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[Nickolaidas]

I am not a native English speaker - can someone please point out to me the exact moment in that video where Nate claims that the XSX may NOT be more powerful than the PS5? I watched from 28:30 to 57:00 and I didn't hear it.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

Given the time needed to design and launch a console is about 2 years, this ’leak’ is quite likely to be accurate.

The chip would be designed early 2019
Early samples mid 2019!
Near final end of 2019
Production ready early 2020
Launch late 2020

 

[Rightisright]

To be fair the leaks contained usersnames and passwords for internal AMD systems as well as information about other AMD products not just PS5 and XBSEX. The first is enough to take it done ASAP.

That doesn't explain the tweets which contained no such information.

 

[xool]

Did some very simple maths using DemonCleaner 's data .. from https://www.neogaf.com/threads/simulating-gonzalo-rumoured-nextgen-ps5-leak.1493305/

36CUs @ 2GHz would be 145W (die power)

For 56 CUs at iso-power the clock is ~1680MHz - that gives .. 12TF at the same power as the supposed PS5 chip (GPU power only)

Difficult to believe the claims that both perform about the same using this data .. MS built a box that is obviously well designed for cooling .. find it hard to expect that the Xbox2 would have a GPU running under 1.7GHz ..

A few things don't quite add up. Also wouldn't a 36CU APU be bandwidth starved with 256 bit bus @14Gbps - that's the same as an RX5700, but also has an 8 core Zen to feed ..

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

I am not a native English speaker - can someone please point out to me the exact moment in that video where Nate claims that the XSX may NOT be more powerful than the PS5? I watched from 28:30 to 57:00 and I didn't hear it.

Listen from 20:50.

Says it will be a 'little higher' than 10.5TF, minimal spec difference and XSX not necessarily stronger.

 

[Shmunter]

I am not a native English speaker - can someone please point out to me the exact moment in that video where Nate claims that the XSX may NOT be more powerful than the PS5? I watched from 28:30 to 57:00 and I didn't hear it.

At about 21:50, one of the panel puts out the assumption XsX will be more powerful, insider chimes in with “it may not be”

 

[Mass Shift]

Any one here during 2012-2013? This all should be familiar scene right now if you were.

Unfortunately it does. Sony's silence is also a role MS played in that year. Xbox gamers were in deep denial right up until the late summer Hot Chips 2013 conference. It was only when they saw this diagram that most finally gave up the fight because it gave them no place to go. Misterxmedia and his followers would continue his bi-polar campaign for more than a year after this though.

Honestly though, I think we have to wait. It is true, MS seems a great deal more confident and forth coming over power and performance claims. But I'd find it hard to believe Sony doesn't have one or two surprises of their own. So keep the cork on the bottle and keep your champagne on ice because Sony could still deliver a late knock out blow.

And most importantly IF Microsoft has the power/perform crown, please try to be gracious about it. Xbox gamers know how these moments felt, they were demoralized. Don't rub salt into that.

 

[pawel86ck]

If anyone is interested in spawn wave podcast they have an industry insider and he says the Oberon leaks are not the final ps5 .

he mentioned ps5 and xsx are literally same power with the Edge to ps5(exactly what Klee said )

Starts at minute 3

interesting

Thanks. His explanation makes sense and it also aligns with what Klee was saying.

PS5 and Scarlett dev kits - Pastebin.com

Pastebin.com is the number one paste tool since 2002. Pastebin is a website where you can store text online for a set period of time.

pastebin.com

People here thought this pastebin info was a joke, but maybe it wasnt . Around 12 TF for both consoles is exciting.

 

[R600]

Did some very simple maths using DemonCleaner 's data .. from https://www.neogaf.com/threads/simulating-gonzalo-rumoured-nextgen-ps5-leak.1493305/

36CUs @ 2GHz would be 145W (die power)

For 56 CUs at iso-power the clock is ~1680MHz - that gives .. 12TF at the same power as the supposed PS5 chip (GPU power only)

Difficult to believe the claims that both perform about the same using this data .. MS built a box that is obviously well designed for cooling .. find it hard to expect that the Xbox2 would have a GPU running under 1.7GHz ..

