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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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Three Jackdaws

Unconfirmed Member
Is it possible that XS is having issues with BVH ray intersections through culling and that PS5's Geometry Engine may have advances that accommodate through such problems already, thus explaining MS's RT problems?
Good point, I remember Matt Hargett (ex-Playstation engineer) in RGT's podcast mentioned that BVH intersection calculations would need to be considered when the geometry is culled, I definitely think Sony have considered this and there could be some sort of solution within the Geometry Engine.
 

Nowcry

Member
Is it possible that XS is having issues with BVH ray intersections through culling and that PS5's Geometry Engine may have advances that accommodate through such problems already, thus explaining MS's RT problems?


If you use the shaders as calculation power, it all comes down to solving a mathematical equation. Straight intersection with plane and ideal bounce.

There can be no problem getting the intersections, it seems very strange to me. Those equations are more than chewed up.
 
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He is salty because Playstation doesn't answer his questions, but he is not a dev so sorry(?).

I would love if sony to give a playstation to almost all other media except DF, yes I know is not a good idea Eurogamer is big and
also is better to have videos from them than have nothing.

But man just the fact to have Alex saying constantly shit, all the discord thing, Richard using his doubts as ¨reasonable¨
doubts/worries for PS5 and be part in some way of the marketing Xbox is not something you want to have in an impartial media.

No thanks. Guaranteed calamity. They are not engineers. These guys are no different to us. At least we get closer to a consensus agreement & we just banta in here.

1 of you good people drop a summary please.
They are engineers but the are not game devs or similar.
 
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Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!
You meant Xbox One FAT? Well, they should optimized for Xbox One FAT, Xbox One SAD, Xbox One X, Xbox Series S, Xbox Series X for a total of 43 million people, which most will wait to play it for $1-10 on gamepass. While the effort on PS4-5 is much more rewarding for 110+ million. It's not hard to know were the money is.



Parity, ever heard of it? Some happened during PS360 era when PS3 was hard to develop for. Don't act as if you never heard of it.

You mean the thing that was constantly was debunked by 99 percent of developers?
 

Handy Fake

Member
i don't think i can hate you anymore than at this present moment.
Well, if I'm correct...

Say there's a tunnel going through a mountain in a game with raytracing.

You look down the tunnel and there's a bend in it, beyond that bend (where you can't see) there'll be culling - as in it won't be rendered to save on processing.
However, the raytracing will still be active, and a light source outside, say the sun, will shine through that unrendered part of the tunnel when it's not supposed to and create weird lighting effects.
 

Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!
Because developers had a history of putting their footsies in the mouths (in the beginning of the gen).



What's this have to do with a marketing deal forcing parity?
 

Elog

Member
If you use the shaders as calculation power, it all comes down to solving a mathematical equation. Straight intersection with plane and ideal bounce.

There can be no problem getting the intersections, it seems very strange to me. Those equations are more than chewed up.

The problem is not to run intersections. The problem is to prioritise which intersections to run or in other words how to make the smallest amount of calculations with the best visual outcome as possible. It is the prioritisation that is key to performance - and that is tricky.

Reading the Sony AR it is clear that they have spent a lot of resources on exactly this part with libraries for developers etc.
 
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Captain Hero

The Spoiler Soldier
w35Vt19.jpg
 

sircaw

Banned
Well, if I'm correct...

Say there's a tunnel going through a mountain in a game with raytracing.

You look down the tunnel and there's a bend in it, beyond that bend (where you can't see) there'll be culling - as in it won't be rendered to save on processing.
However, the raytracing will still be active, and a light source outside, say the sun, will shine through that unrendered part of the tunnel when it's not supposed to and create weird lighting effects.

If i have my way there will be a culling around here very soon. Yep i am out.

Fuck this place and hope all of you technical people BURN IN HELL, fucking party poopers the lot of you

This site better improve in the next 4 weeks, we need less not more information form Microsoft and Sony.

Disgusting. "lollipop_disappointed:
 
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lol, that fucking show is so terrible

I mostly just want Microsoft to do well.. for competition reasons, and because.. well.. my career is partly based on Microsoft doing well as a company lol (I also do Java/Node/AWS/whatever stuff but my specialty is Azure/.Net.) I will never work for the company as I've contracted there and kinda hate it, but there's a selfish reason for my slight green tint. The job market in my city for my career is like 50% based on them.
azure is fine. it's going to be bigger than AWS in the enterprise world. and Xbox is only a small unit. as a developer. it doesn't really matter to MS as of now. As a developer, I never liked MS and their bloated SDK. this is admittedly where my bias comes from. then all those FUDs really annoyed me. those fanatic fanboys are doing more harm than good to MS. yet MS execs like to hang out with them. it's a shame.

