Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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The huge SSD deficit may be a completely moot point if no devs whatsoever even take advantage of it and people are unable to purchase additional storage for the next few years because it's "so advanced"

The SSD might actually be what hinders the ps5 rather than propel it.

In other words, it could backfire and end up as another disadvantage vs the XsX.

It's so good it becomes bad. That's your pitch? The hot takes keep on coming. Let's try and keep it level headed yes?

Everything the XSX SSD will be good at, PS5 SSD will do it twice as fast. This isn't a pandora box that devs don't know what to do with.
 
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Wow.. that was something else.. But fingerprints? Probably implemented on the PS logo in the middle then?
But other than automatically signing in with the right account, I can't really see other benefits gameplay wise?
Only thing I can come up with on the dime, is a game mechanic that requires you to pass off the controller or something, and the game knows is you really have or not.. We have to ask Kojima, he could probably find a use-case for it:)

Edit: wrong replypost:-/
 
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The huge SSD deficit may be a completely moot point if no devs whatsoever even take advantage of it and people are unable to purchase additional storage for the next few years because it's "so advanced"

The SSD might actually be what hinders the ps5 rather than propel it.

In other words, it could backfire and end up as another disadvantage vs the XsX.
Sooner or later? How long? A month? Three? A year or two?

I can see it now... one day out of the blue a year after launch Sony puts out a blog post revealing the 2 official certified speed matching SSD Drives and everyone gets excited only to be hit with a cost of 300 to 400 each for a paltry 500gb to 1TB of space.

Either that or they have to go ahead and certify slower speed SSD drives that can't take advantage of all the magical advantages the SSD was supposed to provide in the first place.

More fan-fiction, great.
 
Sooner or later? How long? A month? Three? A year or two?

I can see it now... one day out of the blue a year after launch Sony puts out a blog post revealing the 2 official certified speed matching SSD Drives and everyone gets excited only to be hit with a cost of 300 to 400 each for a paltry 500gb to 1TB of space.

Either that or they have to go ahead and certify slower speed SSD drives that can't take advantage of all the magical advantages the SSD was supposed to provide in the first place.


This is just hyperbole you're literally saying they have no idea and these things aren't planned out of in advance of course they will have a solution for upgradable storage that won't cost 300-400 dollars lol give them chance to reveal something 99% of post's about these consoles performance and other bits are pure speculation untill we get official info .
 
It's so good it becomes bad. That's your pitch? The hot takes keep on coming. Let's try and keep it level headed yes?

Everything the XSX SSD will be good at, PS5 SSD will do it twice as fast. This isn't a pandora box that devs don't know what to do with.
More fan-fiction, great.

Just playing devil's advocate haha

Nothing else to do until games are shown :(

At this point people are dancing around forums with silly fantasies of theoreticsl system advantages for both systems and it got old weeks ago.
 
I may have misinterpreted @protonion's post. Apologies if so.

Personally I was hoping that those memory card patents were a possible SSD drive akin to MS's nice idea. Sony has history with memory cards for playstation consoles. What a great time to bring them back and even the concept designs for them are great. Here's hoping that Sony does indeed consider creating an SSD drive themselves.
As long as they don't take royalties from 3rd party
 
Tequila Works CEO Impressed by DualSense Controller, Including Reportedly 'Biometric Data Detection, Fingerprint Recognition


WHAT IN THE WORLD is this controller? Looks like someone broke an NDA if this is true.
Clickbait.

I just read the original source and the guy is just responding a hypothetical question:
What would happen if we started having biometric data of the player and if we could know how he feels?
From his perspective as a video game developer, these possibilities can range from fingerprint recognition to being able to feel, what the term comes to mean, what we see on screen. Geometry of the hand, special vibration simulation such as that introduced by Apple's Apple Watch these last generations
 
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Click bait.

I just read the original source and the guy is just responding a hypothetical question:
giphy.gif

Thanks for clicking so we don't have to.
 
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I want Cerny to have my ear data, fingerprint data and also a 3D model of my tongue.
Joke aside, good to see you have your brains in the right place:)
I, for one, seriously have concerns towards our younger demographic that logs in to services with existing accounts from face and google etc. without a thought about what that thumb action they just did, actually implies.
That said, though, fingerprints will NOT be stored serverside, that would always be stored locally on the device like smartphones of today. But better safe than sorry.. Biometrics is not something you fuck around with lightly in this day and age.
 
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The huge SSD deficit may be a completely moot point if no devs whatsoever even take advantage of it and people are unable to purchase additional storage for the next few years because it's "so advanced"

The SSD might actually be what hinders the ps5 rather than propel it.

