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[Tripolygon]

Maybe I'm dumb, but can someone enlighten me, how Xbox Live has over 100 million monthly active users, while Playstation Network has about the same and Steam 90?

They sold 70 million less consoles.

Because it includes people who play Minecraft on PS4 and Mine Sweeper on PC. Lol

 

[SlimySnake]

I've been ragging on Sony's marketing for well over a year now and frankly it's quite stunning how they have fucked it all up.

I remember people here telling me that is too early to ask for more details. Well we have literally just preordered the console and we still don't know anything about the ui, console features, and how bc works.

The Spiderman fiasco is the perfect example. They are charging money for a product they have not yet shown. Everyone hates it because they haven't shown a side by side comparison of wise the upgrades look like.

This shouldn't be this hard. They are in the business of selling consoles and games and yet they are failing to even show this stuff properly.

 

[sircaw]

This is the big thing that everyone is waiting to see from Digital Foundry. Microsoft have sold the XSX as being significantly more powerful than the PS5 and that the differences will be extremely noticeable. They have to prove that with the comparisons.

Aye, we get back to that old adage of brute force vs better design in terms of all those custom hardware improvements that Sony put in.

Its basically ultimate power vs custom efficiency, not sure if efficiency is the correct word atm, looking for a better one maybe,

either way, the ass creed demo and dirt demo already state/ both are 4k60 ----- 120 fps for dirt.

ITs already neck and neck.

Besides a few tree branches here, an occasion sheep walking about, no idea if anyone can tell the difference.

It is going to be very interesting, at the end of the day i think both will looking smashing.

 

[lastmessiah]

I hope there is a good reason in the end, i.e. that there is some cool level customization that they have wanted to keep up their sleeve. Otherwise I do not understand it from a marketing point of view.

It isn't hard to understand if you've ever been around a marketing team. They won't want to reveal information about stuff they have no confidence in. They will hold back all news that isn't favorable until they can hide it no longer.

 

[xacto]

New poster ( not alt account). I always love booting up a new console for the first time and just browsing the UI then playing some game you would never have bought normally, but wanted to see what new machine can do. Really looking forward to seeing how fast PS5 is to move through ui and get into a game. Hopefully blazing fast.

By the way, before being able to post, always enjoyed Sircaws humor, Bowens positivity, and Geordie and Heisenbergfx4's knowledge. Others too (even XBox guys but I have never owned one).

You can always count on Bo_Hazem 's knowledge in Minecraft, he's basically a fountain of information; anything, from guides, to tips and tricks and gameplay.

Ask anything Minecraft, Bo_Hazem is your man. Note: he's shy and such a nice person about all this, that initially he'd say he hated Minecraft, he doesn't wanna come across like a celebrity. But press on with Minecraft, and you will see, he will let it all out.

And welcome to GAF, mate!

 

[DeepEnigma]

I hope there is a good reason in the end, i.e. that there is some cool level customization that they have wanted to keep up their sleeve. Otherwise I do not understand it from a marketing point of view.

Maybe some of the customizations are in big Navi and we have to wait for AMDs Zen3 / Navi next month.

 

[MasterCornholio]

It isn't hard to understand if you've ever been around a marketing team. They won't want to reveal information about stuff they have no confidence in. They will hold back all news that isn't favorable until they can hide it no longer.

I don't get it. That's like saying that Microsoft has no confidence in the XSXs power because they haven't really shown games on the system. While Sony is confident on the PS5s power because they won't stop showing games running on the system.

 

[Three Jackdaws]

 

[IntentionalPun]

It's not about the Gigabytes per second, it's more about Migabytes per millisecond.

5.5GB/s to 22GB/s = 5.5MB/s to 22MB/ms, and that's insanely critical for efficiency and streaming on the fly for RAM/CPU/GPU.

I'm aware.

But it's also going to eventually enable insane detail for really large games.

