I think you mean 5Gbps, Gigabit not Gigabyte.
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I think you mean 5Gbps, Gigabit not Gigabyte.
TLZ
Banned
Well you're no fun
Tommy Fisher
Banned
FranXico
Member
That's... something anybody here could have guessed.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
I assume you meant Housemarque with the last one? Tell you what I would love to see a new Resogun taking full advantage of RT and maybe even a 8K/120fps mode!
Tulipanzo
Member
Incidentally, I was thinking it might be helpful to have tiers for info we share.
I was thinking:
A: Confirmed by the company
*ex. XBox/PS5 will have BD drives
B: Most reputable sources are in agreement
* Both consoles are very close in power
C: A few reputable sources agree
* PS5 is slightly ahead of XBox
D: One verified source of info
* That game Klee saw
E: Unverified info
* Pastebins, PS5 has HBM
F: Speculation
NB: All the above may be wrong!
LockHart's cancellation would be a B, but plans were fluid and changed.
Furthermore context matters, and company PR should be looked at more as marketing/intention and not be overly analyzed.
In terms of speculation, it's kind of the point of the thread, and it can be helpful!
Just consider what you're basing it off, and don't pass it as fact.
I was thinking:
A: Confirmed by the company
*ex. XBox/PS5 will have BD drives
B: Most reputable sources are in agreement
* Both consoles are very close in power
C: A few reputable sources agree
* PS5 is slightly ahead of XBox
D: One verified source of info
* That game Klee saw
E: Unverified info
* Pastebins, PS5 has HBM
F: Speculation
NB: All the above may be wrong!
LockHart's cancellation would be a B, but plans were fluid and changed.
Furthermore context matters, and company PR should be looked at more as marketing/intention and not be overly analyzed.
In terms of speculation, it's kind of the point of the thread, and it can be helpful!
Just consider what you're basing it off, and don't pass it as fact.
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Tommy Fisher
Banned
Yeah and I didn't say that's based on internal information.
Red_Driver85
Member
I'm pretty sure this. They are very talented devs. But Housemarque is my №1.
PocoJoe
Banned
Everything in your "character" screams about trolling.
First hint is the name. People that want to play the role of trustworthy user use "real name" kind of names on these forums because it gives some hidden ideas to other users
Like "he is using real name, so nothing to hide/troll would use something like gangstaman69" subconsious reactions.
Rest is just that quite clear mind games of a tennis, where troll defends every claim with something that could be true, but is easy to say and hard to prove.
And there are always people that WANT to believe so they hang on every small bit of information that verify their feelings and needs and ignore the rest.
That is the trolls job, to be vague enough to give that feeling that maybe it is true, and use small pieces of information that is already out there and add some guesses in the soup.
And then say stuff like "just wait and see
"Most real insiders dont have to play mind games and defend themselves.
Source: used to be master troll on other kind of subjects in my past life
nowhat
Member
That's brilliant! I love it!
Msamy
Member
Tommy Fisher
are you sure about both next gen have same 52 cu GPU's with different clocks? Because many peoples still believe in Microsoft have bigger & slower gpu which make them have room for improvement before launch, but if they have 52 cu at 1.8 clock speed, and sony have better cooling system (as some mentioned), i don't think ms can increase the power of xsex which means, gpu spec's you provide are locked and won't change before release.
TeamGhobad
Banned
Apparently 12tf is a pipedream.
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Tulipanzo
Member
Is it?
People seemed pretty glad after Tom Warren's info.
We actually heard 12TF before, but dismissed it due to it being "too good".
It actually brings back a ton of rumours that were similarly dismissed, like the Benji 13TF one.
Quite happy with the state of things overall
TeamGhobad
Banned
people are iffy about it on echochamber era
Tulipanzo
Member
Most I've seen is "Phil's language is confusing", coming from DF's own Dictator no less.
Really, there were a couple pages at most for "12TF is GCN", and most of it was mockery of the idea, with DF doubts seen as overblown.
