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Theres a few interesting choices but why in the world is Heracross there?
There's more iconic gen 2 pokemon then him.

As said in his post: Placeholder for Gen VI pokemon.

 

[Ryce]

As much as Little Mac deserves to be playable, Punch-Out!!'s about as insignificant a franchise in Japan as possible -- since it was never big over there, the nostalgia Westerners associate with the brand is nonexistent. Plus, Sakurai has said in the past that characters who can only punch don't offer enough to warrant being playable (Urban Champion), and that's probably why Little Mac was relegated to an Assist Trophy in Brawl. I don't think an outsourced Wii "revival" is enough to change all of that. Japan didn't even bat an eye at that game.

So, yeah, if Little Mac's playable I'll eat my hat. I just don't see it happening. (If an American studio made Smash Bros. it would've happened a long time ago, though.)

 

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

I think he might have a decent shot if it's made clear to Sakurai that there is a lot of fan demand for him in the west, but I do agree that he's probably not a shoo-in like a lot of people think.

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

I'd love for Sakurai to go the obscure route honestly and go crazy.

Honestly, my *dream* obscure character, apart from the Western-only Tin Star (who I'm not sure Nintendo owns?), is throwing in Devil from Devil World as a fully playable character. He's probably my favorite minor Nintendo character. Honestly, I'd love if Nintendo could create a secondary cross-over series for their lesser characters, like what they kinda did with Captain Rainbow. Like I posted in a thread the other day, throw them into Mario Kart and turn it into Mario + Obscure Nintendo Character Racing.

And question, does Nintendo own Genius-Sonority? Because I wanna see the Denpa Men in in some form.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

Are there many/any characters left that are actually guaranteed beyond a shadow of a doubt?

I often felt like a lot of the most logical choices made it into Brawl already. Right now the only "shoe ins" aren't as much shoe-ins as much as ... characters that "make sense" ?

 

[BGBW]

Are there many/any characters left that are actually guaranteed beyond a shadow of a doubt?

Yes.

 

[qq more]

I know you aren't serious but do people actually want the eShop bag as a playable character?

...Admittedly, that would be actually fucking hilarious.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

I know you aren't serious but do people actually want the eShop bag as a playable character?

...Admittedly, that would be actually fucking hilarious.

"hilarious" always kinda gets ruined for me when the moveset is too serious though.


That's one thing I hate about R.O.B with his lazers and stuff. Why can't he just stack up coloured blocks or other absolutely silly stuff?

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

I remember people posting "AR Man" as a character, now that would be cool.

I assume he'd utilize the Dragons and such from the AR Game on the 3DS.

EDIT: Do people elaborate on the weirder choices? You see tons of little movesets for Ridley and all them, but I'd love to see people actually attempt for fun to create legitimate move sets for the wackier characters.

 

[astarisborn94]

Glad to see someone other than me sees Mach Rider potential.

I think Mach Rider is our second retro rep if we get one. Sakurai did state that Mach Rider was his favorite newcomer for Melee and Mach Rider is the spiritual predecessor to F-zero, so it is kind of important. Also I see great revival potential in Mach Rider that I could see Sakurai ultilizing.

I still can't agree with putting Roy there instead of Chrom. I'm not denying that there is still demand for Roy, but Awakening is a big success and a pretty important game for Nintendo, so I see no reason why Chrom wouldn't be chosen over Roy.

Chrom is certainly a possibility (I feel as it will come down to him and Roy for the third Fire Emblem spot), but I think Roy has the upper hand here.

My main issue with Chrom is that I don't see much standing out about him. Sure you could argue his game being a big success, but looking at representation of Smash characters, it's hard to see Sakurai seriously taking into account sales, especially when Chrom doesn't stand out in his game as much as Marth, Ike and Roy did in their own games (Lucina being a major character in FE13 who looks similar to Marth and DLC consisting of past lords). Also Chrom is very similar to Ike in how he would play, which also hurts since Sakurai looks for uniqueness. Not to mention that Roy is far more popular within the Smash community than Chrom.

The only advantage I see Chrom having is if Sakurai feels a Fire Emblem newcomer would go over better than Roy's return, but with Chrom being basically "expected but not wanted", it makes it hard to see that.

Ah! Welcome to NeoGaf. I just looked at your roster first without reading anything and I was wondering why it look familiar. Now I saw your name, so no wonder your roster look familiar.

I would be happy with the roster, but it might be lack of surprises for me.

Glad to see you here.

Yeah, I do expect the roster to have a few characters that most people don't expect. Mach Rider is one of those characters I feel will surprise most people.

Mach Rider definitely has potential, but Sakurai would likely have to have a vision for a character mechanic. I'm not putting it beyond him to come up with a really cool mechanic for him, but I wouldn't put my money on Mach Rider being the character who brings in new mechanics.

That said, do you think there will be a lot of new characters that will have fresh gameplay mechanics?
Melee and Brawl both brought in characters with new aspects in that regard - the Ice Climbers as pair character, Peach's random item pull, Marth's stronger sword tip, Zelda/Sheik's transformation, Pichu's self-hurting (for better or worse), Lucario's aura, gliding, tether recoveries, PT's fatigue, Wario's in-game timer charging, Olimar as a whole...

