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[thelastword]

So a franchise which was 30fps on XBONEX now runs at 60fps in 1080p mode, so it's clear that sacrifices would have to be made for the higher refresh.....What is most noticeable away from an in-depth faceoff is that lod and pop-in is worse in the 60fps version on top of worse AA and general IQ. Obviously, PC is where you go to if you want to maintain higher settings whilst also keeping 60fps, but there are many issues with this on PC, though perf is a bit better, but generally this barely looks better than Forza Horizon 3, perhaps worse in some scenarios due to the location and setting.....We shall see how it fares in reviews.....I'm not sure how long reviewers will keep on scoring the same formula, but an exotic car running through walls like they're ribbons is quite the sight...

There just isn't enough of a graphic or gameplay bump, and they're already on part 4....

 

[Darkdeus]

Personally I think FH4 looks better. The lighting just looks a bit more realistic to me. I also like how arcadey it is. I tend to prefer games to either be full sims like iRacing/rFactor 2/ Assetto Corsa or arcadey like Midnight Club. Simcade games always feel weird to me. The physics in forza have never been very realistic so the move towards fun and chaos over realism is a welcome one to me.

Here's a few more shots from the FH4 demo.

 

[Bogroll]

Personally I think FH4 looks better. The lighting just looks a bit more realistic to me. I also like how arcadey it is. I tend to prefer games to either be full sims like iRacing/rFactor 2/ Assetto Corsa or arcadey like Midnight Club. Simcade games always feel weird to me. The physics in forza have never been very realistic so the move towards fun and chaos over realism is a welcome one to me.

Here's a few more shots from the FH4 demo.

I can see this being the King until next gen comes along.

 

[phil_t98]

So a franchise which was 30fps on XBONEX now runs at 60fps in 1080p mode, so it's clear that sacrifices would have to be made for the higher refresh.....What is most noticeable away from an in-depth faceoff is that lod and pop-in is worse in the 60fps version on top of worse AA and general IQ. Obviously, PC is where you go to if you want to maintain higher settings whilst also keeping 60fps, but there are many issues with this on PC, though perf is a bit better, but generally this barely looks better than Forza Horizon 3, perhaps worse in some scenarios due to the location and setting.....We shall see how it fares in reviews.....I'm not sure how long reviewers will keep on scoring the same formula, but an exotic car running through walls like they're ribbons is quite the sight...

There just isn't enough of a graphic or gameplay bump, and they're already on part 4....

So reviewers should score GTS well because its exotic cars running around the same tracks since PS1 and then adding a few different cars and a few different tracks each time?

your posts are getting more and more salty. not only do you not own an xbox or have any intention of owning this game but you go out of your way to find problems with it. You are only looking at Demo code at this currant time so don't take anything as the finished game

 

[BigLee74]

Amazing. TLW finally steps out of his salty cave to grunt a comment. As he wipes salty tears away from his salty eyes, he still manages to immediately have FH4 pegged as inferior to FH3.

No one was surprised

 

[phil_t98]

Amazing. TLW finally steps out of his salty cave to grunt a comment. As he wipes salty tears away from his salty eyes, he still manages to immediately have FH4 pegged as inferior to FH3.

No one was surprised

hes comparing Demo code to final game comparison as well, we all know a lot can change from a Demo to release

 

[LostDonkey]

Are the bikes selectable? I hope they do a dlc with bikes.

 

[TBiddy]

I've realized that the only way to acquire respect here is to become a GT hater...
Oh, and my pics are from photomode in both games

Nonsense. The only way to get respect around here is to be somewhat pragmatic. You don't need to love FH4, PC2 or whatever game you're trying to downplay, but cherrypicking and comparing photomode to gameplay is just silly and makes you look like a fanboy.

Most of us agree that GTS looks spectacular, especially in the right lighting conditions. But there's no denying that it has been dethroned by FH4. Some would argue that FH3 and FM7 also has it beat.

 

[Zewp]

TLW is full of shit. FH4 looks much better than FH3. Considering how good FH3 already looked, I'm more than happy with this "graphic bump". As for gameplay, it's a racing game, what do you expect them to add? Shooting and maybe super powers? Do you even racing game?

All I want from the next FH game is more of the same and a new area to explore. Things like seasons and property management is just the cherry on top of the cake.

