Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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Xo_O said:
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Despite pretending I wanted Bugsnax a million times as a joke, I had no idea it was coming out at launch. It doesn't even appear that you can preorder it anywhere? Or is it a digital-only game?

Why is it still confusing 6 weeks from launch...
 
I am
thebigmanjosh said:
The game is still in development and who knows when this clip was recorded. Could still look like shit at launch but that would likely mean engine limitations, and wasn't worth the cost/time to completely rewrite the engine for a bundled Remaster.

As for SSD loading, this has been covered so much in this and other threads but basically:
  1. The entire game engine for Spiderman was built around streaming in 20MB of data at max per tile due to extremely slow HDD speeds and seek latency.
    1. Spiderman's in-game speed was capped, and number, quality, and variety of assets were limited.
    2. 1GB of assets turned into 11GB due to duplication on disk, which also helped with data streaming.
  2. Faster SSD and no seek latency means data can be transferred into RAM as fast as the controller/decompressor can work (6-15GB/s)
  3. When an engine/game is built around those speeds, like Spiderman 2 likely will be, that 20MB/tile could be 100X larger, so more and higher detailed assets/LODs can be rendered on screen, and LOD transitions can be smoother.
    1. The only "game" that's been built around a fast I/O and fast SSD is the UE5 demo, and I believe Nanite streaming data was ~750MB/s.
  4. Then the limitations become how fast the GPU can render RAM data, memory bandwidth, and ultimately install size.
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I am a SDE, I might not know hardware. Memory management is one of the basic chapters in cs. So, I have a fairly good idea, how this expectation will pan out. But like everyone else, will see the proof in the pudding. 🙃
 
Aladin said:
So raw 6 gb/s ssd did not do any magic in the Spidey remaster ? 😂

I would love someone to explain why draw distances and pop in (post game load ) would be eliminated by a faster ssd.
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thebigmanjosh said:
The game is still in development and who knows when this clip was recorded. Could still look like shit at launch but that would likely mean engine limitations, and wasn't worth the cost/time to completely rewrite the engine for a bundled Remaster.

As for SSD loading, this has been covered so much in this and other threads but basically:
  1. The entire game engine for Spiderman was built around streaming in 20MB of data at max per tile due to extremely slow HDD speeds and seek latency.
    1. Spiderman's in-game speed was capped, and number, quality, and variety of assets were limited.
    2. 1GB of assets turned into 11GB due to duplication on disk, which also helped with data streaming.
  2. Faster SSD and no seek latency means data can be transferred into RAM as fast as the controller/decompressor can work (6-15GB/s)
  3. When an engine/game is built around those speeds, like Spiderman 2 likely will be, that 20MB/tile could be 100X larger, so more and higher detailed assets/LODs can be rendered on screen, and LOD transitions can be smoother.
    1. The only "game" that's been built around a fast I/O and fast SSD is the UE5 demo, and I believe Nanite streaming data was ~750MB/s.
  4. Then the limitations become how fast the GPU can render RAM data, memory bandwidth, and ultimately install size.
Click to expand...

Let me add to what you've said. I said this in another thread, but I think it worth repeating.

Dave_at_Home said:
I can't help but cringe after reading so many comments on here that just think the PS5's SSD and I/O is all about how fast you can boot up your game.

When your SSD and I/O is as fast as what's in the PS5, it literally changes how you utilize RAM. The amount of assets and the sheer quality of those assets goes up tremendously. Not to mention you no longer need to keep "cold" assets sitting in RAM just in case. I'd also like to point out from Cerny's talk that he mentioned he wanted to stream in assets faster than the player could turn around. If that is the case, than you save on unnecessary GPU utilization.

Speaking of GPU. We still don't even have a die shot of the PS5. This is probably due to AMD reasons. Probably something to do with its geometry engine. Maybe even tweaks to ray-tracing. We don't know all the customizations yet. At the end of the day, I do expect Series X to have the edge in GPU due to it being wider. This will be pointed out by Digital Foundry of course, but I seriously doubt it will be what some fanboys hope. You're not going to see another Xbox One and PS4 disparity here people. I swear some people think it's PS2 versus Xbox.

