Riky
$MSFT
Please tell me this is some sort of parody channel.......it has to be surely
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Please tell me this is some sort of parody channel.......it has to be surely
MasterCornholio
Member
In theory the XSX should outperform the PS5 version of games 100% of the time. When it doesn't it raises questions.
Which is why eliminating that misconception of DX makes everything even stranger. If it isn't the software than it must be the hardware.
PaintTinJr
Member
I never use photo mode so I might be a bit fuzzy on the specifics of how it works, but IIRC, the streaming of model (LOD) and mipmap textures, updating of shadow maps, etc - and probably BVH streaming -effectively stops in photo mode - in the context of the game play camera movements at 16.6ms.
With the XsX having one BVH or texture unit per CU - unlike AMD's RDNA2 cards that can do both operations simultaneously - then in photo mode you would expect the engine to recover those units and cache resources used for preparing to render areas on the edge of view frustum. Effectively the engine goes from being cache/unit bottlenecked by time and motion( in game), to being just time limited - less stressed, and because of the lack of motion, the FPS isn't a real measure because some of the fx will be accumulated over many frames - either just the data in caches or the actual shader results, and likely giving big benefits to things like VRS too, which should be amazing when the camera position is fixed.
Lysandros
Member
The thing is XSX isn't objectively 'more powerful' based on theoretical "on paper" specs, unless this spec is conveniently constrained to just one or two GPU metric favoring it.
Lysandros
Member
No, not at all.
MasterCornholio
Member
Very interesting theory but it sounds like it's something that isn't feasible with regular gameplay. Because with regular gameplay developers have to make a choice between RT and texture unit they can't do both at once.
Definitely can explain why we don't see the performance increase in regular gameplay even if the framerate was uncapped.
MasterCornholio
Member
Honestly I think that's why there's so much debate over the XSXs power. People expect it to be superior and when it isn't people question it.
One or two uh?
MasterCornholio
Member
For the GPU?
I thought the main advantage there was the additional CUs. It could very well have more cache per CU but we don't have that information for the PS5. I know that RT scales with CUs so there's definitely an advantage there.
PaintTinJr
Member
Highly unlikely - going by solid state logic's history of being anti-digital mastering(before 2000) which lead to a spin off company called Oxford Digital , which was comprised of Ex-SSL staff that believed in digital being the future.
Sony acquired the company, agreeing to fund a pure digital console, and the world's first all digital console (Sony OXF-R3 or Sony Oxford for short) was eventually the output.
If anything, the Tempest Engine is more likely built on the raft of R&D patents that came out of that product, and nothing to do with SSL, but would be an odd turn of events if it was.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Only if you look at things with a simple mindset of TF > (or select biases)
Which a certain engineer and many, many developers said not to rely on (as the sole metric) going forward. But we've been through this countless times over the past year, why not continue to have amnesia on it.
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Lysandros
Member
Max theoretical floating point throughput and texel fill rate.
MasterCornholio
Member
I guess in situations where a game needs those extra CUs it will have an advantage. But if more pixel fillrate is required then the PS5 should perform better.
What I don't understand is what pixel fillrate means.
I just find strange that now the only thing going for it is the CU's, i don't know. Maybe the pc gamers, should start buying weaker gpus and overclock them. I know that there are advantages on both consoles just comes out weird when people refer to that advantage as only one or two.
MasterCornholio
Member
Well we are just looking at the GPUs. And main difference between the two is the clock speed and the number of CUs. The PS5 has higher clocks while the XSX has more CUs.
We then have some unknowns for the PS5s GPU like the amount of cache.
No idea what you're trying to saying since both GPUs have RDNA2 CUs so essentially they are the same architecture.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
And there is a myriad of other factors like memory, CPU, and I/O latency, etc..
More nuanced discussions got and continue to get drowned out by the majority who don't deep dive into tech talks (Cerny GDC proved that as such, even exposed a lot of "tech channels" ignorance), and are emotionally crushed that their 12>9 I meant 10 simple warfare doesn't always pan out in the real world.