In other words, it could backfire and end up as another disadvantage vs the XsX.
You mean the same way devs will struggle to fully utilise the 52 CU's of the Series X and somehow utilise the split pool of RAM? Lmao
 
What's the going price for current high end drives? I imagine that is probably what the initial cost will be. A few years down the road it will probably be fairly cheap.
Right now they seem to be around $250 per 1 GB.

Joke aside, good to see you have your brains in the right place:)
I, for one, seriously have concerns towards our younger demographic that logs in to services with existing accounts from face and google etc. without a thought about what that thumb action they just did, actually implies.
That said, though, fingerprints will NOT be stored serverside, that would always be stored locally on the device like smartphones of today. But better safe than sorry.. Biometrics is not something you fuck around with lightly in this day and age.
I had to give my biometrics to the US government when I was applying for a visa. I use my fingerprints to unlock my Chinese phone so that government probably has them too. Google already knows more about me than my wife does. This year or next, I'll probably have to install an app to be tracked by my own government due to the pandemic situation.

Privacy? Cover your windows, switch off electricity, then you can have a bit of it.
 
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Right now they seem to be around $250 per 1 GB.


I had to give my biometrics to the US government when I was applying for a visa. I use my fingerprints to unlock my Chinese phone so that government probably has them too. Google already knows more about me than my wife does. This year or next, I'll probably have to install an app to be tracked by my own government due to the pandemic situation.

Privacy? Cover your windows, switch off electricity, then you can have a bit of it.
Doesn't Sony require 5,5GB/s speeds? Because this drive doesn't have that...
 
You mean the same way devs will struggle to fully utilise the 52 CU's of the Series X and somehow utilise the split pool of RAM? Lmao

Nah.

All multiplats will use XsX as visual lead platform and gimp the ps5 version to port it over.

3rd parties won't bother with faster SSD speed in ps5 so all we will get is a couple hyper fast SSD games from Sony 1st party every 3 to 5 years.

Yay.
 
Wait, correct me if I'm wrong here. The Samsung Galaxy smartphones have a fingerprint sensor on the back of the phone that also acts as a heart rate monitor, using the same sensor on the back. Both types of biometric data (your fingerprint and your heart rate) are collected from that ONE sensor, meaning, that one component is capable of doing both. So who's to say that the same component inside the grips of the DualSense controller responsible for detecting your heart rate and sweat, can't detect your fingerprint?

Again, I'm not saying all this is 100% gonna happen on the controller because of a patent.

EDIT: Just found out the phones have a separate sensor for collecting heart rate data on the back, but I'm not gonna rule out the sweat and heart rate feature since that's patented by Sony, meaning there's still a CHANCE it can make it into the controller.
 
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Right now they seem to be around $250 per 1 GB.


I had to give my biometrics to the US government when I was applying for a visa. I use my fingerprints to unlock my Chinese phone so that government probably has them too. Google already knows more about me than my wife does. This year or next, I'll probably have to install an app to be tracked by my own government due to the pandemic situation.

Privacy? Cover your windows, switch off electricity, then you can have a bit of it.
Yepp! We already have this app in Norway. It's a thin line, but I can't use it anyways, so good riddance;-)
The whole point isn't to stop the virus, it's all about controlling the infection rate, so that hospitals and such isn't saturated.
i.e. peak controll
 
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Idk about fingerprints, but there was a patent describing how the controller can detect your sweat and heart rate. That's technically biometric data right?
I read the original source twice and they dont even quote him responding the hypothetical question about having biometric data of the player.

I am not saying that the speculations of the dev could be true, we have some patents from Sony with those kind of ideas, I am just saying he is not confirming it.
 
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Right now they seem to be around $250 per 1 GB.


I had to give my biometrics to the US government when I was applying for a visa. I use my fingerprints to unlock my Chinese phone so that government probably has them too. Google already knows more about me than my wife does. This year or next, I'll probably have to install an app to be tracked by my own government due to the pandemic situation.

Privacy? Cover your windows, switch off electricity, then you can have a bit of it.

For the drives with 5 gb/s read speed. Didn't Cerny mention a overhead for expansion drives likes 5,5-6 gb/s read performance? We still need to wait when this drives are going to arrive and how the pandemic situation will influence prices. My guess is around 350$ for 1 tb PS5 NVMe expansion and 200 for 1 tb XsX expansion. NVMe prices evolve slowly in high end segment, don't expect to much this year. At least Microsoft and Sandisk could release the expansion easily for 199, even for less. Western Digital just released a NVMe with 2,4 gb/s read performance for around 130.
 
