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[Mr. PlayStation]

PS5 is RDNA2, but as Mark Cerny pointed out in the PS5 Deep Dive presentation in March: Sony hasn't simply incorporated every single RDNA 2 PC tech in for the PS5, rather tailor made by collaborating with AMD to understand what exact feature from RDNA 2 sony needs for the PS5. Mark even said when AMD's RDNA 2 gpu's come out and if people see the tech between the desktop GPU and PS5 sharing some commonalities, it means AMD and Sony's collaboration was a success and that AMD found the collab to be invaluable.

 

[edotlee]

Some new (not much) information on FFXVI. The artwork is .

Introducing the world and characters of Final Fantasy XVI

How Mothercrystals, Dominants, and Eikons fit into the world of Valisthea.

t.co

 

[FunkMiller]

People forget the consoles live/die on developer talent using the hardware. Games, not just specs.

Look at the new Nvidia RTX 3090 graphics card.... 24 GB of RAM, 36 TFLOPS, almost 1 TB/s bandwidth, over 10000 shaders...

... but it can't even run Knack. Cerny wins again

The analogy is that Michael Bay has the most powerful, most advanced film making equipment in the world and makes shit like Transfomers. Robert Eggers shot The Lighthouse on a potato, and it’s a work of genius.

 

[Neko Mimi Mode]

They are laughing at all the RDNA2 stuff, it is amusing.

Yes but not in the way you think.

 

[danielJackson]

Just because they can't pixel count doesn't mean they can't tell if it's native 4k or not.

"SuperResolution" isn't a fanboy term, it's literally the name of AMDs feature lol. It's Machine Learning driven upscaling, like DLSS. Sony have not mentioned anything about it, so it seems like they don't have it since they don't have the full RDNA2 feature set.

How can people play on xbox because xbox power cord doesnt have copper inside, it is just full plastic?*

How can we play on xbox because it can explode like nuclear bomb?*

And mafia can come and take it because it could be really owned by mafia?*


*Microsoft havent mentioned those things, so they must be true

It is silly to make assumptions just because they havent mentioned it.

And in the end, even if some features would be missing: PS5 still sells like crazy and games aee enjoyable.


Or do people trash their current gen consoles because: omg it doesnt have vrs xxx xxs tech?

 

[Valued Gamer]

I will let it go, if CU individual frequency or hotchips is not sufficient, AMD white paper will seal the deal anyway. It will be plain as day and that will wrap it up for good with no wiggle room at all.

Back on topic, new DF video

All will be revealed eventually for all the systems. Sit back and enjoy the ride.

 

[FunkMiller]

Here’s what happened with all this RDNA stuff:

Xbox fans jumped up and down all over Ps5 when they heard it didn’t use every aspect of RDNA 2.

Then Ps5 fans jumped and down all over XSX when they heard it didn’t use every aspect of RDNA 2.

Now we know XSX does use the full suite, and Ps5 uses a custom amount.

None of this tells us which console plays games better.

You‘re all arguing over nothing.

Games. Are. All. That. Matters.

And right now, Sony have the edge on that aspect.

This is the truth.

 

[Killer Sakoman]

Just because they can't pixel count doesn't mean they can't tell if it's native 4k or not.

"SuperResolution" isn't a fanboy term, it's literally the name of AMDs feature lol. It's Machine Learning driven upscaling, like DLSS. Sony have not mentioned anything about it, so it seems like they don't have it since they don't have the full RDNA2 feature set.

They don't need it. They have their own method. Besides the fact that they were always one of the first developers to introduce upscaling and AA techniques.

 

[sandkiller]

I don't really understand what they won?

They have just confirmed that AMD GPUs have infinity cache, which they do not have in SX.
That AMD GPUs have high frequencies that SX don't.
AMD desing have not made more than 10 CU per shader array a different SX shader array with 14/16
AMD has RT new hardware inside CUs.
And that the CU or DCU have variable clocks and SX dont.

Did they just tell you that the SX GPU is nothing like the design that AMD has and that in return they have VRS, Mesh Shaders that the opposite console will have the same with its name?

Something tells me that they have not understood what they have been taught. You have just been taught that the MS GPU lacks pretty much everything you have learned today.