A few things don't quite add up. Also wouldn't a 36CU APU be bandwidth starved with 256 bit bus @14Gbps - that's the same as an RX5700, but also has an 8 core Zen to feed ..

Oberon B0 is 18Gbps chip. 530GB/s achieved(probably downclocked slightly).

Ariel is 448GB/s

From May - PCB leak (notice die size and memory speed -18Gbps)



Flute benchmark - July

https://www.cnews.cz/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/AMD-Flute-semicustom-APU-Zen-2-konzole-UserBenchmark-2.png

Memory speed 530GB/s

In any case, I think Ariel was "slow dev kit".

 

[MilkyJoe]

You're already banned from the thread (for obvious reasons) but I've seen this thrown around way too many times. Possible lockhart is much more capable & a generational difference than One X, but at the same time will retail $200 cheaper, despite the One X still retailing for $499 in 2019.

There's no way based on the alleged leak specs of Lockhart, will it be less than $399. It's not as if Phil Spencer came along right after the One X. If MS wanted to be aggressive with their pricing, it would have happened two years ago.

You need to shop around, sausage. 499? Do you only buy on layaway?

 

[MadAnon]

If anyone is interested in spawn wave podcast they have an industry insider and he says the Oberon leaks are not the final ps5 .

he mentioned ps5 and xsx are literally same power with the Edge to ps5(exactly what Klee said )

Starts at minute 3


interesting

Nice advertising of your own pod. Starts at 3 min? As I listen about the games they played instead of the info you said. But congrats, you got the click. Not clicking or listening again.

 

[Aceofspades]

Nice advertising of your own pod. Starts at 3 min? As I listen about the games they played instead of the info you said. But congrats, you got the click. Not clicking or listening again.

Video stamp is wrong, they talk about PS5 around 29 minutes.

 

[-kb-]

Oberon B0 is 18Gbps chip. 530GB/s achieved(probably downclocked slightly).

Ariel is 448GB/s

From May - PCB leak (notice die size and memory speed -18Gbps)



Flute benchmark - July

https://www.cnews.cz/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/AMD-Flute-semicustom-APU-Zen-2-konzole-UserBenchmark-2.png

Memory speed 530GB/s

In any case, I think Ariel was "slow dev kit".

Oberon probably has bandwidth closer to ~540GB/s if its getting an achieved bandwidth of 531.2GB/s. Is there any GDDR6 fast enough for that on a 256bit bus?.

 

[xool]

Oberon probably has bandwidth closer to ~540GB/s if its getting an achieved bandwidth of 531.2GB/s. Is there any GDDR6 fast enough for that on a 256bit bus?.

Think this was discussed before .. iirc the bench includes L2 and L3 cache hits, so the figure can go slightly over the theoretical figure for the chips .

[edit - also 18Gbps chips goes over that 576GB/s]

 

[R600]

Oberon probably has bandwidth closer to ~540GB/s if its getting an achieved bandwidth of 531.2GB/s. Is there any GDDR6 fast enough for that on a 256bit bus?.

18Gbps gives you 576GB/s in theory. In practice, its almost certain Sony and MS will downclock it slightly.

18Gbps is not yet in full production at Samsung, but it exists. Funny, as leaked PCB Dev kit I linked contains that exact chip.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Oberon probably has bandwidth closer to ~540GB/s if its getting an achieved bandwidth of 531.2GB/s. Is there any GDDR6 fast enough for that on a 256bit bus?.

18Gbps chips can give up to 576GB/s

Edit: Beat by a R600.

 

[pawel86ck]

Nice advertising of your own pod. Starts at 3 min? As I listen about the games they played instead of the info you said. But congrats, you got the click. Not clicking or listening again.

They started talking about it at 20 min 30 sec mark.

 

[-kb-]

Think this was discussed before .. iirc the bench includes L2 and L3 cache hits, so the figure can go slightly over the theoretical figure for the chips .

The bench specifically mentions that it has a cache miss, so its not that.

18Gbps gives you 576GB/s in theory. In practice, its almost certain Sony and MS will downclock it slightly.

18Gbps is not yet in full production at Samsung, but it exists. Funny, as leaked PCB Dev kit I linked contains that exact chip.

There we go.

