Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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David Ricardo said:
They said just today that their timing will be comparable to what they did the last time.

But what you said about showing what they want made me think. If they are as close in performance as many are saying, let's say PS5 is 12.9 and Series X 12.1. That's close enough so Microsoft could overclock their APU to bridge the gap. So, in that case, would it make sense for Sony to say their exact teraflop numbers at this point in time? Wouldn't it be wiser to wait until after E3 when it would be too late for Microsoft to react?
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I think about it this way. If they have enough exciting talking points, they won't talk specs until later.

if they don't have enough to discuss other than specs, they may wait to say anything.
 
BGs said:
But if they don't do it before I hope they do it during. Otherwise I will make a useless trip.
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giphy.gif
 
BGs said:
True. Sony has no need to present PS5 before the GDC. But if they don't do it before I hope they do it during. Otherwise I will make a useless trip. I do not know if is understandable what I'm trying to say. I suppose that if a situation is not going to exist we will be notified in time. I hope.
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HawarMiran said:
I don't know, some Xbox guys think Sony is bad at engineering consoles, because a mid-gen refresh that came out one year later and costs 100 dollars more, is more powerful. Only reason I think Xbox could be more powerful is that their console has that tower like form factor. If Sony goes the way of a traditional console form factor there is only so much they can put into it. But Sony didn't show anything yet so for me they are close to Series X until proven otherwise. Sony brought out 4 consoles and never cheaped out compared to the competition
Click to expand...

They technically didn't cheap out with the original Playstation as it contains H/W accelerated polygon rendering of an expensive SGI workstation of the time, but they still did the unthinkable and didn't provide a z-buffer like their competitors did(Saturn/N64) in the move to 3D consoles. It later showed that Sony were better at reading the market requirements, being able to prioritize features that would meet or exceed gamer expectations in that price point, and use software ingenuity to live with their weakness until the following generation.

In many ways, the transition to real-time Ray Tracing on ever growing TV resolution standards presents that same problem for Sony and Microsoft with XsX and PS5. They'll almost certainly have to choose a weakness that is the lesser of two evils to make the transition to RT graphics as the new default, and I suspect TF numbers alone is not going to be the panacea, in the same way better 3D performance being data starved by cartridge wasn't able to compete back in the day.

In the event one company chooses wrong in the eyes of gamers I suspect they will be accused of cheaping out :)
 
Greg Miller on PS XOXO this week,

"I have a couple of embargoed things that are happening pretty imminently, that are so fucking cool, but I can't talk about, but its that thing (cutting out where he gets sidetracked) where these two things, these awesome things that are so close, aren't close enough I can't commit any time to other things."

Here
 
schaft0620 said:
Greg Miller on PS XOXO this week,

"I have a couple of embargoed things that are happening pretty imminently, that are so fucking cool, but I can't talk about, but its that thing (cutting out where he gets sidetracked) where these two things, these awesome things that are so close, aren't close enough I can't commit any time to other things."

Here
Click to expand...

In other words, soon
 
Neo Blaster said:
Huh, Klee and Osiris both say PS5 > XSX.

Xbox shills are funny, they really embrace GitHub leaks as fact, even though there's nothing official yet. So far, it can be PS5 < XSX, PS5 = XSX or PS5 > XSX.
Click to expand...
"xbox shills" as you take Klee and Osiris as gospel over actual data. (two people with zero history and are both 3rd person accounts)
 
schaft0620 said:
Greg Miller on PS XOXO this week,

"I have a couple of embargoed things that are happening pretty imminently, that are so fucking cool, but I can't talk about, but its that thing (cutting out where he gets sidetracked) where these two things, these awesome things that are so close, aren't close enough I can't commit any time to other things."

Here
Click to expand...
Okay then...
 
schaft0620 said:
Greg Miller on PS XOXO this week,

"I have a couple of embargoed things that are happening pretty imminently, that are so fucking cool, but I can't talk about, but its that thing (cutting out where he gets sidetracked) where these two things, these awesome things that are so close, aren't close enough I can't commit any time to other things."

Here
Click to expand...
oh god more teasing.

#CancelGregMiller!!!
 
schaft0620 said:
Greg Miller on PS XOXO this week,

"I have a couple of embargoed things that are happening pretty imminently, that are so fucking cool, but I can't talk about, but its that thing (cutting out where he gets sidetracked) where these two things, these awesome things that are so close, aren't close enough I can't commit any time to other things."

