Support NeoGAF

[Windom Earle]

When you've got 24 cars on the track, it's still an absolute night mare with those puddles. Talk about downplaying. Considering the only other console sim, which is rubbish compared to FM6, just has your standard -20% grip and can't barely keep 60.

I'll iterate, new never-seen before feature = innovation.

I didn't realize this is an Xbox One only comparison thread. Calling Project Cars rubbish, a game with true dynamic lighting and changing weather conditions. Runs great on PC and (arguably) on PS4 since the latest patches. Much bigger gameplay impact compared to some baked puddles.

lol
I have a feeling this will get a lot of mileage.

 

[Fess]

Is this Project Cars? on PC? Looks insane.

 

[nib95]

This comparison is the most telling. Driveclub's is definitely the most accurate. Lots of little rivet bolts, clips, shapes etc are only done properly in the Driveclub version. Such as the clips around the windscreen, the tiny little bolt at the base of the ventilation shaft above the rear tire, the bolts above the interior steering wheel, the groove surrounding the segment where the logo on the bonnet goes, the little tiny clip to the right side of the fuel cap etc. Does anyone have a Forza 6 version to compare with?

Here's a hi-res of the real thing.

 

[KORNdoggy]

i'm surprised the models in PCars have so much faceting. especially if they're taken from PC? it's the only thing that lets those images down.

also, does the camera mode not allow you to capture motion on the road in PCars?

 

[leeh]

I didn't realize this is an Xbox One only comparison thread. Calling Project Cars rubbish, a game with true dynamic lighting and changing weather conditions. Runs great on PC and (arguably) on PS4 since the latest patches. Much bigger gameplay impact compared to some baked puddles.

Still looks poor on PC, still runs bad on PS4. Don't even defend a simulator which constantly drops from 60fps compared to one which doesn't.

I laugh at the dynamic remark for the weather. It changes half-way through racing, which is cool, but it's hardly like you've got water simulation and even puddles which gives you any of the aquaplaning you get in Forza. It rains and your grip lowers, great when it was introduced, but now we've got one step further with puddles.

I'd take the more baked approach with accurate wet track modelling with puddles which are the same on the track when it rains. Yes, the water doesn't disperse, but I'd happily take that compared to just lowered grip across the board. For example, on Sebring on the tiled section on the first straight, there's smaller water puddles which gather in-between the cracks and can really mess with you. On PCars, I'd be fine flooring it down there without worrying until the first corner.

That's without me even getting started on their pathetic handling model, while they keep dropping from 60fps.

 

[TBiddy]

This comparison is the most telling. Driveclub's is definitely the most accurate. Lots of little rivet bolts, clips, shapes etc are only done properly in the Driveclub version. Such as the clips around the windscreen, the tiny little bolt at the base of the ventilation shaft above the rear tire, the bolts above the interior steering wheel, the groove surrounding the segment where the logo on the bonnet goes, the little tiny clip to the right side of the fuel cap etc. Does anyone have a Forza 6 version to compare with?

Here's a hi-res of the real thing.

I'd argue that PC looks by far the most realistic. Both DC and GT6 seems a little off. Might be more accurate details in DC, though.

 

[Three]

ps: I forgot how much I hate Project Cars photomode controls, dear god.

Yiazmat putting in the work as usual in racing threads. Thanks for these.

 

[TheAdmiester]

I'd argue that PC looks by far the most realistic. Both DC and GT6 seems a little off. Might be more accurate details in DC, though.

I agree with that, especially with the real pic nib posted. pCARS matches it closer, with the carbon not always being extremely obvious, only when in direct light. The one in DC looks more like a stripey car, definitely looks off compared to the real one.

 

[crazysapertonight]

Is this Project Cars? on PC? Looks insane.

This is too realistic, really. For some time I thought this is real images

 

[nib95]

Still looks poor on PC, still runs bad on PS4. Don't even defend a simulator which constantly drops from 60fps compared to one which doesn't.

I laugh at the dynamic remark for the weather. It changes half-way through racing, which is cool, but it's hardly like you've got water simulation and even puddles which gives you any of the aquaplaning you get in Forza. It rains and your grip lowers, hardly great for a sim. I'd take the more baked approach with accurate wet track modelling with puddles which are the same on the track when it rains. Yes, the water doesn't disperse, but I'd happily take that.

That's without me even getting started on their pathetic handling model, while they keep dropping from 60fps.

It runs at a near flawless 60fps on PS4 now, and with more cars on the screen at a time, along with the dynamic weather and time of day....IQ is also very good, super clean. No idea how it runs on Xbox One mind. I'd say graphically it was very much comparable to Forza 6, with F6 doing certain things better, whilst other things PCars does better.

Some PS4 gameplay screens. Unfortunately Jpeg's.

