Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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Rusco Da Vino said:
Time to listen to Jason Schreier again, who reported the following after talking with 3rd party devs:

"Playstation 5 more superior piece of Hardware in a lot of different ways despite of what you see in Spec Sheets"

Source: (Full statement)


Are you better informed than him? Think about that :)
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Lol,

That quote doesn't even say what you think it is.

He's saying it's better than the numbers suggest. Not that it's better than SeX.

He already admitted his comments were damage control for him being wrong in the lead up to PS5 reveal.

You don't know which devs or what they actually said, but positive impressions no matter how anonymous/dubious they are, are what you hold on to while ignoring the actual numbers and examples we have in real life.
 
DaMonsta said:
No you got this wrong. Sorry
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could you share from what stone age maths you're using?

DaMonsta said:
Lol, no. PS5 SSD will do the same thing any other SSD will do. Just faster.
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this and more depends on how devs utilize ssd.
DaMonsta said:
Even at 4K the differences will be apparent. Aging we have cards with similar performance deltas to compare right now.
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there's 15% advantage for xsex gpu and there's 16% difference between 1800p and 2160p and these difference might apear just at the end of generation they won't be apparent, sorry you fail.
 
DaMonsta said:
Go read. There's plenty of info out there. No need for me to feed it to you
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Nope, you threw the metaphorical gauntlet. Now you must back it up. It is not my job to fulfill your burden of proof.

Your additional rebuttals aren't even worth taking seriously, so I'll just give my counterarguments in condensed form:
  1. The GPU does calculations. The size of memory, memory bandwidth, memory management, and storage-to-memory speeds are what will affect asset quality and level design. The reason why many games have mandatory walking sections, long narrow corridors, or open door QTEs is to compensate for low HDD speeds. It has nothing to do with the GPU.
  2. Hardware Unboxed's video on RIS on nearly 4K resolutions states otherwise. Saying resolutions matters more than asset quality/variety won't make your claim any more true if all you're doing is saying it ad nauseam. Using 2K to 4K as an example also does not help your case as the teraflops difference is equivalent to 1900p vs. 2160p. Not at all comparable and that difference can be easily masked by RIS.
  3. The State of Decay demo is a demonstration of what the XSX can do if developers don't take the time to optimize. This is in contrast to the PS5's "It just works" solution where the hardware does the majority of the work for the developers. All the developers need to do is indicate what uncompressed file the system needs to read and where the file needs to go.
  4. My rebuttal had nothing to do with the difficulty of taking advantage of the PS5's SSD. My rebuttal had to do with developers not needing to learn how to take advantage of the PS5's SSD. Even if they try not to take advantage of the higher bandwidth and I/O, it doesn't matter because the solutions are hardware-based. In fact, developers will end up spending more time if they intentionally gimp their games than just letting the PS5's SSD and I/O do the work for them.
 
It seems to me that the "nothing matters except 12 teraflops" mantra was part of Microsoft's marketing tactic for the first half of the year. Convince as many people as possible that 12 teraflops automatically wins them the generation. But now that games and software are about to be shown they're starting to walk it back now saying things like "ssds and cpus are what really matter."
 
DaMonsta said:
He said the storage drives are only 100 times as fast.

Don't matter what math he came up with after that. His baseline was incorrect.
Click to expand...

a) 2400/100 = ?
b) 5500/100 = ?

a) 24; b) 55

100 MB/s was peak


iu
 
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DaMonsta said:
Don't need a calculator his numbers are clearly wrong as fuck
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Your surely do need a calculator. And you also need to take a class on how to control your temper.

How does this change what I said?
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An SSD that has almost no learning curve vs. an SSD that has a learning curve is not just "just faster". Time is money for the developers. If they don't need to spend time and resources optimizing their games to take advantage of the SSD, then they can that towards actual development.

I mean if you can't see the difference then great for you. But the difference is there. Otherwise we would have stopped upgrading GPUs a long time ago
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Of which that difference is not discernible at those high resolutions and those differences can be easily masked by already existing solutions like RIS.
 
Rusco Da Vino said:
Time to listen to Jason Schreier again, who reported the following after talking with 3rd party devs:

"Playstation 5 more superior piece of Hardware in a lot of different ways despite of what you see in Spec Sheets"

Source: (Full statement)


Are you better informed than him? Think about that :)
Click to expand...