 

[phil_t98]

TLW is full of shit. FH4 looks much better than FH3. Considering how good FH3 already looked, I'm more than happy with this "graphic bump". As for gameplay, it's a racing game, what do you expect them to add? Shooting and maybe super powers? Do you even racing game?

All I want from the next FH game is more of the same and a new area to explore. Things like seasons and property management is just the cherry on top of the cake.

TLW constantly popping up in xbox related threads to, deffo an agenda there. Forza Horizon 4 looks amazing and hopefully when we see what the full game has to offer it will blow FH3 out of the water

 

[cypherq]

Gotta say I am very, very, very impressed with FH4 at night time. Every little thing casts a shadow from the headlights. When you smash through a wall and each little block casts its own shadow its really a sight to see.

I can say with confidence this is the most detailed, best looking racing game ive ever seen.

The lighting, reflections, environments, materials, skyboxes. Everything comes together so well its a joy. Theyve even improved the streaming so that any pop in is so minimal that its practically not noticable compared to 3. (Im on PC btw 4k30 everything maxed out +4xmsaa)

I cant post gifs of the shadows but if someone can race at night and make a gif it would be appreciated!!

Having recently been playing the demo have to say its the best looking racer I've ever played... the level of detail in here is insane.

For those who have the demo. Put the game into photo mode (or drone) and move to a building, look through the windows of the building - the interiors are fully rendered! Not only that each room has different furnishings!!!

Think it pretty pointless comparing FH4 with track based racers as they are targeting a different audience and as such track based racers have less dynamic things to cope with so can nail things down a bit more. Saying that FH4 is still the best looking racer IMHO. And its open world.

Really looking forward to playing it soon...

 

[Magik85]

All your pics are from the same area of the same track at the same time of day (on a standard PS4).... you absolutely need new charry picking tricks

First of all, its not the same area. There were pics from first corner, last corner and middle of the track. Basicly all arround Brands Hatch.
Secondly, should it matter what track is it? Afterall you said "all the track looks extremely better in GTS ".
All means all...including Brands Hatch.
And finally....ive posted also shots of other tracks before like Monza or Bathrust:

Spoiler

 

[Gingen]

Nonsense. The only way to get respect around here is to be somewhat pragmatic. You don't need to love FH4, PC2 or whatever game you're trying to downplay, but cherrypicking and comparing photomode to gameplay is just silly and makes you look like a fanboy.

Most of us agree that GTS looks spectacular, especially in the right lighting conditions. But there's no denying that it has been dethroned by FH4. Some would argue that FH3 and FM7 also has it beat.

dethroned where? a game without cars physic and that need a 500$ console to run at 1080p 60 (the same resolution and framerate of GTS on standard PS4) dethrone only itself....

First of all, its not the same area. There were pics from first corner, last corner and middle of the track. Basicly all arround Brands Hatch.
Secondly, should it matter what track is it? Afterall you said "all the track looks extremely better in GTS ".
All means all...including Brands Hatch.
And finally....ive posted also shots of other tracks before like Monza or Bathrust:

Spoiler

I'm sorry for you, but the graphics and performance of PC2 on console are a complete disaster and your cherry picking pics don't change this fact.... maybe if you have a 2000$ PC you can partially resolve those problems.

 

[TheAdmiester]

dethroned where? a game without cars physic and that need a 500$ console to run at 1080p 60 (the same resolution and framerate of GTS on standard PS4) dethrone only itself....

No car physics you say? So they can't move at all and they're entirely static? Strange how nobody who has early access has noticed this.

 

[Gingen]

No car physics you say? So they can't move at all and they're entirely static? Strange how nobody who has early access has noticed this.

you know exactly what I mean... an ultra arcade racing game can save a lot of computational resources compared to a sim (yes GTS is a sim, especially after the huge improvement of the tyre model with the recent update)

 

[SatansReverence]

you know exactly what I mean... an ultra arcade racing game can save a lot of computational resources compared to a sim (yes GTS is a sim, especially after the huge improvement of the tyre model with the recent update)

Been through this. The physics simulation at the heart of horizon would be doing 10 times more than any GT game.

 

[thelastword]

you know exactly what I mean... an ultra arcade racing game can save a lot of computational resources compared to a sim (yes GTS is a sim, especially after the huge improvement of the tyre model with the recent update)

Not just the advanced physics, but how well that plays out for those with a wheel. It's a whole other level to experience all the nuances of the track with a wheel in GT, dating all the way back to the PS2 days with GT3, farless for now, with all the improvements to feedback in GT5/6 last gen and now with GTS, where the latest GT entry received even more advanced tyre physics a few patches back............