 

[Windom Earle]

Still looks poor on PC, still runs bad on PS4. Don't even defend a simulator which constantly drops from 60fps compared to one which doesn't.

Again, is this the Xbox One comparison thread? The performance on that platform might be garbage, but not on PC (not familiar with PS4 performance after the recent patches).
Graphics wise, F6 and ProjC trade blows with ProjC having better IQ on PC and even PS4.

I laugh at the dynamic remark for the weather. It changes half-way through racing, which is cool, but it's hardly like you've got water simulation and even puddles which gives you any of the aquaplaning you get in Forza. It rains and your grip lowers, great when it was introduced, but now we've got one step further with puddles.

I'd take the more baked approach with accurate wet track modelling with puddles which are the same on the track when it rains. Yes, the water doesn't disperse, but I'd happily take that compared to just lowered grip across the board. For example, on Sebring on the tiled section on the first straight, there's smaller water puddles which gather in-between the cracks and can really mess with you. On PCars, I'd be fine flooring it down there without worrying until the first corner.

I respectfully disagree. Dynamic lighting and weather are way more impressive to me than some artificial obstacle course.

That's without me even getting started on their pathetic handling model, while they keep dropping from 60fps.

Because handling has nothing to do with this thread and it is highly subjective which one is better of the two.

 

[leeh]

It runs at a near flawless 60fps on PS4 now, and with more cars on the screen at a time, along with the dynamic weather and time of day....

I'd say graphically it was fairly comparable to Forza 6.

That's some goal posts moving if I've ever seen some.

Near flawless is no excuse, it still drops profusely and by a lot when it does. It's not acceptable in any given scenario in a sim. It messes with your input times, your judgement.

Also, this has only been patched in months after it's release date. Forza has always been flawless, every release.

 

[nib95]

That's some goal posts moving if I've ever seen some.

Near flawless is no excuse, it still drops profusely and by a lot when it does. It's not acceptable in any given scenario in a sim. It messes with your input times, your judgement.

None of this is true any more.

Gamersyde Project Cars frame rate test post patch, 30 cars, full dynamic weather, heavy rain

Pretty sure things have been improved even further since then as well. I barely ever notice any drops when I play it now. Tearing is very rare as well.

 

[Tripolygon]

I'd argue that PC looks by far the most realistic. Both DC and GT6 seems a little off. Might be more accurate details in DC, though.

Yes DC is more (not might be) accurate with the details. Look at the edges.

I agree with that, especially with the real pic nib posted. pCARS matches it closer, with the carbon not always being extremely obvious, only when in direct light. The one in DC looks more like a stripey car, definitely looks off compared to the real one.

False, depending on the angle and lighting, carbon fiber can look very obvious and not so obvious and can be woven in different fibre direction and size.

 

[nib95]

Yes DC is more (not might be) accurate with the details. Look at the edges.

False, depending on the angle and lighting. Carbon fiber can look very obvious and not so obvious and can have different fibre direction.

Right, this is what they said about the implementation of carbon fibre in Driveclub.

Anisotropic lighting is used to simulate the effect of each individual thread in carbon fibre weave. The pattern of the carbon alters realistically with the lighting angle and surface curvature.

 

[Summer Haze]

So, this is an excuse? Real life, from what we all have seen, does not look bland at all.

But it can at times, that's the point.

I dunno where you're from, but it sure as hell looks bland in England

Spoiler

most

times.

 

[TheAdmiester]

False, depending on the angle and lighting, carbon fiber can look very obvious and not so obvious and can woven in different fibre direction and size.

But you've just said it yourself - depending on the lighting.

Look at the picture again:

Specifically the bit of the bonnet near the car's left headlight. The lighting looks just right to where that part of the bonnet looks like it's grey, not carbon.

 

[leeh]

None of this is true any more.

Gamersyde Project Cars frame rate test post patch, 30 cars, full dynamic weather, heavy rain

Pretty sure things have been improved even further since then as well. I barely ever notice any drops when I play it now. Tearing is very rare as well.

Oh they've made it better half a year after launch so it doesn't do it as much any more. While still being a awful handling sim anyway with a lackluster online implementation and career with poor environments.

I think you've got the jist that I don't like PCars. As a sim, it's poor compared to Forza. The only fully locked 60fps racing title on any console, while still being the prettiest.

 

[Three]

Th Forza has always been flawless, every release.

Except when it was 30fps, right?

I think you've got the jist that I don't like PCars. As a sim, it's poor compared to Forza. The only fully locked 60fps racing title on any console, while still being the prettiest.

Lets not get carried away.

 

[Shin-Ra]

Project Cars PS4 image quality does look very good after they fixed and made tweakable the TAA/motion blurring.

I don't think they made much improvement to the anisotropic filtering though?