Here
Click to expand...

Is imminently sooner than soon!?
 
Mriverz said:
any rumours on psvr2? Trying to imagine a 4k (or 1440) Re8 first person on the new vr 😱😱
Click to expand...

Sorry for shilling!!! I have a news round-up for you

lordsofgaming.net

What Could A Next Gen PS VR2 Look Like? - Lords of Gaming

While the near hourly rumor mill endlessly spins around social media with any drip of information about next-generation consoles. We have been busy sleuthing to find any new information on the often overlooked Playstation VR successor. Sony has yet to even confirm the existence of a PSV R2...
lordsofgaming.net
 
sonomamashine said:
"FLASHBOLT" 16GB
wccftech.com

Samsung Unveils 'Flashbolt' 3rd Gen HBM2E 16 Gb Memory, Up To 3.2 Gbps Pin Speeds

Samsung nnounced the market launch of ‘Flashbolt’, its third-generation High Bandwidth Memory 2E (HBM2E) at a capacity of 16 GB.
wccftech.com wccftech.com
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No, they have scaling for their HBM2. Also, 16gb is "gigabit", i.e 2 gigabytes. HBM2 still isn't that cheap and clients can customize orders i.e halving the amount of memory per stack.

If 32GB would cost too much (and for a game console aiming for $399 or even $499 realistically, it would be), a company would probably rather cut down on the total amount to something more manageable but keep the bus rather wide (since that's one of HBM's selling points). Plus, the bandwidth per stack stays the same regardless of the amount of memory on the stack, same with the bus width. Those would only scale upward if more stacks are present but their price only increases in relation to number of stacks and how much memory is in the stack.

So to keep BOMs manageable and still provide something of a selling point hardware-wise, makes more sense to cut the RAM amount to 16GB on two 1024-bit stacks. There would be a lot of benefits for that with gaming-related tasks even if many gaming algorithms and such use mastered/matured compression techniques.

David Ricardo said:
They said just today that their timing will be comparable to what they did the last time.

But what you said about showing what they want made me think. If they are as close in performance as many are saying, let's say PS5 is 12.9 and Series X 12.1. That's close enough so Microsoft could overclock their APU to bridge the gap. So, in that case, would it make sense for Sony to say their exact teraflop numbers at this point in time? Wouldn't it be wiser to wait until after E3 when it would be too late for Microsoft to react?
Click to expand...

Neither company has to actually make those kind of adjustments as a reaction to what the other one does; if they see a path internally to increase system capability by pushing the clocks up, and performance doesn't take a hit and no further components have to be added to the BOM to manage the increases...they will do the increase. MS and Sony do not have to wait on each other to show anything to do these kind of things, they are both going to want to maximize the performance of their specs.

The main reason MS reacted with increasing clocks in XBO was because they hadn't even designed XBO as a primary gaming device in mind, so they did not have the mindset to maximize the specs they had because that would have been "overkill" for what they assumed was already more than strong enough for multimedia functionality. When the "TV TV TV!" multimedia focus backfired, they had to reorient the focus with the hardware at the last minute so they took advantage of headroom already there, and bumped up the clocks a bit.

Things are different this time, however; they are clearly developing XSX with gaming as its primary focus, so they aren't going to wait until Sony "reminds" them, in order to take advantage of the maximum potential of what specs they already have. At the first available opportunity these internal teams see room for an increase, they will push for those increases (again, considering as long as they don't require additional costs in components to implement, otherwise further verification from higher-ups (suits) would be needed to OK things so they could implement such things).

Same thing applies to Sony, assuming they are designing PS5 with same focus as PS4 and I'm assuming they are.
 
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o'dium said:
Oh no, not the two GPU train again 🤣
Click to expand...

I could almost deal with the dual gpu work up, or even the the extra CUs in chiplet. But for me to start believing that a secret APU that's just waiting around to replace Oberon is quite a stretch.

It would totally shatter the github leaks but it sounds too much like a Misterxmedia like fantasy.
 
Mass Shift said:
I could almost deal with the dual gpu work up, or even the the extra CUs in chiplet. But for me to start believing that a secret APU that's just waiting around to replace Oberon is quite a stretch.

