thelastword
Banned
What a bizarro world, some one said to me that all that shaking is more realistic and it should be in GT...
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Next-gen Racing Graphics Face-off | (Next-gen means current-gen)
- Thread starter Gestault
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Apex
Member
GT4, 13 years oldIt's also still the only game to acknowledge that tarmac doesn't need to be wet to reflect the surroundings to a degree.
l2ounD
Member
Killroyskbg
Member
Read the thread
less worthy with you
See this is all you are capable off. Ask others to do something for you instead of providing anything but trolling to threads.
But I guess it the same here regarding GTS interiors that you cant judge if they are realistic until you have a picture of a dry interior from one game compared to a wet one from another and one from real life since that is the most reason "more fair" demands you used. Or have the criteria changed again?
Monad
Member
It isn't crazy at all.
The car models of GT:S are absolutely amazing in both detail and presentation, but the FM7 ones actually doesn't have the "PS2 level cars" effect of the GT5/6 Standard cars, on the opposite, they're 700 pretty damn good cars with full interior and a level of detail according to the times, so it's perfectly valid to complain about the car quantity in GT:S, especially considering to Polyphony saying the last generation that the Premium models of GT5/6 (above 440 cars) would be suitable for future generations and here we are, with less than 200 cars...
TheAdmiester
Member
It's almost like it's different people that you're responding to...
This sums it up exactly. People complaining that the argument has shifted to car count are forgetting the fact that GT strived for car count with a clear, massive detriment to quality. Now Forza has quality AND quantity (or at the very least interiors for every car), yet people act like it has the same standard cars problem.
l2ounD
Member
Well its not the same quality deg taking PS2 assets to PS3 but still there is this
those headlights.. from the thread;
and forza 4
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Well, you gressed wrong like usual because i already said what i think about the "quality" of that interiors. Maybe you are really a bit blind and can't correctly see some words and rain
eso76
Member
GT4, 13 years old
This is very well done (although a dry road would maybe produce softer reflections) but light sources reflecting on the tarmac at night wasn't new (I think?) although tbf seeing it done so well isn't common even today.
What pgr4 did though, was having the environment reflected on the track at all times, so that under particular conditions (in the shadow, like between 2 lines of tall buildings) stuff brighter than the road would become faintly visible reflected on it.
Not just a generic specular from light sources or the sun.
Haven't seen any other game do that, gave the tarmac a very realistic look combined with the different material used for road stripes and reflections being naturally blurred by the environment bump mapping.
Is this a meta-joke I'm not in on? This is the pic you posted. Is there an obvious shotcoming to the detail on the car? Even given that it's presented at a distance in not exactly flattering lighting? If someone with Forza 7 wants to grab some more close-ups on the detailing, the car should be the 2000 Honda Prelude SiR.
TheAdmiester
Member
I wouldn't say the bad headlight texture is an extreme difference though. At the end of the day the car still has smooth wheel arches, a detailed interior, and (probably) a modelled engine.
l2ounD
Member
Is this a meta-joke I'm not in on? This is the pic you posted. Is there an obvious shotcoming to the detail on the car? Even given that it's presented at a distance in not exactly flattering lighting? If someone with Forza 7 wants to grab some more close-ups on the detailing, the car should be the 2000 Honda Prelude SiR.
It was from a thread on reddit someone posted earlier
Monad
Member
The difference is that the models of Forza 4 perfectly suits for the current gen in their high poly form, as well as Premium cars in GT5/6. Standard cars on PS3 doesn't. As simply as that.
Of course, the Prelude isn't the best model out there, and the headlights of the game won't look better than GT:S, but I can't call exactly a quality degradation to this:
The car didn't even have Forzavista in FM4, and the actual exterior and interior model are much improveed for 4K standards in terms of polygons and shaders.
At least for me, it looks perfecty valid for an actual-gen racer.
potatohead
Member
That's very cool didn't know that. I have all the PGR games now after loving DC so much and finally buying a 360 last year and OG xbox. Always was a fan of PGR.
The difference is that the models of Forza 4 perfectly suits for the current gen in their high poly form, as well as Premium cars in GT5/6. Standard cars on PS3 doesn't. As simply as that.