By comparison, Klee's "unreliability" (mainly due to resentment for his PS5>SeX claim) resulted in a dozen pages of discussion and several bans.
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it_wasn't_me
Banned
Once again Xbone fans screwed up things by attacking insiders because they can't stand that PS5 is more powerful than Series X. Now, on other forum thread was closed.
TeamGhobad
Banned
thats not what happened. people just wanted proof of the specs. im perfectly ok with ps5 being more powerful IF ms gives me 12 teraflops of rdna 2.0
also more than 16 gb ram.
it_wasn't_me
Banned
He was attacked surely, before he mentioned that he has the specs sheet ( from page 100 onwards ). Btw, looks like he isn't banned.
Guess who asked for specs in vast majority - Xbone fans. You can't give the specs just like that. It would jeopardize his source. EDIT : now i see that thread is now opened
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TeamGhobad
Banned
the specs that he has might also be old. specs from 6months ago. who knows. 16gb of ram is what throws me off. cause in their own SoC reveal we saw more than 16.
edit: people are saying ps5 is only 8-9tflop...
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it_wasn't_me
Banned
Nope.
It was never more than 16. Their teaser showed mix of 2 GB and 1 GB chips. Very good evidence for 10 RAM chips in a 3-4-3 configuration.
Tulipanzo
Member
Several users were clearly upset with that info, claiming Klee was unreliable and doing it for "insider money".
This despite that info being old, and his claims proving mostly correct.
With Reiner and Klee we've seen there's a contingent of people that get very militant when their power advantage is questioned.
I'm sure Tom Warren gets his fair deal of shit on Twitter, but I haven't seen conspiracy theories popping up to prove he's a liar , like the other two got.
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Tidux
Member
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THE:MILKMAN
Member
It just doesn't seem elegant though. Also I read that it would mean different chips give different bandwidth = more work for devs?
TeamGhobad
Banned
the first time i heard that ps5 was more powerful was about a year ago on 4chan. they claimed the ps5 devkits were large noisy towers. and had a 20-30% advantage. this has been consistent in every leak that ps5 is more powerful so at this point i believe it. but there are other specs im curious about ps5 ram setup. ReRam? SSD? and so on.
dont they auto set at the lowest?
when, what?
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it_wasn't_me
Banned
I don't know about that.
Dee Dah Dave
Member
“Insiders” don’t do themselves any favours when they clearly come across as desperate for some attention. Drip feeding information and being as ambiguous as possible.
Most of the stuff can be guessed within the right ballpark anyway if you have a keen interest in gaming and some time on your hands. So people should shit or get off the pot!
Most of the stuff can be guessed within the right ballpark anyway if you have a keen interest in gaming and some time on your hands. So people should shit or get off the pot!
pawel86ck
Banned
I dont trust Klee. Not so long time ago he has said "bingo" when 64CU's 12TF GPU leak was mentioned, but later on when more and more people started talking about 52CU's then he corrected his previous comment. Klee dont want to say anything new, so what's the point of listening to insider amyway? I would rather trust Tommy Fisher than Klee.
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TeamGhobad
Banned
when do specs need to be finalized? when do the consoles go into manufacturing?
wouldnt they just use 8 2gb chips instead of 10? for cost saving and heat?
wouldnt they just use 8 2gb chips instead of 10? for cost saving and heat?
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it_wasn't_me
Banned
Well, they know the best. But well, serial numbers showed mix of 2GB and 1GB chips. Samsung's actually.
Rightisright
Banned
So here's my prediction.
The Xbox One X was the stepping stone for XSX, so what did they do well and new on that console? They managed to up clock speeds and introduce a innovative cooling solution. I expect this to continue, and so I cant see Sony out doing MS on clock speeds.
MS also baked alot of their own tech into the CPU which worked in with DX 12. I expect this to be the case again, which Varible Shading is an example of.