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I don't understand why Sony will not sell the ssd they have in ps5.

Do they make it themselves or order it from a third party?

In any case they could sell it too. And let other companies compete.

Tens of millions will get an additional ssd
Don't they leave too much profit for others?
It's non removable and probably soldered to the MB like the ram chips will be.
 
Matt on Ree:
I think different engines and implementations will slightly favor either more CUs or faster CUs, but I expect it to be largely a wash (with more CUs being a bit preferable overall). In general looking at the TFLOPS will give you a good sense of the relative GPU performance.
Which means some games could run better on PS5 depending of the engines but he expects a slight majority will run better on XSX (a wash). That's from someone who actually saw games on both machines.
 
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It's non removable and probably soldered to the MB like the ram chips will be.

It also may be cost prohibitive to provide it as an external solution... its one things to buy them in batch and sell with every machine and its another to make up a batch and then have them sitting around on the shelf possibly not being purchased.

Also, it could be a big part of what requires their lavish cooling solution and the console might not be designed in a way to provide the cooling solution to both drives adequately.
 
The huge SSD deficit may be a completely moot point if no devs whatsoever even take advantage of it and people are unable to purchase additional storage for the next few years because it's "so advanced"

The SSD might actually be what hinders the ps5 rather than propel it.

In other words, it could backfire and end up as another disadvantage vs the XsX.
Actually all developers have to do is indicate to the system what uncompressed file to read from the SSD and where the uncompressed file needs to go in memory. That's it. The coherency engine, the 2 co-processors, the cache scrubbers, the Kraken chip? They don't have to think about it. The solutions put towards removing the intermediary bottlenecks are hardware-based.
 
Wait, correct me if I'm wrong here. The Samsung Galaxy smartphones have a fingerprint sensor on the back of the phone that also acts as a heart rate monitor, using the same sensor on the back. Both types of biometric data (your fingerprint and your heart rate) are collected from that ONE sensor, meaning, that one component is capable of doing both. So who's to say that the same component inside the grips of the DualSense controller responsible for detecting your heart rate and sweat, can't detect your fingerprint?

Again, I'm not saying all this is 100% gonna happen on the controller because of a patent.

EDIT: Just found out the phones have a separate sensor for collecting heart rate data on the back, but I'm not gonna rule out the sweat and heart rate feature since that's patented by Sony, meaning there's still a CHANCE it can make it into the controller.
There are two types of those sensors in consumer electronics: one measures electric charge of your skin, the other illuminates skin with laser and optically measures blood flow in tiny vessels under the skin (this type is popular in wristbands, smart watches and phones). I don't know which variant will be in the controller, but if it's going to monitor sweat and temperature too, I'd bet on the electric version. Official pictures don't show the back and I think it's on purpose. The technology is cheap now so I don't think it's going to increase the price of the controller much. But overall, DualSense won't be a cheap standalone, considering all its features.
 
Hmm....so Tom Warren from The Verge (Microsoft guy) is saying Lockhart won't hold games back and that TFLOPS don't matter.....at the same time....TFLOPS matter when PS5 is mentioned. 😂😂😂😂

To get to the my main point, Xbox Lockhart DOES hold back games, what if a game uses GPU physics calculations and RT to design around it? A 4 TF ain't doing any of that even at 1080p, as XSX is gonna run at maybe 1800p or 1620p, and when Lockhart sells way higher than Series X (due to it being much cheaper), you'll see developers build their games on the lesser console and then just scale up that given game with higher resolutions and some better effects here and there, instead of building their games to take full advantage of 12 TF console.

The one thing that can save us from this shit hole, is the PlayStation 5, because it has almost the same specs as XSX with much faster SSD (so arguably, you can make even more elaborate & ambitious next-gen experience than even XSX), and can save the next-gen baseline from that shitty Lockhart console, because we all know PS5 will DESTROY Xbox in sales whether it's Lockhart or Series X!!

I hope my message gets through safely as I know I'm gonna get so much flak for staying the truth. 🤣🤣🤣
 
I dont really get why some people think that a custom RDNA2 12tf machine is just good enough for 4K60fps when it is clearly an overpower system for that target.

Then you see people making random wild math based in that fase premise and concluding that because the XSX is only capable of 2160p then the PS5 is 1980p for the 1.8tf of difference without taking into an account the full picture of the systems or knowing about what the RDNA2 architecture can deliver.

🤷‍♂️

We really just need to see some third party games on retail hardware. That will let us know what is what. I expect the systems to be close in price and performance.
 
Question:

Can we expect jrpgs/anime-styled games to have this level of graphical fidelity and realistic, natural animation or is even nextgen too weak for that?