 

[lastmessiah]

I don't get it. That's like saying that Microsoft has no confidence on the XSXs power because they haven't really shown games on the system. While Sony is confident on the PS5s power because they won't stop showing games running on the system.

They've shown games running on the XSS. And no one is under the impression that XSX can't run games, just like no one is under the impression that PS5 can't run games. You don't sell consoles that can't run games. This is just a ridiculous argument that no one with a brain takes seriously.

 

[FunkMiller]

I've been ragging on Sony's marketing for well over a year now and frankly it's quite stunning how they have fucked it all up.

I remember people here telling me that is too early to ask for more details. Well we have literally just preordered the console and we still don't know anything about the ui, console features, and how bc works.

The Spiderman fiasco is the perfect example. They are charging money for a product they have not yet shown. Everyone hates it because they haven't shown a side by side comparison of wise the upgrades look like.

This shouldn't be this hard. They are in the business of selling consoles and games and yet they are failing to even show this stuff properly.

Pre orders sold out in minutes. You can't get a Ps5 for love nor money right now.

You might not like what they're doing, but you can hardly argue with the results.

 

[sircaw]

I've been ragging on Sony's marketing for well over a year now and frankly it's quite stunning how they have fucked it all up.

I remember people here telling me that is too early to ask for more details. Well see have literally just preordered the console and we still don't know anything about the ui, console features, and how bc works.

The Spiderman fiasco is the perfect example. They are charging money for a product they have not yet shown. Everyone hates it because they haven't shown a side by side comparison of wise the upgrades look like.

This shouldn't be this hard. They are in the business of selling consoles and games and yet they are failing to even show this stuff properly.

I personally do not like what they have done with spiderman, i think it its an arsehole move by Sony, regardless if its upgraded with all those rays, textures bla bla , i think they should let people have it for free. Put an extra 5 bucks on the MM game if they want, i think when you buy a game it should be yours and upgrades should just be patched onto the game.

I remember buying Skyrim a long time ago, then they came out with another one, expected you to buy that full price, then released it somewhere else bla bla bla. I liked skyrim at one stage but practises like that, its bullshit.

As for not releasing more console features, its coming, you just need to be patient. The YouTubers of the future are going to give you everything you want to know., also in Japanese

 

[MasterCornholio]

They've shown games running on the XSS. And no one is under the impression that XSX can't run games, just like no one is under the impression that PS5 can't run games. You don't sell consoles that can't run games. This is just a ridiculous argument that no one with a brain takes seriously.

Well you also can't sell a systems power without showing software that takes advantage of it.

Just saying that not showing something doesn't mean they are not confident in it.

 

[FunkMiller]

You can always count on Bo_Hazem 's knowledge in Minecraft, he's basically a fountain of information; anything, from guides, to tips and tricks and gameplay.

Ask anything Minecraft, Bo_Hazem is your man. Note: he's shy and such a nice person about all this, that initially he'd say he hated Minecraft, he doesn't wanna come across like a celebrity. But press on with Minecraft, and you will see, he will let it all out.

And welcome to GAF, mate!

When I think about Minecraft Bo_Hazem is always the first name I think of.

 

[Dave_at_Home]

Aye, we get back to that old adage of brute force vs better design in terms of all those custom hardware improvements that Sony put in.

Its basically ultimate power vs custom efficiency, not sure if efficiency is the correct word atm, looking for a better one maybe,

either way, the ass creed demo and dirt demo already state/ both are 4k60 ----- 120 fps for dirt.

ITs already neck and neck.

Besides a few tree branches here, an occasion sheep walking about, no idea if anyone can tell the difference.

It is going to be very interesting, at the end of the day i think both will looking smashing.

Stay away from those sheep, fish. You've been warned.

 

[smallpotatosan]

what are you going to do if the benchmarks tests not performing as you guys describing in your messages?

what are you going to do if your machine lose the benchmarks to the competition?

