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NFL 2013 Preseason/Training Camp thread - Doritos Locos

M

Major_Lazer

Member
squicken said:
Both Grantland and the NFL.com guys have SEA as the winner for the NFCW. SEA seems to be the consensus NFC favorite. "Deepest team", "No holes on roster". I think people forget that SEA is a different team on the road. Seems like that bad loss by SF is also overly discussed. Really tough game after getting beat up and drained vs NE in a game they didn't need
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So who would u put as the NFCW favourite?
 
S

Squall ASF

Member
FrenchMovieTheme said:
you can take away the read option in the same way that you can take away a playaction pass. i find it funny when people say "is the pistol just a fad?" yes, if you consider the shotgun a fad, or any other formation a fad. no team in the NFL runs the pistol as their base formation or as the only formation.

it helps people to sleep better at night to justify the new era QB's success by saying "well its just a fad, defenses will catch up". but guys like wussle, kap, rgIII, etc. are all good passers. come on, you don't get to the playoffs and put up really good numbers in the NFL over a season and in the playoffs without having some skill beyond running. maybe a week or two you could fool a defense, but not a significant portion of the season
Click to expand...

Yep, I say it to make myself feel better :( It's alright, either the line steps up without Coop and we surprise teams or I will be chiming "Ready for Teddy" after each loss. Win win baby!
 
S

squicken

Member
FrenchMovieTheme said:
you can take away the read option in the same way that you can take away a playaction pass. i find it funny when people say "is the pistol just a fad?" yes, if you consider the shotgun a fad, or any other formation a fad. no team in the NFL runs the pistol as their base formation or as the only formation.

it helps people to sleep better at night to justify the new era QB's success by saying "well its just a fad, defenses will catch up". but guys like wussle, kap, rgIII, etc. are all good passers. come on, you don't get to the playoffs and put up really good numbers in the NFL over a season and in the playoffs without having some skill beyond running. maybe a week or two you could fool a defense, but not a significant portion of the season
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There's a tendency to knock those guys b/c they are reliant on good run games, or play action. But I guess the reality is just production, however it is achieved. I'm still a bit of a skeptic. I think defensive coordinators will be better at slowing it down this year

Major_Lazer said:
So who would u put as the NFCW favourite?
Click to expand...

I think Jim Harbaugh is easily the best coach in football since Belichick got exposed as a cheater. SF gets my vote until the talent declines
 
S

Squall ASF

Member
squicken said:
There's a tendency to knock those guys b/c they are reliant on good run games, or play action. But I guess the reality is just production, however it is achieved. I'm still a bit of a skeptic. I think defensive coordinators will be better at slowing it down this year
Click to expand...

I could see slowing Kap down without his go-to WR and because he relies so much on zip like someone else pointed out earlier in this thread, but Russel admittedly has had shit for receivers and still gets down the field. I think it was EZ that brought up the point of playing against his height limitation and quickly obscuring his view down the field. It will certainly be interesting to see how defenses address them now that they have tape. I'd be especially curious to see how we address it if Horton was still here, not sure if Bowles will have the chops, we'll see.
 
S

squicken

Member
Squall ASF said:
I could see slowing Kap down without his go-to WR and because he relies so much on zip like someone else pointed out earlier in this thread, but Russel admittedly has had shit for receivers and still gets down the field. I think it was EZ that brought up the point of playing against his height limitation and quickly obscuring his view down the field. It will certainly be interesting to see how defenses address them now that they have tape. I'd be especially curious to see how we address it if Horton was still here, not sure if Bowles will have the chops, we'll see.
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I was surprised at how much Russ had to scramble in the preseason. He's so good at it, but I don't think it is something that can produce consistent production. I've mentioned this before, but there was play where Kap had to dodge pressure in the pocket, stop, then went all the way across the field with his progressions, and hit the open man. The only other guy who could do what he did is Rodgers.

If a guy can stay calm in the face of pressure, and see the whole field, then he's legit.
 
E

Elfforkusu

Member
squicken said:
I was surprised at how much Russ had to scramble in the preseason. He's so good at it, but I don't think it is something that can produce consistent production. I've mentioned this before, but there was play where Kap had to dodge pressure in the pocket, stop, then went all the way across the field with his progressions, and hit the open man. The only other guy who could do what he did is Rodgers.

