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Next-gen Racing Graphics Face-off | (Next-gen means current-gen)
- Thread starter Gestault
- Start date
I think this should settle it. I painted a van chrome to test, just to have a large, flat, reflective surface area. Using the same terms you used (casting versus reflections) just to make it clear.
In the first shot, the van is reflecting the light sources of the two cars behind it. The top white lights are from the track stands, the bottom yellow lights are from cars. The reflections are clearly being rendered on the middle of the van, the reflector at the top, and the reflectors in the reverse lights. The casting lights are visible on the Ford badge, the area where the plates would be, and the road of course. EDIT: Also, bear in mind that the casting isn't quite as visible on the van in these shots since chrome is less rough and will diffuse less light.
The second shot is the exact same shot with all headlights switched off. Open them in two tabs and flick between, you can see where each reflection would've been and where each light cast would've been.
This shot has light reflections visible (the Hilux's rear lights on the van), but not much casting going on as it's not fully dark + the Hilux seems to have rather dim lights.
Hope that's clear enough, I was starting to struggle to find proof until I had the idea of making a hideous chrome van
Awesome find
Forza Horizon 3 has this tooJust been catching up in this thread, and by extension your posts. I think I agree with you in regards to what FM7 is doing for its time of day transitions. So basically all we now disagree on is the use of the term itself. The time of day would still be dynamic as in the video posted the time of day at the start is clearly not the same time of day at the end... so it had changed (the literal meaning of the word dynamic) during the course of the race. It would still be dynamic even if interpolating between states, and being limited to say a 10pm to 2am transition, rather than a full 24hrs.
The shadows however apparently aren't dynamic by the same definition. The game is seeemingly limited to transitions between times of day where the shadows cast by the sun wouldn't be a factor.
PGR4 does still look amazing for a last gen game... but I certainly wouldn't regard it as being all that smooth now. I was replaying it a while back, and I was surprised at just how noticeable framedrops in the game were in comparison to the original Forza Horizon which I was playing around the same time.
I explained that people just want a wider variety of cars. 2 types of Ferraris and Lambos for example isnt enough for most. Even if the 458 GR4 is a totally different car mechanically (with a wider body) than the 458 road car, people just see a racing 458. Not hard to comprehend honestly.
ethomaz
Banned
Funny because it drives completely different from each other lol
That is the best part of GT games... each car is unique to drive.
Who are these people? Because variety means too different driving cars like these two you listed.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
You guys sound like you don't know much about cars to consider FIA GT cars as the same as their production counterparts. I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
GTS car list and number of cars have been decried by alot of people here, no way you havent seen that.
There was this post recently on another thread:
A lot people find the car selection to be lacking and feel that the 162 cars are inflated by « duplicates » (not my word). It seems like a general sentiment.
FrankCanada97
Roughly the size of a baaaaaarge
I would guess the vast majority of players do not watch motorsports beyond the occasional NASCAR or F1 race if at all.
What the fuck
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Its not a general statement at all, just something you are trying to pass as a general statement.
No car fan would consider a production car and its FIA GT3 version as duplicates. They look different, interior and exterior and handle differently.
No car fan would consider a production car and its FIA GT3 version as duplicates. They look different, interior and exterior and handle differently.
I know enough to have built and tuned my car's engine with my own two hands.
It's not so much the exact number as it is the magnitude.
I understand why they do it. They can start with the same design and get a lot of variations. Every one of these games does this because it's an easy way to get a bunch of cars added to the list. But when you don't have many cars to start with, that's when the number of variants become apparent.
ethomaz
Banned
The number of cars at launch is valid complain but try to pass different cars that have interior, exterior, mechanical and driving way different from each other like you did is utter bullshit.
So no... it is not a general statement... just you trying to create a statement.
Or in a driving game you want to experience each different driving model.
That is something GT games nailed it.
TheAdmiester
Member
Awesome find
Yep, I thought it'd be good to make sure for certain that FM7 has it though, since obviously some stuff has to be cut from the FH counterpart to make 60FPS on console.
Just look one post above you and one below.
My comments always were about the number of cars and how people perceived them. People will see a 458 road car, a 458 GT3 and a 458 GR4 as a single model. Sure it drives differently, but for them its an easy way to inflate the total number of cars. A bit similar to the complaints about the « 50 » variations of GTRs in the previous games. The perception is similar. Agree to disagree, but from Ive seen people dont feel like theres a lot of different models of cars in this game.