Its up to devs. Anime games don't normally have the high level of graphics, so they're pretty much less demanding games to be created and for a good reason. They need to follow the art direction of his creator.
 
Hmm....so Tom Warren from The Verge (Microsoft guy) is saying Lockhart won't hold games back and that TFLOPS don't matter.....at the same time....TFLOPS matter when PS5 is mentioned. 😂😂😂😂

To get to the my main point, Xbox Lockhart DOES hold back games, what if a game uses GPU physics calculations and RT to design around it? A 4 TF ain't doing any of that even at 1080p, as XSX is gonna run at maybe 1800p or 1620p, and when Lockhart sells way higher than Series X (due to it being much cheaper), you'll see developers build their games on the lesser console and then just scale up that given game with higher resolutions and some better effects here and there, instead of building their games to take full advantage of 12 TF console.

The one thing that can save us from this shit hole, is the PlayStation 5, because it has almost the same specs as XSX with much faster SSD (so arguably, you can make even more elaborate & ambitious next-gen experience than even XSX), and can save the next-gen baseline from that shitty Lockhart console, because we all know PS5 will DESTROY Xbox in sales whether it's Lockhart or Series X!!

I hope my message gets through safely as I know I'm gonna get so much flak for staying the truth. 🤣🤣🤣

Teraflops won't matter in Lockhart vs XsX because no one is expecting the games on Lockhart to perform at the level of XsX. They can't. But they can be dialed down to perform as best they can on the Lockhart.

Just like XsX games will have to be dialed down to perform as best they can on the ps5.

Games are built from the top down, not the bottom up.

If games were built specifically for super low end baselines then every game that is put out on the Xbox One S would perform rock solid 1080p and 30fps but that is not the case.

Devs build games with high end in mind and then do the best they can on lower end machines.
All people expect out of lockhart is stable 1080p and 60fps. Thats why TF don't matter there.
 
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Quantum Error 4K @ 60fps target with RT
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4 developers in the team.

Wonderful work, that what I want for full ray tracing not early 1990's game with crap graphics with full ray tracing at ancient resolution 1080p with unstable framerates. Concern trolls will be all over it though.

I'm perfectly OK with remake/remasters, they give me a chance to play again games I really enjoyed or didn't even play the original using current resources. But I have a rule: do it to games from at least two prior generations, or else I just think it's a cash grab coated in higher resolution. And about BC, this time it's more about letting people keep their catalogs, so they can stay in your ecosystem instead of going to the competition.

I'm fine with PS4 BC indeed and it's more like a must, but about PS3/PS2/PS1 I think most PS5 aren't buying it for that, or it should've be called legacy gen.

Dude, FF7 is an RPG, not action adventure. It's not about arcade traversal. I've just finished it yesterday and it was great (but you have to be into JRPGs because one third of the game is cutscenes and those ridiculous plot twists). It also has one of the most beautiful cutscenes I've seen. The whole game is quite low in detail and polygon count but what they did with HDR and colouring is a masterpiece. It'd rewatch it again just enjoying the story but YT compression kills the fun.

In general I hate turn-based JRPG, but I like action ones. Still at the very beginning, but so far it's not that great, nor the story getting me attached yet. If anything, the story at the beginning is pretty off. I liked FF15 overtime the more I go further, I hope this does.
 
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Teraflops won't matter in Lockhart vs XsX because no one is expecting the games on Lockhart to perform at the level of XsX. They can't. But they can be dialed down to perform as best they can on the Lockhart.

Just like XsX games will have to be dialed down to perform as best they can on the ps5.

Games are built from the top down, not the bottom up.

If games were built specifically for super low end baselines then every game that is put out on the Xbox One S would perform rock solid 1080p and 30fps but that is not the case.

Devs build games with high end in mind and then do the best they can on lower end machines.
All people expect out of lockhart is stable 1080p and 60fps. Thats why TF don't matter there.
No this developer disagrees with you, stop it man LOL!! They build from bottom to up, depending on where the most sales are going.

SZoKbEW.jpg
 
1 in charge of getting the assets from unreal marketplace
1 for the sound&gameplay
1 for narrative, sidequests, characters
1 supervisor&coffee maker

4 complete strangers with access to one or maybe two PS5 devkits. Suuuuuuuuure .... can´t find the asset used in their game, but it had a price tag of around €55 (scfi corridors).
Sony usually thread Indies pretty well if you have a good paper project.
They probably didn't even pay for the DevKit.
 
No this developer disagrees with you, stop it man LOL!! They build from bottom to up, depending on where the most sales are going.

