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[Zheph]

I want to talk about something

I see many people downplay the importance of ps5 ssd tech

but believe me when u play demons souls .. miles morales you will understand it is like 3 to 4 seconds loading at most but most loadings are neat instant

in destruction all stars it is so deletious it is smooth like butter

it is almost like playing from a cartridge back on the day

yes most what I said revolve around loading time only

but Im confident it will affect gameplay design and worlds in first party or fully exclusive games at least it will change more than load times

it is like a dream come true

They prefer to compare on cross gen games and call Cerny a liar

 

[FranXico]

I want to talk about something

I see many people downplay the importance of ps5 ssd tech

but believe me when u play demons souls .. miles morales you will understand it is like 3 to 4 seconds loading at most but most loadings are neat instant

in destruction all stars it is so deletious it is smooth like butter

it is almost like playing from a cartridge back on the day

yes most what I said revolve around loading time only

but Im confident it will affect gameplay design and worlds in first party or fully exclusive games at least it will change more than load times

it is like a dream come true

Finding good things in the PS5? No, we can't have that.

 

[Mr. PlayStation]

Tell me, how does one PLAY a game in Photo Mode?

It's simple man, Alex describes that photo mode allows your camera to hover across the environment looking at details. You're playing with the camera hence it's real gameplay evaluation

 

[3liteDragon]

The UE5 demo ran at 1440p30 and it was an empty tech demo. A dynamic open world game with those visuals might maybe run on a PS6, but definitely not a PS5.

The final output was a clean, up-sampled 4K frame through temporal reconstruction which was indistinguishable from native 4K where DF couldn't even tell the difference, you wouldn't have even known it was internally running at 1440p if Epic didn't tell you it was. People make it sound like a bad thing but the fact that the console manages to internally render the demo at 1440p even with all that going on, is mighty impressive.

We don't need to wait for a PS6 to see a dynamic OW game with UE5 visuals, you'll see it this gen on PS5, just watch what their first-party studios are gonna come up with.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

So I'm confident PS5 could handle a visually rich open world game which is on par with the UE5 and heck run it 1440P 60 FPS at a minimum.

I'll believe it when I see it. Demon's Souls runs at 1440p60 and that's a game that's way smaller in scope compared to any dynamic open world game.

 

[Riky]

Not to disagree with any of your points but i don't think any of this stuff matters. The gen was decided before it even began. I don't think anyone bought the xsx over the ps5 because of Microsoft's claims. The Xbox fans bought the Xbox and the ps fans bought the ps5.

Ps5 performing better in some games or xsx performing better on other games doesn't really matter. Look at the hitman sales. Xbox was the best selling console in uk in January and yet hitman sold almost all the copies on the ps5.

This gen will play out like last gen. Xbox will compete well in the us and uk. Star citizen and elder scrolls might change things mid to late gen but by then it would be too late and even then they will probably just buy it on pc or wait for the ps5 port. But other than star citizen Microsoft simply cannot stop the juggernaut that is the ps5. Especially not by winning some digital foundry face offs.

Digital foundry is for forum dwellers and Twitter nerds. Most people couldn't care less about hitman running at 1800p.

I actually agree with most of that, only part you missed is that it won't be exactly the same as MS have adjusted their strategy with Game pass and it's no longer purely about hardware sales.
MS will sell less consoles but if they can get to a critical mass of subscribers then they will see this generation as a success regardless.
Example my son has told his four regular online friends about gamepass, they own PCs and have all signed up over lockdown, I took my old Xbox One round to a friend's Friday for his son to have, told him about Gamepass and he signed up there and then, thought it was great value.
So I see a scenario where both Sony and Microsoft can achieve what they want this gen.

 

[Throttle]

I'm giggling a little because of what I'm about to type and the shitshow it caused on this thread in the past week lol

As I've mentioned before, the UE5 demo was designed to showcase the massive amount of polygon rich assets and environments it could load in in realtime. The number of polygons which were being rendered per frame was really insane as well as the ones being culled (culling also has a hit on performance but the net gain is better). Yet the PS5 ran that demo gracefully at 1440P at 30 FPS. Months after the demo was released, Epic stated they could now run that same demo comfortably at 1440P 60 FPS. They could also drop the polygon count significantly to increase the performance even further and drastically reduce the file size and the visual fidelity would remain the same unless you zoom in by 400x.