MS has talented engineers. they will do well without the defence force. If MS management was humble, this gen will start a lot better for them. But nope, they want to show they are the big boy. As soon as the management realized the execution cannot keep up, it's all the damage control after because almost everything they bragged about has backfired. for example, where is this 4k/60 target narrative now? where is this 100GB instantly accessible asset? Everyone is talking about the arrogant Sony. But in my definition, MS is the arrogant one here. Anyhow, some random rants here. I want a successful Xbox too for the sake of competition. it is supposed to be a good thing not a war. nowadays whatever i say will be treated as fanboy rubbish as someone says. it's simply insane.
 

Antelope

Member
Yeah, I mean these upscaled games, maybe like demon souls 60fps mode look like 4k anyway, if indeed that's what it is doing.

Maybe if they do have a patented next gen upscaling they could call it a fancy marketing 4k name to sell it.

Also Bo_Hazem Bo_Hazem i wonder where nx gamers demon souls video from your thread analysis went that was meant for last week?

I mean their tv’s use the x1 chip and it’s far and away better at upscaling than the competition in the tv space. Playing Bloodborne on a B9 OLED and 950g, the Sony tv looked fantastic compared to the muddy upscaling on the B9 OLED. Granted that’s an older chipset, but still, seems like they do have in-house expertise on upscaling they could leverage from their tv and imaging divisions.
 

Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!
Devs do sometimes say the darnedest things sometimes, huh? Ambiguity and all.
"We decided to lock them at the same specs to avoid all the debates and stuff,"

"Technically we're CPU-bound," he said. "The GPUs are really powerful, obviously the graphics look pretty good, but it's the CPU [that] has to process the AI, the number of NPCs we have on screen, all these systems running in parallel.

Do we really need to go back and se how shitty Unity was at launch on both machines? So I will ask again, what does this have to do with a marketing deal forcing parity?
 

azertydu91

Hard to Kill
Man I can imagine people trying to force the trigger through and it breaking a lot of controllers
Yep that's one of my concern but I do hope that the trigger even when blocked allow some more on the beotian side indidividuals to just force through the blocking without breaking it.
 

Bo_Hazem

Banned
Going by Bo's evidence, i think that's possible. There is an Ars technica article on it, mentioning something similar if i remember correctly.

In "resolution" mode, the game runs in an apparently uncapped frame rate; this bounces between 30fps and 60fps, which averages out to roughly 40fps. This mode's dynamic resolution maxes out near 2160p and falls as low as an apparent 1440p. (Compared to Xbox One's heavily aliased DiRT 4, the jump in resolution this time around is very appreciated.) Drop to DiRT 5's middle "frame rate" setting, and you'll see a mild hit to texture pop-in on the ground ahead of you, along with a noticeable hit to shadow pop-in in the near distance. Settings are otherwise mostly left intact, other than a dynamic resolution that scales down lower, while the frame rate gets close to, but doesn't lock to, 60fps.


Also they had their crops:

This is 400% zoom they made, this is "Resolution" mode:

puddle-crop-02-4k-1440x810.png


This is 120Hz mode:

puddle-crop-02-1080-1440x810.png


It's an eyesore to look at.
 
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yewles1

Member
In "resolution" mode, the game runs in an apparently uncapped frame rate; this bounces between 30fps and 60fps, which averages out to roughly 40fps. This mode's dynamic resolution maxes out near 2160p and falls as low as an apparent 1440p. (Compared to Xbox One's heavily aliased DiRT 4, the jump in resolution this time around is very appreciated.) Drop to DiRT 5's middle "frame rate" setting, and you'll see a mild hit to texture pop-in on the ground ahead of you, along with a noticeable hit to shadow pop-in in the near distance. Settings are otherwise mostly left intact, other than a dynamic resolution that scales down lower, while the frame rate gets close to, but doesn't lock to, 60fps.


Also they had their crops:

This is 400% zoom they made, this is "Resolution" mode:

puddle-crop-02-4k-1440x810.png


This is 120Hz mode:

puddle-crop-02-1080-1440x810.png


It's an eyesore to look at.
Wait, it never actually REACHES full 4K according to Ars?
 

Aceofspades

Banned
Rich always bringing Xbox to the picture everytime he thinks Xbox would look favourable.

Poor man was SURPRISED by how BIG the motherboard was...really Rich? More than 95% of all all electronics are designed using ONE motherboard like PS5, its Xbox who opted for Two sheets design. He is just trying to slip in MS complement so hard ... Yeesh 💸💸

Also I see some concerns regarding the soldered SSD on PS5! Ok Rich , I get it that Sony doesn't communicate with you, but why didn't you ask your buddies at microsoft about the same issue since Xbox AND PS5 have soldered SSDs?

Also I love the skiptisim about WiFi6. Lol...really Rich?

Also since he loves to brings Xbox whenever he can notice how he didn't mention them when he talked about:

- SSD raw output (2.4 wont sound impressive compared to PS5 5.5)
- he didn't bring up Xbox when talking about USB ports...we know how Xbox compare in that area..
- he didn't mention Xbox when talking about WiFi6 , instead he was like...not sure we can reach those figures!! WTF man, was it so hard to praise Sony for future proofing threir console?