Already shared earlier in this thread, but Moore's Law is Dead also corroborated in one of his later videos:



The pinned discussion in the video is also worth reading as he also breaks down the advantages the PS5 has over the XSX in terms of the SSD and I/O.
 
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Evilms said:
Don't pretend not to understand, he clearly says that the Lockhart with 4TF will have no impact on game design on XseX, but the PS5 with 10TF of power would be a problem and the difference will be noticeable with the XesX because the difference of 2TF is important while 8TF is not.

Or maybe you suddenly have difficulties to read its messages ?
1467335935-jesus4.png
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If you can't understand difference between 12 and 10TFLOP machines which are targeting 4K and 4TFLOP machine which is targeting 1080p i don't know what to tell you.

So i'll just laugh
 
markusfenix75 said:
If you can't understand difference between 12 and 10TFLOP machines which are targeting 4K and 4TFLOP machine which is targeting 1080p i don't know what to tell you.

So i'll just laugh
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I didn't realize PS5 is a fixed resolution machine
I'd figured dropping resolution by 10-18% (like every other gen) on PS5 would free enough resources to match the XSX

Pro & X target 4k btw, doesn't mean all games will hit native 4k
 
SonGoku said:
I didn't realize PS5 is a fixed resolution machine
I'd figured dropping resolution by 10-18% (like every other gen) on PS5 would free enough resources to match the XSX

Pro & X target 4k btw, doesn't mean all games will hit native 4k
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That's why i said targeting. Of course not every game on both machines will be 4k/60 because it's up to devs.

I'm just saying that it's ridiculous suddenly talking about ps5 and Lockhart comparison, because they are machines with different targets and different goals.

However you can compare XsX and PS5 because they are competing with same promises - 4k gaming in next gen
 
markusfenix75 said:
If you can't understand difference between 12 and 10TFLOP machines which are targeting 4K and 4TFLOP machine which is targeting 1080p i don't know what to tell you.

So i'll just laugh
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You can't say that 10.3 Tflops might be weak for a next-gen console and then say that a 4 TF console is next-gen: you can't have it both ways....

It's not that hard to understand....

If you think the only thing that changes is RESOLUTION then, teraflops really DON'T MATTER for next-gen....
 
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Did you guys see the windowscentral article quoting MS execs and first party devs all of a sudden talking about and bigging up their I/O solution? I swear their PR has been on point. I am not even upset. They saw Sony talk about I/O and SSD, and quickly pivoted their messaging to show how they have also done a lot of custom enhancements to get rid of the bottlenecks in the I/O.

As a Sony fan baffled by the messaging by Sony, its refreshing to see a company react so fast and cover all their bases. I am not even sure if their I/O is just as good as Sony's but it sure reads like it, and if they can fool me then they can convince most casual observers that their velocity architecture is doing everything that Cerny's solution is doing.

10 out of 10 for messaging, but my god it is so obvious and transparent what they are doing lol. they simply will not let Sony have any advantage whatsoever. They have no shame.
 
4k isn't the promise of next gen, they probably won't even use it in marketing. The PS4 pro and X1X already ran with that message, they can't repeat it IMO.
 
MisterXDTV said:
You can't say that 10.3 Tflops might be weak for a next-gen console and then say that a 4 TF console is next-gen: you can't have it both ways....

It's not that hard to understand....

If you think the only things that changes is RESOLUTION then, teraflops really DON'T MATTER for next-gen....
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I never said that 10,3 TFLOPs will be weak for next gen.
Its true that ps5 will probably end up with games with little bit lower resolution but that's about it.
 
Dabaus said:
It seems to me that the "nothing matters except 12 teraflops" mantra was part of Microsoft's marketing tactic for the first half of the year. Convince as many people as possible that 12 teraflops automatically wins them the generation. But now that games and software are about to be shown they're starting to walk it back now saying things like "ssds and cpus are what really matter."
Click to expand...

Except MS never mentioned 12TF until a month or two ago with that Spencer's post, until then the number came from the so-called insiders, the same ones who suggested just 10% power difference, where the PS5 was suppose to be the stronger one, or the ones suggesting 13-14TF PS5, or the vastly superior custom RT solution. That "marketing" on the other hand didn't end well tho.

markusfenix75 said:
Yeaaah. It's called Cross-gen games. It is something new to you? Because as far as i can remember, last gen had it too
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Funny how people are pointing out XB cross-gens, while at the same time cannot wait for PS5 version of TLoU2, GoT or CP2077...
 
