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[Insane Metal]

The heatsink can go on the bottom of the chip so it can have another chip stacked on top of it then another heatsink stacked on top of the other chip for double heatsink one on each side.

Oh, it's from that image from last year. So it really IS PS5's stuff.

Patent Images

 

[BluRayHiDef]

I'm a Hellblade fan. I think Ninja Theory is a high caliber studio. Except that silly mulitiplayer game that just came out, gamepass fodder.

So, you think that it's a loss? I haven't played the first one, but I think that its gameplay and graphics are meh based on walkthroughs that I've seen on YouTube.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

 

[Evilms]

Like I said you guys are using strawmen and pretend ignorance to defend PS5.

That's how you want to roll, that's ok I guess.

But it ain't me doing damage control.

Don't pretend not to understand, he clearly says that the Lockhart with 4TF will have no impact on game design on XseX, but the PS5 with 10TF of power would be a problem and the difference will be noticeable with the XesX because the difference of 2TF is important while 8TF is not.

Or maybe you suddenly have difficulties to read its messages ?

 

[DaMonsta]

Some people have convinced themselves that console development exists inside a bubble. Never mind the fact that these games are built on PC (with 95% of them playable on PC) before being packaged up for the different consoles.

Yup this is exactly what they do.

You bring logic and reality to the conversation they put their fingers in their ears and just circle jerk whatever narrative they are pushing at the time.

Then they never return to back up their words against facts and logic. Look at Shunter.

He made some outrageous claims. I addressed them with real facts and he just started posting memes and cracking jokes. Smh

 

[IntentionalPun]

The difference between PS5 GPU and XSX GPU COULD be significant this gen, but 2TF doesn't really tell the picture.

- Far more CUs will have some advantages for XSX
- Fairly significant clock advantage will have some advantages for Sony

How significant either of these differences will be depends on who you ask.

You guys spend WAY TOO MUCH FUCKING TIME babbling about how someone is or isn't biased. Argue for or against their opinion and move on. Instead BY FAR the most popular topics here are "spend 50 posts shitting on Xbox fanboy #254."

Jesus fucking christ, your Toy sells like twice what the other toy does, why do you guys care so much about the other toy's fanboys? They aren't going to actually have a material effect on the sales of your favorite toy, and I know that's all you guys actually care about. That and instagram likes should keep you happy right?

 

[Neo Blaster]

So, can we expect something on May 7th ?

 

[The Mad Draklor]

Microsoft has talked extensively about their customizations.

The only one "hand waving" is you.

So what did Microsoft do to address the bottlenecks of memory mapping, file I/O, and check-in? If Microsoft has talked extensively, you should be able to answer this question instantly. Give me a breakdown of the XSX's I/O if you're so confident.

Again. They are both ~1000x faster than last gen.

And one is over 100% faster in terms of raw bandwidth. Handwaving this difference isn't going to make that untrue.

When you claim the PS5 and SeX SSDs are a generation apart you are not considered that "percent delta"

This sentence doesn't even make sense. Not to mention this is strawman. Point to the specific part of my comment where I said that the SSD's are a generation apart.

50% more storage speed is nowhere near the same as 50% more GPU power.

It's over 100% more storage speed in terms of raw bandwidth and ~17% more teraflops. Make comparisons based on actual numbers, at hand, not made up ones.

For example from last gen to next. The GPU power has only gone up about 5x while the storage speed has gone up 1000x

Storage speeds will have larger impacts on game design such as asset quality, world size, and level design. A larger teraflop GPU will not improve those aspects. The GPU is there to make calculations. Asset quality, world size, and level design are dependent on the size of the RAM pool, its bandwidth, memory management, and storage-to-RAM transfer speeds.

Two very different technologies with very different number and goals.

And one will provide a greater impact on game design more than the other. I will immediately notice a more detailed image over a less detailed image as opposed to a native 4K vs. 1900p image.

I said nothing about load times.

Hence I said "if" in case you wanted to rebut with that argument.

For years devs have figured out how to optimize for drives that are 1000x slower than what's in the next gen systems. They will find a way to deal with SSDs that are slower than the one in PS5.