Let's be honest here, both MS and Sony would know exactly what is in each other's Dev kits, as I am sure a little bit of industrial espionage goes on, as well as loose lips from 3rd party developers who have both kits. I think that final clock speeds will be the main thing that both can play a little ducks and drakes with. We saw MS increase clock speeds on Xbox One on both the CPU and GPU speeds at the last minute, and I expect both Sony and MS have this in mind again. Underestimating clock speeds to developers isnt really going to hold the system back in any way, and will be a pleasant surprise when rolled out.
I think MS is going with an off the shelf SSD, while Sony is going with a more internal one. Not sure a quicker SSD is going to do much for one console over the other. No one is going to buy a console because it is 1 second quicker to boot up.
MS got their world rocked when Sony out pointed them on the tech front with PS4, and the way they came back with the X to me gives me confidence that MS wont be out powered again.
I also expect higher than expected prices. Let's be honest here, people pay over $1000 every couple of years for a phone, so a console at $599 in 2020 is like a $399 console in 2007.
I expect the following
PS5
CPU - Zen 2 8c/16t @3.2-3.6
GPU - Navi GPU @ 10.5-11.5 tflops (Navi Flops)
Memory - 16-20 GB of GDDR 6
SSD - 500gb @4gbs
XSX
CPU - Zen 2 8c/16t @3.2-3.6
GPU - Navi GPU @ 12 tflops (Navi Flops)
Memory - 16 GB of GDDR 6
SSD -500gb @ 2gbs
I think they will have lower capacity SSDs to keep the price down, and I expect both Sony and MS to offer expandable SSD capacity, so when you run out of space you buy more and plug them in.
I think the greatest difference is each companies Secret Sauce.
Both have shown an ability to do it and this is where I expect MS to shine.
Come at me.
The Xbox One X was the stepping stone for XSX, so what did they do well and new on that console? They managed to up clock speeds and introduce a innovative cooling solution. I expect this to continue, and so I cant see Sony out doing MS on clock speeds.
MS also baked alot of their own tech into the CPU which worked in with DX 12. I expect this to be the case again, which Varible Shading is an example of.
Let's be honest here, both MS and Sony would know exactly what is in each other's Dev kits, as I am sure a little bit of industrial espionage goes on, as well as loose lips from 3rd party developers who have both kits. I think that final clock speeds will be the main thing that both can play a little ducks and drakes with. We saw MS increase clock speeds on Xbox One on both the CPU and GPU speeds at the last minute, and I expect both Sony and MS have this in mind again. Underestimating clock speeds to developers isnt really going to hold the system back in any way, and will be a pleasant surprise when rolled out.
I think MS is going with an off the shelf SSD, while Sony is going with a more internal one. Not sure a quicker SSD is going to do much for one console over the other. No one is going to buy a console because it is 1 second quicker to boot up.
MS got their world rocked when Sony out pointed them on the tech front with PS4, and the way they came back with the X to me gives me confidence that MS wont be out powered again.
I also expect higher than expected prices. Let's be honest here, people pay over $1000 every couple of years for a phone, so a console at $599 in 2020 is like a $399 console in 2007.
I expect the following
PS5
CPU - Zen 2 8c/16t @3.2-3.6
GPU - Navi GPU @ 10.5-11.5 tflops (Navi Flops)
Memory - 16-20 GB of GDDR 6
SSD - 500gb @4gbs
XSX
CPU - Zen 2 8c/16t @3.2-3.6
GPU - Navi GPU @ 12 tflops (Navi Flops)
Memory - 16 GB of GDDR 6
SSD -500gb @ 2gbs
I think they will have lower capacity SSDs to keep the price down, and I expect both Sony and MS to offer expandable SSD capacity, so when you run out of space you buy more and plug them in.
I think the greatest difference is each companies Secret Sauce.
Both have shown an ability to do it and this is where I expect MS to shine.
Come at me.
Tulipanzo
Member
It was far from a given though.
Before E3 the common belief was that Scarlet was going to be far more expensive, offset by LockHart.
Furthermore, the pushback Klee got was on him being a "fake/paid insider", and not about needing more info on PS5.