I'm not sure how many, but I do think we'll see some new faces with unique gameplay mechanics.

I could imagine Mach Rider being like Captain Falcon in that most of his moves are completely unique (maybe with a darker overtone) with his Final Smash being his Mach Bike.

I can't wait for 6th gen Lucario to be revealed and this thread to go nuts over it.

I look forward to when everyone said "OMG, 6th Gen Mascot is like guarantee", even if it's revealed to be butt-ugly.

Considering how Zoroark flopped I doubt they'll try another Lucario.

I understand that it never did as well as Lucario, but I thought it was a popular Pokémon.

I have to question why Takamaru is so commonly seen on rosters. It seems almost like the group of Smash fans has collectively convinced itself that he's likely, but I've never actually seen someone request him per se.

Mainly appearly in Samurai Warriors 3 and Nintendo Land is what made him likely. Sakurai said that if he ges another game that he will probably get into Smash. Now this was said Pre-Melee, but Sakurai is known for sticking to his stance and I feel as these two appearances will be enough to get Takamaru in.

Are there many/any characters left that are actually guaranteed beyond a shadow of a doubt?

I often felt like a lot of the most logical choices made it into Brawl already. Right now the only "shoe ins" aren't as much shoe-ins as much as ... characters that "make sense" ?

At this point, I don't consider anyone a guarantee since any characters could get passed up.

As you said, I think it's better to say characters that make sense, which to me, are characters I don't see being left out.

I'd be pretty surprised if Mewtwo, King K. Rool, Palutena, Ridley, Takamaru and Little Mac were to get left out. Mega Man too, but that's only if we get third-party newcomers.

 

[Red Arremer]

I know you aren't serious but do people actually want the eShop bag as a playable character?

I would cream my pants if that happened. I would be so amused and happy that I'd even forgive if they didn't put Ridley in as playable character.

 

[BGBW]

eShop Shopping Bag Special Moves

B: DSi Shopping Channel
Summons the cast of Mario Bros 2 to throw an egg into a box. This will power up B Side. They can be knocked away by opponents, but if they run into an opponent they'll chuck the egg at them.


B Up: Wii Shopping Channel
Summon a ? block underneath Bag and retro Mario will jump from the bottom of the screen to hit it giving Bag a boost. Mario will damage anyone he hits.

B Side: Present
Throws a small present from within itself at the opponent. If it connects the present opens and a random game icon will pop out inflicting damage based on the game.

B Down: Demo
On the ground it will jump in an arch, if in the air it will slam down.

Tries to land on the opponents head handles down so as to cover their face with its body. Will keep giving them damage for the next thirty moves.

Final Smash: 3DS eShop
The washing line appears at the top and then the baubles skim across the screen dropping at random intervals. Bag hides behind a box in the background and it lasts until the game has downloaded i.e. enough baubles have filled the box.

 

[Ryce]

Are there many/any characters left that are actually guaranteed beyond a shadow of a doubt?

I often felt like a lot of the most logical choices made it into Brawl already. Right now the only "shoe ins" aren't as much shoe-ins as much as ... characters that "make sense" ?

Right. Melee added Bowser, Peach, and Zelda, and Brawl rounded out the top tier of Nintendo characters with Wario, Dedede, Pokémon Trainer, and Diddy Kong. Nintendo's all-stars are accounted for, which makes predicting SSB4's roster especially difficult.

 

[Chet Rippo]

DKC3.

Which one?

 

[BGBW]

Which one?

SNES.

 

[Chet Rippo]

SNES.

There are people who don't like the music?

 

[I'M FINISHED!]

Duck Hunt Dog should be the new Meta Knight.

 

[~ZIO~]

Someone from the new Kid Icarus game would be a great addition to the new smash bros game, and considering Sakurai is working on it, I wouldn't doubt their inclusion; Pyrrhon being the one I personally would like to have.

 

[ffdgh]

There are people who don't like the music?

When compared to 2 yeah tho it has its own charm to it.

My personal favorites would be the tree stages theme and the mount themes.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

Rather than predicting specific characters I think the first trailer might be most telling cause a roster can, more so than characters, have a certain flavor to it's direction.


I've got a few potential rosters in mind that essentially fit directional molds:

1.Playing it safe.
expectations: Waluigi, Bowser.Jr

reasoning: Uninspired but popular characters, a lot from franchises already widely represented. But hey, they're popular.


2.Extending the borders
expectations: New franchises represented such as Animal Crossing and smaller franchises like Kid Icarus, DK extended. (Palutena, K.Rool, doesn't really matter)

reasoning: There's not a lot of clear-cut choices but a lot of the franchises represented feel a bit lonely. This is a great way to get more villains and interesting side characters in but also avoids smash bros having too many reps from just the biggest series.

3.Taking the Challenge
expectations: Ridley, Mach Rider

reasoning: some characters can only possibly be added with either (a) a lot of difficulty or (b) a really interesting and unique moveset. Heck, just figuring out how they'd work might take 2x the time of another character.
These types of guys will only make it in if they actually put "interesting" as their top priority.


4.Sakurai what is wrong with you!?
expectations: Anything that makes Duck Hunt Dog seem sane.

reasoning: There's always one super weird character. But we also used to have a quota to fill of characters that -needed- to be in. Perhaps the less obvious roster gives Sakurai incentive to push the boundaries of wanzy choices even more than ever before.