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markusfenix75 said:
I never said that 10,3 TFLOPs will be weak for next gen.
Its true that ps5 will probably end up with games with little bit lower resolution but that's about it.
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I wasn't talking about you, I was talking about Tom Warren.....

He said for 4 months "12 teraflops, big gap, blah blah". Now he's writing: "I have always said that the big difference would be SSD/CPU NOT GPU"

I mean, come on....
 
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The Mad Draklor said:
  1. The State of Decay demo is a demonstration of what the XSX can do if developers don't take the time to optimize. This is in contrast to the PS5's "It just works" solution where the hardware does the majority of the work for the developers. All the developers need to do is indicate what uncompressed file the system needs to read and where the file needs to go.
Click to expand...

This just isn't accurate in any context whatsoever. The XSX demo specifically showed a last gen game that was not altered, running on the platform. With no alteration, it's difficult to show an improvement in asset streaming (the disk will only return the information requested by the code). If the code only asks for 20mb/s worth of data, that is all that is being returned, regardless of the capabilities of the drive. Even the upfront loading can't show drive speeds completely, not when the game isn't packaged correctly. Every file that streams into a game is requested, there is no "it just works" solution to that.
 
SlimySnake said:
Did you guys see the windowscentral article quoting MS execs and first party devs all of a sudden talking about and bigging up their I/O solution? I swear their PR has been on point. I am not even upset. They saw Sony talk about I/O and SSD, and quickly pivoted their messaging to show how they have also done a lot of custom enhancements to get rid of the bottlenecks in the I/O.

As a Sony fan baffled by the messaging by Sony, its refreshing to see a company react so fast and cover all their bases. I am not even sure if their I/O is just as good as Sony's but it sure reads like it, and if they can fool me then they can convince most casual observers that their velocity architecture is doing everything that Cerny's solution is doing.

10 out of 10 for messaging, but my god it is so obvious and transparent what they are doing lol. they simply will not let Sony have any advantage whatsoever. They have no shame.
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I think its more to do with them wanting to reveal xsS and xss has the same ssd and io and cpu as xsx and if u notice thats what all of them said.

But that means cerny made the correct call to go all out on IO and SSD.
 
markusfenix75 said:
Yeaaah. It's called Cross-gen games. It is something new to you? Because as far as i can remember, last gen had it too
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Cross-gen are normally done by third party, not first party. You're asking other users if they know the difference and even you don't know.
 
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MisterXDTV said:
I wasn't talking about you, I was talking about Tom Warren.....

He said for 4 months "12 teraflops, big gap, blah blah". Now he's writing: "I have always said that the big difference would be SSD/CPU NOT GPU"

I mean, come on....
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And where he said that 10.3 is not enough? As far as i coud find he just stated that 2TFLOP will be advantage to Microsoft. Which is true. Every performance on top is beneficial
 
SonGoku said:
I/O is inside the SoC btw (same die)
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Yeah but it might be stacked on top of the CPU & GPU , look at the image it shows a stacked chip then it also show another board or chip that's being stacked on top of that main chip

My guess would be that it's either the the I/O chip on top of the CPU & GPU or they will have the I/O chip & CPU on the same layer with the GPU stacked on top. Then the other board or chip ( 9) is Wifi , SSD & so on


the integrated circuit apparatus 5 has two IC chips 5c and 5d that are vertically stacked one on top of the other.
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thus making it possible to dispose another component 9 (e.g., a transmission/reception module with an antenna and so on, a sensor, an external storage apparatus) of the electronic equipment 1 on the upper side of the integrated circuit apparatus 5 and ensuring a higher degree of freedom in laying out the component 9.
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CqdeURv.png
 
~Fake said:
Cross-gen are normally done by third party, not first party. You're asking other users if they know the difference and you don't even know.
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My point stands. Whether Microsoft chosed to take that path is entirely their choice. Their cross-gen period will probably end with third party so i really don't know where the problem is.

I'm just wondering why it only concerns Playstation fanboys...
 