 

[wowbaggerBR]

Thanks for the post . Yea it looks really bad on AMD that these were leaked like that. I have a question fir you .could oberon be the BC test units kept at 36 cu for BC purpose? Something about this chip seems off.it has no vrs, no raytracing etc... i mean if sony is gonna use this chip why are they not laumching in 2019 ?everythung would have been ready for 2019 launch

Yes, I think it's possible, but it is hard to tell for sure. As people are pointing out, it could be that, could be related to an older set of tests, or maybe there is a PS5 Lockhart excuse for a console after all or simply Sony went for a much more conservative approach, which is sad.

I tend to be a realitst and, Occam's Razor applyied, I'm simply leaning towards a 9,2 TF PS5 at the momment.

EDIT: but really, the repo's content is very weird. It's nothing like a bona fide engineer would post publicly. Hell, you don't have to be an engineer to know that you should not mix personal files and random shit with work stuff.

I'm a programmer too (I work for a very small company though, so things can be more chaotic than in a large corporation), and while I mostly try to write sensible commit messages (like $CLIENT-$ISSUE: $EXPLANATION_OF_WHAT_IS_BEING_COMMITED), especially for clients I basically take care of myself alone there can be many commits which are just "prkl" (which is shorthand for "perkele", perhaps the best Finnish swear word). For stupid things like forgetting to commit one file more, or having a typo somewhere.

For a company size of AMD, one should expect more professionalism, no question. But having nonsensical commit messages is hardly unheard of. (this is not to say anything about the validity of that GitHub data, just a general observation)

...oooh, but I just thought of something. What company bought GitHub a little while back? It's tinfoil hat time!

But this is way too much high profile of a work for that behaviour. Most of the commits didn't had any comment, the ones that had just had things like the 'kkkkk'. The code is simple, just a bunch of python scripts for testing, but still, I find it hard to believe that a AMD engineer would structure it that way and leave it publicly available to anyone curious enough to just type "oberon arden" on GitHub's search: no kidding, it was the first hit!

 

[chemical boy]

Now I am calm. After all the information collected over these months and especially these last hours, I am sure that PS5 is a potential leader. I think that in the background this “leak” has been very good for Sony since its announcement will be even more impressive, a MEGATON that will leave some people very touched and with their credibility for the floors. Now I can say with total certainty that PS5> XboxSX and that the silence is rumored because we are very close to the revelation, possibly at CES. Just look at the small details, in fact I am willing to use the Xbox logo as an avatar for 3 years if my prediction is wrong, I apologize to Klee if at any time I doubted his data, he was right. And no, I don't have inside information, but the data is out there ... you just have to form the puzzle.

 

[R600]

Now I am calm. After all the information collected over these months and especially these last hours, I am sure that PS5 is a potential leader. I think that in the background this “leak” has been very good for Sony since its announcement will be even more impressive, a MEGATON that will leave some people very touched and with their credibility for the floors. Now I can say with total certainty that PS5> XboxSX and that the silence is rumored because we are very close to the revelation, possibly at CES. Just look at the small details, in fact I am willing to use the Xbox logo as an avatar for 3 years if my prediction is wrong, I apologize to Klee if at any time I doubted his data, he was right. And no, I don't have inside information, but the data is out there ... you just have to form the puzzle.

No.

 

[molly14]

Yeah@ Chemical Boy, the actual ps5 specs will probably be around 13tf like the original leak,so much crow will have to be eaten by people when the specs are finally released,sure going to be fun in these forums

 

[pawel86ck]

No.

Whats wrong with you man? For some reason you must correct (and sometimes disrespect) all people who share different opinions than yours.

 

[MadAnon]

They started talking about it at 20 min 30 sec mark.

I don't care anymore. Said I'm not clicking that thing again.

 

[R600]

Whats wrong with you man? For some reason you must correct (and sometimes disrespect) all people who share different opinions than yours.

Just sharing my opinion. Didnt tell him not to post it, only that I disagree with some kind of big Sony conspiracy to lure MS and provide "megaton".

 

[Gamernyc78]

My green team brethren and my blue team brothers, let's all hold hands and be happy tht a new gen is upon us, forget the bickering. I would be the first to extend my hand but most I have on ignore

 

[pawel86ck]

I don't care anymore. Said I'm not clicking that thing again.