Nor do I say that PS5 has it, but of course we already know that SX does not.

Nobody won anything yet.

 

[Killer Sakoman]

Here’s what happened with all this RDNA stuff:

Xbox fans jumped up and down all over Ps5 when they heard it didn’t use every aspect of RDNA 2.

Then Ps5 fans jumped and down all over XSX when they heard it didn’t use every aspect of RDNA 2.

Now we know XSX does use the full suite, and Ps5 uses a custom amount.

None of this tells us which console plays games better.

You‘re all arguing over nothing.

Games. Are. All. That. Matters.

And right now, Sony have the edge on that aspect.

This is the truth.

XSX doesn't have RDNA 2 CUs and RT seems different. Actually both consoles are customized. PS5, eventhough is supposed to be more customized than XSX, it shares more with RX6000.

 

[sandkiller]

Yes but not in the way you think.

1+2 = 3

 

[MistBreeze]

All this full RDNA 2 or not do not means anything

both consoles are customized to the brim

maybe ps5 is more customized to Sony needs

but series x gpu clocks do not indicate it is full RDNA 2

in fact ps5 is closer to RX6000 cards than series x

 

[MastaKiiLA]

I'm curious to know more about the CU and cache design in the PS5 GPU. Did the CU design mentioned by AMD yesterday allow for both ray and texture ops simultaneously per clock? If so, would incorporating this independent arrangement of TMU and RA play a factor in why RT seems to be more readily accessible in the PS5 so early on?

The cache arrangement would just be a natural extension of that. If, for example, such a split design only allowed 1 ray op + 4 texture ops (spitballing based on an overly-simplified diagram), then a shared cache would allow you to have multiple CUs working on the same ray, as suggested by the former Sony engineer. What you give away in peak RT performance, you gain back in sustained RT performance, and possibly a simpler rendering pipeline. The latter I have no idea on, as I don't code.

 

[BGs]

As I am receiving questions privately I will post a general answer here on the subject trying not to infringe anything.

At the marketing level it is very good to be able to say that a hardware has everything that AMD presents. But that does not mean that others cannot do the same or better (or not) through another approach. In this case, Sony has seen fit that its approaches were better for PS5 than those offered by AMD. There is no single way to reach a goal. PS5 is not cropped, it is customized for your interests on a deeper level. This, each one who interprets it as best suits him, some will say that it is better, others that it is worse ... I think that it is different and that the time and the results will say that it was better or worse.

MS has kept the apartment as it was and has painted the walls and changed the doors. Sony has changed the structure of the walls and the arrangement of the rooms. But on both floors you can go shit (wc). You can shit standing or sitting but the quality of the shit will apparently be the same, but never identical, everything will depend on what you eat and the effort you make when pressing. But ultimately you will like shit more or less based on your personal tastes, and not because of the shit itself.

I think it's my most disgusting technical answer.

 

[FranXico]

Now we know XSX does use the full suite, and Ps5 uses a custom amount.

Feature set. And marketing is conflating architecture with feature set. Any customization on the architecture level means it is not a 100% match to what you see on PC. And even on PC, there are variations. So, the specification is dictated by feature set, which naturally is bound to DirectX support.

They would never say anything differently.

 

[Gudji]

Today is Demon's Souls day.

 

[ToadMan]

XSX doesn't have RDNA 2 CUs and RT seems different. Actually both consoles are customized. PS5, eventhough is supposed to be more customized than XSX, it shares more with RX6000.

There’s something weird about the wording of the RT stuff.

At hot chips MS described their RT solution as sharing the TMUs - TMUs or RT calculations per tick but not both. The same bit of silicon doing two different jobs.

Back in Cerny’s talk he said PS5’s RT solution was the same as RDNA2.

Yesterday, AMD seems to say their RT solution is a piece of silicon separate to the the TMU and is closer to Nvidia’s solution.

So something doesn’t match up. Is what MS showed at hot chips really how AMD are implementing RT? Or have AMD included separate silicon for RT and that’s what’s in PS5 and not on Xsex. Or did MS incorrectly describe what’s inside their gpu?

Questions questions. Seems like we’re still waiting for AMD to do a deep dive here - yesterday’s thing was just a teaser.