5.How could it possibly be THIS bad?!
expecations: Toad, Landmaster Tank, Dark Link, Young Link, Dr.Link

reasoning: Let's be honest. There's two ways of playing it "safe". option #1 is to go for seemingly expected characters like Bowser Jr or Waluigi ..but at least they can still be interesting to play as. Option 5 is a different type of safe. It's the type where movesets are uninspired and new characters could only possibly appeal to a target audience that should already be represented.

---------------------------------------

Those are my main roster directions, I think the first trailer tends to make it semi-obvious what direction we might expect. Though most rosters are a combination of some of these.

I'm leaving out anything 3rd party related cause I just don't feel like discussing third parties.

 

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

My main issue with Chrom is that I don't see much standing out about him. Sure you could argue his game being a big success, but looking at representation of Smash characters, it's hard to see Sakurai seriously taking into account sales, especially when Chrom doesn't stand out in his game as much as Marth, Ike and Roy did in their own games (Lucina being a major character in FE13 who looks similar to Marth and DLC consisting of past lords). Also Chrom is very similar to Ike in how he would play, which also hurts since Sakurai looks for uniqueness. Not to mention that Roy is far more popular within the Smash community than Chrom.

The only advantage I see Chrom having is if Sakurai feels a Fire Emblem newcomer would go over better than Roy's return, but with Chrom being basically "expected but not wanted", it makes it hard to see that.

I think recency is a big factor in series with rotating casts like Fire Emblem. We know Roy and Lucas got into Melee and Brawl because they were the newest main characters from their series and for pretty much no other reason.

I can't agree that sales don't matter, either. I'm not saying that they determine everything, but they are the reason why Mario and Pokemon have the most character representation or why Marth is the main Fire Emblem character. It's true that some characters are oddball choices, but in general I think sales (which are a big part of popularity too) are a pretty big factor.

I haven't played Awakening, so I can't judge whether Chrom is important in the game itself, but it seems like he's no less important than just about any other Fire Emblem lord. I think he at least has more going for him than Ike did before Brawl was released (not only has Awakening itself been more successful in Japan than Path of Radiance was, but the DLC has apparently sold a lot too).

I don't think Roy can beat out Chrom. Roy has a decent amount of fan support, and Awakening shows that he is still kind of relevant, but Chrom has sales and recency on his side. I don't think it means much that Roy has more support from Smash Bros. fans because in that case we shouldn't get any new characters at all before we bring back the cut Melee characters.

I do agree that I'm not sure how they could make Chrom an interesting character while differentiating him from the current Fire Emblem characters, though. I think that if they seriously can't think of a way to make him interesting, they could just cut Ike and transfer his moveset over to Chrom, but who knows. I don't think there's any way either Ike or Roy can directly compete with Chrom, though, and I think the unique character issue works against Roy just as much as it works against Chrom.

Rather than predicting specific characters I think the first trailer might be most telling cause a roster can, more so than characters, have a certain flavor to it's direction.

Waluigi being one of the first characters revealed would be hilarious. I can't think of anyone more anti-hype.

Based on how the previous games turned out, I think this game's roster will primarily be a combination of 2 and 3, moreso than any of the previous games' rosters were. We're just about out of ones (I guess Chrom and probably a new Pokemon are the only ones I can really think of) and if there were more than a few fours, I think the novelty would wear off.

But I don't think fives as you describe them are that bad. I don't think they're "playing it safe" so much as they are the kind of character that gets put in to fluff up the roster just because the developers have extra time, like the Melee clones or the cut Brawl characters. Even if they're sort of half-assed, I like having some characters like that in the game, and they don't take resources that would have gone towards fully unique characters anyway.

So I guess Melee's newcomers would look like this:

1. Peach, Bowser, Mewtwo
2. Marth
3. Zelda, Ice Climbers
4. Mr. Game & Watch
5. Dr. Mario, Ganondorf, Young Link, Falco, Pichu, Roy

And Brawl's like this:

1. Wario, Diddy Kong, Lucario
2. Wolf, Zero Suit Samus, Lucas, Ike, Olimar, Pit
3. Pokemon Trainer
4. ROB, Snake, Sonic
5. Toon Link

 

[Boss Doggie]

What if Sakurai trolled us with Slippy being a new character

 

[Professor Beef]

What if Sakurai trolled us with Slippy being a new character

I've wanted that since Melee.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

Waluigi being one of the first characters revealed would be hilarious. I can't think of anyone more anti-hype.

Hahahah yeah. I'd honestly adjust my roster expectations significantly if someone like him
is considered as one of the dramatic early reveals.

Based on how the previous games turned out, I think this game's roster will primarily be a combination of 2 and 3, moreso than any of the previous games' rosters were. We're just about out of ones (I guess Chrom and probably a new Pokemon are the only ones I can really think of) and if there were more than a few fours, I think the novelty would wear off.

Oh yes I fully agree. Pretty much all of the solid #1 characters have already made it in. The big problem with category #1 right now is that the only way to make it work is to oversaturate the game with Mario & Pokemon characters, which'd just be lame.

If the first batch is relatively uninspired it could still happen as a "worst option" though, but I don't expect it.

