you are checkerboarding everything anyway.
 
Fair enough. On the point of XSX/PS5 the original comment from the reply chain was talking about the bullshit tweet from the same person claiming noticeable differences due to "2TF" which in practice translates to a paltry 10-18% resolution difference. If that's his definition of noticeable ok...

Lets say only 1st party properly exploit it, whats wrong with that? its not as if the focus on SSD was to the detriment of other components
They still have a powerful GPU that's within spitting distance of the XSX (~18% delta).

Not necessarily, there can be benefits beyond loading times that don't require the game be designed around PS5 spec: Smoother LOD transitions, less/no pop in, higher quality assets come to mind.
Not saying this will necessarily be the case but its not outside the realm of possibility as these improvements wouldn't require more time investment.
Of course. Thats why we are here speculating. Nobody knows for sure. But history with consoles is telling us that everything out of ordinary is usualy ignored by devs - Cell CPU, ESRAM in XOne
 
OK, you are basically telling that a 18% difference in teraflops won't be noticeable, it won't affect the gameplay and the graphics will basically be the same... Thank you for using your brain....

On the Other hand both XSX and Lockhart have faster CPU's then the PS5 so for CPU intense games Lockhart appears to be the far superior console...

No I'm not serious
 
Actually, the exact words that it's actually the XSX is the console that will struggle with resolution. That implies that they are presuming it and haven't actually tested it. Most likely they're wrong too.

It looks like the only way we'll really know for sure is when the games start to be shown. These paper specs surely doesn't tell us about efficiency.
 
The arguments over future technology nobody posting has direct physical access to continues.

Can we hit 2000 pages before we actually have real information or physical hardware or examples of games beyond trailers? With how these battles are raging, me thinks yes.
 
:messenger_tears_of_joy:
An intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.
There's no strawman. Since it apparently went way over your head...

A comparison between two things, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification.

Don't use terms you don't understand.
 
People pretty much ignore the problems that PS360 faced. They could only count with terrible 'upscale' technique. Today we have dynamic resolution, checkerboard render, temporal injection, reconstruct technique, DLSS, AI deep learning.
 
I'm not saying the graphics would be the same, I said the texture resolution and the resolution would be different. Most likely, RT quality would be lowered as well. It's common sense.

Raytracing on a 500 $ console? I mean it's hard for graphic cards that cost $1500 alone

If you really expect Ray Tracing to be a big thing on this consoles, you are in for failure.....

But sure full raytracing at 4K resolution seems right on the money on Xbox Series X...

LOL
 
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3rd parties will actually use PC or lockhart SSD a lowest denominator. Maybe draw a line at 500MBs. And on XsX/PS5 use extra speed for textures.
If lockart exists it will have the same speed as the xsx ssd, that will become the baseline for next gen
I assume next gen only games will minimum require a 1GB/s SSD and use a large DDR4 buffer to make up for the inferior SSD speeds. It no different than requiring new GPUs or more VRAM
 
It looks like the only way we'll really know for sure is when the games start to be shown. These paper specs surely doesn't tell us about efficiency.
That is definitely true. The PS5 will likely be more efficient in terms of power consumption and have more efficient memory allocation (i.e. less RAM usage to achieve the same thing). The rest... I don't see it outperforming the XSX. I can always be wrong. Slim chance in my view, but hey. You never know.
 
So, you think that it's a loss? I haven't played the first one, but I think that its gameplay and graphics are meh based on walkthroughs that I've seen on YouTube.
It sold poorly on PS5 and PC, and even poorer when it came to Xbox. It's a good average game with impressive graphics for an indie, but all of a sudden it was promoted to AAA by Xbox fanboys after MS bought the studio.
 
CoD Ghosts was running at 720p vs 1080p. thats literally half the resolution.

Battlefield was also running at 720p. though it was running at 900p (50% more pixels) on the ps5.

Titanfall ran at 768p. Those are extremely low resolutions. and around 50% more pixels on the pro. With next gen, we will have PS5 games running reconstruction techniques to hit 4k anyway. it's not going to be a case where games are running at 50-100% fewer pixels. the tflops gap between the two consoles is 18% which is basically what you are going to see. you might see both consoles use checkerboarding for next gen games with MS pushing around 5-6 more frames per second for a more stable performance in 60 fps games. thats far more noticeable than any resolution when you are checkerboarding everything anyway.

No, most engines lock frame rate and dymamic resolution for the dips, its 2020.

You will have to freeze frame and get out your magnifying glass

I dont give a crap, I play on OLED C7 and cant see jack shit past 1440p. I only notice frame rate and HDR implementation.
 