If a guy can stay calm in the face of pressure, and see the whole field, then he's legit.
Click to expand...
I'm sold on Wilson. I'm not sold on Kap. He's just too much of an unknown at this point. Calling him legit based on a handful of throws in a handful of games does not strike me as wise.
 
S

squicken

Member
Elfforkusu said:
I'm sold on Wilson. I'm not sold on Kap. He's just too much of an unknown at this point. Calling him legit based on a handful of throws in a handful of games does not strike me as wise.
Click to expand...

No fun arguing about a game if you have to wait for the final score. And I think Wilson is also very good. I think what he has against him is that he doesn't have Harbaugh, and he does seem to struggle to see the field at times
 
F

FrenchMovieTheme

Member
Elfforkusu said:
I'm sold on Wilson. I'm not sold on Kap. He's just too much of an unknown at this point. Calling him legit based on a handful of throws in a handful of games does not strike me as wise.
Click to expand...

so wilson is legit based on 18 games, kap is NOT legit because he has only started 10 games.

i feel like you and all the talking heads on espn/nfln haven't actually watched kap play at all. i'm sure you saw him destroy your defense in the playoffs with the read option, but that is really the first time all year we ran it significantly and the only reason we did it is because your defense was so awful why not?

and i'm not sure where you are getting "a handful of throws in a handful of games". dude did it from the first game he started to the last. he had the best completion % in the league on throws 25+ yards (yes, even better than the great erron), he had a good completion %, a good QB rating, kept his turnovers down, turned crabtree into a star and did all this while getting 2nd string reps for half the season.

but that's fine. i guess it's just going to always be one of those things with him. "well yeah i mean he's putting up good numbers and getting wins but i just don't know. but russell wilson! oh man! i don't know what "it" is, but he has "IT"! for sure!"
 
C

Coldnoodle

Member
Just watched Predator and Predators back to back.

Best characters: Asian guy from Predators and Jesse the Body Ventura from Predator.

Both movies were alright, slightly prefer Predator.
 
E

Elfforkusu

Member
squicken said:
No fun arguing about a game if you have to wait for the final score. And I think Wilson is also very good. I think what he has against him is that he doesn't have Harbaugh, and he does seem to struggle to see the field at times
Click to expand...
Harbaugh will play to Kap's strengths, like any good coach would. That won't help if Kap is limited in his throws and progressions... I don't think either of them are good enough to carry their team yet (luckily neither has to), but Wilson is closer.

What Wilson has going against him is:
1) Pete Carroll is a clown
2) a swiss cheese offensive line
3) midget

So he might have some issues this year. Nothing he can't work through, though.
Well, ok, the height thing probably isn't going away

FrenchMovieTheme said:
so wilson is legit based on 18 games, kap is NOT legit because he has only started 10 games.

i feel like you and all the talking heads on espn/nfln haven't actually watched kap play at all. i'm sure you saw him destroy your defense in the playoffs with the read option, but that is really the first time all year we ran it significantly and the only reason we did it is because your defense was so awful why not?

and i'm not sure where you are getting "a handful of throws in a handful of games". dude did it from the first game he started to the last. he had the best completion % in the league on throws 25+ yards (yes, even better than the great erron), he had a good completion %, a good QB rating, kept his turnovers down, turned crabtree into a star and did all this while getting 2nd string reps for half the season.

but that's fine. i guess it's just going to always be one of those things with him. "well yeah i mean he's putting up good numbers and getting wins but i just don't know. but russell wilson! oh man! i don't know what "it" is, but he has "IT"! for sure!"
Click to expand...
Don't get me wrong, Kap has a ton of potential as a legit QB. But last year he reminded me a bit of 2010 Vick. Great player, but what if you get him out of his comfort zone? Well, defenses need some time to figure out where a guy's comfort zone is, first.
 
B

BakedPigeon

Banned
Having Tavaris Jackson as a backup is brilliant. If Wilson was to get injured, they have a QB who can run the same offense. Seattle has the whole offensive side of the ball covered IMO.
 
F

FrenchMovieTheme

Member
Elfforkusu said:
Harbaugh will play to Kap's strengths, like any good coach would. That won't help if Kap is limited in his throws and progressions... I don't think either of them are good enough to carry their team yet (luckily neither has to), but Wilson is closer.