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I'm Not trying to say anything. On pc when I buy a 1080 it is actually more powerful than a 1070 for example. It seems is not the case with consoles, because of the clock speed. I thought it was supposed to have more bandwith etc.
Again or find strange also that an undisputed advantage some months ago now it is not. Like the ssd in the ps5 is superior and that is undisputed. I'm not an hardware engineer so what do I know... I was just trying to figure it out
FrankWza
Member
I meant that it HAS to be more powerful by a long shot to them. They’re not happy if one component is more powerful leading to winning a head to head here or there and the systems being really close. This benchmark just proves what we already knew and does nothing but put a face on one area where the x has an advantage. If, for example , scrolling through the menu faster(just for the sake of argument) proved that the throughput on the PS5 was faster and someone made a video analysis of it, it would be equally ridiculous. We already know it to be true. We don’t need to prove it. It’s part of the reason that it performs the way it does overall. So is the GPU on the x.
We still get parity overall. Each has strengths and weaknesses. But the narrative prelaunch was that multiplats were to be significantly AND consistently better for x. They’re not, and they won’t be. The narrative was,”I’ll get a PS5 down the road for exclusives and an x for everything else”. But now, EVERYTHING else is really close. See? You still HAVE to get a PS5 for the exclusives. But now that everything else is better or close, why get an x? That’s tough to handle.
MasterCornholio
Member
It's not undisputed when you have actual proof with these comparisons. As we can see from all of them the differences on paper doesn't necessarily translate to the actual gameplay.
Also funny that you mentioned CUs because Nvidia GPUs tend to have a lot more than AMD ones. Yet AMD GPUs with much lower TF and CU counts perform similarly to them unless you use RT of course. I think there's more to a GPUs performance than just CU count. Other things matter like the number of shader arrays, size of the cache and clock speed.
Thanks for the explanation.
MasterCornholio
Member
Take into account I'm not an expert so take what I say with a grain of salt. But it's true that CUs are not the only things that can influence a GPUs performance.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Why would I waste my time?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
You know, if they spent as much energy on deep diving alternative tests as to why the PS5 is performing the way it is, instead of cringy photomode tests to support a manufactured narrative, they would probably get closer to the reasons and become enlightened themselves.
But something tells me that's not paying the bills.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
That's a Remedy fuckery going on, see the same red gate reflection on the left as well, they probably went with that design then scrapped it. Seems like the game is still reading that for the reflections.
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FrankWza
Member
Maybe they think it’s a....uninteresting
Bo_Hazem
Banned
I'm 100% sure that they know that, they are intentionally misleading the audience, the uneducated ones.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Oh, kinda like the lack of performance tests for the Halo Infinite gameplay reveal. Instead they put out a goofy deflection fluff piece about lIgHtInG.Maybe they think it’s a....uninteresting
That leash seems to have a certain length.
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Yes as you said. The abstraction layer gets totally compiled out, the output native code is 'optimised' for the specific machine it's been built for
kyliethicc
Member
cMoN iTs JuSt An EaRlY bUiLd MoNtHs AwAy
assurdum
Banned
You talking about bandwidth usage but I'm talking of bandwidth speed. The unified architecture from what I have understood needs to run at the same speed because there is a unified bus for both processors, so GPU and the CPU can't run at different speeds. It's more or less the same argument of CUs and the lower common denominator for the paralellism.
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kyliethicc
Member
thats FF14
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Riky
$MSFT
Maybe because the demo was on PC, so it wouldn't really tell you anything.
FranXico
Member
I loved that educational video about lighting technics where Alex showed how "the games you love" have so many limitations and imperfections (with hand-picked footage of Death Stranding and Horizon).
Those paint drawings were a nice touch, so professional.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
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M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
OH I SEE, FAKE RT, how Sony even recover?!11! Good thing they had Remedy on payroll!!!
kyliethicc
Member
You do realize the game is releasing on PC too? And its funny how Xbox refuse to show any of their games running on actual Xboxes.
Its almost as if its going to look worse on Xbox than what they showed in the demo... ya know that demo that was running on a $3000+ PC rig with like an RTX Titan or 2080 Ti GPU and a CPU that can run circles around whats inside consoles.