It's long video, but to make long story short, these 9TF leaks are related to old PS5 tests, and retail PS5 should be as fast as XSX.

 

[Aceofspades]

Just sharing my opinion. Didnt tell him not to post it, only that I disagree with some kind of big Sony conspiracy to lure MS and provide "megaton".

You are treating "your opinion" as a fact, it might hold more weight to it than other opinions but you come out as rude

 

[chemical boy]

Read Panello statement about the testing date and final retail production

What did Pannello say in 2013 regarding Xbox One and PS4? You are being guided by the wrong people.

 

[nowhat]

But this is way too much high profile of a work for that behaviour. Most of the commits didn't had any comment, the ones that had just had things like the 'kkkkk'. The code is simple, just a bunch of python scripts for testing, but still, I find it hard to believe that a AMD engineer would structure it that way and leave it publicly available to anyone curious enough to just type "oberon arden" on GitHub's search: no kidding, it was the first hit!

As said - it's tinfoil hat time! Would it be beyond the company that (unintentionally) coined the term FUD to also spread FUD by a community-accepted site they've aquired?

(I'm mostly kidding, I'll still leave my tinfoil hat off for the time being. But also, that GitHub data should be taken with several grains of salt.)

 

[xool]

If anyone is interested in spawn wave podcast they have an industry insider and he says the Oberon leaks are not the final ps5 .

he mentioned ps5 and xsx are literally same power with the Edge to ps5(exactly what Klee said )

Starts at minute 3

interesting

It's just some dude in their basements bullshitting each other on a live stream (I saw a girl too so obviously fake)

They weren't wearing suits, why should I believe them?

/s

 

[it_wasn't_me]

Don't worry Xbox people, there is still hope for you about PS5 to be weak crap

 

[Agnostic2020]

Nice advertising of your own pod. Starts at 3 min? As I listen about the games they played instead of the info you said. But congrats, you got the click. Not clicking or listening again.

Lol wtf its not my vide. Video changed its now at 20:30.

 

[Gamernyc78]

Don't worry Xbox people, there is still hope for you about PS5 to be weak crap

Lol the state of things is sad why would ppl care so much. I just want my Horizon 2 sequel, possibke Bloodborne 2 or Demon Souls Remastered, GOW, TLOU 2,etc As long as I know I'm getting most of those I'm there day 1

 

[Fake]

Do you guys a favor and put all the neo members who just create an acc to post here in this thread at your ignore list.

 

[Rightisright]

I'm actually not sure why this has all blown up now.
The 9.2tflop 2ghz leaks came out in August.

For what it's worth, I hope they come out with the exact same spec, with the only difference being the secret sauce from each company.
If one system is of lower specs, and that system sells the most consoles as you would expect Sony to do, its not great for the progression of games.

 

[molly14]

imagine Gran Turismo on a near 13 TF ps5 to and forza on a 12tf XBOX console,

 

[CyberPanda]

Can we all get back to a proper discussion? Jesus Christ this thread has turned into a dumpster fire.

 

[TLZ]

I am not a native English speaker - can someone please point out to me the exact moment in that video where Nate claims that the XSX may NOT be more powerful than the PS5? I watched from 28:30 to 57:00 and I didn't hear it.

At about 20.45 when spawnwave asks/tells him whether the leaked GitHub docs might be old, Nate clearly says "the information is inaccurate". Then spawnwave tells him he thinks it's around 10-10.5tf and Nate says it'll be a little higher.

 

[R600]

I'm actually not sure why this has all blown up now.
The 9.2tflop 2ghz leaks came out in August.

For what it's worth, I hope they come out with the exact same spec, with the only difference being the secret sauce from each company.
If one system is of lower specs, and that system sells the most consoles as you would expect Sony to do, its not great for the progression of games.

Its because only details regarding Oberon that leaked by Komachi were clocks (native, BC1 and BC0).

Now CUs, bandwidth, cache bandwidth and million other things leaked.

 

[stopitgetsomehelp]

Don't worry Xbox people, there is still hope for you about PS5 to be weak crap

lol, why you're trying start console war in this thread?