Open world games by nature are not as geometrically dense per frame compared to a closed environment game or what we saw in the UE5 demo so it's not a good idea making that comparison. We don't even know how UE5 renders things like foliage or even things like reflections etc. We can look at an open world game like Days Gone running on UE4 and it looked stunning running on the PS4 hardware, now lets think about the capabilities of the next-gen hardware as well as the improvements made to UE5 and we can only imagine how good a next-gen open world game would look running on UE5. So I'm confident PS5 could handle a visually rich open world game which is on par with the UE5 and heck run it 1440P 60 FPS at a minimum.

We already saw how good 1440p 60fps can look on PS5 with Demon's Souls. They should aim for that to get the most of the system, while also employing dinamic resolution. 4K is too demanding for little benefit and 30fps is worse to play, so to hell with that!

 

[Lysandros]

people these days does not know what is a real difference

differences these days can not be detected unless you zoom 800 % or 2-3 fps for seconds not detectable unless vg tech or df detect them for fans to brag by these undetectable - in real life - differences

I remember xbox original being like 3 times more powerful than ps2 splinter cell comparison was like night and day

re4 ps2 and gamecube versions looks like a generation apart ... gamecube maybe roughly 2 times more powerful than ps2

these are real differences for you

Maybe Riky is young and did not witness these past generations

but despite ps2 being one of the most gimped systems specs wise it is the most successful console of all time

why u ask??

it has the most diverse catalogue of games most are exclusives

and it has by far the most critically acclaimed games of that generations

That's an old discussion now but the games you used for comparison were made from the ground up for GC/Xbox then ported to PS2 (a wildly different architecture), in a similar case MGS2 performed worse on Xbox. How games like GOW2/MGS3/ZOE2 would fare if ported to GC? In multiplatform games launched in the same time PS2 traded blows with GameCube and came up on top more often than people seem to remember now. Also, do not forget these consoles launched 1.5 years later than PS2, at a time when semi conductor developement was much faster. Yes, Xbox was more powerful but not at everything like particles/alpha pushing where PS2 had an advantage having the highest bandwidth/fill rate of that era by far. In the end PS2 was powerful and bold for its time, somewhat unbalanced/egzotic maybe thus difficult to master, but i don't agree on it being 'gimped'.

 

[Lysandros]

It's simple man, Alex describes that photo mode allows your camera to hover across the environment looking at details. You're playing with the camera hence it's real gameplay evaluation

I told you, he found a way..

 

[mejin]

It's a real steal and it doesn't prevent you from also buying the games that you want. you even get them cheaper.

You do have a choice with GP, but there are pros and cons.

For example, why Hitman 3 is selling so much more on PS5 on UK than the X brothers?

 

[Zoro7]

Digital Foundry shenanigans again

I mean if DF are going to do these kind of videos then surely they have to mention this shit?
Have they responded yet?

 

[Riky]

You do have a choice with GP, but there are pros and cons.

For example, why Hitman 3 is selling so much more on PS5 on UK than the X brothers?

Wasn't that disc sales? The Xbox had a rewards offer for like £5 that encouraged people to buy digitally.

 

[Mr Moose]

Wasn't that disc sales? The Xbox had a rewards offer for like £5 that encouraged people to buy digitally.

Gimme those discs.
Edit: I am a traitor to disc collectors, I bought Cold War digitally because it was cheaper than the disc

 

[Lysandros]

I mean if DF are going to do these kind of videos then surely they have to mention this shit?
Have they responded yet?

Not to this video specifically but the Governor confirmed that all these visual disparities are because of bugs in beyond3d.

 

[mejin]

Wasn't that disc sales? The Xbox had a rewards offer for like £5 that encouraged people to buy digitally.

No doubt digital sales are growing, but this works for all manufacturers.

 

[Banjo64]

I know this is well off topic, so apologies, but I don't think this is thread worthy.

Does anyone have a clue what's going on with the used Vita market?