 

[OmegaSpear]

Today is Demon's Souls day.

What do you mean? Reviews? Previews?

 

[ToadMan]

I'm curious to know more about the CU and cache design in the PS5 GPU. Did the CU design mentioned by AMD yesterday allow for both ray and texture ops simultaneously per clock? If so, would incorporating this independent arrangement of TMU and RA play a factor in why RT seems to be more readily accessible in the PS5 so early on?

Yes I’m curious about this too. It would explain what we’ve seen from games so far - the abundance of RT on PS5 and it’s absence on Xsex.

But it seems too convenient an answer to me. It would be a bombshell and basically a “secret sauce” outcome. I don’t think AMD, MS or even Sony would want such situation.

Actually thinking about it last night I almost thought maybe AMD did the TMU/RT hybrid last year and that’s what the consoles got, but then had to go further to match nVidia and put separate RT silicon on their GPUs later and which neither console has ...

Back in Cerny’s talk he said the PS5 uses the RDNA2 ray tracing solution though

 

[Yoboman]

As I am receiving questions privately I will post a general answer here on the subject trying not to infringe anything.

At the marketing level it is very good to be able to say that a hardware has everything that AMD presents. But that does not mean that others cannot do the same or better (or not) through another approach. In this case, Sony has seen fit that its approaches were better for PS5 than those offered by AMD. There is no single way to reach a goal. PS5 is not cropped, it is customized for your interests on a deeper level. This, each one who interprets it as best suits him, some will say that it is better, others that it is worse ... I think that it is different and that the time and the results will say that it was better or worse.

MS has kept the apartment as it was and has painted the walls and changed the doors. Sony has changed the structure of the walls and the arrangement of the rooms. But on both floors you can go shit. You can shit standing or sitting but the quality of the shit will apparently be the same, but never identical, everything will depend on what you eat and the effort you make when pressing. But ultimately you will like shit more or less based on your personal tastes, and not because of the shit itself. I think it's my most disgusting technical answer.

You were doing well, then you started talking shit

 

[Gudji]

What do you mean? Reviews? Previews?

Previews it seems. There's a guy on era saying it will happen in around 2 hours (2 PM CEST), it's the same dude that leaked the PS+ games for November.

EDIT: Actually I dunno if the time is right since there's been a change on timezones recently, but it will happen today.

 

[Bojanglez]

PS5 is RDNA2, but as Mark Cerny pointed out in the PS5 Deep Dive presentation in March: Sony hasn't simply incorporated every single RDNA 2 PC tech in for the PS5, rather tailor made by collaborating with AMD to understand what exact feature from RDNA 2 sony needs for the PS5. Mark even said when AMD's RDNA 2 gpu's come out and if people see the tech between the desktop GPU and PS5 sharing some commonalities, it means AMD and Sony's collaboration was a success and that AMD found the collab to be invaluable.

Exactly. I think somebody needs to draw a Venn diagram for anyone that doesn't get that PS will have discarded the RDNA2 features they weren't interested in and probably built their own custom solutions for certain aspects (principles of which may show up in future desktop GPUs).

 

[Zheph]

The number of conversations we had in here when every details was already in The Road to PS5 is just insane

 

[hemo memo]

PS5 is RDNA2, but as Mark Cerny pointed out in the PS5 Deep Dive presentation in March: Sony hasn't simply incorporated every single RDNA 2 PC tech in for the PS5, rather tailor made by collaborating with AMD to understand what exact feature from RDNA 2 sony needs for the PS5. Mark even said when AMD's RDNA 2 gpu's come out and if people see the tech between the desktop GPU and PS5 sharing some commonalities, it means AMD and Sony's collaboration was a success and that AMD found the collab to be invaluable.

I think it is time to let it go honestly. PS5 is a mixture of RDNA1-2. Series X is full RDNA2. Just accept that and move on. We did the same dance with the TF before. Both will be great. The amount of spinning is tiring and it is coming from the same people that say “What matter is games” if that what really matters then stop spinning we all got dizzy.

 

[ghairat]

The Road to PS5 video is perhaps the "Pandora's box" we all need.