But I don't think fives as you describe them are that bad. I don't think they're "playing it safe" so much as they are the kind of character that gets put in to fluff up the roster just because the developers have extra time, like the Melee clones or the cut Brawl characters. Even if they're sort of half-assed, I like having some characters like that in the game, and they don't take resources that would have gone towards fully unique characters anyway.

Well the problem with 5 is slightly twofold, although I did sorta make a joke out of it:

1. certain characters like toad would probably have their own moveset but ... wow, I just can't imagine a character so insignificant making it into the final roster. Same for something like Waddle Dee.

2. I actually love "fluff" clones that take little to no effort and just give us extra stuff. My bigger problem is the idea that we could have 2-3 links or 2-3 marios that all have "original" movesets.

(think: wolf link, skyward sword link and toon link; Mario, Paper Mario, etc) where rather than "new" characters we get duplicates of old ones that still cost a similar amount of time.

If an entire roster, or the largest parts of a roster are filled by the effort-taking types of duplicates that's about the worst I can imagine happening.

A robust roster of #1-#4 with a whole bunch of clones added isn't bad at all of course.

1. Peach, Bowser, Mewtwo
2. Marth
3. Zelda, Ice Climbers
4. Mr. Game & Watch
5. Dr. Mario, Ganondorf, Young Link, Falco, Pichu, Roy

Ganondorf might actually belong in #1. He's a clone, but technically speaking he's also a character that needed to be in.

1. Wario, Diddy Kong, Lucario
2. Wolf, Zero Suit Samus, Lucas, Ike, Olimar, Pit
3. Pokemon Trainer
4. ROB, Snake, Sonic
5. Toon Link

I'm actually not sure where I'd put Zero Suit Samus, she's like a weird hybrid mix of #1, #2 and #5 cause she's another version of a really popular character.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

What if Sakurai trolled us with Slippy being a new character

Deep down everybody at some point has wanted this.

 

[Azure J]

Deep down everybody at some point has wanted this.

Agreed.

So what's new? Roster stuff again? All I'm going to say is Takamaru and Mike Jones have to get some spotlight somehow. Sakurai pls.

 

[Snakey]

When Snakey went to look at Japanese forums, he said he saw a lot of requests for Takamaru. I guess that's kind of anecdotal, though.

Retro requests actually were uncommon from what I saw. However, when a retro request did come up, nearly all the time it was Takamaru.

I do agree that I'm not sure how they could make Chrom an interesting character while differentiating him from the current Fire Emblem characters, though. I think that if they seriously can't think of a way to make him interesting, they could just cut Ike and transfer his moveset over to Chrom, but who knows. I don't think there's any way either Ike or Roy can directly compete with Chrom, though, and I think the unique character issue works against Roy just as much as it works against Chrom.

I think if Chrom gets in it will be at the expense of Ike. Chrom's concept art shows that they were really thinking of Ike when designing the character. I think Roy will also not get in if Chrom gets in as well (because cutting Ike, but keeping Roy would seem strange, though I think Roy would stick out more aesthetically than Ike compared to Chrom). FE9 and FE10 were two of the three lowest selling games in the series in Japan (only three games in the Fire Emblem series sold below 200K in Japan). If Roy is the third character in a "Marth + Chrom" scenario, it will be because they want to perhaps utilize Roy in the future.

http://**********.com/?p=71773

One of the higher-ups at Intelligent Systems wanted to remake Akaneia Senki, Akaneia Senki was remade for FE12. One of the higher-ups wanted to make Fire Emblem All-Stars, Fire Emblem All-Stars basically happened for FE13. One of the higher-ups wants to remake FE6, a FE6 remake happens for FE14?

I also got the strange feeling that having three blue-haired swordsmen represent Fire Emblem would not sit well with Sakurai for some reason.

Overall, the only two scenarios I am expecting for Fire Emblem in Smash 4 in terms of playable characters are:

Marth
Chrom

or

Marth
Roy
Ike

 

[Shadow Hog]

http://**********.com/?p=71773

You may have noticed that the Nintendo site that you Go to is blacklisted 'round these parts.

 

[Snakey]

You may have noticed that the Nintendo site that you Go to is blacklisted 'round these parts.

Yeah, I forgot that, should I delete the link entirely?

On a sidenote, speaking of characters that are more "expected" than actually wanted, the Pokemon X and Y announcement is probably going to cannibalize whatever small fanbase that Zoroark had. Zoroark was too much of a retread of Lucario in terms of aesthetics (a talking anthropomorphic canine Pokemon). Hopefully, Game Freak designs something else other than an anthropomorphic canine (or furry in general) for the Genesect movie.

I think we will be seeing two major 6th-generation Pokemon in February (or maybe even the coming days/weeks):
1. A new evolution of Eevee (the Pikachu short for the 2013 movie is about Eevee's and they have been hinting a new Eevee evolution form)

2. The first major sixth-generation Pokemon that will likely co-star the movie alongside Genesect.

Since this new Pokemon generation game will be released in October 2013, there is a very good chance we will see Generation 6 Pokemon in Pokeballs for Smash 4. For comparison, Pokemon Diamond/Pearl was released in September 2006 in Japan.