That will be more of a problem with the XSX if we go by the State of Decay demo. 10 seconds of loading of a not so graphically intensive game and it still suffers from texture pop-in. As a result, developers will need to take the time to improve the loading times and remove the pop-in.

In contrast, the PS5 utilizes more akin to a "it just works" solution. As Cerny stated in his GDC talk, developers just need to indicate what uncompressed file the system needs to read and where to place it in memory. As a result, developers don't need to learn how to take advantage of the PS5's SSD and I/O as the system does much of the work for them. They can optimize even further if they want to, for example, if they want to improve the compression ratio with Kraken, but they don't have to.

To claim otherwise is delusional.

The only one who is delusional is the one that has not even made a direct rebuttal to the counterarguments put forth. If much of the PS5's SSD and I/O benefits are automatically exploitable, then all developers don't even need to spend time to learn how to achieve the high speeds.

 

[Shmunter]

So, you think that it's a loss? I haven't played the first one, but I think that its gameplay and graphics are meh based on walkthroughs that I've seen on YouTube.

Yes it's a loss to ps gamers. Finished Hellblade on PRO. Simple gameplay with basic combat, but the tale, the atmosphere and the overall work is praiseworthy, including the visuals.

 

[FranXico]

So, can we expect something on May 7th ?

Lockhart reveal, I guess.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Again. They are both ~1000x faster than last gen.

When you claim the PS5 and SeX SSDs are a generation apart you are not considering that "percent delta"

50% more storage speed is nowhere near the same as 50% more GPU power.

For example from last gen to next. The GPU power has only gone up about 5x while the storage speed has gone up 1000x

But there isn't 50% more speed in the PS5, there's 129.1% more speed.
The jump in storage speed is 1000% for Xbox and 2100% for PS5.

Yes it's true they are both much faster than before, but such a big delta will mean something whether you like it or not. More thank likely the bigger differences will be in exclusives so nothing changes for those who never intended to get a PS5, that's for sure.

 

[DaMonsta]

Don't pretend not to understand, he clearly says that the Lockhart with 4TF will have no impact on game design on XseX, but the PS5 with 10TF of power would be a problem and the difference will be noticeable with the XesX because the difference of 2TF is important while 8TF is not.

Or maybe you suddenly have difficulties to read its messages ?

Again two different concepts

"Will not impact game design"

Is not the same as

"There will be a perceptible difference"

I don't think anyone has called the difference between PS5 and SeX GPU "a problem"

But again, you knew all this, but decided feigning ignorance would help you push your narrative.

 

[sinnergy]

Never heard my One X blow hard or harder in game menus , it has no smart shift ! What does this mean?

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Lockhart reveal, I guess.

I think it may be more then just that

 

[Shmunter]

Never heard my One X blow hard or harder in game menus , it has no smart shift ! What does this mean?

Small lung capacity?

 

[Fake]

Lockhart reveal, I guess.

Sony maybe reveal something in may as well.

 

[FranXico]

I think it may be more then just that

Alright. Looking to watching and buying both...

 

[DaMonsta]

But there isn't 50% more speed in the PS5, there's 129.1% more speed.
The jump in storage speed is 1000% for Xbox and 2100% for PS5.

Yes it's true they are both much faster than before, but such a big delta will mean something whether you like it or not. More thank likely the bigger differences will be in exclusives so nothing changes for those who never intended to get a PS5, that's for sure.

Admittedly my numbers were wrong, but your math here is even worse.

 

[Agnostic2020]

Whats happening ? Ur new batch of meth is gonna hit the market ? Is it your x series batch or the 5th batch ? ❤

 

[FranXico]

Whats happening ? Ur new patch of meth is gonna hit the market ? Is it your x series patch or the 5th patch ? ❤

ALL OF THE ABOVE

 

[Fun Fanboy]

Lockhart baby.

 

[Evilms]

Again two different concepts

"Will not impact game design"

Is not the same as

"There will be a perceptible difference"

I don't think anyone has called the difference between PS5 and SeX GPU "a problem"

But again, you knew all this, but decided feigning ignorance would help you push your narrative.