 

[Shmunter]

Days Gone v1.7 patch just dropped

 

[hemo memo]

Days Gone v1.7 patch just dropped

Let me guess...faster loading times?

 

[Bojanglez]

I think it is time to let it go honestly. PS5 is a mixture of RDNA1-2. Series X is full RDNA2. Just accept that and move on. We did the same dance with the TF before. Both will be great. The amount of spinning is tiring and it is coming from the same people that say “What matter is games” if that what really matters then stop spinning we all got dizzy.

Although I agree with the overall sentiment that ultimately it is about the games. I just wonder what the evidence is that PS5 is a mixture of RDNA1-2, who is to say it is not (RDNA2 - some features) + some custom features? Not sure what the evidence is of any RDNA1?

 

[Gudji]

Let me guess...faster loading times?

No, NXGamer already tested it and It doesn't change anything on PS4. He will test it on PS5 once the BC embargo ends.

 

[Truth Be Told]

He also forgets that a console having "Full RDNA2" doesn't mean that you can make good games with it.

The Xbox Series X is really the proof of that fact.

Imagine having the "Tower of POWER, Full bells and whistles, etc" and playing Craig and Scorn with it....

 

[Shmunter]

I think it is time to let it go honestly. PS5 is a mixture of RDNA1-2. Series X is full RDNA2. Just accept that and move on. We did the same dance with the TF before. Both will be great. The amount of spinning is tiring and it is coming from the same people that say “What matter is games” if that what really matters then stop spinning we all got dizzy.

Interesting theory. They way I see it, smart money is on PS5 being Rdna2+ based on information speculated over thus far.

But I’m not brash enough to tell others to accept it and move on. Well, because it just comes across as a severe case of vagina.

 

[Felessan]

Feature set. And marketing is conflating architecture with feature set. Any customization on the architecture level means it is not a 100% match to what you see on PC. And even on PC, there are variations. So, the specification is dictated by feature set, which naturally is bound to DirectX support.

It's even more vague. Xbox article only states hardware support for RDNA2 feature set (and specifically RT, Mesh shaders, SRS and VRS) and not that xbox uses RDNA2 hardware implementation for this feature set.

It's basically "we have hardware RT, Mesh shaders, SRS and VRS (this we already knew) anf PS missing some of these four (that we also knew as PS uses geometry engine)"

 

[Shmunter]

Let me guess...faster loading times?

Hopefully 60fps enabled on ps5

 

[hemo memo]

Interesting theory. They way is see it, smart money is on PS5 being Rdna2+ based on information speculated over thus far.

But I’m not brash enough to tell others to accept it and move on. Well, because it just comes across as a server case of vagina.

Well, I have PS5 pre-ordered and i’ll buy my peace of mind. Keep up the fight tho if that’s what you want.

 

[MasterCornholio]

What's wild, all the talk recently made me go back and look at The Road to PS5 again. At around 35:00 Cerny said RDNA 2 cu's....more than once....and that was in a slide. Why did he specifically say RDNA 2 cu's?

Don't know what all that means, but it is interesting now.

I'm guessing he doesn't want people to think they are RDNA1 CUs. I believe he confirms they the CU structure is different between RDNA1 and RDNA2.

 

[hemo memo]

Hopefully 60fps enabled on ps5

I’m sure they’ll take special care of PS+ Collection games hopefully.

 

[FranXico]

Let me guess...faster loading times?

No, load times are slightly increased. But the size decreased significantly. Speculation is that Days Gone adopted Oodle compression, but the PS4 lacks hardware accelerated decompression for it. So, the load times increase.

 

[FranXico]

I'm guessing he doesn't want people to think they are RDNA1 CUs. I believe he confirms they the CU structure is different between RDNA1 and RDNA2.

There is no mention of RDNA1. He makes it clear it's custom, RDNA2 based. Also stresses that the CUs are RDNA2. But clearly, not all of the feature set from RDNA2 is used.

 

[Handy Fake]

So I did some napkin math (and photoshop) using the XSX APU and Navi21XL APU as reference.

This is the only way the PS5 APU would have infinity cache (64MB), and it would be shared between the GPU and CPU at ~305-310mm2:

I'm doubtful PS5 has this setup and not even sure if it's possible for the CPU/GPUs to share cache like this, but the rough math adds up.