Does Forza 6 have standard (360) and premium (Xbone) quality cars because one of these is clearly smoother than the other.

 

[TheAdmiester]

Does Forza 6 have standard (360) and premium (Xbone) quality cars because one of these is clearly smoother than the other.

Nope, they're all the same in terms of smoothness and polygon density. There are some that are enhanced but still have old inaccuracies, but they're all as detailed as each other.

What you're seeing on the Auto Union car is a side effect of the game's optimisation, the AI cars don't become more detailed in photomode, they stay at the "slightly-lower-than-player's-LOD" level you see them at in gameplay. If the player was in the AU car, it'd look just as smooth as the red one.

 

[Shin-Ra]

Wouldn't it make more sense to just do LoD based on distance, and always use max LoD for photos?

 

[Ombala]

Project Cars PS4 image quality does look very good after they fixed and made tweakable the TAA/motion blurring.

I don't think they made much improvement to the anisotropic filtering though?

Does Forza 6 have standard (360) and premium (Xbone) quality cars because one of these is clearly smoother than the other.

There i something wrong with the left Picture is it crushed blacks?

 

[Shin-Ra]

There i something wrong with the left Picture is it crushed blacks?

That'd be the 'exposure' of that particular photo.

 

[Three]

Wouldn't it make more sense to just do LoD based on distance, and always use max LoD for photos?

It uses distance based lod too (you got some really jarring pop-in in forza 5) but the max is lower on other cars too. Saves on memory.

 

[TBiddy]

Yes DC is more (not might be) accurate with the details. Look at the edges.

Doesn't help much, when the looks itself is on par with a PS3 game.

pCars is way ahead on those pictures.

 

[leeh]

Except when it was 30fps, right?

On the original Xbox when 60fps wasn't even a thing because of TV's. Really?

Lets not get carried away.

It's the prettiest 60fps racer for sure. Considering it actually stays there.

This thread is ridiculous. I'm done for today.

 

[nib95]

On the topic of the changing appearance of carbon fibre weaving, I actually have some examples.

Here's an example comparing the look of the centre dash unit on the La Ferrari in different lighting conditions.

Here's some examples on the central unit of the Rimac.

Carbon fibre bonnet such as those on the Zonda R.

In certain lighting the weave isn't even properly visible at all, such as on the valance top, on the bonnet of this Ariel Atom.

Pretty interesting to analyse the different variations and changes tbh.

 

[Yiazmat]

Is this Project Cars? on PC? Looks insane.

Yes it's on PC.

also, does the camera mode not allow you to capture motion on the road in PCars?

It does but I forgot how to get it working with the free camera, so it was more easy to just park the car and take the pics.

 

[adelante]

Right, this is what they said about the implementation of carbon fibre in Driveclub.

I believe Forza does this too. At least from what I noticed in Forza 5 a while back (when I was highlighting the lack of shadows projected on surfaces with reflections). You can see each weave has individual specular highlights as the light travels across the carbon fibre panel):

https://youtu.be/7YfEUVjGq80?t=52s

 

[Shin-Ra]

On the original Xbox when 60fps wasn't even a thing because of TV's. Really?

It's the prettiest 60fps racer for sure. Considering it actually stays there.

This thread is ridiculous. I'm done for today.

What on earth?

 

[Three]

On the original Xbox when 60fps wasn't even a thing because of TV's. Really?

It's the prettiest 60fps racer for sure.

I can assure you 60fps racers were a thing on PS2 and Xbox.

 

[etta]

BigLee74 should probably indicate when they are photographing an AI car and haven't refocused.

 

[Angelus Errare]

On the original Xbox when 60fps wasn't even a thing because of TV's. Really?

lolwut?

 

[nib95]

Oh they've made it better half a year after launch so it doesn't do it as much any more. While still being a awful handling sim anyway with a lackluster online implementation and career with poor environments.

I think you've got the jist that I don't like PCars. As a sim, it's poor compared to Forza. The only fully locked 60fps racing title on any console, while still being the prettiest.

You know you're consistently posting misinformation right? The video I posted above, in which the frame rate is close to a locked 60fps (only two split second 1 frame dips during the entire video), is a version with a patch that was issued just one month after the games release, not half a year as you've suggested. And lol at the rest of your post.

 

[GHG]

Oh they've made it better half a year after launch so it doesn't do it as much any more. While still being a awful handling sim anyway with a lackluster online implementation and career with poor environments.

I think you've got the jist that I don't like PCars. As a sim, it's poor compared to Forza. The only fully locked 60fps racing title on any console, while still being the prettiest.

It's ok to not like a game but don't make shit up that isn't true in a poor attempt to fit your agenda. It's a waste of everyone's time who had to sit there and pick apart your posts, never mind the fact that you are now bringing in factors that are clearly off topic.