Of course. Thats why we are here speculating. Nobody knows for sure. But history with consoles is telling us that everything out of ordinary is usualy ignored by devs - Cell CPU, ESRAM in XOne
I agree, i don't expect massive difference in multi-platform design just things like those i listed that essentially come free with the faster I/O its not as if devs have to optimize their code further to tap into the extra speed.
 
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If lockart exists it will have the same speed as the xsx ssd, that will become the baseline for next gen
I assume next gen only games will minimum require a 1GB/s SSD and use a large DDR4 buffer to make up for the inferior SSD speeds. It no different than requiring new GPUs or more VRAM

Has there ever been a game released that specifically required a new GPU? You may drop some old GPUs from your supported list, but not supporting the popular GPUs in the last few series is off the table. Probably the glass ceiling will be a bit lower on the SSDs, I can't see them eliminating users running SATA variants just yet. That's not to say that you can't make good use of the faster drives in the consoles, I just wouldn't expect third-party devs to jump straight into building worlds that require a 2-3GB/s load every time you turn around. They may use that much at the highest settings, but not as a minimum requirement.
 
CoD Ghosts was running at 720p vs 1080p. thats literally half the resolution.

Battlefield was also running at 720p. though it was running at 900p (50% more pixels) on the ps5.

Titanfall ran at 768p. Those are extremely low resolutions. and around 50% more pixels on the pro. With next gen, we will have PS5 games running reconstruction techniques to hit 4k anyway. it's not going to be a case where games are running at 50-100% fewer pixels. the tflops gap between the two consoles is 18% which is basically what you are going to see. you might see both consoles use checkerboarding for next gen games with MS pushing around 5-6 more frames per second for a more stable performance in 60 fps games. thats far more noticeable than any resolution when you are checkerboarding everything anyway.

Sorry you are totally correct... I was thinking it was more 900p vs 1080p but it was 720p. Wow that's crazy haha

I found this quote from the dev about the xbox one version:

"It's very possible we can get it to native 1080p [resolution]. I mean I've seen it working at 1080p native. It's just we couldn't get the frame rate in the neighborhood we wanted it to be. And it wasn't a lack of effort. It wasn't that it was like last minute. We had the theoretical hardware for a long time. That's the thing you get pretty quickly and that doesn't change dramatically."

Do you really think both consoles will be using a lot of checkerboarding? I thought we were supposed to be moving away from those types of crutches next gen... native 4k 60fps and theoretical 8k (There I could see checkerboarding I guess)
 
There's no strawman. Since it apparently went way over your head...
Really? :)

It is a stupid strawman since you did not quote me to talk about what Jason Schreier said or meant but used an off topic analogy to try to make a "point" to discredit his words. That is the reality here.

I just gave you the definition, read it again:

STRAWMAN:
An intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.
 
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Sony will let the games do the talking. And in my opinion, that's a better strategy.

We are already hearing reports who apparently knows devs in the industry (moores law is dead) saying it's actually the xsex that is struggling with resolution and not the PS5. After the Crytek dev speaking about the efficiency of PS5, honestly I do think it is possible.

But of course, we will only know for sure when the game comes and we see for ourselves.

Moore's Law Is Dead honestly isn't too reliable when it comes to impartial next-gen discussions. In their next-gen analysis video they made some very dumb assumptions about XSX design decisions, such as them going with 320-bit bus because they were "technically unable" to go 384-bit, implying it was beyond the team's technical abilities, when only moments prior he said that a larger chip means bigger costs, and a 384-bit memory bus requires a bigger chip than a 320-bit one.

So I immediately gave them the side-eye when they made that assumption on XSX memory bus set-up instead of something that'd agree with what he literally mentioned moments earlier, i.e a smaller memory bus to save on production costs. By his logic the PS5 must've been a failure of design since it has an even smaller memory bus (256-bit), but interestingly he made no such brash assumptions there :pie_thinking:

Anyway on the aspect of resolution, I honestly don't see how it would be too difficult for devs to hit higher resolutions on XSX unless they are inexperienced with programming for larger GPUs. But the thing is, GPUs are parallel technologies at their foundation, so even without targeted developer input I'd assume the GPUs tend to saturate as much of their hardware as possible with automated processing tasks. So unless a developer is intentionally limiting their GPU programming to only a smaller portion of the chip, I'd have a hard time believing there's any serious struggling by devs to hit high resolutions on XSX.