I think geordiemp was hypothesising a stripped down variant, an L1 shared cache type thing.

 

[BGs]

You were doing well, then you started talking shit

 

[xacto]

Here’s what happened with all this RDNA stuff:

Xbox fans jumped up and down all over Ps5 when they heard it didn’t use every aspect of RDNA 2.

Then Ps5 fans jumped and down all over XSX when they heard it didn’t use every aspect of RDNA 2.

Now we know XSX does use the full suite, and Ps5 uses a custom amount.

None of this tells us which console plays games better.

You‘re all arguing over nothing.

Games. Are. All. That. Matters.

And right now, Sony have the edge on that aspect.

This is the truth.

It's amazing when you see people fawning over cardboard boxes and techno-babble. It would be so interesting to have someone remember when that sold a console. Yeah, never.

Games. That's all. You have it? Bring it!

You don't? Take a hike.

 

[geordiemp]

I think geordiemp was hypothesising a stripped down variant, an L1 shared cache type thing.

There is 2 aspects, Big L2 and L1 sharing data. Then there is the marking and infinity cache.

There is allot of IPC gains just in L1 data being shared.

 

[Codexer]

 

[hemo memo]

Fake insider

Using this dude as a source lol yeah it was already been said before. He probably read it on here.

 

[Garani]

Doubt we will see any in shops due to COVID
Will most likely be in store pickup and curbside pickup for online orders

Trust me, shops will be open and fully functional. It's that or just lay off everyone.

Just because they can't pixel count doesn't mean they can't tell if it's native 4k or not.

In one of the last videos (the one on MM or Demon Sould. I can't remember which) John esplicitly said that he was not able to tell if it was native 4K or not.

 

[phat_crazy]

Trust me, shops will be open and fully functional. It's that or just lay off everyone.



In one of the last videos (the one on MM or Demon Sould. I can't remember which) John esplicitly said that he was not able to tell if it was native 4K or not.

not according to reports I've read or people close w/ people who work in retail
Sony doesn't want consumers congregating outside or in stores due to the pandemic
They have allotted a certain amount of online stock for launch day and that's it
It will be delivery, curbside, or in store pickup

 

[Garani]

not according to reports I've read or people close w/ people who work in retail
Sony doesn't want consumers congregating outside or in stores due to the pandemic

Sony said that pre-orders would go live the day after price presentation: retail chains didn't give a fuck and went for a quick money grab.

But you see, it's not just the 19th of November that matters. There will be new units coming into shops during December moving forward. The XMas shopping will not go away, it's going to be there. And after that you have people getting gift money and wanting to spend them in January. Trust me, people WILL get into shops and WILL see the boxes side by side: on one side Spiderman MM and on the other side Tetris.

 

[phat_crazy]

Sony said that pre-orders would go live the day after price presentation: retail chains didn't give a fuck and went for a quick money grab.

But you see, it's not just the 19th of November that matters. There will be new units coming into shops during December moving forward. The XMas shopping will not go away, it's going to be there. And after that you have people getting gift money and wanting to spend them in January. Trust me, people WILL get into shops and WILL see the boxes side by side: on one side Spiderman MM and on the other side Tetris.

I'm only referring to launch day
I don't know what Sony is doing after that but all stock for the rest of the year will most likely be online due to the pandemic and congregation whether Sony wants them in stores or not
This will probably extend into 2021

 

[Nickolaidas]

Er loads of people, after that silly tweet, that was taken as fact as usual.

Sircaw, Bo and maybe one more poster are hardly loads of people.

But I get what you're saying, and I agree. FIghting FUD with FUD is petty and makes one just as bad.

MS has kept the apartment as it was and has painted the walls and changed the doors. Sony has changed the structure of the walls and the arrangement of the rooms. But on both floors you can go shit (wc). You can shit standing or sitting but the quality of the shit will apparently be the same, but never identical, everything will depend on what you eat and the effort you make when pressing. But ultimately you will like shit more or less based on your personal tastes, and not because of the shit itself.

I think it's my most disgusting technical answer.

Piss off, Fakinsider.

 

[Gudji]

Piss off, Fakinsider.

In this case he's right.