Support NeoGAF

[nib95]

these highlight something i've noticed in forza and the way they've implemented reflections in the road. it reminds me of the system used in infamous, where no matter what surface the character was stood on, or if the water had puddled up or was just wet sidewalk, the reflection would always be a blurred image. in that image above of the cars stationary in the starting grid, there are clear pools of water around the cars were the reflection should be sharp, and clean...almost mirror-like, but it's not. plus you don't seem to get the stretched light from headlights either, which makes the reflection look more artificial then it should.

Could be surface dependant, but I see what you're getting at. With InFamous I believe it was something to do with reflection precision, could be something similar here.

Some examples from DC. Top two shots being gameplay.

whynotboth.gif

Don't have the time really. I doubt I'll even play whichever one I buy all that much. My backlog is insane right now.

 

[Dictator93]

these highlight something i've noticed in forza and the way they've implemented reflections in the road. it reminds me of the system used in infamous, where no matter what surface the character was stood on, or if the water had puddled up or was just wet sidewalk, the reflection would always be a blurred image. in that image above of the cars stationary in the starting grid, there are clear pools of water around the cars were the reflection should be sharp, and clean...almost mirror-like, but it's not. plus you don't seem to get the stretched light from headlights either, which makes the reflection look more artificial then it should.

It dependso n a lot of things, but the way reflections are done in both games are very different.

Perhaps the way they filter them is just inaccurate for both though.

From what i've seen of the game reflection do look sharper or blurrier according to surface roughness, just never mirror-like (which they aren't because then you would see they probably use much lower detail models for cars)

yep

 

[Noobcraft]

Picking up an Xbox One in a little bit. Can't decide between Horizon 2 or Forza 6. Hmm….

What do you spend more of your time doing in Driveclub? Taking pictures/just driving or racing/time trials to get the best times possible?

If it's the former, get Horizon 2 first. If the latter, get FM6. The openness of Horizon 2 is refreshing (and the Co-op bucketlists are very good!), and Forza Motorsport 6 has some of the absolute best racing experiences available. You'll probably be happy with either.

It dependso n a lot of things, but the way reflections are done in both games are very different.

Perhaps the way they filter them is just inaccurate for both though.

Forza does reflections the same way Horizon 2 did, by rendering a second vehicle beneath the first. They upped the quality of the reflected models in FM6.

 

[leeh]

Picking up an Xbox One in a little bit. Can't decide between Horizon 2 or Forza 6. Hmm….

You should be able to get FH2 for cheap, and get FM6 as well. If you have the time to play them both, they're amazing in their own way. I find the online road trips in FH2 the best implementation of online multiplayer in an racing game full stop.

 

[Fess]

Picking up an Xbox One in a little bit. Can't decide between Horizon 2 or Forza 6. Hmm….

Horizon 2 is more unique but Forza 6 is perfection. Both games need a wheel though in my opinion. Driving at 250kmh through a wine field with a Ferrari in FH2 with a controller is fun but in the end it just makes me angry. You go at the same speed and basically feel nothing but zero traction while you go berserk in the field with the bushes constantly flying at your windfield. Yes it's an arcade racer but it still makes no sense. Plug in a FFB wheel though and it's frickin awesome and you'll want the sequel to be called Forza Horizon Rally, the offroad feedback is insane. Same thing with FM6, racing through the much-talked-about puddles in the rain with a FFB wheel makes you fear the rain like no other racing game, use a controller and you'll think it's cool but you'll eventually go meh.

 

[nib95]

What do you spend more of your time doing in Driveclub? Taking pictures/just driving or racing/time trials to get the best times possible?

If it's the former, get Horizon 2 first. If the latter, get FM6. The openness of Horizon 2 is refreshing (and the Co-op bucketlists are very good!), and Forza Motorsport 6 has some of the absolute best racing experiences available. You'll probably be happy with either.

DC I spend most of my time going through the Tours collecting all the gold stars, and competing in the public Evolution set Challenges. I've actually played a fair amount of Horizon 2, but only the demo of Forza 6. That said, I think I'll go with FH2, and get F6 a few months down the line. I have Project Cars, Driveclub, and have been dabbling with some Assetto Corsa, probably time to go for something a little different, and as you said, the openness of FH2 is pretty refreshing.

 

[shandy706]

Interesting Any gif or screenshot of forza in a actual Race Not a close up of the car. I see people say It's not representing the game properly.