Marketing departments do tend to prefer to show the best looking version.
True, you wouldn't make it there, why waste time doing the curriculum.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Demon Souls is also using realtime GI and it is by the best looking game out so far. it's also 60 fps at 1440p. you dont need ray tracing.Control is an interesting case when it tries to do everything, but do we really need all raytracing now? If this is only software-based GI, only RT reflections are needed for full realism:
Control isn't using Geometry Engines and many other performance-efficient tools, nor expecting much from a small studio. Insomniac managed 1600-1080p with RT reflections at 60fps, many particles going around, and still with great city density. This is a muddy phase into this great generation, Death Stranding would've been shockingly realistic if made around PS5 from the ground up.
Imagine what they can do at 1440p 30 fps like the UE demo. They would have 2x the GPU power available for fancier graphical effects.
thinking about this a bit more. I wonder if they can get this downported to the ps4. the pro should be able to handle a 1200p 30 fps version with some small downgrades here and there. the base ps4 can probably run this game at 900p 30 fps. i think the realtime GI goes out for the base versions, but they can use current gen techniques for it.
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ethomaz
Banned
That is not how it works on PC.
The compiled binaries needs to have all the paths for all hardware supported... for example the VRS Tiers are ifs that runs the adequate VRS Tier (No Tier, Tier 1 or Tier 2), if you chance the VGA from RX 580 to 6800 the same binary will start to follow the Tier 2 patch when before it was following the No Tier.
The CPU has do to all that work for every single call... and that is basically the ideia of the unification of SDK called GDK.
It is possible to have a compiled version for Xbox? Yes but how the XB1 CPU worked way below compared with PS4 CPU even having a higher clocks tells me they didn’t do that... if they did then there is something in DX API that eats CPU cycles that is not the ifs of platforms.
That is not everything btw... Hypervisor has a overhead around 2-3% for any type of application you run over it... so it is impossible the Xbox Hypervisor not taking some CPU and GPU performance for the system.
But anybody talks about the Hypervisor? You can see any bench in Servers with Hypervisor and all of them will show overhead but magically people believe in Xbox it is overhead free.
For the games showed until now looks like the PS5 CPU even at lower clock delivery more to developers than Series X’s CPU.
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assurdum
Banned
Dude the picture posted is deceiving. You don't see in middle of the screen the same object reflected on the ground because there is an overlay write above it.
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Exanthus
Banned
Please tell me this is some sort of parody channel.......it has to be surely
Whatever pays the bills
Complete trash though.
How 2 systems priced exactly the same and having virtually the same performance in games is a crushing outcome for any of the manufacturers really is a tale for fanboy fire camps. I could understand your argument if the XSX was priced higher but it’s actually the one lowering the bill the most for gamers thanks to GP, so I fail to see anything other than a warriors attempt to claim victory out of a draw. I’ll personally wait about a year for these systems to reveal what they are really capable of.
kyliethicc
Member
You can buy a PS5 for $400..
MasterCornholio
Member
Gamepass is kind of a flawed argument though because bro every game is released in it. Realistically Microsoft has the cheapest next gen system with the XSS and Sony has the one with the most value with the PS5 DE.
FrankWza
Member
WRONG. All you need to do is go back just before launch. Has nothing to do with pricing. The x was supposed to be THE place for multiplat and the PS5 was going to be a nice little exclusives machine. Now there’s Barely any difference in head to heads and PS5 still has all those exclusives. That’s a HUGE fail for the series x. You can certainly make an argument that, besides them giving away gamepass for $1 with gold, there is hardly a reason to own an x today and for the foreseeable future. When that loophole closes its back to full price and $500 for 3 years vs $180 for ultimate. Especially with what Sony has been putting out on PS Plus.
That’s true if you only consider the hardware but unfortunately those things need games and just the price of Godfall’s digital version at launch can secure over a year worth of game pass ultimate using all the deals available out there so.. ain’t that simple.
MasterCornholio
Member
But you still don't get every single game with gamepass. Anything that you want that's not on the service will cost you 60$-70$.
It clearly provides a lot of value but it's missing a lot of games.
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