 

[TheAdmiester]

Not just the advanced physics, but how well that plays out for those with a wheel. It's a whole other level to experience all the nuances of the track with a wheel in GT, dating all the way back to the PS2 days with GT3, farless, for now with all the improvements to feedback in GT5/6 and now GTS, which advanced tyre physics and feedback even more in GTS...

Agreed, I played GT1 on my Nokia N-GAGE the other day and it felt more realistic than real life. PD are wizards.

 

[Darkdeus]

Not just the advanced physics, but how well that plays out for those with a wheel. It's a whole other level to experience all the nuances of the track with a wheel in GT, dating all the way back to the PS2 days with GT3, farless for now, with all the improvements to feedback in GT5/6 last gen and now with GTS, where the latest GT entry received even more advanced tyre physics a few patches back............

Just out of curiosity what other sim racing games do you play? I grew up playing GT 2 and 3 with a wheel but have since mostly played rfactor, Iracing, Assetto Corsa, PC 2 etc. GTS was a big step physics wise for the GT series but the tire model still lacks the sidewall flex that sims like iRacing, Assetto Corsa Competizione, and PC2 have been modeling. The FFB lacks the road detail of those sims as well. It's still much better than any FFB for the Forza games at least. Now I'm not saying that GTS is a bad game it just is still lacking in those departments compared to those PC sims.

 

[Foxbat]

Agreed, I played GT1 on my Nokia N-GAGE the other day and it felt more realistic than real life. PD are wizards.

More realistic than real life you say?

What is it about GT that turns people into such rabid fanboys? It's a trend I'll never understand.

 

[Bogroll]

Forza Horizon 4 looks great, really like the graphics, they are the best for the time being.

Edit oops sorry wrong thread, thought this was the Next Gen Racing Graphics Face Off not the Next Gen physics/ steering wheel Face Off.
Ohhhhh boy, the salt, the god dam salt.

 

[Christocolus]

Forza Horizon 4 looks great, really like the graphics, they are the best for the time being.

Edit oops sorry wrong thread, thought this was the Next Gen Racing Graphics Face Off not the Next Gen physics/ steering wheel Face Off.
Ohhhhh boy, the salt, the god dam salt.

Lol

 

[ShapeGSX]

Forza Horizon 4 looks great, really like the graphics, they are the best for the time being.

Edit oops sorry wrong thread, thought this was the Next Gen Racing Graphics Face Off not the Next Gen physics/ steering wheel Face Off.
Ohhhhh boy, the salt, the god dam salt.

Well, if they’re going after the physics in this thread instead of the graphics, you know they agree that Forza Horizon 4 is the graphics king. It’s just hard for them to to admit such a thing. :-D

 

[GTR R35_Supra RZ]

By the Gods, it's an advanced physics, wheel thread now.

 

[Magik85]

I'm sorry for you, but the graphics and performance of PC2 on console are a complete disaster and your cherry picking pics don't change this fact.... maybe if you have a 2000$ PC you can partially resolve those problems.

And again...at least my shots were comparing similar TOD and weather. Just one page ago i proved that your comparations are the best example of cherry picking so ....
Anyway, FH4 is now by miles best looking driving game out there. No contest really.
And while PC2 on consoles has its flaws (mainly IQ and anisotropic filtering), i strongly disagree its a disaster.
All pictures from standard PS4 gameplay and replay. No photomode...

 

[phil_t98]

At the end of the day HE (you know who I mean) has moved the goal posts yet again because FH4 really looks that good, constant goal post moving to hit an agenda. One of his post says about the X only being able to do 60FPS in 1080p mode, we when you look at what the game is doing graphically in an open world environment its amazing that they can hit a solid 60FPS at 1080p, I couldn't see the pro doing that at this level of detail.
Now thats not dissing the Pro its just the extra power of the X really helps. Also the fact the it will also run in full 4K at 30FPS and the level of detail with no drops is awesome to.

As for the comparison video I will say yet again its Demo code running vs Full game code. wait and see if there is any changes

 

[drotahorror]

Couple of pictures I nabbed off reddit of FH4

 

[LostDonkey]

Utterly stunning.

The game has no equal right now.