However, with Black/White being old news, this effectively makes all the legendaries/promotional Pokemon for Black/White pretty obsolete. Zoroark is the only one left who is plausible for Smash 4 as a playable character. Genesect's chances are likely shot seeing as he most likely will be sharing his movie with the first major Pokemon of Generation 6.

It could very well be that the only new Pokemon added to Smash 4 is Mewtwo. However, it depends on what kind of impression the first major Pokemon of Generation 6 leaves on people. However, even then, its very likely that the roster will have been finalized by the time 2013 movie is released in theatres in Japan (July 2013), so a reaction from the fanbase would not be able to impact inclusion, but rather inclusion for such a Pokemon would either be through Game Freak/The Pokemon Company insisting on Sakurai to include him/her/it or Sakurai thinking the new Pokemon would be someone Smash fans would like to play as (Sakurai likely has already seen it).

There is only one 6th generation Pokemon that will have a shot for playable status in Smash 4, and that will be the Pokemon starring alongside Genesect in the 2013 movie. We will likely find out the identity to this new Pokemon in February.

 

[Shadow Hog]

Yeah, I forgot that, should I delete the link entirely?

Naw. IIRC it was because they were too eager to post rumors that people on NeoGAF were taking as fact, so that block was put in place to get people to double-check what they were posting was actual news and not rumor.

Or something like that.

Point is, you can cite them, just... not directly.

 

[astarisborn94]

I think recency is a big factor in series with rotating casts like Fire Emblem. We know Roy and Lucas got into Melee and Brawl because they were the newest main characters from their series and for pretty much no other reason.

At GDC 2008, Sakurai outlined his four criteria which characters had to meet. Lucas had to meet them. The fact that he did is what got him in. I'm not sure if this applied to characters in 64 and Melee as well, but I highly doubt recentness was enough to warrant Roy's inclusion, else he wouldn't be one of the most popular newcomers in Melee.

I can't agree that sales don't matter, either. I'm not saying that they determine everything, but they are the reason why Mario and Pokemon have the most character representation or why Marth is the main Fire Emblem character. It's true that some characters are oddball choices, but in general I think sales (which are a big part of popularity too) are a pretty big factor.

Most any Pokémon could be added and be made into decent fighters. Potential Mario newcomers are also more popular than pretty much any non-Big Three character (Big Three being Mario, Pokémon and Zelda). The thing is, there's a good reason why the roster is being flooded with Mario or Pokémon addition and it's this:

NP: How did you go about choosing which characters to include in the final roster? Were there any characters that you could have included, but weren't able to for what-ever reason?

MS: Of course there were some characters we couldn't include, but we've decided that we're just not going to talk about them. [Laughs] As far as choosing which characters, we had to really look at the series that would be represented in the game and create a balance that would make fans of all the series happy. We didn't want to have all Mario characters, all Pokémon characters... We looked at each series and tried to pick the characters that would have the widest appeal to the largest fan base. And of course, we looked at games like Animal Crossing and Nintendogs, where there aren't really any characters that lend themselves to fighting, and we decided not to include characters from those series as fighting characters. One thing that is kind of a challenge is that we haven't had a lot of new characters from Nintendo since Captain Olimar [that could work well in a fighting game]; a lot of games have been Mario titles or new iterations in existing series.

If Sakurai truly valued sales as a serious factor, the roster would be flooded with Mario and Pokémon characters. New additions will get in by their own worth, not because a game makes big $$$.

I don't think Roy can beat out Chrom. Roy has a decent amount of fan support, and Awakening shows that he is still kind of relevant, but Chrom has sales and recency on his side. I don't think it means much that Roy has more support from Smash Bros. fans because in that case we shouldn't get any new characters at all before we bring back the cut Melee characters.

If Chrom and Zoroark/6th gen didn't suffer from varying degree of being "expected, but not wanted", perhaps I would agree. We'll have to see how much Chrom support grows one FE13 comes out worldwide, but I don't think a Pokémon newcomer will get in over Mewtwo this game since the ones we already have and Mewtwo already have a better resume than any other potential addition from that franchise. If a Pokémon newcomer is added, it'll either be the last addition from the franchise or even beat out Lucario, but I think Mewtwo will take priority.

I do agree that I'm not sure how they could make Chrom an interesting character while differentiating him from the current Fire Emblem characters, though. I think that if they seriously can't think of a way to make him interesting, they could just cut Ike and transfer his moveset over to Chrom, but who knows. I don't think there's any way either Ike or Roy can directly compete with Chrom, though, and I think the unique character issue works against Roy just as much as it works against Chrom.

I don't think they'll just copy paste what Ike has, give it to Chrom and tweak his stats. If Chrom were to get in, I think he'll work more like a lugified Ike, but different enough to where he plays considerably different.
---
Regarding online, what would you like to see out of it? I'm hoping for the following:
DLC (especially characters, but I know that's very unlikely)
Voice Chat (with the option to turn it off for those who don't want it)
Options to play worldwide, continent, nation, and region
Customized match type outside of friend battle
And of course minimal lag.

 

[Randdalf]

Did they explicitly choose to not put in an Animal Crossing characters in Brawl?

edit: ah, post above me

 

[Snakey]

I do think six slots is possible for Pokemon, and that Sakurai will try his best to bring back all the playable Pokemon from Brawl plus Mewtwo if he has to bring in a 6th-generation Pokemon. I don't think there are any Pokemon in Brawl that Sakurai is going to go into Smash 4 with the intention of cutting, and that if any of Brawl's playable Pokemon (plus Mewtwo) don't get in, it will be due to time constraints than anything else.