Well, yes, I can certainly see someone being able to collect and drive every one of the 162 cars in the game. It is definitely harder to do that if your game has 3 or 4 or 5 times as many cars to choose from. That is something that GTS has definitely nailed.
FlutterPuffs
Member
As a 34 year old gamer, I'm not really perturbed by GT Sports car list, when in my teen years we had to live with 10-20 cars in a driving game until Gran Turismo came by. You kids are spoiled. Spoiled!
Still I can understand why it seems so little, when Forza 7 has 700 cars.
Still I can understand why it seems so little, when Forza 7 has 700 cars.
ethomaz
Banned
?Well, yes, I can certainly see someone being able to collect and drive every one of the 162 cars in the game. It is definitely harder to do that if your game has 3 or 4 or 5 times as many cars to choose from. That is something that GTS has definitely nailed.
I drove all cars that I collected in GT5... some 700-800ish.
Yautja_Warrior
Member
I guess it's down to the player really. I've been a GT fan since the first game and normally don't even touch close to half the cars in them. I just drive the ones I like, no need to spend money on the ones I don't like. I was never one for collecting all the cars.
The 150 ish cars in GT Sport will be fine for me and I dare say I probably won't even touch all of them either.
Ryu Hayabusa
Member
81 body styles? It's much worse than I expected
DLC going to be free?
Is it a game of $ 59.99 or $ 39.99?
Certainly does come down to the player. Other/Previous games may of had a lot of cars and for many players only a handful will ever be driven but at least there is a selection for everyone of varying tastes to choose from. For me, looking at the list it is pretty underwhelming. I honestly only car about a few of them. Not that it can be a problem. With some of my favorite sims I will generally stick to 1 or 2 cars. With that said, GT was the series I went to look and virtually drive many many different cars. I can say confidently it was the GT series that really pushed my interest and showed me a whole world of vehicles. Seems that is not longer what the series is about.
10-20? Your teenage years sound spoiled too.
I was playing games with 1 car (Daytona USA) or 3 (Sega Rally, and one of those was an unlockable). The only racing game pre-GT I can recall playing with more than 10 cars would be Ridge Racer... and if we're arguing about duplicates here, then oh boy, lol.
Yup, I remember playing the hell out of Sega Rally Championship which had a whole 3 cars.
I don't see anything wrong with GTS number of cars, that should be plenty for most gamers. When discussing the quality of cars or tracks, the amount of content in relation to the development schedule should be kept in mind.
I've played every GT game except 6 and I don't think I've ever drove more than 50 in any iteration.
D'ultimate
Member
I guess some here are finding it hard to understand that this is what GT is for a lot of people. Collecting and driving a lot of cars. And even if you're only interested in one or two the more choices that are available the more likely it is that the one or two you care about is there.
Understandable for some it's sad to see them stray away from that. For others, not so much.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
You know who won the graphics comparison when you see people moving the conversation to car count. It really is that simple.
As if anyone who talks about car count isnt happy to see GTS having amazing graphics. Get out of your bubble, not everyone is a fanboy.
This isnt the place to discuss car count though, that I admit.
There can be no winner in these threads. All the racers do different things better "graphically" / presentation wise. Poly counts, environmental effects, laser scan closeness to real tracks, real time weather/TOD/heat waves/reflections/mods/sounds/lighting/texture res/LOD/AA...and on and on....and on..haha
This thread will last for eternity, lol.
BBQ_of_DOOM
Member
The constant moving of goal posts is one of the greatest hallmarks of a lost argument.
John Wick
Member
Kaz has stated that GTS will have 400-500 cars when its all done. As long as they release new cars every 2-3 months then that's fine by me. I rarely use more than 20-30 cars in a game. More than enough for me.
I'm glad they got rid of the standard cars. They expect the models of these new cars to last 10 years. So I'm happy with that
FlutterPuffs
Member
It was Ridge Racer! Got my first console when I was 13, a Playstation. Sega Saturn didn't even exist here, except for this one kid who laughed at me when I told him I'm aiming for Sony's.
We live in incredible times, which is why knowing GT Sports have 150/86 type of cars doesnt really bother me at all.
VisualFidelity
Member
Forza 7 is the most intense and realistic feeling racer i have played. The sense of speed along with all the subtle animations and physics put it in a league above GT for me . GT physics are really bad which hurts the overall look even though its a pretty game.