SZoKbEW.jpg
I thought X and Pro don't having a single game that shows their true power was enough evidence for that... I guess not... some still believes in the Magic Scale bars.
 
No this developer disagrees with you, stop it man LOL!! They build from bottom to up, depending on where the most sales are going.

SZoKbEW.jpg

Really? Take Monster Hunter on console for example... looks like shit on XB1S and PS4 compared to PS4 Pro and X1X.

If what this dev says is true it would look and perform fantastic on the XB1S but it does not.

Same can be said for most multiplat games this gen lowest common denominator is obviously XB1S and PS4 for the last few years so there's no way they can perform poorly because theyre the lead dev platforms for all games right?
 
Sony usually thread Indies pretty well if you have a good paper project.
They probably didn't even pay for the DevKit.

Could have sworn i read somewhere this 4 man dev team doesn't have a ps5 dev kit yet... they're making their game on PC right now, ps5 next, and then MAYBE eventually XsX?
 
Really? Take Monster Hunter on console for example... looks like shit on XB1S and PS4 compared to PS4 Pro and X1X.

If what this dev says is true it would look and perform fantastic on the XB1S but it does not.

Same can be said for most multiplat games this gen lowest common denominator is obviously XB1S and PS4 for the last few years so there's no way they can perform poorly because theyre the lead dev platforms for all games right?
Yeah but the game is being built with base consoles in mind, the game looks the same across all consoles, just resolution differences, there are no differences in the actual GFX themselves.
 
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I thought X and Pro don't having a single game that shows their true power was enough evidence for that... I guess not... some still believes in the Magic Scale bars.
Yeah that's exactly what I mean, there's so much you can do with scaling, but it isn't the full answer, that's what I mean, you'll see games in some way that'll look different than if developers are building their games on one powerful console.
 
Sony usually thread Indies pretty well if you have a good paper project.
They probably didn't even pay for the DevKit.
I know a few stories from inside when Sony approached talented people and convinced them to make games. Not only did they give them devkits but also support of Sony Worldwide Studios and other know-how. This resulted in a few games in the PS3 and PS4 era and, for example, how my friend's logo became the official one of SMS. I think a big part of my decision to buy a PS3 after being a PC gamer for many years was when I saw how much they cared about alternative and artistic input for their games (we know that experimental games usually don't sell).
 
C c0de is trying so hard to downplay the PS5's SSD over at desetera. Going so far to post an expensive $4000 SSD made for datacenters just to say something faster at 9gb is available. Pointless comparison and not even comparable. Just because people are saying it's faster than anything available in 2020 and faster and more modern than SX's SSD.

Discord cult continues to live up to their goal.

EDIT-

Isn't the PS5's SSD 9gb to 22gb compressed? lol.
 
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Interesting old article:

don-mattrick-xbox-one_1280.0.jpg


Some Xbox 360 owners are dismayed that their collection of current-generation games won't work on the upcoming Xbox One. But Xbox head Don Mattrick is betting that they're in the vast minority. In an interview with The Wall Street Journal, Mattrick explained the decision not to focus on backwards-compatibility. According to him, only 5 percent of customers actually played older games on a new console, making it a low priority. "If you're backwards compatible, you're really backwards," he said.


I personally agree with him, no need to give too much attention to BC, we need to focus forward. FF7 is a good game, but it's clunky and you can't even jump, not liking it so much. We need to stop this remake BS and start pushing companies to show real new games not recycled ones. But the Don was savage.
BC helps to keep in mind the past, history of videogames isn't for nothing. One device that carry over at least a part of previous generations keeps available and close all the steps of the evolution.
What I'm supposed to do with PS3 games? Keep a PS3, and if broken try to repair it, and when I can't anymore buy a used one and so on? What about the other consoles, how much fucking space do I need in my house?
Right now on consoles it's a fucking nightmare to get old games, for fuck's sake I can't play the first MGS on my fucking PlayStation 4, one of the most important games ever, and I need to buy a remastered to play the others, the hell imma supposed to do with PS1\2\3 discs if I've understandably broken 15+ years consoles?
I mean yeah BC isn't the most important thing for next gen but without doing something it will be worst and worst every gen because you have more and more old games.
 
Nah.

All multiplats will use XsX as visual lead platform and gimp the ps5 version to port it over.

3rd parties won't bother with faster SSD speed in ps5 so all we will get is a couple hyper fast SSD games from Sony 1st party every 3 to 5 years.

Yay.

Actually xbox one and PC from 1996 will be the leading platform, because of MS wants that their games work on both of those.

So we will get monkey island ports and duke nukem 3d!
 
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