Hopefully, Sakurai won't have that problem this time due to having a much bigger team and much longer development time.

However, if the the first posterboy for 6th-generation is a Pokemon that could not translate well to a playable fighter or is another Pokemon that is yet another Lucario/Zoroark, I could very well see them just keeping all of Brawl's playable Pokemon, adding back in Mewtwo, and then calling it a day.

 

[GamerSoul]

I'd be fine with 6 Pokemon. Heh, it could be a little homage from the games where the max you could carry is 6. And I agree Snakey, Sakurai shouldn't have problems with time constraints this time around, no excuses why everyone at this point cannot be added. Adding characters should be up there in priority, and if he can't come up with a moveset for a certain character give it to the Tekken/Tales guys because they could easily work their magic.

 

[astarisborn94]

I'd be fine with 6 Pokemon. Heh, it could be a little homage from the games where the max you could carry is 6. And I agree Snakey, Sakurai shouldn't have problems with time constraints this time around, no excuses why everyone at this point cannot be added. Adding characters should be up there in priority, and if he can't come up with a moveset for a certain character give it to the Tekken/Tales guys because they could easily work their magic.

Technically, we already do...

But yeah, six slots for Pokémon would be nice to see. Brawl's roster + Mewtwo and whatever they throw at us would be the ideal situation. I actually look forward to see what the Gen 6 mascot turns out to be.

 

[Majukun]

i think bayonetta will be 100% in it.

 

[Snakey]

Technically, we already do...

But yeah, six slots for Pokémon would be nice to see. Brawl's roster + Mewtwo and whatever they throw at us would be the ideal situation. I actually look forward to see what the Gen 6 mascot turns out to be.

Like I said before I hope its not another anthropomorphic canine (or furry in general), however, I think its definitely going to be humanoid (anthropomorphic). I doubt it will be another canine, though I think its highly possible it could be another furry.

We will just have to wait until February.

 

[Ryce]

i think bayonetta will be 100% in it.

Why, exactly? Bayonetta's a cult hit with little mainstream recognition. She also seems a bit too "mature" for a game like Smash Bros. in both physical design and attack capability. I'm confident all guest characters will be company mascot-types from franchises selling in the tens of millions: Mega Man, Pac-Man, Slime, someone from Final Fantasy, etc. Bayonetta's far too minor league.

 

[Black-Wind]

Weren't Marill and Togepi more the Gold/Silver figureheads. Pichu was more the rep for egg Pokémon.

Nope.

Masuda actually goes on record as saying that they put a ton of time and effort into making Pichu and says that he's his favorite Pokemon design (until Victini). That's reflected in both the anime and games if you pay attention to that kinda thing.

Pichu's actually a pretty damn big deal in Pokemon.

I certainly see where his potential as a newcomer is coming from, but the Smash fanbase talks as if he's almost certain, or a shoe in, to the point that it really does feel like groupthink at this point, an echo chamber.

Congratulations, you have now stumbled upon why I don't partake in Smash talk anymore.

I pop in here sometimes when I see the thread come up on my sub-list but it's never really different. It's never what people really want or what's actually likely (cause no one can know what's actually likely with out new info) it's just what they expect based on some pattern. I don't think many people actually want Chrom for example, they just expect him. At the end of the day it's just a more advanced version of brawl's "Mystical Japan likes XYZ" imo.

Hell, last time I was here I had some huge debate with someone because my obsession with Pokemon lead me to believe that there would be a 6th gen revealed and released before Smash 4 (I think I even made a proper bet about it for $200 on here but I forgot who ...). Most people brushed me off as some nut-job because I don't reinforce the outcomes they expect and that guy really hated the idea because it would shake up what people expect for the series in Smash.

 

[GamerSoul]

Why, exactly? Bayonetta's a cult hit with little mainstream recognition. She also seems a bit too "mature" for a game like Smash Bros. in both physical design and attack capability. I'm confident all guest characters will be company mascot-types from franchises selling in the tens of millions: Mega Man, Pac-Man, Slime, someone from Final Fantasy, etc. Bayonetta's far too minor league.

The biggest thing Bayonetta has in her favor is that Bayo 2 was revealed a WiiU exclusive. Yes it's true Bayo has a lot of mature themes but at the same time her character is very quirky, stylish and charismatic so she would fit in, imo. She can be toned down easily if need be. Doubt it's going to happen but it would be something.

I pop in here sometimes when I see the thread come up on my sub-list but it's never really different. It's never what people really want or what's actually likely (cause no one can know what's actually likely with out new info) it's just what they expect based on some pattern. I don't think many people actually want Chrom for example, they just expect him. At the end of the day it's just a more advanced version of brawl's "Mystical Japan likes XYZ" imo.

But what can you do? Without info there can only be speculation and predictions. And the more logical choices can be based on past decisions. It has become stagnant we all know that. After the first trailer character we'll see if it stays the same. I doubt it because thats how it works. And I think it's ok to only expect some characters too. i'm expecting Chrom but I want Lyn. We're going to get FE Awakening here eventually so maybe by actually getting a chance to play it more people will want him in. And for the Japan thing, it would be selfish to thnik we're the only ones that matter so Japan's input is very important. They're the ones making it lol. What I'm basically saying is that looking it from every angle is perfectly fine, even if some views are more predominant.