Of course, the Prelude isn't the best model out there, and the headlights of the game won't look better than GT:S, but I can't call exactly a quality degradation to this:
The car didn't even have Forzavista in FM4, and the actual exterior and interior model are much improveed for 4K standards in terms of polygons and shaders.
At least for me, it looks perfecty valid for an actual-gen racer.
Thank you for giving more full-throated materials for comparison. l2ounD seemed to be painting an...incomplete picture.
TheAdmiester
Member
Honestly, the only truly "bad" model would be the R32 Golf at this point. Even then, the poly count is high enough for smooth arches and a nice interior, but the car just looks a bit off.
Radical Edward
Member
Did the prelude have illuminated gauges?The difference is that the models of Forza 4 perfectly suits for the current gen in their high poly form, as well as Premium cars in GT5/6. Standard cars on PS3 doesn't. As simply as that.
Of course, the Prelude isn't the best model out there, and the headlights of the game won't look better than GT:S, but I can't call exactly a quality degradation to this:
The car didn't even have Forzavista in FM4, and the actual exterior and interior model are much improveed for 4K standards in terms of polygons and shaders.
At least for me, it looks perfecty valid for an actual-gen racer.
l2ounD
Member
I mean in terms of quality what would you rank the car? Is it representative of other car qualities in Forza or is it lower? Or is the quality and quantity equal.
Monad
Member
Yes, all the cars have illuminated interior stuff in night/low light conditions.
Also, the clock actually displays the real system's hour, just as previous games.
The quality is homogeneous across all the cars, obviously there will be cars slightly better than others (just like in all games), but nothing comparable to the Premium/Standard situation of GT5/6.
Sure, the Prelude isn't the most attractive car to show out there, but it doesn't indicate that que car model is bad nor downgraded.
sems4arsenal
Member
The prelude still kinda looks a gen behind the cars in GTSport though.
Nice to see another level headed poster in here.
The prelude still kinda looks a gen behind the cars in GTSport though.
And then we have hyperbolic posts like this...
This is basically how I'm looking at it.
l2ounD
Member
Damn, ok so this is the quality bar for what a Forza 7 Honda Prelude can look like.
Yautja_Warrior
Member
I think that was the original plan but it seems like something changed during development, that made them scrap the cars and start from scratch and is the reason why we have incredibly detailed cars but less of them at launch, with more coming as DLC after.
Maybe they didn't want any backlash for using old car models again, after the complaints about the PS2 cars, even though the cars in GT6 looked much better and they probably could have got away with it far easier this time.
sems4arsenal
Member
Feel some of the textures are below the PS3 era premium cars.
Monad
Member
The prelude still kinda looks a gen behind the cars in GTSport though.
In terms of shaders and lighting I must agree, but aside the fact of that image was made in the Photo Travel of the game (which boosts the already impressive visual quality of the actual gameplay to a whole new level), the cars in FM7 doesn't look a generation behind as you say, even without the fancy Photo Travel mode:
Don't misundertand me, it's obvious that the model quality of GT:S is superior in general terms and looks better, but as a carphile, I much prefer have the balance of quality and quantity of FM7, whose car models looks great already.
Monad
Member
As far as actual ingame regards, yes.
If I would have a PS4 Pro, I would make a direct comparison too, because this:
Doesn't look like this:
Shiney tarmac isn't unheard of. It depends on the mix and age/use. The reflective parts are more often than not where tyres have made contact the most through the years.
You have to factor in who Turn 10 contracted to complete the modelling for the various cars in the game. That's one reason why Gran Turismo cars are higher quality because they are all done in-house.
They started to re-model Gran Turismo 6 cars for tessellation but it seems they are doing them again for Gran Turismo Sport. The Ferrari Dino 246 GT '71 is nowhere to be seen in Gran Turismo Sport, for instance.
Premium Gran Turismo 5 cars really should be in Gran Turismo Sport because the high-poly models are still really detailed but I guess they don't have the gameplay functionality of the newer models.
l2ounD
Member
GT5 Prolouge quality;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lawd9IhK67U
They are different cars but just looking at the quality of the modeling and materials its still tops that Prelude imo
Inviusx
Member
Another quick absurd comparison:
There's just something about Forza that seems so dull.
skyfinch
Member
D'ultimate
Member
Does GTS have windshield reflections?