Are my shots not showing up???

 

[BigLee74]

these highlight something i've noticed in forza and the way they've implemented reflections in the road. it reminds me of the system used in infamous, where no matter what surface the character was stood on, or if the water had puddled up or was just wet sidewalk, the reflection would always be a blurred image. in that image above of the cars stationary in the starting grid, there are clear pools of water around the cars were the reflection should be sharp, and clean...almost mirror-like, but it's not. plus you don't seem to get the stretched light from headlights either, which makes the reflection look more artificial then it should.

Wrong! You will get blurred or sharp reflections on Forza 6, depending on what material the reflection is showing on, and your viewing angle.

 

[KORNdoggy]

I believe it was something to do with reflection precision, could be something similar here.

infamous had what was essentially a misaligned cube map as far as i'm aware, but that is only true for static structures. the reflections of the characters/vehicles (anything moving) in the street use screen space reflections i think, and they appear blurry, no matter the surface or pooling of water.

the break lights of the car are reflected properly, but the street light with the misaligned reflection map is slightly off.

@BigLee74

i guess they do have variation...but those would be some fine examples of the weirdness of the road reflections and how they look very artificial.

 

[Snkfanatic]

Picking up an Xbox One in a little bit. Can't decide between Horizon 2 or Forza 6. Hmm….

I just got my Xbox One last weekend and had a similar debate. Went with Horizon 2 for now and I will get 6 later next month. Horizon is a bit cheaper right now as well.

 

[Stillmatic]

Some more mirror-like reflections (DC gameplay):

 

[viHuGi]

Lol DC is another league compared to PC and Forza, i though PC on PC would look better than DC but not even close.

Evolution Studios need to bring that sequel asap or new MotoStrom with this tech would be insane!

 

[GribbleGrunger]

It's always the hard edges that does it for me. I'm not technically minded so I don't know how it's achieved. In Driveclub the cars don't seem to have hard edges and so appear part of the world but in Forza 6 the cars have an almost 'cut out' appearance which sets them apart from the environments. I'm sure it has something to do with lighting but I'm not exactly sure about that.

 

[Summer Haze]

Picking up an Xbox One in a little bit. Can't decide between Horizon 2 or Forza 6. Hmm….

I've only played FH2, but it's easily one of, if not my favourite game of this gen so far. So I'd recommend that. I doubt you'll be disappointed either way though.

 

[shandy706]

It's always the hard edges that does it for me. I'm not technically minded so I don't know how it's achieved. In Driveclub the cars don't seem to have hard edges and so appear part of the world but in Forza 6 the cars have an almost 'cut out' appearance which sets them apart from the environments. I'm sure it has something to do with lighting but I'm not exactly sure about that.

It depends on the car, the track, and the lighting. It's not always the case. Just like not all pedestrians are 2D (there's actually a lot of 3D ones in F6), not all trees are 2D, etc...

Generalizing just isn't something that can be done.

Took some shots of the environments last night. I remember DF saying F6 had lower res textures on the Alpine track....they look better to me. Seems like they were talking about the tunnel area though...I need to look at it.

 

[orava]

Overall, PC > DC > Forza.

 

[Aceofspades]

Overall, PC > DC > Forza.

Actually it is DC >>>>> PC > Forza

Feel free to provide PC footage that proves your point.

 

[orava]

Actually it is DC >>>>> PC > Forza

Feel free to provide PC footage that proves your point.

There's plenty in this thread. DC looks really nice in tiny gifs but it's not a clear winner. In some cherry picked cases, DC can look much better than the competition but overall PC wins, especially during gameplay. Imo.

 

[T.O.P]

Picking up an Xbox One in a little bit. Can't decide between Horizon 2 or Forza 6. Hmm….

FH2 is an amazing game that should be played especially if you like the sunny/clubby atmosphere of the game

Still, T10 did a majestic job on F6, i'd go with that if i had to choose, a rainy endurance run on the Ring was enough to make me fell in love with the genre all over again

It's also a better pairing if you played a lot of DC considering the more sim style of F6

Interesting Any gif or screenshot of forza in a actual Race Not a close up of the car. I see people say It's not representing the game properly.

Can you rephrase that pls

 

[JP]

DriveClub is the only game of this generation that has genuinely surprised me, the only game that I've played where I honestly thought that I was seeing something that I really hadn't even thought about seeing in a game before I actually saw it.