You're embarrassing yourself.

 

[TheAdmiester]

BigLee74 should probably indicate when they are photographing an AI car and haven't refocused.

They don't become much more detailed when focused, it's a strange issue. Even if you're focused on a completely different car, you can clearly tell which is the player car in a photo.

 

[leeh]

You know you're consistently posting misinformation right? The video I posted above, in which the frame rate is close to a locked 60fps (only two split second 1 frame dips during the entire video), is a version with a patch that was issued just one month after the games release, not half a year as you've suggested. And lol at the awful handling and career bit.

Is it locked then? No. Is Forza? Yes. Holy moly. The game still dips, I have the game, it dips.

It's ok to not like a game but don't make shit up that isn't true in a poor attempt to fit your agenda. It's a waste of everyone's time who had to sit there and pick apart your posts, never mind the fact that you are now bringing in factors that are clearly off topic.

You're embarrassing yourself.

My agenda? I have an opinion, an opinion which isn't agreed with. PCars is an awful game in my book.

A physics engine which runs 360 times a second is going to have an impact on what they can show on-screen. They're directly related, it's on topic.

Regarding 60fps on 6th gen, I was strictly referring to PAL/NTSC which is 30fps. I never remember playing a 60fps game, if that was the case, then my bad.

 

[Synth]

Regarding 60fps on 6th gen, I was strictly referring to PAL/NTSC which is 30fps. I never remember playing a 60fps game, if that was the case, then my bad.

Was playing 60fps PAL games on the Dreamcast. 50fps for generations before that.

 

[Gestault]

Right, this is what they said about the implementation of carbon fibre in Driveclub.

I don't want to sound too dismissive, because the effect is quite good, but they're describing a shader. Thankfully most recent games using that type of shader have aligned the effect with the evnironmental lighting, which makes it stand out beautifully. All these games use advanced shaders, and having had solid time in all, I don't think that surface effect in Driveclub is particularly more pronounced/effective that either Project Cars or the recent Forzas. All look quite good.

It's like when you see someone saying a particular game's individual water droplets simulate and distort the scene, it's true, but all the games do it.

 

[leeh]

Was playing 60fps PAL games on the Dreamcast. 50fps for generations before that.

Learn something everyday. Never knew PAL/NTSC TV's could even refresh at that.

 

[Windom Earle]

Regarding 60fps on 6th gen, I was strictly referring to PAL/NTSC which is 30fps. I never remember playing a 60fps game, if that was the case, then my bad.

Completely wrong, since when are 30hz TVs a thing?

 

[leeh]

Completely wrong, since when are 30hz TVs a thing?

If you googled it, then every piece of information you find says PAL is 25fps while NTSC is 30fps. I'm not making this up.

 

[danowat]

If you googled it, then every piece of information you find says PAL is 25fps while NTSC is 30fps. I'm not making this up.

Think you're getting confused with broadcast standards.

 

[Tripolygon]

If you googled it, then every piece of information you find says PAL is 25fps while NTSC is 30fps. I'm not making this up.

Lol

 

[nib95]

Is it locked then? No. Is Forza? Yes. Holy moly. The game still dips, I have the game, it dips.

That's not what you said though. These were your specific posts.

Still looks poor on PC, still runs bad on PS4. Don't even defend a simulator which constantly drops from 60fps compared to one which doesn't.

it still drops profusely and by a lot when it does.

Oh they've made it better half a year after launch so it doesn't do it as much any more.

Like, none of the above is true. I even provided you with video evidence to the contrary lol. And you accused me of moving goalposts....sheesh...

I don't want to sound too dismissive, because the effect is quite good, but they're describing a shader. Thankfully most recent games using that type of shader have aligned the effect with the evnironmental lighting, which makes it stand out beautifully. All these games use advanced shaders, and having had solid time in all, I don't think that surface effect in Driveclub is particularly more pronounced/effective that either Project Cars or the recent Forzas. All look quite good.

It's like when you see someone saying a particular game's individual water droplets simulate and distort the scene, it's true, but all the games do it.

Agreed.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Walter White Drive Club MG][/QUOTE]

Woooow

 

[leeh]

That's not what you said though. These were your specific posts.

Like, none of the above is true. I even provided you with video evidence to the contrary lol. And you accused me of moving goalposts....sheesh....

I said any frame rate dip or tear is unacceptable in a sim. Any. I still think that. No one should accept any dips or tearing in a sim. It's the first most crucial point.

I'm tired of this. Back to work, and then Forza after work.

 

[crazyprac]

If you googled it, then every piece of information you find says PAL is 25fps while NTSC is 30fps. I'm not making this up.

Lol omg...

 

[nib95]

If you googled it, then every piece of information you find says PAL is 25fps while NTSC is 30fps. I'm not making this up.

Lol...