I like your blindness

 

[Agnostic2020]

Lockhart baby.

He is saying more than that . What does that mean ?

 

[Darius87]

Both the PS5 and SeX SSD is ~1000x faster than last gen. That's a generation ahead.

a thousand?
PS5 to PS4 5500mb/s / 50mb to 100mb/s = 55 to 110 times faster.
Series X to Xbox one / 2400mb/s / 50mb to 100mb/s = 24 to 48 times faster.

The fact that PS5 is "double the speed" of SeX doesn't matter as much as the jump from last gen to next.

for ps5 it does matter because it was designed for different purposes then series x ssd, no pc ssd does or will do things like PS5 ssd will do.
ps5 ssd speed is more then double i've never seen past 2 gens that some part has over 100% advantage over competition.

Your argument is like saying SeX GPU is a "generation ahead" of PS5 cause 2TF was a huge gulf in power ~8 years ago.
SeX GPU advantage over PS5 is more than an entire PS4.

that would be correct if we would be playing at 720p res but now we're at 4k which makes these difference negligible.

 

[DaMonsta]

I like your blindness

Even Ray Charles can see the SeX will outperform the PS5.

 

[The Mad Draklor]

Even Ray Charles can see the SeX will outperform the PS5.

In terms of ALU performance. In terms of asset detail? Doubtful.

 

[DaMonsta]

a thousand?
PS5 to PS4 5500mb/s / 50mb to 100mb/s = 55 to 110 times faster.
Series X to Xbox one / 2400mb/s / 50mb to 100mb/s = 24 to 48 times faster.

No you got this wrong. Sorry

for ps5 it does matter because it was designed for different purposes then series x ssd, no pc ssd does or will do things like PS5 ssd will do.
ps5 ssd speed is more then double i've never seen past 2 gens that some part has over 100% advantage over competition.

Lol, no. PS5 SSD will do the same thing any other SSD will do. Just faster.

that would be correct if we would be playing at 720p res but now we're at 4k which makes these difference negligible.

Even at 4K the differences will be apparent. Aging we have cards with similar performance deltas to compare right now.

 

[ZywyPL]

He believes that a gap of 2TF could therefore be discernible as we move into the next generation.

Well, historically the longer into the generation the worse the performance gets, with PS3/X360 being the longest generation ever where the games during the last few years run at constant 24-26FPS, that extra power migh indeed com in handy to maintain steady FPS.

On the other hand the lockhart with 4TF will have no impact and will not be a burden for the XSX despite the 8Tflops that separate them.

Except Lockhart won't be a 4Tf 4K console...

Yes it's a loss to ps gamers. Finished Hellblade on PRO. Simple gameplay with basic combat, but the tale, the atmosphere and the overall work is praiseworthy, including the visuals.

Well, on a contrary, Sony has no Insomniac, who made Sunset Overdrive, which is universally acclaimed title, basically one of the best exclusives XB1 ever had, so most likely there won't be any sequels to that one.

 

[kareemna]

It would be great if we had some actual answers right now.

The one thing I can say comparing this gen to last is that both have done a way better job at controlling the narrative in the lead up to release.

Can't wait to see some games.

Yup posted on this tweet about the excitement for the games, which we havent seen any yet except for what? two?

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Just saw Phil's Tweet. Looks like we're about to see games!

 

[The Mad Draklor]

No you got this wrong. Sorry

Use a calculator if you're that sure he's wrong.

Lol, no. PS5 SSD will do the same thing any other SSD will do. Just faster.

Ah, I see how you're completely ignoring how the SSD and I/O benefits are something developer don't even need to think about, to paraphrase Cerny.

Even at 4K the differences will be apparent. Aging we have cards with similar performance deltas to compare right now.

See Hardware Unboxed's video on Radeon Image Sharpening. If 1800p with RIS can look like native 4K (and the difference between 1800p and native 4K is a bigger difference between 12 TF vs. 10.3 TF), then no, the differences will not be apparent.

 

[Mr Moose]

Even Ray Charles can see the SeX will outperform the PS5.