This is for XBOX and PS fans

Nothing. This is not a competition of who gets to play more FPS with the same game.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

You can always count on Bo_Hazem 's knowledge in Minecraft, he's basically a fountain of information; anything, from guides, to tips and tricks and gameplay.

Ask anything Minecraft, Bo_Hazem is your man. Note: he's shy and such a nice person about all this, that initially he'd say he hated Minecraft, he doesn't wanna come across like a celebrity. But press on with Minecraft, and you will see, he will let it all out.

And welcome to GAF, mate!

When I think about Minecraft Bo_Hazem is always the first name I think of.

 

[sircaw]

Stay away from those sheep, fish. You've been warned.

If only i was Welsh.

 

[sircaw]

Feeling down, click below.

Spoiler: urgent message

 

[smallpotatosan]

microsoft/DirectML

DirectML is a high-performance, hardware-accelerated DirectX 12 library for machine learning. DirectML provides GPU acceleration for common machine learning tasks across a broad range of supported ...

github.com

Hardware requirements

DirectML requires a DirectX 12 capable device. Almost all commercially-available graphics cards released in the last several years support DirectX 12. Examples of compatible hardware include:

• AMD GCN 1st Gen (Radeon HD 7000 series) and above
• Intel Haswell (4th-gen core) HD Integrated Graphics and above
• NVIDIA Kepler (GTX 600 series) and above
• Qualcomm Adreno 600 and above

Cool demo. But wow, what's going on with the FPS? The FPS counter is no way near accurate. It's worse than the slide show. intentional?

 

[Bojanglez]

I've been ragging on Sony's marketing for well over a year now and frankly it's quite stunning how they have fucked it all up.

I remember people here telling me that is too early to ask for more details. Well we have literally just preordered the console and we still don't know anything about the ui, console features, and how bc works.

The Spiderman fiasco is the perfect example. They are charging money for a product they have not yet shown. Everyone hates it because they haven't shown a side by side comparison of wise the upgrades look like.

This shouldn't be this hard. They are in the business of selling consoles and games and yet they are failing to even show this stuff properly.

Yet they sell out anyway, so it probably doesn't matter to them. As much as we love all this stuff (and it will come) the masses are probably more interested if Travis Scott thinks the Dualsense is cool or not

Hopefully they are just going to give us a very entertaining October

 

[Neo Blaster]

65" got a steel on it.

Pretty neat video, I too was impressed at the black levels on the Sony set. I also came from a 120Hz 4K IPS Sony set in the game room to this one, so it was literally night and day.

I prefer Sony's color accuracy over the LGs personally as well.

This Sony model isn't even an option for me, as it hasn't arrived yet in Brazil and probably never will(Sony is closing their only TV factory in the country). It's CX for me.

 

[martino]

Cool demo. But wow, what's going on with the FPS? The FPS counter is no way near accurate. It's worse than the slide show. intentional?

not sure how optimized it is and how much time they put into the concept but if fps counter is accurate it's clearly not worth it in current state
(also image quality is not that great too (but also hard to tell since it's youtube video))

 

[DeepEnigma]

This Sony model isn't even an option for me, as it haven't arrived yet in Brazil and probably never will(Sony is closing their only TV factory in the country). It's CX for me.

Sad reacts only.

Can't go wrong with the CX, it's a beautiful set.

 

[SlimySnake]

Yet they sell out anyway, so it probably doesn't matter to them. As much as we love all this stuff (and it will come) the masses are probably more interested if Travis Scott thinks the Dualsense is cool or not

Hopefully they are just going to give us a very entertaining October

Pre orders sold out in minutes. You can't get a Ps5 for love nor money right now.