TeamGhobad
Banned
Well, they know the best. But well, serial numbers showed mix of 2GB and 1GB chips. Samsung's actually.
why would they use a mix of...2gb creates more heat? to me it looks like its surrounded by ram chips. 4 times 3 chips. 2gb in the midde 1 gb on each side. each side has 4gb which equals 16...yep. its 16.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
May be they can make it transparent to devs via the tools provided? Or see below about chips being down clocked to 1GB chip speed.
You mean the 2GB chips (if faster/higher BW) would clock down to 1GB chip speed? Then what be the point of using mixed density chips? Unless the teaser was showing the Lockhart config made with mixed density chips to fit the bus of the primary Anaconda?
I'm out of my depth here......
TeamGhobad
Banned
probably because of space on the motherboard. you can only put 3 chips on each side. so u can only use 12 chips. i didnt see any chips on the corners like scorpio had.
No it's GB/s
TeamGhobad
Banned
i will say this. i dont know HMB2 is a thing or not but the speculated specs all point to ps5 having a much more expensive BOM.
cooling
RAM
SSD
if its gonna be 499 they are taking a huge hit.
cooling
RAM
SSD
if its gonna be 499 they are taking a huge hit.
8 chips would only give them a 256-bit bus though so 10 is better for a 320-bit bus
He said bingo for the total number of TF's, not the CU count. Other users talk about 52CU is just speculation, not any info at all.
We've heard 12TF over and over at this point, the last guy talking about it is Arthur Gies. In all probability XSex will be around 12TF RDNA
Regarding PS5 it could be anything from 11 to 13TF. But most people (Reiner, Moriarty, Klee, even Tommy Fisher, who you trust, even Tom Warren back in E3 and even that Benji dude) is/was saying 13TF.
I think what has been said and known for months now is the most probable:
Xbox ~ 12TF
PS5 ~ 13TF
~ could mean both end up being the same at 12.5TF for all we know.
Al rumors point to that direction, while all we have debunking that is mosty PC gamers saying is not possible because of thermals, etc.
I think it's just simpler than that. But we'll see soon enough.
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Sorry yes my mistake.
TeamGhobad
Banned
im more worried about the SSD and RAM setup. 12 and 13 is negligible.
sonomamashine
Member
Exactely, like any other thing he says, and when the real info gets out "oh well they have been some final changes"
Stop that fanboyism drama.
Gamernyc78
Banned
X came out a year after ps4 pro and was expected to be more powerful given price and timing. Microsoft actually copied some of Ps4's internal hardware design. The fact tht they created the X and was more powerful doesn't give me confidence it's just par the course. The fact tht Sony came out initially with a better designed console and more powerful at a better price point says alot and with Cerny at the helm I'm sure they'll come out on top again. Thy have some of the best hardware and software ppl at Sony. Microsoft has a good team too but this isn't some situation where they are above Sony.
Expect both to be close as has been said a billion times but PS5 more powerful with one or two things catching some ppl by surprise, it could be again in the realm of memory and or/psvr 2.0 being a big jump from psvr 1 (there's a reason why we are not hearing much rumors about VR) I do believe the SSD situation and hardware RT will be better on PS5. Cloud of course is a main focus of Microsoft.
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Tommy Fisher
Banned
64CUs?! hell no! and why would MS go with 64CUs at 1.4-1.5Ghz to reach 12tflops when they can achieve that with smaller amount of CUs (Subsequently Die size) and higher clock easily?
TBiddy
Member
There was less than a year between the two.
TLZ
Banned
I don't take it too serious. Unless it's our one-of-a-kind insider TimDog the champ.but he's telling the truth, what's not fun to you is another pair of shoes
I mean, who doesn't want secret sauce in the power brick, eh?
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Kdad
Member
Gamernyc78
Banned
Big difference. Comment and it's point still stands. Could have been six month difference and would have been similar situation  par the course this isn't Nintendo we are talking about.
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