Is Ray Charles Stevie Wonders alter ego?

 

[Thirty7ven]

Admittedly my numbers were wrong, but your math here is even worse.

The number for the HDD was unrealistic I admit. I'll just pick up on the max as explained in the road for PS5.

As the computer says:

100 MB/s to 2400 MB/s - 2400% increase, to 5500 MB/S - 5400%
2400 MB/s to 5500 MB/s - 129.1% increase
10.28 TF to 12.1 TF - 17.7% increase

There, nice and tidy.

 

[FranXico]

Lol, no. PS5 SSD will do the same thing any other SSD will do. Just faster.

LOL

 

[icerock]

Looks like we're few weeks away from seeing a next-gen blowout. Show me that Perfect Dark you've been working on

 

[Fun Fanboy]

So, can we expect something on May 7th ?

You should tweet to Tim. Or Dealer. Or Jez or Rand. They know more than people here about Xbox stuff!

He is saying more than that . What does that mean ?

If I had to guess. More info on the big boy too. The series X. I'm still guessing game stuff is June from the chatter on Twitter.

 

[Thirty7ven]

No you got this wrong. Sorry

You said my Math was bad but you can't even multiply? Just do the numbers on the PC, don't try that paper napkin thing.

 

[Great Hair]

2400 MB/s to 5500 MB/s - 229.1% increase
10.28 TF to 12.1 TF - 17.7% increase

FTFY

 

[Agnostic2020]

You should tweet to Tim. Or Dealer. Or Jez or Rand. They know more than people here about Xbox stuff!

If I had to guess. More info on the big boy too. The series X. I'm still guessing game stuff is June from the chatter on Twitter.

Yea makes sense. so in 2 weeks more info on xss and xsx games

 

[Thirty7ven]

FTFY

Dude, no.

 

[The Mad Draklor]

FTFY

5500 - 2400 / 2400 = 3100 / 2400 = 1.29 = 129%

 

[BluRayHiDef]

Yes it's a loss to ps gamers. Finished Hellblade on PRO. Simple gameplay with basic combat, but the tale, the atmosphere and the overall work is praiseworthy, including the visuals.

Well, I have PC. So, yea.

 

[Great Hair]

2400 MB = 100%
5500 MB = 229%

5500/2400*100 = 229%
129 + 100 = 229%
your outgoing is always 100% (basis), and not 0%.

2400 = 100%
5500 = ? it´s 2.29x100 = 229%

 

[Saberus]

Never heard my One X blow hard or harder in game menus , it has no smart shift ! What does this mean?

Guess that why it's pure SeX

 

[Metroiddarks]

Even Ray Charles can see the SeX will outperform the PS5.

Define outperform because yeah exists a delta in favor or Xbox in GPU around 20% , this translate to resolution will be 2160p vs 1930p
(Yes a I am sure is a very noticeable difference), I say resolution because if the makes more changes like in LOD or textures or better
RT then the lockhart version will suffers to run the same game.

But in other hand one SSD can load data the double of fast which now according to the same Tom is the main difference and
according to the article of Windows Central are talking about all the details now they can introduce .

Both machines has its advantages, why is so hard to understand, if not was in this way any of the companies already would have declared a victory in graphics.

And is not like Xbox can optimize all in low level for use its 54 CUs without comprises, the same game needs to run in lockhart and pc which have many
configurations. And for the first two years they also be sure works in an old Xbox one hardware.

Note: the delta of TF are just theoretical cap if the system has no bottlenecks the SSD delta is not.

 

[DaMonsta]

So what did Microsoft do to address the bottlenecks of memory mapping, file I/O, and check-in? If Microsoft has talked extensively, you should be able to answer this question instantly. Give me a breakdown of the XSX's I/O if you're so confident.

Go read. There's plenty of info out there. No need for me to feed it to you

And one is over 100% faster in terms of raw bandwidth. Handwaving this difference isn't going to make that untrue.

Context matters. This convo started with a person saying a 100% doesn't sound so impressive when you consider the 1000x difference from last gen.