I think I'll buy XSX 1st day cause I love Halo and I love Game Pass. But I want PS5 with power close/above & equal price compared to new Xbox. If not - we'll see Lockhart ~4 TH on market. Not good for games IMO.

Do you guys a favor and put all the neo members who just create an acc to post here in this thread at your ignore list.

bro, don't tar everyone with the same brush

 

[TLZ]

Just sharing my opinion. Didnt tell him not to post it, only that I disagree with some kind of big Sony conspiracy to lure MS and provide "megaton".

Wheres the conspiracy? He sounded more like hopeful and optimistic.

 

[eastwood333]

The evidence of XSX being more powerful (XSX 12tf vs PS5 9.2tf) is starting to pile up. From Tom Warren,WindowsCentral,rogame,Komachi,DF own sources,Dylan522p,Arthur Gies,RedTechGaming,to Phils own words in being very confident XSX will be the most powerful next gen console.

I guess we'll find out how important power is after final specs of both are confirmed.

 

[Nickolaidas]

Listen from 20:50.

Says it will be a 'little higher' than 10.5TF, minimal spec difference and XSX not necessarily stronger.

At about 21:50, one of the panel puts out the assumption XsX will be more powerful, insider chimes in with “it may not be”

At about 20.45 when spawnwave asks/tells him whether the leaked GitHub docs might be old, Nate clearly says "the information is inaccurate". Then spawnwave tells him he thinks it's around 10-10.5tf and Nate says it'll be a little higher.

My thanks to all three of you!

Frankly, I don't want the XSX to be much more powerful than the PS5.

I don't want the PS5 to be much more powerful than the XSX.

I want them to be on equal terms and each console able to floor me with its exclusives. I enjoy them both.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

Did half of GameFAQ’s / System Wars invade the board over night?

 

[it_wasn't_me]

lol, why you're trying start console war in this thread?

I think I'll buy XSX 1st day cause I love Halo and I love Game Pass. But I want PS5 with power close/above & equal price compared to new Xbox. If not - we'll see Lockhart ~4 TH on market. Not good for games IMO.



bro, don't tar everyone with the same brush

I think you're LTTP for a year now. Btw. I didn't started it

 

[Darius87]

But...PS5 is 36CU 256bit part...?

if it would be 40cu it would be around 280mm2 die size that's just 29mm2 more then 5700xt and PCB leak says it's ~22.4mm by ~14.1mm which is 315mm2.

That's 10 TFLOPS RDNA which is around 0.9% stronger than XSX if XSX is 9.3 TF RDNA

it's not gcn it's rdna 2

 

[it_wasn't_me]

it's not gcn it's rdna 2

What?

 

[Darius87]

i did some reseach and good news is if we take into consideration PCM leak was


that's with 7nm litography with 7nm+(EUV) die size of 316nm2 could hold 56CU's with a bit real estate left, so 52CU at 2Ghz gets us 13+ Tflops for PS5.

That's 10 TFLOPS RDNA which is around 0.9% stronger than XSX if XSX is 9.3 TF RDNA

it's not gcn it's rdna 2

What?

 

[Marlenus]

Let's be real here.

PS5 and Xbox SEX are going to have very similar hardware. They are both using rdna2 and zen2 on 7nm euv manufactured at TSMc with GDDR6 ram.

The only reason for there to be performance differences is if there is a price difference or one company is willing to have a larger loss leader.

Based on leaks for Milan (zen3) it seems that 7nm euv only allows another 100-200Mhz at the same power consumption so I find it unlikely that either company is planning a 2GHz GPU clockspeed. I just can't see it being in the perf/watt sweet spot unless rdna2 clocks a lot higher than rDNA through architectural changes. It seems far more sane to go for a larger chip with more transistors but lower clocks. Having said that the optimum die size, performance, power envelope depends on a lot of facts we just do not know.

Ultimately I still believe both consoles will be in the 12 TFlop region (so roughly equivalent to the performance of a 15-16 Tflop GCN based chip) if the target launch price is around $399 - $449. This is still around 8x more than OG PS4 and represents a pretty standard increase in gpu capabilities. The CPU will be far stronger as well with much higher clocks and a massive IPC increase.