I have a white 1000 import from Japan, there's practically none on eBay and I'm thinking of selling mine. Wondering if there's a shortage/high demand due to Covid or if it's going to get rarer/more expensive as it's likely to be Sony's last handheld and there's not that many 1000 models in circulation.

 

[kyliethicc]

Not to disagree with any of your points but i don't think any of this stuff matters. The gen was decided before it even began. I don't think anyone bought the xsx over the ps5 because of Microsoft's claims. The Xbox fans bought the Xbox and the ps fans bought the ps5.

Ps5 performing better in some games or xsx performing better on other games doesn't really matter. Look at the hitman sales. Xbox was the best selling console in uk in January and yet hitman sold almost all the copies on the ps5.

This gen will play out like last gen. Xbox will compete well in the us and uk. Star citizen and elder scrolls might change things mid to late gen but by then it would be too late and even then they will probably just buy it on pc or wait for the ps5 port. But other than star citizen Microsoft simply cannot stop the juggernaut that is the ps5. Especially not by winning some digital foundry face offs.

Digital foundry is for forum dwellers and Twitter nerds. Most people couldn't care less about hitman running at 1800p.

Some good points here. (Just a heads up, Todd 'Never Lies" Howard's next game is Starfield not Star Citizen. And its probably coming to PS4/5.)

My boring prediction:

PS5 will outsell PS4 lifetime and continue to be the most popular home gaming console worldwide.
Xbox Series will sell fewer units lifetime than Xbox One and continue to be the least popular gaming platform worlwide.
And Switch will keep selling great too. Most popular (and only) handheld platform.

 

[kyliethicc]

I know this is well off topic, so apologies, but I don't think this is thread worthy.

Does anyone have a clue what's going on with the used Vita market?

I have a white 1000 import from Japan, there's practically none on eBay and I'm thinking of selling mine. Wondering if there's a shortage/high demand due to Covid or if it's going to get rarer/more expensive as it's likely to be Sony's last handheld and there's not that many 1000 models in circulation.

Can the Vita run Knack?

 

[Banjo64]

Can the Vita run Knack?

Through remote play, yes.

 

[LiquidRex]

For the Mods... Is there a thread for this and if not, maybe there should be one on the ethics of such Patents.

 

[kyliethicc]

Through remote play, yes.

But not natively. Thats just a PS4 running it.

IMO if it can't run Knack, then its basically worthless.

 

[Mr Moose]

But not natively. Thats just a PS4 running it.

IMO if it can't run Knack, then its basically worthless.

It can run Persona 4 Golden though.

 

[DJ12]

Not to this video specifically but the Governor confirmed that all these visual disparities are because of bugs in beyond3d.

Lol bugs eh, if the gpu was only showing a 5 percent delta over ps5 they'd have still said tools.

Xbox series x, so big and square so it can fit all the post it notes Ms has wrote their excuses on inside.

 

[assurdum]

I'll believe it when I see it. Demon's Souls runs at 1440p60 and that's a game that's way smaller in scope compared to any dynamic open world game.

This comparison is really a nonsense. I don't even understand why you think UE5 can't handle such graphic in an open world game on ps5 (or serie X if make you feel more comfortable). The point of the nanite tech should be richer polies environment, I/O improved or SSD are there for a reason.

 

[JonkyDonk]

This comparison is really a nonsense. I don't even understand why you think UE5 can't handle such graphic in an open world game on ps5 (or serie X if make you feel more comfortable). The point of the nanite tech is exactly that.

It's weird to me that some people think we've already seen the extent of what PS5 is capable of. As if we had seen the full capability of PS4 after like 3 months, and that console was far less ambitious than PS5.

 

[carloseduardocd]

Yes. Bluepoint told digital foundry they are using a fully realtime global illumination lighting system. Just checked and its at the 6 minute mark in this video.

When i got the platinum trophy on PS5 version, i revisited the old PS3 game.

The higher loading times didn't bother me so much. Graphically it's a massive difference, but ok, i get used. Now, the gameplay, input latency, mechanics, 60fps, dualshock 3 vs dualsense.. Jesus Christ.