This sentence doesn't even make sense. Not to mention this is strawman. Point to the specific part of my comment where I said that the SSD's are a generation apart.


It's over 100% more storage speed in terms of raw bandwidth and ~17% more teraflops. Make comparisons based on actual numbers, at hand, not made up ones.

Yup. I typed the wrong number.

Doesn't change my point 1K is a much larger number than 100.

Last gen to now is 1000. That's a transformative difference. In comparison 100 is not.

Storage speeds will have larger impacts on game design such as asset quality, world size, and level design. A larger teraflop GPU will not improve those aspects. The GPU is there to make calculations. Asset quality, world size, and level design are dependent on the size of the RAM pool, its bandwidth, memory management, and storage-to-RAM transfer speeds.

No. GPU has to process all that.

Asset quality is dictated by what the GPU can render

And one will provide a greater impact on game design more than the other. I will immediately notice a more detailed image over a less detailed image as opposed to a native 4K vs. 1900p image.

This is nonsense. Resolution is easily more noticeable than higher res textures.

As a person that plays on PC switching from Ultra to High/Medium shows a marginal difference. While switching from 2k to 4k is clearly noticeable without question.

Hence I said "if" in case you wanted to rebut with that argument.

Don't set up preemptive strawmen.

Doesn't help the conversation.

That will be more of a problem with the XSX if we go by the State of Decay demo. 10 seconds of loading of a not so graphically intensive game and it still suffers from texture pop-in. As a result, developers will need to take the time to improve the loading times and remove the pop-in.

I'm not sure that the state of decay demo is what you should be basing your idea if what the Xbox SSD can do

In contrast, the PS5 utilizes more akin to a "it just works" solution. As Cerny stated in his GDC talk, developers just need to indicate what uncompressed file the system needs to read and where to place it in memory. As a result, developers don't need to learn how to take advantage of the PS5's SSD and I/O as the system does much of the work for them. They can optimize even further if they want to, for example, if they want to improve the compression ratio with Kraken, but they don't have to.




The only one who is delusional is the one that has not even made a direct rebuttal to the counterarguments put forth. If much of the PS5's SSD and I/O benefits are automatically exploitable, then all developers don't even need to spend time to learn how to achieve the high speeds.

I'm not even sure what you are arguing here. I never argued that devs would have a problem using the PS5 SSD.

 

[Rusco Da Vino]

SeX will outperform the PS5. PS5 SSD will do the same thing any other SSD will do. Just faster.

Time to listen to Jason Schreier again, who reported the following after talking with 3rd party devs:

"Playstation 5 is actually the more superior piece of Hardware in a lot of different ways despite of what you see in Spec Sheets"

Source: (Full statement)

Spoiler

Are you better informed than him? Think about that

 

[ethomaz]

He believes that a gap of 2TF could therefore be discernible as we move into the next generation.

On the other hand the lockhart with 4TF will have no impact and will not be a burden for the XSX despite the 8Tflops that separate them.

it's funny

They create narratives without thinking in the consequences.

 

[DaMonsta]

Use a calculator if you're that sure he's wrong.

Don't need a calculator his numbers are clearly wrong as fuck

Ah, I see how you're completely ignoring how the SSD and I/O benefits are something developer don't even need to think about, to paraphrase Cerny.

How does this change what I said?

See Hardware Unboxed's video on Radeon Image Sharpening. If 1800p with RIS can look like native 4K (and the difference between 1800p and native 4K is a bigger difference between 12 TF vs. 10.3 TF), then no, the differences will not be apparent.

I mean if you can't see the difference then great for you. But the difference is there. Otherwise we would have stopped upgrading GPUs a long time ago

 

[Thirty7ven]

2400 MB = 100%
5500 MB = 229%

5500/2400*100 = 229%
129 + 100 = 229%
your outgoing is always 100% (basis), and not 0%.

2400 = 100%
5500 = ? it´s 2.29x100 = 229%

I was calculating % increase.

Don't need a calculator his numbers are clearly wrong as fuck

What is this? A flat earther? How can you simply say that with nothing but your word to back it up? You trying a jedi mind trick or something?