You might not like what they're doing, but you can hardly argue with the results.

of course they are gonna sell out preorders. xbox sold out too. and yet we all think that it will get outsold by a 2:1 margin next gen.

it doesnt mean the marketing hasnt been atrocious. RGT is right, the road to ps5 thing was the worst way to reveal a new console. so much tech lingo and no demos. and since then its been one misstep after another.

currently, we are hitting F5 waiting for Naughty dog to announce a next gen patch for tlou2 on a random saturday. thats not how this stuff is supposed to be marketed.

 

[MoreJRPG]

Pre orders sold out in minutes. You can't get a Ps5 for love nor money right now.

You might not like what they're doing, but you can hardly argue with the results.

Completely irrelevant. People like you and I, and those on this forum that bought one were going to get a pre-order regardless. It's the 60-90 million other people Sony needs to convince and right now they're doing a horrible job.

 

[smallpotatosan]

I've been ragging on Sony's marketing for well over a year now and frankly it's quite stunning how they have fucked it all up.

I remember people here telling me that is too early to ask for more details. Well we have literally just preordered the console and we still don't know anything about the ui, console features, and how bc works.

The Spiderman fiasco is the perfect example. They are charging money for a product they have not yet shown. Everyone hates it because they haven't shown a side by side comparison of wise the upgrades look like.

This shouldn't be this hard. They are in the business of selling consoles and games and yet they are failing to even show this stuff properly.

Because we still preordered without knowing the details. Because they wanted to have the games, ie the result of the tech, to do the talk. Because they want to protect their IP. Or maybe because AMD wanted Sony to keep quiet.

I'm frustrated as a tech lover. but it doesn't mean Sony's marketing is a complete fk. We are simply not Sony's marketing focus.

 

[kyliethicc]

Who is he?

musician

 

[LucidFlux]

what are you going to do if the benchmarks tests not performing as you guys describing in your messages?

what are you going to do if your machine lose the benchmarks to the competition?

This is for XBOX and PS fans

I'm pretty sure most of us will be playing games. I and many others genuinely interested in the technology may look at benchmarks, scratch our beards, say ah yes interesting then go back to playing games. Folks who are invested in wars will continue to throw poo at eachother.

 

[Neo Blaster]

I love how Demon's Souls has basically destroyed all of these old arguments.

"Yes, but have you seen Demon's Souls?" essentially ends every single argument about the Ps5 being underpowered now

Didn't you know? It's just a remaster of an old game. And MM is just a DLC.

 

[FranXico]

Ahh gotcha. I just need to see what they did with the Remaster to see if it's justified. Could be a studio decision of they feel it was significant enough.

They're not just charging for the remaster. They are paywalling it behind an Ultimate Edition of the new game. The kind of shit only Activision did before.

 

[smallpotatosan]

Completely irrelevant. People like you and I, and those on this forum that bought one were going to get a pre-order regardless. It's the 60-90 million other people Sony needs to convince and right now they're doing a horrible job.

Im curious. Do all those 60-90 million people know what SOC means? Do they know what cache does? And what the hell is a cache scrubber? Do they know what ALU is? How important ALU in actual game performance? I can go on for a long list of things.

or do you not agree the gameplay demo of R&C, demon souls, MM and more in the future be more effective on those 90 mil people?

perspectives.

 

[SlimySnake]

I don't know how much transistors the PS5 has but one thing I know, we can guess the size of the GPU portion of the PS5.

This site gives us the size of the ps4 GPU. https://www.extremetech.com/extreme...u-reveals-the-consoles-real-cpu-and-gpu-specs
Which is 88 mm sq.
Now according to Mark Cerny, the size of each CU in the PS5 GPU is roughly 62% larger than a PS4 CU. Thus, there is the equivalent of 58 PS4 CUs in the PS5.

Going by this information.
The size of a PS4 CU is: 88 mm sq. divided by 20 CUs = 4.4 mm sq.
The size of the GPU portion of the PS5: 4.4 mm sq. multiply by 58 CUs = 255.2 mm sq.
But this 255.2 mm sq. doesn't include the disable CUs which is probably 4 CUs.
So, 40 PS5 CUs + (40×(62%)) = 64.8 or 65 PS4 CUs, which = 286 mm sq.
This 286 mm sq. is only the GPU. It doesn't include the CPU or I/O.