 

[MistBreeze]

That's an old discussion now but the games you used for comparison were made from the ground up for GC/Xbox then ported to PS2 (a wildly different architecture), in a similar case MGS2 performed worse on Xbox. How games like GOW2/MGS3/ZOE2 would fare if ported to GC? In multiplatform games launched in the same time PS2 traded blows with GameCube and came up on top more often than people seem to remember now. Also, do not forget these consoles launched 1.5 years later than PS2, at a time when semi conductor developement was much faster. Yes, Xbox was more powerful but not at everything like particles/alpha pushing where PS2 had an advantage having the highest bandwidth/fill rate of that era by far. In the end PS2 was powerful and bold for its time, somewhat unbalanced/egzotic maybe thus difficult to master, but i don't agree on it being 'gimped'.

thanks for your input
I know really that ps2 was a great machines maybe I miss word by saying gimped

it has advantages to other systems and yeah I remember mgs2 comparisons

but I wanted to explain why systems specs is not be all in comparisons between consoles

games and support are the most important things to a console

 

[Lunatic_Gamer]

 

[DJ12]

Another win for series x.

Am I doing it right riky? Lol

 

[sircaw]

those loading times, 1.10 second i think they said haha

Ps5's ssd is a work of wonder.

As this generation rolls on, we are going to keep seeing more benefits of it.

 

[JonkyDonk]

those loading times, 1.10 second i think they said haha

Ps5's ssd is a work of wonder.

As this generation rolls on, we are going to keep seeing more benefits of it.

I expect that once next-gen engines are fully taking advantage of the I/O and compression is done right, games will truly load entire worlds in an instant.

 

[MatrixReloaded101]

Some good points here. (Just a heads up, Todd 'Never Lies" Howard's next game is Starfield not Star Citizen. And its probably coming to PS4/5.)

My boring prediction:

PS5 will outsell PS4 lifetime and continue to be the most popular home gaming console worldwide.
Xbox Series will sell fewer units lifetime than Xbox One and continue to be the least popular gaming platform worlwide.
And Switch will keep selling great too. Most popular (and only) handheld platform.

I don't think it will be that simple...

Let's say the new god of war, horizon FB and ratchet and clank all come out this year. What else does Sony really have left going forward?

While Xbox might have more exclusives due to all of these acquisitions and game pass. Plus what if Halo infinite actually turns out to be a good game.

This gen will be very interesting....

 

[ethomaz]

Another game showing how loading times should be on PS5.

More.
Slower loading times is not last-gen engine issue but dev not using the capabilities of the console.

Is the the cross development with Xbox holding loading times on PS5?

 

[Handy Fake]

No surprise , we actually seem to like Xbox here in the UK , i suspect the S/X will do well here

I frequent a local football board and the amount of folk on there who thought the S was just an X with less resolution was unreal. I think there'll have been a few unhappy bairns at Christmas.

 

[xacto]

For the Mods... Is there a thread for this and if not, maybe there should be one on the ethics of such Patents.

The words "ethics" and "patents" shouldn't be used in the same phrase.

 

[DeepEnigma]

It's simple man, Alex describes that photo mode allows your camera to hover across the environment looking at details. You're playing with the camera hence it's real gameplay evaluation

They all about the walking photo sims now.

PS fanboys have movie games, Xbox fanboys are all about the picture games.

Take that, ponies!

 

[FranXico]

They all about the walking photo sims now.

PS fanboys have movie games, Xbox fanboys are all about the picture games.

Take that, ponies!

No-motion Engine!

 

[MasterCornholio]

Those load times are insane and proves that you need a native version to take full advantage of the I/O. Nioh through BC loads in around 8-10 seconds for comparison and double that if it's off an external drive.

 

[jasondefaoite]

Let's say the new god of war, horizon FB and ratchet and clank all come out this year. What else does Sony really have left going forward?

Just because Microsoft announces games for 2023/2024 (and makes it sound like they are coming this year), and Sony announces games for 2021/2022, it doesn't mean Sony has no games from 2023 onwards. That has to be one of the worst takes I've read in this entire thread.

 

[Neo Blaster]

I don't think it will be that simple...

Let's say the new god of war, horizon FB and ratchet and clank all come out this year. What else does Sony really have left going forward?

While Xbox might have more exclusives due to all of these acquisitions and game pass. Plus what if Halo infinite actually turns out to be a good game.

This gen will be very interesting....