Hell, last time I was here I had some huge debate with someone because my obsession with Pokemon lead me to believe that there would be a 6th gen revealed and released before Smash 4 (I think I even made a proper bet about it for $200 on here but I forgot who ...). Most people brushed me off as some nut-job because I don't reinforce the outcomes they expect and that guy really hated the idea because it would shake up what people expect for the series in Smash.

I vaguely remember this but I know you did make a PKMN prediction along those lines so good stuff. What else you got?

 

[SmithnCo]

i think bayonetta will be 100% in it.

I think Wonderful 101 characters can stand a chance. Bayonetta... I dunno. Seems more ill-fitting than Snake.

 

[fisheyes]

I do think six slots is possible for Pokemon, and that Sakurai will try his best to bring back all the playable Pokemon from Brawl plus Mewtwo if he has to bring in a 6th-generation Pokemon. I don't think there are any Pokemon in Brawl that Sakurai is going to go into Smash 4 with the intention of cutting, and that if any of Brawl's playable Pokemon (plus Mewtwo) don't get in, it will be due to time constraints than anything else.

Hopefully, Sakurai won't have that problem this time due to having a much bigger team and much longer development time.

However, if the the first posterboy for 6th-generation is a Pokemon that could not translate well to a playable fighter or is another Pokemon that is yet another Lucario/Zoroark, I could very well see them just keeping all of Brawl's playable Pokemon, adding back in Mewtwo, and then calling it a day.

If you're assuming gamefreak will have shown Sakurai and the development team their new Pokemon for the new movie (which I agree is pretty likely), then if that Pokemon isn't suitable, why would you assume they wouldn't just show them one to put in that is?

The Pokemon group would have a fair idea of what Pokemon they are going to push in terms of marketing, in the anime, etc and would be able to show the most relevant one, particularly if the Smash Team has roughly worked out when the game is releasing - hell, if Smash releases long enough after X/Y (and it surely will), maybe Smash could have an event Pokemon that releases right around the same time. Why not? The options are pretty limitless. I'm confident there will be some sort of Gen 6 rep in Smash, they won't stick with 4(6)gen ones and a random gen 4.

 

[Black-Wind]

But what can you do? Without info there can only be speculation and predictions. And the more logical choices can be based on past decisions. It has become stagnant we all know that. After the first trailer character we'll see if it stays the same. I doubt it because thats how it works. And I think it's ok to only expect some characters too. i'm expecting Chrom but I want Lyn. We're going to get FE Awakening here eventually so maybe by actually getting a chance to play it more people will want him in. And for the Japan thing, it would be selfish to thnik we're the only ones that matter so Japan's input is very important. They're the ones making it lol. What I'm basically saying is that looking it from every angle is perfectly fine, even if some views are more predominant.

What can people do?

Realize that they don't have all the answers and be content with just discussing what they would like if they really feel the need to keep discussing a game with so lil information so far from release?

And even if you do expect certain characters, there's no reason to treat them as "shoe-ins". As for Japan Sakurai has said it before that Smash is bigger than being something just for Japan so there's no reason to think that what they want and like makes w/e less likely compared to what the rest of the world likes. For example, I saw someone use "But Japan doesn't like Lil Mac/ P-O!!" and a reason why that happening is "less likely". That would make prefect sense if the game was made purely for Japan and we're all expected to mod our consoles and import it. IT's less "don't care about Japan" and more " don't think that Japan is the be-all-end-all and don't take "News from Japanese Forums!" as anything more than what it is".

And ontop of that there's chunks of "information" that gets over looked because it doesn't line up with what people have listed as "what to expect". Like Namco's possible rep ... people just expect Pacman and will jump on you if you suggest something different. But what has Namco said? Their big heads have freely expressed interest in putting everything from Tekken to SC to Gundam to Tales characters in Smash 4 but never Pacman. Why? Cause those are series they love, work on and make them money. People "expect" MM from Capcom ... but we learned from Brawl that both sides were expecting the other party to approach them. Now the only guy at Capcom that we know gave a damn about it is gone and MM is now their red headed step-child.

And look at Snake, that shows that 3rd party picks are far more "personal" than people seem to care to notice. That makes me think that it's far more "likely" that Sakurai's gonna pick one of his bro's characters over some sterile safe bet. I also think he's gonna want to actually shock people with some characters so I personally see Travis or Bayo as characters to look for. Or even a Tales Of character seeing as Sakurai personally asked for the Tales Director and said Director apparently would love to have a tales character in the cast.

I vaguely remember this but I know you did make a PKMN prediction along those lines so good stuff. What else you got?

Ehh, Pokemon's my main gaming subject and though I can write another essay about Pichu's importance to the series (to counter this notion that he's not the 2nd gen rep) or how I feel Lucario will go down his road for Smash 4 I don't think people want that debate again so I'm just gonna leave.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Man I wonder how the tears would be delicious if Roy and Mewtwo didn't return.

 

[GamerSoul]

What can people do?