Like Mark Cerny said, "It is a fairly sizable GPU."
This is just my speculation btw.

tbh, i dont think we need to guess the size of the ps5 gpu. we know its based on the 5700xt and it had 10.7 billion transistors.

we know from hotchips that xsx is also identical to the 5700xt except for the fact that it has more CUs. RDNA dual CUs are around 5mm2 which means those extra 16 CUs are an extra 40 mm2 which puts them at 291 vs 251 for the ps5. roughly 20% bigger. so the xbox gpu should be around 12.5 billion transistors with the rest being the i/o and the zen 2 cpu.

 

[SlimySnake]

I love how Demon's Souls has basically destroyed all of these old arguments.

"Yes, but have you seen Demon's Souls?" essentially ends every single argument about the Ps5 being underpowered now

do we even know how they are doing 4k 60 fps in demon souls? is it checkerboard or native 4k?

did anyone do any pixel counting?

 

[BlueXImpulse]

Im curious. Do all those 60-90 million people know what SOC means? Do they know what cache does? And what the hell is a cache scrubber? Do they know what ALU is? How important ALU in actual game performance? I can go on for a long list of things.

or do you not agree the gameplay demo of R&C, demon souls, MM and more in the future be more effective on those 90 mil people?

perspectives.

He said that with a straight face as if it isn't Microsoft that needs to be doing everything they can to convince people. All Sony need to do is show up with games and they have. They showed up with actual gameplay and not CGI trailers. We still don't know what games look like running on the XSX but we do know the flagship title Halo looks like a Xbox 360 title.

Playstation don't have to do anything. Xbox does.

 

[yewles1]

They're not just charging for the remaster. They are paywalling it behind an Ultimate Edition of the new game. The kind of shit only Activision did before.

Don't forget Bandai Namco with Ace Combat.

 

[zaitsu]

do we even know how they are doing 4k 60 fps in demon souls? is it checkerboard or native 4k?

did anyone do any pixel counting?

I've seen some video on YT and dude said that he can't tell if its Native and CB soo good he can't tell the difference.

 

[ksdixon]

Pre orders sold out in minutes. You can't get a Ps5 for love nor money right now.

You might not like what they're doing, but you can hardly argue with the results.

PS5 is selling based on PS4 hype. The point is the they could have "even more" hype by releasing proper info, and not mis-communicating certain things like the Spiderman upgrade fiasco.

 

[MoreJRPG]

Im curious. Do all those 60-90 million people know what SOC means? Do they know what cache does? And what the hell is a cache scrubber? Do they know what ALU is? How important ALU in actual game performance? I can go on for a long list of things.

or do you not agree the gameplay demo of R&C, demon souls, MM and more in the future be more effective on those 90 mil people?

perspectives.

Demon's souls, Ratchet and Clank, etc won't sell PlayStation's either. To the masses at least. PlayStation first party numbers prove that. Low attach rate compared to a console like the Switch which at half the install base is blowing Sony first party sales out of the water. Social media and marketing moves units and if people are swayed because Twitter is saying Gamepass is an insane deal and Digital Foundry videos show the Series X consistently performs better that's how the mindshare shifts and word of mouth spreads. There's a reason PS4 destroyed the Xbox One, social media and marketing did the heavy lifting. Not the games. Because let's face it, Knack and Killzone Shadow Fall weren't.....shall we say, Breath of the Wild-esque experiences.