Also with the Crytek guy, FWIW he had to redact that interview and it'd seem he was only involved in mobile-side development, with no devkit access on his end. So everything should be taken with a grain of salt, similar with the recent interview stuff by Chris and Optimus; even that Matt ex-engineer guy, you have to take what they say with grains of salt because of COURSE they're going to focus on hyping up the positives of what they worked on (and from what I've seen, they're a tad too touchy when deciding to mute certain people simply for having some constructive questions on certain things). You shouldn't be taking 100% of what these people are saying as gospel.

PS5 has a fillrate advantage, for example, due to the faster GPU clock, but does that necessarily bear the major influence on resolution? No, not really. There's other factors into that, obviously. But if you're turning to devs (past, present etc.) absolutely, that's...probably not the best approach to take.

Has there ever been a game released that specifically required a new GPU? You may drop some old GPUs from your supported list, but not supporting the popular GPUs in the last few series is off the table. Probably the glass ceiling will be a bit lower on the SSDs, I can't see them eliminating users running SATA variants just yet. That's not to say that you can't make good use of the faster drives in the consoles, I just wouldn't expect third-party devs to jump straight into building worlds that require a 2-3GB/s load every time you turn around. They may use that much at the highest settings, but not as a minimum requirement.

Also not every game is going to need to transfer or stream data from storage at the level of the next-gen SSDs. It all really comes down to how the game is programmed and how its engine functions.

Does anyone think that Hellblade II is a major loss to PlayStation? Does anyone think that it was cheap of Microsoft to make it exclusive even though the first one was multiplatform?

How can this be realistically answered at this time? No one knows yet. The game's still in early development, and only the dev team's been playing it. It could be a dud (I highly doubt that), it could be great, it could be amazing, or it could even be industry-defining. Reality is, no one knows yet.

I like keeping optimistic on game quality outlooks, though, so it should be pretty dang good at very least. Looking at it from the context of "was it a loss for PlayStation" doesn't make a lot of sense to me; I don't care if it's a loss to them or not. I don't care if Insomniac is a loss to MS or not. Let the chips fall where they may and just hope for the best for these studios at their new homes.
 
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Has there ever been a game released that specifically required a new GPU? You may drop some old GPUs from your supported list, but not supporting the popular GPUs in the last few series is off the table. Probably the glass ceiling will be a bit lower on the SSDs, I can't see them eliminating users running SATA variants just yet. That's not to say that you can't make good use of the faster drives in the consoles, I just wouldn't expect third-party devs to jump straight into building worlds that require a 2-3GB/s load every time you turn around. They may use that much at the highest settings, but not as a minimum requirement.
Every next gen only game 2014 on wards had PS4 tier or better GPU as min system requirements, VRAM requirements were also raised. Remember the 2GB VRAM is fine and will last you the whole gen rhetoric?
Console GPUs & SSDs will become the base spec requirements. You of course can run with lower hardware on PC but performance and game not breaking are not guaranteed. Crossgen will support SATA SSDs and possibly HHDs but next gen only games will require a combination of faster SSDs and more RAM to match consoles.

PCs have vast amounts of DDR4 memory to act as a buffer. For example a 1GB/s SSD coupled with 20-24GB would be enough. 500MB/s SSDs might need a 32GB DDR4 buffer to match the XSX I/O output if you have that you gucci.
 
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I would rather Sony let MS goes all out with huge reveal with games, XSX, XSS...etc

Then:

They simply show a silhouette of PS5 design and steal all MS momentum 🤣

The internet is literally going to melt once Sony reveals the console itself.

How much of that momentum do you think will be sustainable though once people realize there is no Spiderman 2, horizon zero dawn 2, God of War 2, Bloodborne 2, Uncharted 5, or gran turismo?

If Sony leads the launch games reveal with Godfall and enhanced versions of The Last of US 2 and Ghosts of Tsushima which people will have already played by this holiday people may very quickly lose interest.

I am sort of expecting a new Ratchet and Clank or Jak and Daxter title though... I do hope that happens at launch.
 
Do you really think both consoles will be using a lot of checkerboarding? I thought we were supposed to be moving away from those types of crutches next gen... native 4k 60fps and theoretical 8k (There I could see checkerboarding I guess)
I am opinion is very possible to see reconstruction techniques in both sides, the devs always want push the limits of any console hardware and now this techniques are
better than before just imagine a version of DLSS for Xbox and PS, use all its power to render something in 1440p and the use that technique to show it in 4k.

Also the 60 fps is not necessary a general rule, the sales for games are not better if the games have a higher framerate so the publisher will not push their studios to do it and
for me this okay if the Dev wants 60 fps great but if they want 30 fps in order to show a much detail world also great.
 
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