All this said, I'll more than likely get both. Start off with PS5 and get Series X once their exclusives start hitting Game Pass. Then again, I could just do a massive PC upgrade by the time their exclusive stuff rolls around.
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IbelieveInGenerations said:
Hi guys.. Im looking for a non expensive but good soundbar to go along my tv. Just good enough to feel more immersed playing PS5 with its 3d audio tech.

Things are Very expensive here right now and I Just cant further than a 2.1 soundbar😅. Maybe a 3.1 LG sl6y at Max!!

There are só many soundbars from different branda that I have no Idea what to choose. Could anyone give any light?

Thanks in advance. PM If possible.
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Sony HTX8500 should be like $250
 
Orky said:
correct me if I'm wrong, but are GoW Ragnarok and R&C the only new PS5 exclusive games that can be bought?
Meaning all other titles, that can be bought, are available on other platforms?
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for now ps5 ex demon souls r, r&c, gt7, gow ragnarok, returnal
 
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I had no plan to reply Spidey but man the improvement are some serious business, not gonna replay it soon, but def planning to replay it sometimes around 2021.

 
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Orky said:
correct me if I'm wrong, but are GoW Ragnarok and R&C the only new PS5 exclusive games that can be bought?
Meaning all other titles, that can be bought, are available on other platforms?
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And Returnal, GT7, Destruction All-stars.

Plus there is obviously Demon's Souls and Astro but you've cunningly worded your question to discount them for some unknown reason...
 
IbelieveInGenerations said:
Didnt think from that perspective.

Rdna2 being above 2.0 clock as the norm really throws the "its overclocked, Sony did that in the Last minute out of desperate, 2019 hardware" in the trash...

Poor xbots...😢
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Forget Xbots.

The most important are the reason AMD is pushing higher clocks... I bet it is the same reasons Cerny talked in the Road of PS5.
 
Insane Metal said:
I just saw MLiDs new video . So at this point it's pretty much confirmed that all RDNA2 cards will have high clocks (>2Ghz). Also apparently they're very power efficient. Now I wonder why the heck Microsoft decided to go with a 1.8Ghz GPU clock in their console? Could it be because the 52 CUs would draw too much power, even with RDNA2s efficiency? Doesn't look like that imo.

Edit: to be honest, it seems to me like RDNA2 actually improves performance/efficiency with higher clocks, otherwise why would AMD clock them so high?
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Well there are 3 possible speculative reasons

1. MS just wanted a server type clock setting and low power, and left it for the console.

2. More propagation delay in arragement of logic on silicon, those larger 14 CU shader arrays.

3. RDNA2 is logic and a node, but TSMC 7nm can be done in DUV or part EUV, helpig critical dimensions for gates. Maybe MS went lower cost ?

I dont know. MS will play the quietest console ever PR, so we will never know the truth unless someone leaks it.
 
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Insane Metal said:
I just saw MLiDs new video . So at this point it's pretty much confirmed that all RDNA2 cards will have high clocks (>2Ghz). Also apparently they're very power efficient. Now I wonder why the heck Microsoft decided to go with a 1.8Ghz GPU clock in their console? Could it be because the 52 CUs would draw too much power, even with RDNA2s efficiency? Doesn't look like that imo.

Edit: to be honest, it seems to me like RDNA2 actually improves performance/efficiency with higher clocks, otherwise why would AMD clock them so high?
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I've said this months back, but it's always worth mentioning again.

AMD's new cards are using 40CU / 80CU designs, with the 80CU GPU's utilizing their new stacking technology X3D. This means that the high end GPUs are more or less dual GPU's in one bundle, stacked. Of course we need to consider that cards will have 36/40 and 72/80 CU's, depending on how many (if any) CUs are disabled.

The Series X, while leveraging some of the RDNA 2 features (Fabrication process, co-processors, etc), doesn't use the "regular" RDNA 2 "template", so to speak. This is probably because of the need to have the 52CU APU run as a server for XCloud. That's ok.