There's been some absiolutely fantastic looking games this generation but nothing else has done that for me.

As wonderful as it is, I hope they do make improvements to the weather moving forwards. Fog would be fantastic and having snow that collects in 3D on the car and environments would be a fantastic addition.

 

[icecold1983]

Actually it is DC >>>>> PC > Forza

Feel free to provide PC footage that proves your point.

DC >>>>>>FH 2>>F6>Pcars>F5

 

[GameSeeker]

Overall, PC > DC > Forza.

You are going to be in the minority in that opinion.

DC>>>>>>PC>Forza

I have Project Cars on a high-end PC and even if I crank up every graphical setting and slow down PC to 30fps to match DC, DC still outdoes PC from a graphical perspective, especially weather. It's not even a close contest.

 

[nib95]

Are there any gameplay screenshots of Forza 6 showing the different reflection types? Especially the cleaner more detailed looking one's.

 

[TheAdmiester]

Are there any gameplay screenshots of Forza 6 showing the different reflection types? Especially the cleaner more detailed looking one's.

I've got a decent example of each.

Mirror-like (and a mindfuck because of the angle)

Blurred/grainy from road texture

Also, one for good measure - took a picture recently of some incredible textures on the 1993 Peugeot 905.

I know the AF is ramped up in photomode, but I think the actual texture res is the same in gameplay.

 

[nib95]

I've got a decent example of each.

These are photo mode shots though. I meant strictly from gameplay.

 

[TheAdmiester]

These are photo mode shots though. I meant strictly from gameplay.

Oops.

This is probably the cleanest reflection I've actually screenshotted in gameplay, from the demo.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Lol DC is another league compared to PC and Forza, i though PC on PC would look better than DC but not even close.

Evolution Studios need to bring that sequel asap or new MotoStrom with this tech would be insane!

That was never going to happen.

DC is the best looking racer I've seen.

 

[OccamsLightsaber]

Makes wonder what it would look like if it was developed for PC.

 

[BigLee74]

i guess they do have variation...but those would be some fine examples of the weirdness of the road reflections and how they look very artificial.

1. Makes dodgy claim about all shadows blurred on road in Forza 6.
2. Gets shown evidence that proves otherwise.
3. Grudgingly acknowledges he was wrong.
4. Shifts focus, and claims no matter, they look so artificial anyway.
5. Initial point made now justified. Agenda back on track.

News for you, sir. They are artificial. None of it is real. Its smoke and mirrors, artificially created to pass for something resembling real world. And to most people, they do a great job. Obviously not to Mr Ray Trace

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Bring on Gran Turismo 7. Oh boy

 

[BennyBlanco]

Lol DC is another league compared to PC and Forza, i though PC on PC would look better than DC but not even close.

Evolution Studios need to bring that sequel asap or new MotoStrom with this tech would be insane!

Forza looks amazing for a game running at twice the framerate. Wish it got a PC version so it could really be pushed.

 

[Summer Haze]

Also, one for good measure - took a picture recently of some incredible textures on the 1993 Peugeot 905.

Wow, that is really impressive.

And yeah, that first pic...what am I even seeing there? Lol.

 

[Clarkus Darkus]

GT7 is the only threat to DC in the visuals department and the tech going on to achieve it.

 

[ypo]

I think the lighting is what makes the difference in the Gifs, DC just looks more grounded in the world around while the car in FM6 just looks too bright. Probably just a poor combination of factors make it look worse than the majority of the game but it is striking difference between the two.

For a second there I thought someone compared DC to Hydro Thunder.

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

Forza 6? Do we even have a target release date yet? I honestly think GT7 might go up against Forza 7 :/

PD said they were aiming for 2016 so unless they have a delay, and with their normal development time with past GT games (apart from GT5) next year should be when GT7 hits.

 

[TheAdmiester]

Wow, that is really impressive.

And yeah, that first pic...what am I even seeing there? Lol.

Flip it and it might make more sense. The road curves, the car is actually past the rumble strips, but the camera is pointed at a reflection that isn't.

 

[Windom Earle]

Are my shots not showing up???

This looks extremely cartoony. And really makes you appreciate the trees in Drive Club...

 

[Ploid 3.0]

There's nothing wrong with games looking like games. We're not at the point where all high end games should look crazy yet. I still play Need for Speed The Run from time to time, last played today.