What Wilson has going against him is:
1) Pete Carroll is a clown
2) a swiss cheese offensive line
3) midget

So he might have some issues this year. Nothing he can't work through, though.
Well, ok, the height thing probably isn't going away
Click to expand...

seriously, what are you talking about? very curious to hear this
 
F

FrenchMovieTheme

Member
Wallace, who starred at Iowa State in 2001 and 2002, had hoped that he could catch on with the 49ers. But he said Friday he felt the team never had any intention of giving him a real chance. He said the thought reason he was brought in was to help encourage contract talks with 49ers quarterback Colt McCoy.

"I've been around this game long enough where I can see what's going on," Wallace said, "and I realized right away the reason they brought me here was to get Colt to take a pay cut."

According to reports, McCoy's salary was reduced earlier this week.After meeting with Harbaugh, Wallace said he didn't think he could make the team. "San Francisco wasn't the best place for me," Wallace said. "I have no hard feelings toward San Francisco. It's just the nature of the business." Harbaugh's quotes came as a surprise to Wallace, who said he had limited interaction with the 49ers coach. "For him to come out and say that, 'Hey, Seneca's planning on his retirement' ... I don't think that's even 100 percent fair for him to come out and say that because I don't even know him," Wallace said. "I think that should be my decision."
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on one hand i want to tell seneca to eat a bag of dicks (which i already told him to do). on the other hand, i do feel bad for him. but on the 3rd hand, is it so wrong to bring in some potential competition to light a fire under someones ass? pay cut or no pay cut, colt has played a lot better in the past 2 games. not great, but he looked like a backup should look.

i love you harbs!
 
E

Elfforkusu

Member
FrenchMovieTheme said:
seriously, what are you talking about? very curious to hear this
Click to expand...
Is it controversial to claim that a young QB might not have completely mastered the art of NFL quarterbacking?

From what I saw last year, Kap was rarely tested in this regard. He had the deck loaded in his favor:
1) great running game
2) great ability as a scrambler

But when a guy's not on much film, it's hard to scheme against him. What happens when teams start doing that? He basically kept the Packers in the game in the first half of that playoff game with poor reads (which was impressive, since Capers had no intention of the game ever being close!)
 
T

TheLegendary

Member
Elfforkusu said:
I'm sold on Wilson. I'm not sold on Kap. He's just too much of an unknown at this point. Calling him legit based on a handful of throws in a handful of games does not strike me as wise.
Click to expand...

Funny, I feel the opposite. Butthe situation Kaep is in certainly can't be ignored. I really think the fact that Wilson is a midget is going to be an issue in year two if teams can make him make plays from the pocket.
 
E

Elfforkusu

Member
TheLegendary said:
Funny, I feel the opposite. Butthe situation Kaep is in certainly can't be ignored. I really think the fact that Wilson is a midget is going to be an issue in year two if teams can make him make plays from the pocket.
Click to expand...
Counterpoint: the exact same height argument was used ad infinitum against Drew Brees, but now all we can hate on is how big of a douche he is.

Harbaugh definitely >>>>>> Cheatin' Pete though (except maybe if drug running is factored in), no doubt about that!
 
F

FrenchMovieTheme

Member
Elfforkusu said:
Is it controversial to claim that a young QB might not have completely mastered the art of NFL quarterbacking?

From what I saw last year, Kap was rarely tested in this regard. He had the deck loaded in his favor:
1) great running game
2) great ability as a scrambler

But when a guy's not on much film, it's hard to scheme against him. What happens when teams start doing that? He basically kept the Packers in the game in the first half of that playoff game with poor reads (which was impressive, since Capers had no intention of the game ever being close!)
Click to expand...

no i don't think he should be annointed elite at this point. great running game and great ability as a scrambler.... alright. he torched the packers from INSIDE the pocket as well. just like he did in the NFC title game. he had 1 rush in the NFC title game. how did we magically win!?