 

[rokkerkory]

Someone is bench racing again lol

 

[Monad]

Just. Savage.

 

[GTR R35_Supra RZ]

That Porshe, sweet Jesus.. No @#$% mercy, pure Annihilation on all fronts..

Sony fanboys you should be grateful you get to witness such perfection, greatness of an unmatched racer ...and most definitely, start saving up for the X asap.

 

[Inviusx]

That Porshe, sweet Jesus.. No @#$% mercy, pure Annihilation on all fronts..

Sony fanboys you should be grateful you get to witness such perfection, greatness of an unmatched racer ...and most definitely, start saving up for the X asap.

It looks great but being forced to choose between 60/30hz if you have a 4k TV is stupid. Why can't I have 4k 60 in performance mode or something?

 

[ShapeGSX]

It looks great but being forced to choose between 60/30hz if you have a 4k TV is stupid. Why can't I have 4k 60 in performance mode or something?

They could have just stuck with 30hz like every other open world racing game rather than give you the option for 60Hz. Would that have been better?

 

[Inviusx]

They could have just stuck with 30hz like every other open world racing game rather than give you the option for 60Hz. Would that have been better?

They should have aimed for 4k 60hz, even if it meant reducing quality. This is supposed to be the big showpiece for the 1X and they blew it in my opinion.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

dethroned where? a game without cars physic and that need a 500$ console to run at 1080p 60 (the same resolution and framerate of GTS on standard PS4) dethrone only itself....

This is just a silly post, the performance is a limitation of the CPU so naturally 1080p had to be settled on for a game like this. Forza Horizon 4 is an open world racing game with detailed environments, traffic, race cars everywhere, weather and changing seasons where you can see literal miles into the distance and drive to these places. Gran Turismo Sport is a closed track racing game with limited external environmental detail outside of the track, the demands are relatively low in comparison.

You're sitting here talking about 1080p 60 on the base PS4, look at the Pro, it's checkerboard rendering 1800p so it's only raw rendering 1600x1800 which is 2,880,000 pixels, that's only 807,000 pixels above a raw 1080p render. Also GT Sport doesn't even look that great, with all the replay stuff and photomodes people dress it up way beyond what it actually looks like but this is its operational reality.

While Forza Horizon 4's operational reality is this...

 

[Turk1993]

It looks great but being forced to choose between 60/30hz if you have a 4k TV is stupid. Why can't I have 4k 60 in performance mode or something?

Again, nobody is forced to play 30fps. Want 4k60? there is the pc version wich if you have a powerfull rig you can even go beyond that you know. You should be happy that they took extra time to add 60fps mode on console in a open world game like this.

 

[ShapeGSX]

They should have aimed for 4k 60hz, even if it meant reducing quality. This is supposed to be the big showpiece for the 1X and they blew it in my opinion.

Apparently pixels and frequency are all that matters to you?

Well, you can always play Forza 7, since it seems to be the only console racing game that meets your criteria. (Shrug)

Or play Forza Horizon 4 on a PC. If your graphics card can’t handle 4K 60Hz, just turn down the options and quality until it works? Graphics be damned?

Personally, I’m fine with the trade offs they made to make the best looking and performing racing game this generation.

 

[thelastword]

This is just a silly post, the performance is a limitation of the CPU so naturally 1080p had to be settled on for a game like this. Forza Horizon 4 is an open world racing game with detailed environments, traffic, race cars everywhere, weather and changing seasons where you can see literal miles into the distance and drive to these places. Gran Turismo Sport is a closed track racing game with limited external environmental detail outside of the track, the demands are relatively low in comparison.

You're sitting here talking about 1080p 60 on the base PS4, look at the Pro, it's checkerboard rendering 1800p so it's only raw rendering 1600x1800 which is 2,880,000 pixels, that's only 807,000 pixels above a raw 1080p render. Also GT Sport doesn't even look that great, with all the replay stuff and photomodes people dress it up way beyond what it actually looks like but this is its operational reality.

GTS is closed track, but it's detail level and rendering level is higher than any racer too. We're talking about car detail, lighting, particles and general ATD (PBR, pit stop, crowds, physics).....All of these affects the CPU and GPU much more on top of 60fps, which is generally more demanding than 30. So we're talking realtime shadows, cube based reflections, high end lighting with raytracing, better particle effects, better texture work, even 60fps replays on PRO and better MB, and a higher rez of 1800CB with a more advanced rendering pipeline, so yes, it's pushing much more....