Where are the cel shaded racing games? I regret missing out on Auto Modellista even though I was looking forward to playing it when I saw previews on it in magazines. Imagine cel shaded racing games today after seeing how good the Naruto and Guilty Gear games look.

 

[DD]

Where are the cel shaded racing games? I regret missing out on Auto Modellista even though I was looking forward to playing it when I saw previews on it in magazines. Imagine cel shaded racing games today after seeing how good the Naruto and Guilty Gear games look.

I like you, sir!

 

[Windom Earle]

There's nothing wrong with games looking like games. We're not at the point where all high end games should look crazy yet. I still play Need for Speed The Run from time to time, last played today.

Forza has been going for this "stylized" look since the first game, but IMO it has overstayed its welcome. In the past people said it looks less sterile, but I don't think this is valid anymore. Compared to DC, F6 looks very sterile. I agree with the bolded part, but ultimately sims should go for photorealism IMO.

 

[TheAdmiester]

This looks extremely cartoony. And really makes you appreciate the trees in Drive Club...

You're watching some damn realistic cartoons then.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Forza has been going for this "stylized" look since the first game, but IMO it has overstayed its welcome. In the past people said it looks less sterile, but I don't think this is valid anymore. Compared to DC, F6 looks very sterile. I agree with the bolded part, but ultimately sims should go for photorealism IMO.

Yeah I can see that. I also remember Forza getting praise for it's saturation choices. Now with people wanting it to go for the lighting voodoo that Polyphony Digital practice I can see it being a letdown if it still looks a bit too much in the cartoon stylized side rather than the life like look side.

That said, the picture with the jeep hitting the tires look pretty good. The only thing that may breaks the illusion is the environment like the grass. I can tell it's a game just by the grass. There's also how the blur looks. Overcast has been a good way for the racing games to look life like. Such as the GT5 blue LFA picture on the ring.

Edit: all that said, remember, real life looks dull. The parts where Drive Club looks insane is when it have a lot of effects going on like the rain or the colors and things going on in the background, or just the awesome track decorations which helps with sense of speed. If Drive Club was on a normal track it would be dull unless Evo dressed it up with custom textures for each thing as they seem to have done in DC.

Man this stinking thing still looks so stinking good.

 

[OccamsLightsaber]

WTF is that really GT??

 

[Ploid 3.0]

WTF is that really GT??

GT5 Nurburgring LFA photomode screenshot from replay. PD's lighting is something else. The houses in the background might be flat when you get up to them, but they have the correct colors to ground them into reality. There was a photo mode demo that had very flat buildings up close, but it still looked good.

 

[OccamsLightsaber]

GT5 Nurburgring LFA photomode screenshot from replay. PD's lighting is something else. The houses in the background might be flat when you get up to them, but they have the correct colors to ground them into reality. There was a photo mode demo that had very flat buildings up close, but it still looked good.

The lighting has such a natural quality to it. It's definitely more realistic than the photomode of any current gen game.

 

[orochi91]

I think the lighting is what makes the difference in the Gifs, DC just looks more grounded in the world around while the car in FM6 just looks too bright. Probably just a poor combination of factors make it look worse than the majority of the game but it is striking difference between the two.

Simply stunning.

And Rushy said even more visual improvements are coming to DC in a recent Tweet!

But yea, DC is in a league of its own.

 

[piccio_ssl]

GT7 needs to happen just to melt my brain
holy shit

 

[M52B28]

You're watching some damn realistic cartoons then.

This made me laugh harder than it should.

Simply stunning.

And Rushy said even more visual improvements are coming to DC in a recent Tweet!

But yea, DC is in a league of its own.

FM6 looks a-lot better in person. I don't know if it's just me, but Driveclub is just a complete assault on senses. It takes away from the game due to its over-the-top game-play.

I really don't see the appeal of this too much. It's fun, but when I have to look past all the blur going on, it gets to me. It's as if some moments in game are actually watercolor.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

I was thinking about the comment by Rushy concerning the update that's going to make DC look even better. Putting crazy ideas to one side, could we get in game graphics of the same quality as photo mode graphics?

 

[spazchicken]

I think the lighting is what makes the difference in the Gifs, DC just looks more grounded in the world around while the car in FM6 just looks too bright. Probably just a poor combination of factors make it look worse than the majority of the game but it is striking difference between the two.

lol This can't be real. DC makes Forza look like a Wii title by comparison.