So, at the end of the day, we have

PS5 - Closer to the RDNA 2 "template", with most of its features (the ones Sony deemed necessary) and Sony's own extensive customization
XSX - Seems like it's MS's own design, apparently grabbing more features from stock RDNA 2 and including MS own customization

Funny thing is, past disproven rumors said that the PS5 is RNDA 1 with RDNA 2 features tacked on, but the Series X actually deviates further from the RDNA 2 design. Nevertheless, both consoles are RDNA 2.
 
ZywyPL said:
Whoa, that's tiny as fuck, but I guess none of those prototypes would've come with an internal PSU.
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there's a few different variants. some might have had them internally, others may not have. the final xss is actually pretty tiny, and MS designed it with the intent that it could be put nearly anywhere
 
Dodkrake said:
I've said this months back, but it's always worth mentioning again.

AMD's new cards are using 40CU / 80CU designs, with the 80CU GPU's utilizing their new stacking technology X3D. This means that the high end GPUs are more or less dual GPU's in one bundle, stacked. Of course we need to consider that cards will have 36/40 and 72/80 CU's, depending on how many (if any) CUs are disabled.

The Series X, while leveraging some of the RDNA 2 features (Fabrication process, co-processors, etc), doesn't use the "regular" RDNA 2 "template", so to speak. This is probably because of the need to have the 52CU APU run as a server for XCloud. That's ok.

So, at the end of the day, we have

PS5 - Closer to the RDNA 2 "template", with most of its features (the ones Sony deemed necessary) and Sony's own extensive customization
XSX - Seems like it's MS's own design, apparently grabbing more features from stock RDNA 2 and including MS own customization

Funny thing is, past disproven rumors said that the PS5 is RNDA 1 with RDNA 2 features tacked on, but the Series X actually deviates further from the RDNA 2 design. Nevertheless, both consoles are RDNA 2.
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ok so to wrap things up your saying Ps5 is Rdna2 with bolt-ons from Rdna3 and xbox is Gcn with some added on features from Rdna1.

Check "lollipop_disappointed:


@X-Fighter Don't rage at me :messenger_grimmacing_
 
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IbelieveInGenerations said:
Hi guys.. Im looking for a non expensive but good soundbar to go along my tv. Just good enough to feel more immersed playing PS5 with its 3d audio tech.

Things are Very expensive here right now and I Just cant further than a 2.1 soundbar😅. Maybe a 3.1 LG sl6y at Max!!

There are só many soundbars from different branda that I have no Idea what to choose. Could anyone give any light?

Thanks in advance. PM If possible.
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Aren't you interested in headsets? Pulse 3d probably will be the most PS5 customized audio equipment on launch date.
 
IbelieveInGenerations said:
I understsand. But I am looking for something that is not exclusive for game Sessions (for movies and music also). I'd like to have something that can improve the sound of the enviromment as a whole, not Just for my ears, You know?

I want to give that boost on the sound from TV wich is weak, since It hasnt much volume, Bass and immerseviness.
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How much are you willing to pay?
 
IbelieveInGenerations said:
Hi guys.. Im looking for a non expensive but good soundbar to go along my tv. Just good enough to feel more immersed playing PS5 with its 3d audio tech.

Things are Very expensive here right now and I Just cant further than a 2.1 soundbar😅. Maybe a 3.1 LG sl6y at Max!!

There are só many soundbars from different branda that I have no Idea what to choose. Could anyone give any light?

Thanks in advance. PM If possible.
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Rtings.com is my favorite for any a/v equipment really.

www.rtings.com

Search results

www.rtings.com www.rtings.com

Sometimes have to look at their "by brand" articles but they do mention comparisons with other brands in them.
 
Neo Blaster said:
Aren't you interested in headsets? Pulse 3d probably will be the most PS5 customized audio equipment on launch date.
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Yes, no doubt. Looks the ideal headphone for Ps5.

But Im looking for a good sound for the whole enviromment that brings good immerseviness for both games and movies, so I believe a soundbar fits better to what Im looking for.
 