The Mad Draklor said:
  1. The State of Decay demo is a demonstration of what the XSX can do if developers don't take the time to optimize. This is in contrast to the PS5's "It just works" solution where the hardware does the majority of the work for the developers. All the developers need to do is indicate what uncompressed file the system needs to read and where the file needs to go
Click to expand...

What in the world are you talking about here? lol
 
markusfenix75 said:
My point stands.
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Because? Stop pointing other users if you don't have better argument. seX are suppose to targeting next gen 8k, lockhart next gen 1080p and both Xbox one X and Xbox One S both current gen aka legacy games 'Until' Microsoft announce their games will work around the entire xbox family.

markusfenix75 said:
I'm just wondering why it only concerns Playstation fanboys...
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For the sake of the argument, I'll ignore that and just move on.
 
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SlimySnake said:
Did you guys see the windowscentral article quoting MS execs and first party devs all of a sudden talking about and bigging up their I/O solution? I swear their PR has been on point. I am not even upset. They saw Sony talk about I/O and SSD, and quickly pivoted their messaging to show how they have also done a lot of custom enhancements to get rid of the bottlenecks in the I/O.

As a Sony fan baffled by the messaging by Sony, its refreshing to see a company react so fast and cover all their bases. I am not even sure if their I/O is just as good as Sony's but it sure reads like it, and if they can fool me then they can convince most casual observers that their velocity architecture is doing everything that Cerny's solution is doing.

10 out of 10 for messaging, but my god it is so obvious and transparent what they are doing lol. they simply will not let Sony have any advantage whatsoever. They have no shame.
Click to expand...

They are just doing their job to market their 2 SKUs as best as possible, one way to do that is to suggest they have no disadvantages compared to their competition, it's cut-throat business.

One thing I've been intrigued in their marketing of Series X is the use of term 'worlds most powerful' console instead of constantly throwing 12.1TF figure. They don't want to spend too much time dictating the metrics (like they did for Xbox One X) because there is a cheaper SKU to sell at launch too. Expect Lockhart to be pronounced as 'Worlds most economical' console or some shit like that lol

On their I/O solution, they are smart to have given a nomenclature for it. 'Xbox Velocity Architecture' has more buzz to it, compared to Sony doing a bunch of customization on die itself but not specifically naming it. Besides, the talk on I/O has picked up because MS are talking more about their API/Software, it can't make up for the hardware customization Sony have done on their end.


Rusco Da Vino said:
Jason Schreier:
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Team Green don't think Schreier is a legitimate source for consoles, he soiled his reputation to them when he chose to describe PS5 in few-choice words...

MisterXDTV said:


If a 2 TF difference could be noticeable, what about an 8 TF difference? :messenger_tears_of_joy::messenger_tears_of_joy::messenger_tears_of_joy::messenger_tears_of_joy:
Click to expand...


Warren is a MS lap-dog, he relays what his masters ask him to. If Lockhart wasn't launching parallelly and being revealed soon, I doubt he would've written that tweet out.

Any difference can be made noticeable if devs put work, even if said difference is 2TF. For 3rd-party stuff, if devs decide to use same resolution on PS5 and Series X (say 1800p), they can leverage that extra HP on Series X to make it more visually appealing. The question is if they would be willing to put the work in, or just play the resolution game like they did for PS4 Pro and Xbox One X.
 
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Agnostic2020 said:
I think its more to do with them wanting to reveal xsS and xss has the same ssd and io and cpu as xsx and if u notice thats what all of them said.

But that means cerny made the correct call to go all out on IO and SSD.
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yeah, they are rolling out tom warren this morning with the same talking points. after months of tflops is the only thing that matters talk, now tflops dont matter.

again, i get it. they have a console to sell, but its just so goddamn transparent. just be a little discrete.

MisterXDTV said:


If a 2 TF difference could be noticeable, what about an 8 TF difference? :messenger_tears_of_joy::messenger_tears_of_joy::messenger_tears_of_joy::messenger_tears_of_joy:
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lmao.
 
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MisterXDTV said:


If a 2 TF difference could be noticeable, what about an 8 TF difference? :messenger_tears_of_joy::messenger_tears_of_joy::messenger_tears_of_joy::messenger_tears_of_joy:
Click to expand...

I cant find anything about 10,3 can't handle 4k

Again. If you can't understand 2 machines with 4k targets and similar price point vs. One machine with 1080p target and lower price point just stop replying...
 