The reduced car physics in Horizon allows it to render it's open world, so that's the tradeoff right there on top of some serious lod issues...., Also FYI, the CPU does not limit your rendering resolution....

They should have aimed for 4k 60hz, even if it meant reducing quality. This is supposed to be the big showpiece for the 1X and they blew it in my opinion.

I remember there was a video which caused many X fans to believe this would be 4k 60fps on XBONEX, but they were brough back to reality when other sources chimed in. Still, I don't think that was ever on the cards, it's just like when some folk thought Ark survival would run 4k 60fps on XBONEX.....

https://www.ign.com/videos/2018/06/11/6-minutes-of-forza-horizon-4-on-xbox-one-x-at-4k-60fps-e3-2018

 

[Chozofication_]

FH4 is a rallisport challenge 2 moment for the one X, super impressive. I've not even looked twice at racers since forza 4 on 360 they've become really lazy and dlc ridden but this looks good.

Seems like it should be 1440p60 though since 4k30 is double the rendering load of 1080p60.

 

[Monad]

This is just a silly post, the performance is a limitation of the CPU so naturally 1080p had to be settled on for a game like this. Forza Horizon 4 is an open world racing game with detailed environments, traffic, race cars everywhere, weather and changing seasons where you can see literal miles into the distance and drive to these places. Gran Turismo Sport is a closed track racing game with limited external environmental detail outside of the track, the demands are relatively low in comparison.

You're sitting here talking about 1080p 60 on the base PS4, look at the Pro, it's checkerboard rendering 1800p so it's only raw rendering 1600x1800 which is 2,880,000 pixels, that's only 807,000 pixels above a raw 1080p render. Also GT Sport doesn't even look that great, with all the replay stuff and photomodes people dress it up way beyond what it actually looks like but this is its operational reality.

While Forza Horizon 4's operational reality is this...

Stop the public humiliation.

It isn't even fun anymore, is the perfect definition of abuse.

 

[BusierDonkey]

FH4 is a rallisport challenge 2 moment for the one X, super impressive. I've not even looked twice at racers since forza 4 on 360 they've become really lazy and dlc ridden but this looks good.

The whole Forza Horizon series has been really good, I still go back to FH2 on occasion as it really did have some fun roads to drive along with some interesting areas off the beaten path, Storm Island was pretty fun as well and for it's time the wind effects were really stunning. It's sad that the days when we had PGR, NFS, Burnout, etc to pick from are mostly gone. I really liked tearing into a new arcade racer and messing around. Horizon is really the closest thing I still have to those days. Hopefully the genre picks up steam again in the future.

 

[Bogroll]

FH4 is a rallisport challenge 2 moment for the one X, super impressive. I've not even looked twice at racers since forza 4 on 360 they've become really lazy and dlc ridden but this looks good.

Seems like it should be 1440p60 though since 4k30 is double the rendering load of 1080p60.

I get what your saying but people forget (myself included) this is going to have 72 players (i think) online at the same time and that must have a effect on performance.

 

[Kagey K]

Omg, I thought the console wars were bad, but this is a whole different level.

People trying to pick the most flattering version of their fav they can vs the worst pic they can find against your enemy. Then if proven wrong talk about physics engines and aftermarket steering wheels.

I feel gross just reading this thread. So thanks for that.

 

[BusierDonkey]

Omg, I thought the console wars were bad, but this is a whole different level.

People trying to pick the most flattering version of their fav they can vs the worst pic they can find against your enemy.

Racing games have been creating this same scenario since the first Forza game was announced and the console racing graphics wars were sparked. It's probably a big reason this thread exists at all, just to keep the arguments out of the OT threads. I've lurked GAF since it first started but never joined until recently. I really would love to see people spend more time taking shots of their favorite racers and posting away to prove a point than to do what you just described, everyone else can then decide for themselves what looks best. The problem is, if I post a 4K MAX PC screenshot of Horizon that looks as good it can, someone gets defensive and has to explain why it looks good and that because of those reasons it's unfair to praise it over another game they prefer. IMO who gives a crap why it looks good, the thread isn't "Next-gen Racing Graphics Face-off keeping in mind the physics engine and strains of an open world". I just want to see a bunch of awesome screenshots and videos myself. Once FH4 officially releases I may start posting some PC shots myself, but I'm sure not about to start fighting over them.