if you want to take a look at a QB who is a great athlete but has no progression or throwing ability, then take a look at the packers vs. the vikings the week before the niners game. remember how the packers were "thanking" the vikings for getting them ready for kap? not so easy when a guy can actually pass the ball, which is exactly what kap did to you. he had 1 bad throw in the first half. should i then say erron is dog shit? he arguably cost the packers a chance at being closer in that game. poor throw for a pick, missed some open receivers. ZOMG HIS PROGRESSIONS SUCK HE IS MAKING THE WRONG READS!

as for teams getting tape on a QB, that's fine. that is a valid point. but on kaps behalf can't you also say that he has the potential to improve as he gains more experience? guy got his team to the superbowl after playing in 9 games. use any excuse you want for his success but that is impressive
 
E

Elfforkusu

Member
FrenchMovieTheme said:
no i don't think he should be annointed elite at this point. great running game and great ability as a scrambler.... alright. he torched the packers from INSIDE the pocket as well. just like he did in the NFC title game. he had 1 rush in the NFC title game. how did we magically win!?

if you want to take a look at a QB who is a great athlete but has no progression or throwing ability, then take a look at the packers vs. the vikings the week before the niners game. remember how the packers were "thanking" the vikings for getting them ready for kap? not so easy when a guy can actually pass the ball, which is exactly what kap did to you. he had 1 bad throw in the first half. should i then say erron is dog shit? he arguably cost the packers a chance at being closer in that game. poor throw for a pick, missed some open receivers. ZOMG HIS PROGRESSIONS SUCK HE IS MAKING THE WRONG READS!

as for teams getting tape on a QB, that's fine. that is a valid point. but on kaps behalf can't you also say that he has the potential to improve as he gains more experience? guy got his team to the superbowl after playing in 9 games. use any excuse you want for his success but that is impressive
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1) offensive balance! This is Kap's best bet this year too, and why the Niners will win the division.

2) Of course, he could turn into a legitimately great QB in every sense. But young QBs always seem to have some initial success, then go through a period of massive suckage as their weaknesses are exposed. The good ones overcome those weaknesses while the others become Mark Sanchez and Matt Cassell. But the sucking is not an optional step!
 
F

FrenchMovieTheme

Member
Elfforkusu said:
1) offensive balance! This is Kap's best bet this year too, and why the Niners will win the division.

2) Of course, he could turn into a legitimately great QB in every sense. But young QBs always seem to have some initial success, then go through a period of massive suckage as their weaknesses are exposed. The good ones overcome those weaknesses while the others become Mark Sanchez and Matt Cassell. But the sucking is not an optional step!
Click to expand...

very few teams in the history of the league have won consistently without balance. it is the reason why the lions under schwartz will always be mediocre. but kap is part of that balance. there was much more running room when kap was inserted into the lineup. why? it's not because kap can run. it's because he has a really strong arm that is reasonable accurate. if teams didn't fear his passing they would just be able to stack 8 in the box and never have to worry (take a look at what teams did against alex smith for an example).

maybe kap and wussle and rgIII and whoever have weaknesses, maybe some of them don't. it's fair to say the jury is still out on the long term of these players but it's also fair to say they have all done great things so far. if kap shits the bed this year then so be it.... at least we dont have to pay him $20 mil a year and he can go sign with the dolphins

p.s.

lulz predator 2. trash
 
F

FrenchMovieTheme

Member
firen said:
When do you get to remove that disgusting avatar?

Also Romo or Kaep this weekend on PPR fantasy?
Click to expand...

thursday! i am so pumped!

his glorious return is at hand...

hjarbaugh.gif
 
S

Squall ASF

Member
I tried my local store and they didn't have it...damn. For that price, buy one for every bedroom. Didn't like it only having 2 HDMI ports but ridiculous deal.
 
H

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
Elfforkusu said:
2) Of course, he could turn into a legitimately great QB in every sense. But young QBs always seem to have some initial success, then go through a period of massive suckage as their weaknesses are exposed. The good ones overcome those weaknesses while the others become Mark Sanchez and Matt Cassell. But the sucking is not an optional step!
Click to expand...
When you look at rookie QBs who have won as much as those concerned here, you actually don't see a slump unless the team's running game also takes a dive. Looking at Matt Ryan here.

Bionic is going to chime in here at some point.
 
R

Rorschach

Member
Man, football has changed. Used to be that you'd sit your QB because they all sucked ass the first 3 years. Now, they have a 1 year shelf life?
 
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