Anyways, some pics of F7, both gameplay and photo mode
Anyways, some pics of F7, both gameplay and photo mode
VisualFidelity
Member
��
Show me some GT gameplay which looks as good as that, I dare you.
I can't see them locking off official FIA Championships either. It's exclusive to those with PS+ already, they don't need to segment it by introducing another step.
If they are going to charge for cars I'd like to buy some credit and obtain the ones I want as and when, rather than being forced to buy a bundle of cars of which some I might not like.
I hope they eventually add the Bentley GT3 2016 car. I love that thing in Project CARS 2.
I only used 'full dynamics' because it infers randomness i.e. a simulation of something that can change an instance. In context to the genre, to me 'full dynamics' means a system that can integrate with another based on a simulation. For instance, in Gran Turismo 5, the position of the sun changes the sky and the shadows because it does it dynamically, but it also uses variable weather data to change the scene at dynamic intervals.
I'm not sure a pre-defined trajectory can qualify as being dynamic, even though it does clearly change/transition the environment. Real-time time of day is an in-engine system though.
At the end of the day though I don't mind.
eso76
Member
Oh it is. It still is and it's 10 years old.
It's also still the only game to acknowledge that tarmac doesn't need to be wet to reflect the surroundings to a degree.
Subtle, but makes a huge difference, especially combined with road stripes paint having different diffuse and reflectiveness (also still a PGR4 exclusive afaik)
EDIT: man, this gif is even lower quality than i imagined : (
FlutterPuffs
Member
Whoa there tiger! Let's leave weather comparision when GT Sports shows off its rain.
None of those are better than this one below. Some of those are bad to look at, even.
Nobody has the game yet. Besides that the image above looks better, by miles.
Yautja_Warrior
Member
I get it will be disappointing for some, even I was at the beginning but the more I've seen of the game, the more I'm looking forward to playing it now. I like it when things evolve though, as I get bored with the same stuff over and over, same with the new God of War, can't wait to play that because it's doing something new.
I guess with the last few GT games not reviewing as well as some of the previous GT games and reviewers / fans complaining about the lack of polish (PS2 standard cars ect) and the fact this is the 7th main game now, PD wanted to try something different, a fresh start, instead of just doing more of the same.
This is going a bit off topic but, change is good. However stripping GTs identity is a bit much. If the GT name and PD logos weren't attached to this game it could easily just be past off as new new GTR game. Good in its own right but really not a Gran Turismo.
"Full dynamics" would make sense as a differentiation because it would imply the entire system being dynamic, including the shadow casting, etc. I still don't really agree with randomness being a requirement, because change is change at the end of the day, regardless of the trigger. It would be trivial for the rain in FM7 to be triggered randomly for example, or even to remain at a lower level of intensity. This wouldn't actually require any complexity be added to the system. The scope of change is a different matter though, so being able to perform a full 24hr cycle, predefined or not, would require a different solution, with the shadows able to be adjusted in real-time.
I think we've basically "met in the middle" here on this, and probably only seemingly disagreed due to the way ethomaz had started us off. He had initially claimed that what FM7 does was the same as GTS, where a ToD is selected prior to the race starting, and then it remains the same throughout. That would be static, regardless of if the calculations were real-time or not, if it doesn't change then it isn't dynamic. The confusion seems to be primarily due to conflating dynamic and real-time calculations as being the same thing, which isn't necessarily true (despite often going hand-in-hand). A lot of dynamic elements in many games are predefined. ToD is actually one of the most common examples, being on a constant cycle in many cases.
Inf3cted_b3ast
Member
If GTS ends up not having rainy weather at launch or at all, I feel like we're going to see a lot of rainy Forza screenshots in this thread. What's funny is, people pointed fingers at Driveclub when rainy screenshots where posted lol
The circle of liiiiife
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Polyphony modellers:
They waste man power/time and money modelling this useless stuff while could model more cars to use in-game. -_-'
Aceofspades
Banned
I suggest you make a new thread about car count in racing games, and take your complaints there. this thread is for comparing graphics features.
I think we will get wet weather track with cloudy skies but not falling rain. As long as we still get wet driving physics, and rain spray, it will be a good way to the real thing. Still no Driveclub though.
Yautja_Warrior
Member
Well a change sometimes can be a good thing, I guess we will find out soon though.
At least they have slapped on the polish now and the games looks fantastic, the early footage had me worried but now it looks seriously impressive with their car models and lighting.
Inf3cted_b3ast
Member
They might as well have no interiors and focus on just adding more cars right.....
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