MisterXDTV said:


If a 2 TF difference could be noticeable, what about an 8 TF difference? :messenger_tears_of_joy::messenger_tears_of_joy::messenger_tears_of_joy::messenger_tears_of_joy:
Click to expand...

Can you use that thing you call a brain for a second. Good. Now let's consider 4K requires 3 x the GPU power, Higher Texture resolutions will require more ram. When you lower the need for both of these, 4TF (6TF GCN) with 12GB GDDR6 makes total sense. But neither of these will affect gameplay.
 
SlimySnake said:
yeah, they are rolling out tom warren this morning with the same talking points. after months of tflops is the only thing that matters talk, now tflops dont matter.

again, i get it. they have a console to sell, but its just so goddamn transparent. just be a little discrete.


lmao.
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Imitation is flattery, my friend 😂
 
DaGamez said:
Weird, it's almost like a GPU tasked with outputting @ 1/4 resolution wouldn't need to be as powerful. :messenger_tears_of_joy:
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Again, Teraflops matter only for output resolution then? NOTHING ELSE? You drop the resolution and everything else stays the same?

Microsoft is now telling us that Lockhart is a NEXT-GEN MACHINE

Keep grasping at straws, I will keep laughing
 
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scie said:
Oh, wow I guess that wasn´t cheap for Microsoft:

news.xbox.com

Coming Soon to Xbox Game Pass for Console: Red Dead Redemption 2 - Xbox Wire

You read that title correctly, we’ve got some big news for you coming from the wild, wild (Pacific North) West. Coming on May 7 to Xbox Game Pass for Console: Red Dead Redemption 2. Winner of over 175 Game of the Year Awards and recipient of over 250 perfect scores, Red Dead Redemption 2 is […]
news.xbox.com news.xbox.com
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Arthur, have some goddamn faith.
One more job.
And we'll be off to Tahiti. Eating mangoes. Dancing around the campfire. Cut Micah some slack will ya?
 
icerock said:
They are just doing their job to market their 2 SKUs as best as possible, one way to do that is to suggest they have no disadvantages compared to their competition, it's cut-throat business.

One thing I've been intrigued in their marketing of Series X is the use of term 'worlds most powerful' console instead of constantly throwing 12.1TF figure. They don't want to spend too much time dictating the metrics (like they did for Xbox One X) because there is a cheaper SKU to sell at launch too. Expect Lockhart to be pronounced as 'Worlds most economical' console or some shit like that lol

On their I/O solution, they are smart to have given a nomenclature for it. 'Xbox Velocity Architecture' has more buzz to it, compared to Sony doing a bunch of customization on die itself but not specifically naming it. Besides, the talk on I/O has picked up because MS are talking more about their API/Software, it can't make up for the hardware customization Sony have done on their end.




Team Green don't think Schreier is a legitimate source for consoles, he soiled his reputation to them when he chose to describe PS5 in few-choice words...



Warren is a MS lap-dog, he relays what his masters ask him to. If Lockhart wasn't launching parallelly and being revealed soon, I doubt he would've written that tweet out.

Any difference can be made noticeable if devs put work, even if said difference is 2TF. For 3rd-party stuff, if devs decide to use same resolution on PS5 and Series X (say 1800p), they can leverage that extra HP on Series X to make it more visually appealing. The question is if they would be willing to put the work in, or just play the resolution game like they did for PS4 Pro and Xbox One X.
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Yeah, i said that earlier. Velocity architecture is a fantastic name. They did in two words what Cerny struggled to do in half an hour. Their PR game is on point.

Ive seen many xbox fans refer to the Lockhart as a console for families and kids. It almost seems coordinated. i think MS will market it like that.
 
MisterXDTV said:
Again, Teraflops matter only for output resolution then? NOTHING ELSE? You drop the resolution and everything else stays the same?

Microsoft is now telling us that Lockhart is a NEXT-GEN MACHINE

Keep grasping at straws, I will keep laughing
Click to expand...

??? The grunt required for most effects drops significantly with resolution, everything the GPU can do goes hand in hand with that. This is why DLSS can boost frames without changing RT settings, because applying those techniques at a lower resolution greatly reduces the cost. Same for almost all particle and volumetric effects. That's how GPUs function.
 
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