Do you really think Sony announced these games and are just sitting idle counting how many PS5 they sold? All of a sudden SWWS are nowhere to be seen, not to mention other exclusivity deals?


Christ...

 

[MasterCornholio]

I don't think it will be that simple...

Let's say the new god of war, horizon FB and ratchet and clank all come out this year. What else does Sony really have left going forward?

While Xbox might have more exclusives due to all of these acquisitions and game pass. Plus what if Halo infinite actually turns out to be a good game.

This gen will be very interesting....

Naughty Dog, Sucker Punch and Sony Bend? Not to mention 3rd party exclusives from developers like Polyphonic Digital.

Just saying you might be underestimating Sony due to Microsofts acquisitions.

 

[Lysandros]

Apparently XSX can tear in the famous in photo mode/perfect benchmark, look at the very top (from beyond forum). This can possibly have an effect on FPS.

 

[Moridianae]

Really enjoying The Division 2 on PS5 with the patch. It took me a while to readjust my aim running at 60FPS, but once I did, I feel I've got almost an unfair advantage over PS4 players who go Rogue in the Dark Zone.

Game never drops much in heavy fights and the load times aren't bad at all. Doesn't take full advantage of the SSD, but it does load considerably faster than my best friend who is still on PS4.

It seems it does pale to the XSX, but they'll get around to tweaking the minor issues. Besides, it is well known the XSX has much more robust BC tech, which is fine.


Also, gimme that PS5 version of FFXIV with instantaneous teleporting load times.

 

[FranXico]

Apparently XSX can tear in the famous in photo mode/perfect benchmark, look at the very top (from beyond forum). This can possibly have an effect on FPS.

Don't forget the VRR support though!

 

[Lysandros]

Don't forget the VRR support though!

Never.

 

[SSfox]

I don't think it will be that simple...

Let's say the new god of war, horizon FB and ratchet and clank all come out this year. What else does Sony really have left going forward?

While Xbox might have more exclusives due to all of these acquisitions and game pass. Plus what if Halo infinite actually turns out to be a good game.

This gen will be very interesting....

 

[Pjero]

That's an old discussion now but the games you used for comparison were made from the ground up for GC/Xbox then ported to PS2 (a wildly different architecture), in a similar case MGS2 performed worse on Xbox. How games like GOW2/MGS3/ZOE2 would fare if ported to GC? In multiplatform games launched in the same time PS2 traded blows with GameCube and came up on top more often than people seem to remember now. Also, do not forget these consoles launched 1.5 years later than PS2, at a time when semi conductor developement was much faster. Yes, Xbox was more powerful but not at everything like particles/alpha pushing where PS2 had an advantage having the highest bandwidth/fill rate of that era by far. In the end PS2 was powerful and bold for its time, somewhat unbalanced/egzotic maybe thus difficult to master, but i don't agree on it being 'gimped'.

You are wasting your time... Even the dreamcast was more powerful... Oh boy, the magic of powervr tile based deferred rendering... LoL J/K

 

[carloseduardocd]

Loading HD PS4 Pro: 21 seconds
Loading USB PS5 BC mode: 18 seconds
Loading SSD PS5 BC mode: 8 seconds
Loading SSD PS5 Remastered: 1 second.

Same PS5 SSD - 8 seconds to 1 second.

It explains what many noobs can't understand. It's about Software. The source code strategy to load assets from 100~150MB/s storage will never be the same as a 5.5GB/s storage (9GB/s or more with decompression).

 

[DeepEnigma]

Loading HD PS4 Pro: 21 seconds
Loading SSD PS5 BC mode: 18 seconds
Loading SSD PS5 Remastered: 1 second.

Same PS5 SSD - 18 seconds to 1 second.

It explains what many noobs can't understand. It's about Software. The source code strategy to load assets from 100~150MB/s storage will never be the same as a 5.5GB/s storage (9GB/s or more with decompression).

Fanatics be like,

 

[Greggy]

You do have a choice with GP, but there are pros and cons.

For example, why Hitman 3 is selling so much more on PS5 on UK than the X brothers?

I suspect VR support may have something to do with that. I'm personally getting it on PS5 when it gets a bit cheaper so I can try it in VR.