It would totally shatter the github leaks but it sounds too much like a Misterxmedia like fantasy.
Click to expand...
Once again, there's context lacking here. How do you know those were all the data there was to be leaked? And if they are real, how do they apply to the final PS5 version?
 
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schaft0620 said:
Greg Miller on PS XOXO this week,

"I have a couple of embargoed things that are happening pretty imminently, that are so fucking cool, but I can't talk about, but its that thing (cutting out where he gets sidetracked) where these two things, these awesome things that are so close, aren't close enough I can't commit any time to other things."

Here
Click to expand...
This thing, that thing. Things.

So basically 'Soon'

Sony already giving us blue balls and now the insiders too. I feel like getting my balls removed altogether. I can't handle any more of this cryptic clues shit.
 
thicc_girls_are_teh_best said:
No, they have scaling for their HBM2. Also, 16gb is "gigabit", i.e 2 gigabytes. HBM2 still isn't that cheap and clients can customize orders i.e halving the amount of memory per stack.

If 32GB would cost too much (and for a game console aiming for $399 or even $499 realistically, it would be), a company would probably rather cut down on the total amount to something more manageable but keep the bus rather wide (since that's one of HBM's selling points). Plus, the bandwidth per stack stays the same regardless of the amount of memory on the stack, same with the bus width. Those would only scale upward if more stacks are present but their price only increases in relation to number of stacks and how much memory is in the stack.

So to keep BOMs manageable and still provide something of a selling point hardware-wise, makes more sense to cut the RAM amount to 16GB on two 1024-bit stacks. There would be a lot of benefits for that with gaming-related tasks even if many gaming algorithms and such use mastered/matured compression techniques.



Neither company has to actually make those kind of adjustments as a reaction to what the other one does; if they see a path internally to increase system capability by pushing the clocks up, and performance doesn't take a hit and no further components have to be added to the BOM to manage the increases...they will do the increase. MS and Sony do not have to wait on each other to show anything to do these kind of things, they are both going to want to maximize the performance of their specs.

The main reason MS reacted with increasing clocks in XBO was because they hadn't even designed XBO as a primary gaming device in mind, so they did not have the mindset to maximize the specs they had because that would have been "overkill" for what they assumed was already more than strong enough for multimedia functionality. When the "TV TV TV!" multimedia focus backfired, they had to reorient the focus with the hardware at the last minute so they took advantage of headroom already there, and bumped up the clocks a bit.

Things are different this time, however; they are clearly developing XSX with gaming as its primary focus, so they aren't going to wait until Sony "reminds" them, in order to take advantage of the maximum potential of what specs they already have. At the first available opportunity these internal teams see room for an increase, they will push for those increases (again, considering as long as they don't require additional costs in components to implement, otherwise further verification from higher-ups (suits) would be needed to OK things so they could implement such things).

Same thing applies to Sony, assuming they are designing PS5 with same focus as PS4 and I'm assuming they are.
Click to expand...
They choose their clockspeed according to their budget and performance targets. Raising the clocks costs money because you are going to have to throw away apus that were viable at 1.7 Ghz but are not fit to run at 1.8Ghz.
 
David Ricardo said:
They choose their clockspeed according to their budget and performance targets. Raising the clocks costs money because you are going to have to throw away apus that were viable at 1.7 Ghz but are not fit to run at 1.8Ghz.
Click to expand...

Yes that's partly true but it's also pretty clear they design their chips to have some room for upclocks, too. MS already did this with XBO, and PC GPU cards do this all the time, that's why they usually have three effective clocks. If you want the extra performance, you upclock the card.

It's only when upclocks go well beyond the headroom where the problems you mention usually come into play, but most companies wouldn't initiate a design process where that type of mistake actually happens.
 
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Hawking Radiation said:
This thing, that thing. Things.

So basically 'Soon'

Sony already giving us blue balls and now the insiders too. I feel like getting my balls removed altogether. I can't handle any more of this cryptic clues shit.
Click to expand...

Before the dawn but after night.

Nothing follows, but rightisright.

The moon above, bowstring tight.

The balls have dropped, blue and bright.
 
Mass Shift said:
I could almost deal with the dual gpu work up, or even the the extra CUs in chiplet. But for me to start believing that a secret APU that's just waiting around to replace Oberon is quite a stretch.

It would totally shatter the github leaks but it sounds too much like a Misterxmedia like fantasy.
Click to expand...