 

[Elysion]

microsoft/DirectML

DirectML is a high-performance, hardware-accelerated DirectX 12 library for machine learning. DirectML provides GPU acceleration for common machine learning tasks across a broad range of supported ...

github.com

Hardware requirements

DirectML requires a DirectX 12 capable device. Almost all commercially-available graphics cards released in the last several years support DirectX 12. Examples of compatible hardware include:

• AMD GCN 1st Gen (Radeon HD 7000 series) and above
• Intel Haswell (4th-gen core) HD Integrated Graphics and above
• NVIDIA Kepler (GTX 600 series) and above
• Qualcomm Adreno 600 and above

Is that from a game, or just a tech demo? Because that looks incredible; that's what I was hoping next-gen racing games would look like.

 

[Based Department]

Can you please provide a source for the "5 billion more transistors"?

We already know Xbox has 15.3 billion transistors, they both have the same fabrication process (7nm) xbox has 3328 cores and ps5 has 2304 cores
(15.3/3328)*2304 = 10.59
you get the same value if you calculate it using CUs or die size

 

[Elog]

It isn't hard to understand if you've ever been around a marketing team. They won't want to reveal information about stuff they have no confidence in. They will hold back all news that isn't favorable until they can hide it no longer.

There is so much wrong with this post I do not know where to start. MS has been all talk and no delivery for 7 years straight. Sony has been very little talk and 7 years of solid delivery. If that is not enough data for you that everything does not work like in America I do not know how to convince you about the opposite.

I am not American but have lived and worked in the US for years. In the US talking is everything. In the culture that I come from 'empty barrels make the most sound' and 'to talk is silver - to remain silent is gold'. However, at this stage I would like to see Sony reveal more about their console (since most information we have is from that GDC talk). Given that finally the console is out of their hands we are hopefully in for some information shortly.

 

[Neo Blaster]

Nope, the difference in the GPU is huge xbox has 1000+ more Shading Units and 18 more CUs, 5 billions more transistors
Some might say the clock speed can compensate that, no it won't clock speed yield follows a logarithmic function it's very known among overclocking enthusiasts.
At the end of the day we'll see comparisons very soon, and I'm ready to bet my house that the difference will be significant

Just don't go betting your buttocks like some Xbox fans in Brazil.

 

[xacto]

Feeling down, click below.

Spoiler: urgent message

See, it's for moments like this when I think to myself that if I wanted to have a nice tank with a nice fish in it, you'd always be my first choice

 

[Imtjnotu]

We already know Xbox has 15.3 billion transistors, they both have the same fabrication process (7nm) xbox has 3328 cores and ps5 has 2304 cores
(15.3/3328)*2304 = 10.59
you get the same value if you calculate it using CUs

The 15 billion is for the whole apu. Not just the Gpu tho...

 

[SlimySnake]

I've seen some video on YT and dude said that he can't tell if its Native and CB soo good he can't tell the difference.

even if its checkerboard 4k 60 fps, that means the game couldve looked much better at 4kcb 30 fps. and they couldve released a 1080p 60 fps option like gow and sotc.

I feel like devs are going all in on 60 fps next gen with which is kinda disappointing for graphics whore. the fps whores are definitely getting their wish though.

 

[martino]

Is that from a game, or just a tech demo? Because that looks incredible; that's what I was hoping next-gen racing games would look like.

it's a demo but the game seems to be forza horizon 3 , anyone can confirm ?

 

[Neo Blaster]

what are you going to do if the benchmarks tests not performing as you guys describing in your messages?

what are you going to do if your machine lose the benchmarks to the competition?

This is for XBOX and PS fans

What I'm going to do is having a blast on good quality games based on what Sony have shown so far.

 

[Based Department]

The 15 billion is for the whole apu. Not just the Gpu tho...

Still they both use the same APU (zen2 and RDNA2)

 

[MasterCornholio]

did anyone do any pixel counting?

Maybe Digital Foundry?

But then again I haven't heard them confirm anything about the resolution. I remember they didn't know the resolution of the UE5 demo until they were told.

I'm guessing Demon Souls could be handling the resolution very similarly. If Digital Foundry isn't able to tell the difference then I don't think anyone should be worried.