TheAdmiester
Member
Look at the directions of the shadows. The GT shot has longer shadows, and judging by the yellow reflections on the Genesis and the buildings, it's a sunset-ish time of day. Forza's time of day is more of a flat mid-day type which always looks boring.
As far as actual ingame regards, yes.
If I would have a PS4 Pro, I would make a direct comparison too, because this:
Doesn't look like this:
Damn. Project CARS on PC looks pretty damn good during gameplay. Too bad Polyphony is stuck on one platform. Then you'd probably be able to get photomode quality models while in-game.
Monad
Member
It souldn't be a surprise, it's a Premium model (those that would be used for future generations, in words of Kazunori) with a proper polygonal cut for the PS3 capabilities, it perfectly fits with the current generation, just like the high quality models from FM4.
You are comparing two different cars, in different conditions, in different modes, and you think that's an accurate comparison? The cars in GTS look damn impressive, no doubt, but don't be silly.
Edit:
Also this highlights what's wrong with many of the comparisons in this thread. Two different cars, compared out of context, and them being a generation apart is all that's said. No coverage of the modeling, shaders, lighting, shadows, etc. Without any of that it all just amounts to cheerleading for the game you like best.
Yeah, go to about 2.30 in this vid for a decent view.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwcC65jnfiM this is from the old closed beta
Am glad both games look great.
Also this guy is streaming the demo mode from the beta https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOSeLf11ntw
Self_Destructive
Member
Damn. Project CARS on PC looks pretty damn good during gameplay. Too bad Polyphony is stuck on one platform. Then you'd probably be able to get photomode quality models while in-game.
This is what I've been saying. GTS falls apart somewhat during gameplay. It does a lot of things right which make it look very good at times, but all these scapes and interiors that look amazing aren't what I'm playing.
FlutterPuffs
Member
I don't think falling apart is the word you're looking for, when it still looks great.
And I don't mind all these showcase concepts like autovista and scapes. There's nothing wrong with admiring a car and taking pictures of it, even in a video game.
D'ultimate
Member
Looks great. Sounds good.
l2ounD
Member
I guess our opinions differ in me thinking the Prelude is not a high quality model.
TheAdmiester
Member
Its lights aren't the greatest, yes, but are you seriously calling this "not high quality"?
l2ounD
Member
That is pretty cool.
Not so much a fan of this shot though
But its mainly about the exterior/cockpit shot. Do you have examples of those that look better?
Monad
Member
I think we have a different concepts of what a hight quality model is.
For me is more than top-notch lighting and realistic shaders, is the polygonal count of the car itself and the way it's representated in the gameplay.
Gran Turismo has the best car models, there's no doubt about it, but during the game, quality is drastically reduced in order to maintain performance, and can be easily detected in direct feed content.
FM7 (at least on PC and One X) shows the high polygonal model (the same you look in Forzavista mode) during gameplay, with the full interior view visible from the outside.
IMO, this is a high quality model, I can enjoy it while I have the controller/wheel on my hands during gameplay, not just in photomode or replays:
GT:S clearly cut the high quality model (just look the edges around the wheel arches):
GamingArena
Member
You mean more like real life compared to over-saturated colors in GTS i bet you like Samsung TVs better at Best Buy in torch mode compared to properly calibrated at home which look dull and not fun like Best Buy TVs...
Self_Destructive
Member
I don't think you've played it.
Not my screen, but I sure have played it.
That looks about right.
l2ounD
Member
I dont know why you switched cars we were talking about the Prelude.
I think the Megane looks great.
I actually really like this shot, since the driver looks believable
vs whats going on here
and cant even see the driver here
I don't know what it is, but brake calipers and rotors in Forza 7 gives its cars a cartoony look to me. Also Hub to wheel connection in Forza 7 is weird looking too. The wheel literally just floats there while the car is in motion during gameplay. GT Sport does a great job of making the well actually look attached to the car.
Is GT Sport a 4K game? Just asking because the screenshot 3840x2160.
Is GT Sport a 4K game? Just asking because the screenshot 3840x2160.
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