Long live HBM2+ Dual Gpu Dream!
tenor.gif
 
Neo Blaster said:
Once again, there's context lacking here. How do you know those were all the data there was to be leaked? And if they are real, how do they apply to the final PS5 version?
Click to expand...

There isn't a heck of alot of time left to bring on another APU this late in the game. If Oberon was being tested six months before the github leaks, there's a very good chance it represents what we're getting in the final version.

9.2 - 10.2 with Zen2 is still a great gaming device.
 
thicc_girls_are_teh_best said:
Yes that's partly true but it's also pretty clear they design their chips to have some room for upclocks, too. MS already did this with XBO, and PC GPU cards do this all the time, that's why they usually have three effective clocks. If you want the extra performance, you upclock the card.

It's only when upclocks go well beyond the headroom where the problems you mention usually come into play, but most companies wouldn't initiate a design process where that type of mistake actually happens.
Click to expand...
Isn't this like the opposite to what you said in your previous message, where you argued that XBO had headroom because they were all about tv tv tv but with Series X they were going to maximize performance, so it wouldn't matter when Sony reveals specs because MS wouldn't be able to raise their clocks to bridge the gap?
 
Mass Shift said:
There isn't a heck of alot of time left to bring on another APU this late in the game. If Oberon was being tested six months before the github leaks, there's a very good chance it represents what we're getting in the final version.

9.2 - 10.2 with Zen2 is still a great gaming device.
Click to expand...
And how can you say those were the only ones being tested? How can you even be sure they are what you think? Once again, context and completeness.
 
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Mass Shift said:
There isn't a heck of alot of time left to bring on another APU this late in the game. If Oberon was being tested six months before the github leaks, there's a very good chance it represents what we're getting in the final version.

9.2 - 10.2 with Zen2 is still a great gaming device.
Click to expand...
I think that would have been enough time for a new APU. But the fact that Oberon went from A0 in June to B0 to C0 to D0 and E0 in December says that they intend to use this APU. There's no point in having a redundant APU go through five iterations (basically small redesigns because of bugs). While Microsoft does A0 of their APU and calls it a day.
 
Neo Blaster said:
And how can you say those were the only ones being tested? How can you even be sure they are what you think? Once again, context and completeness.
Click to expand...
Not to mention that a 36 CU RDNA GPU at 2 Ghz generates as much heat as a 56 CU RDNA GPU at 1.7 while performing 25% worse. Those are some really bad engineers working at Sony /s
 
So with NVIDIA's ampere supposedly being 70% more powerful than 2080Ti, with its 7nm process and microarchitecture changes, AMD's RDNA 2 2080Ti GPU 'killer' and XsX & PS5 RDNA 1 or RDNA 1.5 will be dead on arrival?

I cant even fathom what this 70% improvement will be. 4k at 240fps? 8k at 120 fps?
 
Uh.. anyone notice the official PS5 website wording has changed to:

We've begun to share some of the incredible features you can expect from PlayStation 5, but we're not quite ready to fully unveil the next generation of PlayStation. Sign up below to be among the first to receive updates as we announce them, including news on the PS5 release date, PS5 price and the upcoming roster of PS5 launch games.


https://www.playstation.com/en-nz/explore/ps5/#
 
Kazekage1981 said:
So with NVIDIA's ampere supposedly being 70% more powerful than 2080Ti, with its 7nm process and microarchitecture changes, AMD's RDNA 2 2080Ti GPU 'killer' and XsX & PS5 RDNA 1 or RDNA 1.5 will be dead on arrival?

I cant even fathom what this 70% improvement will be. 4k at 240fps? 8k at 120 fps?
Click to expand...
And only 100% more expensive nvidia will be generous this time lol /s.
 
Kazekage1981 said:
So with NVIDIA's ampere supposedly being 70% more powerful than 2080Ti, with its 7nm process and microarchitecture changes, AMD's RDNA 2 2080Ti GPU 'killer' and XsX & PS5 RDNA 1 or RDNA 1.5 will be dead on arrival?

I cant even fathom what this 70% improvement will be. 4k at 240fps? 8k at 120 fps?
Click to expand...

Maybe to PC players. I'm reasonably sure players who game on just console will be happy with what we get. Those that compare console vs. high end PC are either looking to brag on PC prowess/Bag on Console gaming or expect Supercar Performance at budget prices.
 
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