Realize that they don't have all the answers and be content with just discussing what they would like if they really feel the need to keep discussing a game with so lil information so far from release?

From what I've seen here the majority of discussion is still that but we've discussed almost everything that is worth discussing with the occasional new topic. Imo, we have just become content with what we believe Sakurai may or may not do because of the lack of the info. In time, the crazy speculation will be back.

And even if you do expect certain characters, there's no reason to treat them as "shoe-ins". As for Japan Sakurai has said it before that Smash is bigger than being something just for Japan so there's no reason to think that what they want and like makes w/e less likely compared to what the rest of the world likes. For example, I saw someone use "But Japan doesn't like Lil Mac/ P-O!!" and a reason why that happening is "less likely". That would make prefect sense if the game was made purely for Japan and we're all expected to mod our consoles and import it. IT's less "don't care about Japan" and more " don't think that Japan is the be-all-end-all and don't take "News from Japanese Forums!" as anything more than what it is".

I can't say any character is a shoe-in, but I can say a character like Palutena and Chrom are more likely than Captain Syrup. I think there's just a higher level of confidence for some characters over others that's all. People are just having fun with it. Sakurai can say that smash is world-wide but unless he can really show it better in this game then I dont buy it. Maybe if we get Ridley I'll change my opinion on the matter. I also like knowing what the japanese fans are thinking because it puts things more in perspective about who we are collectively expecting to appear in the game. I don't consider their word absolute but it's interesting nonetheless what their saying compared to us.

And ontop of that there's chunks of "information" that gets over looked because it doesn't line up with what people have listed as "what to expect". Like Namco's possible rep ... people just expect Pacman and will jump on you if you suggest something different. But what has Namco said? Their big heads have freely expressed interest in putting everything from Tekken to SC to Gundam to Tales characters in Smash 4 but never Pacman. Why? Cause those are series they love, work on and make them money. People "expect" MM from Capcom ... but we learned from Brawl that both sides were expecting the other party to approach them. Now the only guy at Capcom that we know gave a damn about it is gone and MM is now their red headed step-child.

And look at Snake, that shows that 3rd party picks are far more "personal" than people seem to care to notice. That makes me think that it's far more "likely" that Sakurai's gonna pick one of his bro's characters over some sterile safe bet. I also think he's gonna want to actually shock people with some characters so I personally see Travis or Bayo as characters to look for. Or even a Tales Of character seeing as Sakurai personally asked for the Tales Director and said Director apparently would love to have a tales character in the cast.

It's makes for better meltdowns when those types of characters get revealed. If people don't see it happening then the better the suprise will be. lol. Seriously, it doesn't matter if they'll jump on you. People should speculate the way they want to. I might not agree with u but, ehh it makes room for better discussion.

And Sakurai's personal taste is one reason why I don't feel like there's a chance for as much characaters as there should be. With a single man making the hard decisions I can see him putting his choices over some other potential candidates. I can see a Tales character since those games relate so much to Smash but Travis is old news so I'd put Bayo over him.

Ehh, Pokemon's my main gaming subject and though I can write another essay about Pichu's importance to the series (to counter this notion that he's not the 2nd gen rep) or how I feel Lucario will go down his road for Smash 4 I don't think people want that debate again so I'm just gonna leave.

And I could make a very logical post of why Syrup will be in the game >.>. I think Pichu might be out for good, but good day to you sir!

Man I wonder how the tears would be delicious if Roy and Mewtwo didn't return.

I'm sure it would be just as bad if Ridley wasn't in.

 

[Snakey]

Man I wonder how the tears would be delicious if Roy and Mewtwo didn't return.

I have no idea why people even want cuts to begin with.

On a sidenote, how feasible is adding a completely new character onto the roster via DLC with no files in game?

I know for most fighters with DLC characters, the characters are most of the time on disc.

I doubt the 3DS has enough space to handle a DLC character that has no files embedded into the retail copy.

Also, you have the problem of dealing with what happens when players confront other players who have not downloaded that character.

 

[Green Mamba]

Most games with DLC deal with that via mandatory patching--everyone receives the data for the characters so they can play against them but only those who bought them can use that data.

And adding a character in with no previous files is no big deal--the original version of the new Mortal Kombat had an unfinished version of Skarlet embedded in its files, the first DLC character, but there was absolutely nothing in the data for Kenshi, Rain, and Freddy, the other DLC characters.

None of this should be outside of Nintendo's ability.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

How long has a Smash community thread been around? Just wondering if some of those infamous fake roster pics originated from here lol

APEX 2013 is going on this weekend and there's going to be tons of Smash being played, from 64 to Brawl with live streams. I'll see if I can get some links in here since I'm going for the Smash (mainly 64) scene.

 

[GamerSoul]

The patching idea sounds about right. I remember in Super Street Fight 4 there was an update that showed charcters like Evil Ryu, iirc, that you see on the roster but couldnt play as. If Sakurai wants to implement it he can. Would be nice to have character trailers months after the game is released.

 

[Snakey]

If DLC characters do happen for Smash 4, the only characters I could see happening were any characters that were in previous Smash Bros. games that did not return for Smash 4. Why would Sakurai waste the few scant noteworthy remaining newcomers left after completing Smash 4 as DLC?

Personally, I would buy Dr. Mario and Pichu if they were offered as DLC.