ZywyPL said:
wccftech.com

Destruction AllStars PS5 Launch Title to Run at 60 FPS Dynamic 4K Resolution

We can confirm that the PS5 launch title exclusive Destruction AllStars from Lucid Games will run at 60FPS with dynamic 4K resolution.
wccftech.com wccftech.com

giphy.gif
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What are your thoughts on this?

www.xbox.com

Halo Infinite: Coming day one to Xbox Game Pass | Xbox

The legendary Halo returns with the most expansive Master Chief campaign yet.
www.xbox.com

"Up to 4K"

And it looks like an Xbox 360 game to boot. This of all games couldn't have been a locked 4K 60? Curious to hear your feedback as I'm struggling to work this one out! Thanks
 
Nickolaidas said:
But Series X has yet to show next-gen games. That's like comparing Killzone Shadowfall to ... I don't know, Gears 3? And say that Sony is shitting on MS so far.
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Lol isn't that a big problem in itself? Launch is next month, and series X hasn't shown next generation games to compare with the competing console?
 
Games have unpredictable framerates due to the unpredictable nature of what's on screen. You might end up with a lot of enemies on screen during a certain battle, you might not.. hell the weapon you use and the effects it generates might change the framerate. This is particularly true for any game remotely "open world" or "dynamic" or multiplayer games.. since the game has no real control over the fact everyone in the match could decide to have a teabag fest in the same room.

If you want to achieve "locked 60FPS" you'd need to adjust the graphical settings to always be at a place where 60FPS is guaranteed.. meaning since performance is hugely variable you are leaving graphical fidelity out for the sake of handling edge cases.

So the modern technique is instead to adjust resolution on the fly, since it's another variable you can control that is much less noticeable to users.

Big fucking deal... graphics discussions are so stupid because 90% of people have no clue what it means to be "4k60" other than repeating the numbers and letters.
 
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Insane Metal said:
I just saw MLiDs new video . So at this point it's pretty much confirmed that all RDNA2 cards will have high clocks (>2Ghz). Also apparently they're very power efficient. Now I wonder why the heck Microsoft decided to go with a 1.8Ghz GPU clock in their console? Could it be because the 52 CUs would draw too much power, even with RDNA2s efficiency? Doesn't look like that imo.

Edit: to be honest, it seems to me like RDNA2 actually improves performance/efficiency with higher clocks, otherwise why would AMD clock them so high?
Click to expand...
They decided to use 56 CUs because the Xbox One had 14 CUs, and the Series X chip was designed as a server chip for Xcloud. Had to be able to run 4 Xbox One games at once. 14x4=56.

Then for the console, Phil said the goal was 12 TF. So 56 CUs, 4 disabled, 52 active CUs. From there its easy math to get 12 TF.

But 1.8 GHz would have only been 11.98 TF so they went to 1.825 and got 12.1 TF.
 
IntentionalPun said:
Games have unpredictable framerates due to the unpredictable nature of what's on screen. You might end up with a lot of enemies on screen during a certain battle, you might not.. hell the weapon you use and the effects it generates might change the framerate. This is particularly true for any game remotely "open world" or "dynamic" or multiplayer games.. since the game has no real control over the fact everyone in the match could decide to have a teabag fest in the same room.

If you want to achieve "locked 60FPS" you'd need to adjust the graphical settings to always be at a place where 60FPS is guaranteed.. meaning since performance is hugely variable you are leaving graphical fidelity out for the sake of handling edge cases.

So the modern technique is instead to adjust resolution on the fly, since it's another variable you can control that is much less noticeable to users.

Big fucking deal... graphics discussions are so stupid because 90% of people have no clue what it means to be "4k60" other than repeating the numbers and letters.
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There's a new variable besides resolution and framerate for next gen, ray tracing. Judging by the amount of RT we've been seeing on Sony games and how demanding it is, looks like they chose to lower resolution and go for reconstruction techniques to shift resources for image quality and fps. Curious to know how these techniques have evolved.
 
Falc67 said:
Lol isn't that a big problem in itself? Launch is next month, and series X hasn't shown next generation games to compare with the competing console?
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My point is that we do not currently have a satisfying way of comparing power specs for each console (in practice). In theory, we currently know that X Series X is the superior machine, though we still lack all the data to be 100% sure.

But comparisons right now are moot.
 
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