 

[Inviusx]

I understand that 4K 60 will be an option on PC, I think you would have to be blind to think that any console game could look better than any game running on a 4K capable PC.

Is that where we are at with this thread? Having to state that a 1080ti is more powerful than a Playstation?

I think FH4 is the best looking 30hz driving game on console, there is no doubt. Better than The Crew 2, Drive Club etc etc. If we want to talk about 60hz then I would concede and say that FH4 is the best looking 1080p 60hz game on console.

 

[Foxbat]

Stop the public humiliation.

It isn't even fun anymore, is the perfect definition of abuse.

thelastword is the punching bag of GAF. It's perfectly acceptable to beat it until its bursting at the seams.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

GTS is closed track, but it's detail level and rendering level is higher than any racer too. We're talking about car detail, lighting, particles and general ATD (PBR, pit stop, crowds, physics).....All of these affects the CPU and GPU much more on top of 60fps, which is generally more demanding than 30. So we're talking realtime shadows, cube based reflections, high end lighting with raytracing, better particle effects, better texture work, even 60fps replays on PRO and better MB, and a higher rez of 1800CB with a more advanced rendering pipeline, so yes, it's pushing much more....

The reduced car physics in Horizon allows it to render it's open world, so that's the tradeoff right there on top of some serious lod issues...., Also FYI, the CPU does not limit your rendering resolution....

Gran Turismo Sport's perceived level of detail advantage begins and ends with the cars, and even that isn't some huge stretch in detail, it's tiny and considering the disparity in number of vehicles it's even less of a feat. Everything beyond that is smoke and mirrors for maximum performance while still looking presentable. Forza Horizon 4's lighting is as visually impressive as GTS's, the particle system is just as impressive, the textures are better, the reflections are better, the shadows while baked still transition with time accordingly, cast accurately and do not wobble as the lower detailed RT shadows do in GTS which also cause foliage to flicker. On top of this you're completely forgetting about the fact that there's a weather system and four entirely different seasons in the game...

The fact of the matter is in gameplay you couldn't produce a single screenshot from GTS that looks better than a shot taken from Forza Horizon 4 gameplay, it's simply not possible because the overall package is visually inferior. You guys hide behind replays and photomodes like it's going out of style, so much so it's actually hard to find gameplay screenshots on the internet... Also the bit with the physics you're talking about is pure nonsense, the physics are different because it's an arcade game and shouldn't respond like a pure simulation, that has nothing to do with compute demands as if that makes any sense, it's a design choice and it's the right one to highlight the fun aspects of driving.

You're talking a whole lot but at the same time saying a lot of nothing. You're trying to sound technical but it doesn't matter because the end result is visual inferioriority. You're saying stuff like "a more advanced render pipeline" in relation to checkerboard rendering trying to dress it up as something good, raw rendering is better my guy so the spin doesn't do you any favors. Nothing limits your render resolution, the Xbox One X could render 8K resolution but it would be a slideshow. If you double your framerate it's going to come at the cost of resolution as the demand from a higher resolution is too much to maintain said framerate.

 

[DemonCleaner]

this topic is so full of bullshit it's hard to bear

I understand that 4K 60 will be an option on PC, I think you would have to be blind to think that any console game could look better than any game running on a 4K capable PC.

this argument surfaces again and again.. but it's so fucking stupid. really, just think about it. neither 4K nor 60fps will have any effect on asset quality or rendering quality (as in lighting, shading, shaders, materials). it's basically saying half life 2 must look better than doom remake because you can render it 8K/240 on a gtx1070.

 

[Dontero]

I wouldn't sat GTS lighting model is the same or worse than FH4. It is on another level (above). Especially when you compare hard problematic lighting conditions. GTS lighting is just a way more natural.

But i agree on models and environment. GTS models are great and probably are better than rest but there isn't that much difference and when you race it doesn't really matter. Environments are clearly superior in FH4 and this is big because GTS is just closed circuit game while FH4 is open world game.

 

[Kagey K]

thelastword is the punching bag of GAF. It's perfectly acceptable to beat it until its bursting at the seams.

Even if everyone knows he’s a joke, you all shouldn’t be just beating up on him.

It’s very obvious Sony can never do wrong, and nobody else can do right in his eyes. That’s not disputed.

You shoudnt be attacking him though, attack his weak ass arguments and disregard him after he runs out of excuses.