In the end, his opinion is worthless and the best thing is..Sony thinks that too 🤣
 

zubairali2

Member
In "resolution" mode, the game runs in an apparently uncapped frame rate; this bounces between 30fps and 60fps, which averages out to roughly 40fps. This mode's dynamic resolution maxes out near 2160p and falls as low as an apparent 1440p. (Compared to Xbox One's heavily aliased DiRT 4, the jump in resolution this time around is very appreciated.) Drop to DiRT 5's middle "frame rate" setting, and you'll see a mild hit to texture pop-in on the ground ahead of you, along with a noticeable hit to shadow pop-in in the near distance. Settings are otherwise mostly left intact, other than a dynamic resolution that scales down lower, while the frame rate gets close to, but doesn't lock to, 60fps.


Also they had their crops:

This is 400% zoom they made, this is "Resolution" mode:

puddle-crop-02-4k-1440x810.png


This is 120Hz mode:

puddle-crop-02-1080-1440x810.png


It's an eyesore to look at.

i thought i saw minecraft steve and the creepers on the right😅

this some good shit im smoking 👍
 

Antelope

Member
Rich always bringing Xbox to the picture everytime he thinks Xbox would look favourable.

Poor man was SURPRISED by how BIG the motherboard was...really Rich? More than 95% of all all electronics are designed using ONE motherboard like PS5, its Xbox who opted for Two sheets design. He is just trying to slip in MS complement so hard ... Yeesh 💸💸

Also I see some concerns regarding the soldered SSD on PS5! Ok Rich , I get it that Sony doesn't communicate with you, but why didn't you ask your buddies at microsoft about the same issue since Xbox AND PS5 have soldered SSDs?

Also I love the skiptisim about WiFi6. Lol...really Rich?

Also since he loves to brings Xbox whenever he can notice how he didn't mention them when he talked about:

- SSD raw output (2.4 wont sound impressive compared to PS5 5.5)
- he didn't bring up Xbox when talking about USB ports...we know how Xbox compare in that area..
- he didn't mention Xbox when talking about WiFi6 , instead he was like...not sure we can reach those figures!! WTF man, was it so hard to praise Sony for future proofing threir console?

In the end, his opinion is worthless and the best thing is..Sony thinks that too 🤣

Take a shot every time DF mentions Microsoft in a Sony video. It’s a fun game, not good for productivity.
 
Also I love the skiptisim about WiFi6. Lol...really Rich?

Like NXGamer, Richard did zero research on this and just mentioned the max theoretical speed of the spec, without really understanding what he is saying. No device I'm aware of supports 4x4 160+160MHz in WiFi6 which is the only way to reach 9.6Gbps. The PS5 max speed is 1.2Gbps, and in reality 800-900Mbps.
 
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Anyone think this is a neat for games?

Take a game like Demon Souls for example. With the adaptive triggers heavier weapons can make the trigger more difficult to pull.

So if you swinging a short sword it should be really easy to pull the trigger. But a much heavier weapon like the infamous Zweinhander should be alot more difficult to pull.

I'm actually hoping that Demon Souls does something like this.
 
T

Three Jackdaws

Unconfirmed Member


Wow...Big Navi will have 128 ROPS and 256 bit bus.

Some people seem to be concerned because it's "only 256 bit" but from what RedGamingTech and MLiD have said (as well as a few other credible leakers) is that RDNA 2 will have really good memory bandwidth thank's to it's caching system, I know the same will apply for PS5 and maybe even the Series X.
 

Bo_Hazem

Banned
Bo_Hazem Bo_Hazem , I'm not sure how you game without ever seeing tearing, if a game misses the target by even a single frame there is a tear, unless they are running a buffered Vsync. But that solution can cause some major frame rate issues on its own with massive drops and all that.

Racing games are the worst for tearing, you really need to lock a framerate on these. The constant forward motion...

Edit: I should add that I can totally see the value of unlocked modes in all games, due to how this will boost performance on future consoles. But please offer a locked option as well.

Coming back again, thanks to FeiRR FeiRR and others, PS4 and consoles in general should have VSYNC on by default. It could add some latency when on, like Freesync and G-Sync. Some seem to turn it off:




Some probably are playing on those retard monitors instead of TV's, and seems VSYNC isn't compatible with some of them.

So this answers you why I didn't experience screen tearing ever on PS4.
 


Wow...Big Navi will have 128 ROPS and 256 bit bus.

Some people seem to be concerned because it's "only 256 bit" but from what RedGamingTech and MLiD have said (as well as a few other credible leakers) is that RDNA 2 will have really good memory bandwidth thank's to it's caching system, I know the same will apply for PS5 and maybe even the Series X.


Doesn't the PS5 have a 256 bit bus?
 
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Three Jackdaws

Unconfirmed Member
Doesn't the PS5 have a 256 bit bus?
The 128 ROPS and 256 bit bus tweet is in reference to "Big Navi" aka AMD's highest end dGPU, sorry I should have mentioned that in the original post and yes PS5 does have 256 bit bus.
 
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