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NFL 2013 Week 2 |OT| - Manning Bowl III

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squicken

Member
http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/86641/nfl-week-2-quarterback-report

ESPN QB report


It was pretty plain to see even last season that the Colts were going to regress. They have no talent on defense and Luck had the flukiest rookie season ever. Something like 8 games won by a touchdown or less.

Some QBs consistently win close games, just as some teams consistently lose close games. Luck has so far feasted on bad teams in close games, something Peyton did in the AFCS. That Brady does with the AFCE. I'm sure Ben has a good record in close games vs bad Bengals and Browns teams

As far as regression, I was obviously expecting some. But the defense was bad last year. They were the unit that played to its level. They should be getting better having turned over the roster and spending all the FA money. They also have their defensive mastermind HC back. It hasn't gotten better.
 
Listening to Vick's post game press conference he said on the play he came out and Foles went in that he was fine, he got up after the play and the ref told him he had to come out of the game for 1 play since they were worried he was hurt. He said he told the ref he was fine but he made him come out. Seems odd that a ref can make a player come out of a game in a situation like that. I could see if he was laying on the field looking hurt or something but not when he stands up under his own power and says he is fine.
 
Listening to Vick's post game press conference he said on the play he came out and Foles went in that he was fine, he got up after the play and the ref told him he had to come out of the game for 1 play since they were worried he was hurt. He said he told the ref he was fine but he made him come out. Seems odd that a ref can make a player come out of a game in a situation like that. I could see if he was laying on the field looking hurt or something but not when he stands up under his own power and says he is fine.
Probably has a lot to do with Vick's history.
 

brentech

Member
A few gif's before I make a run into town

Lacy speared in the jaw:
iXBlHbjxqd8rD.gif

http://i.minus.com/iXBlHbjxqd8rD.gif

Revenge of the Starks:
iYnTpDVc1fXdl.gif

http://i.minus.com/iYnTpDVc1fXdl.gif



Meriweather can eat a bag a dicks.
 

eznark

Banned
Rodgers took three early sacks when the game was still competitive, accounting for the QBR dip

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Probably has a lot to do with Vick's history.
Actually I think the mechanics of the refs making a player sit a play are part of the leagues attempts to combat defenses from feigning injury to slow down The World's Greatest Offense in Offense History of the World. Foisted on their own Chiptard.
 
Actually I think the mechanics of the refs making a player sit a play are part of the leagues attempts to combat defenses from feigning injury to slow down The World's Greatest Offense in Offense History of the World. Foisted on their own Chiptard.

It doesnt make any sense to make a player on offense sit out a play to stop people from faking injuries. Then again I guess your irrational hatred of Chip doesnt have to make sense.
 

Hunter S.

Member
I will not respect the Chiefs as major competition for the Broncos unless they win their next 2 games. Easy to jump the Gun so early. How many regular season games has Peyton led the Broncos to victory in a row? Queffs can kiss my ass almost as much as the Raiders.
 
I'd like to see them beat the Pats first. Now is the time to beat them, before they sort all their problems out like they do every year and start beating the shit outta teams.
Yep. The AFC East is the Pats' division, and it'll stay that way in my mind until it is mathematically impossible for them to win it.

Unfortunately the Dolphins don't play them until week 8.
 

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
I dunno man. At the very least, Seattle owns the 49ers under Kaepernick. He's 0-2 against them.
Thankfully this isn't soccer with aggregate scoring either.
While head-to-head games are fantastic, we're still both trying to win the same division. The 49ers right now have issues with an aging roster(it remains to be seen how good they are in rebuilding it under Harbaugh), and they are having to lean much more on whatever depth they have with injuries, but I wouldn't ever count them out entirely.

We put them on the mat last night, but the fight isn't over. They're better than that.
 

eznark

Banned
It doesnt make any sense to make a player on offense sit out a play to stop people from faking injuries. Then again I guess your irrational hatred of Chip doesnt have to make sense.

Yeah but they don't make those rules in isolation. The league gave officials more leeway to determine when a player was "injured" after a whistle. Partly due to concussion concerns and partly due to The Worlds Greatest Offensive Mind in the History of the World.

Speaking of, when you know your defense sucks balls, does it really make sense to run the World's Greatest Offense?

Time of Posession:
Eagles - 19 minutes and change
Chargers - 40 minutes and change

Maybe tone it down and run like, the Worlds Fourth Greatest Offense so that your defense can breathe for a minute or two.
 
http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/86641/nfl-week-2-quarterback-report

ESPN QB report




Some QBs consistently win close games, just as some teams consistently lose close games. Luck has so far feasted on bad teams in close games, something Peyton did in the AFCS. That Brady does with the AFCE. I'm sure Ben has a good record in close games vs bad Bengals and Browns teams

As far as regression, I was obviously expecting some. But the defense was bad last year. They were the unit that played to its level. They should be getting better having turned over the roster and spending all the FA money. They also have their defensive mastermind HC back. It hasn't gotten better.

While head-to-head games are fantastic, we're still both trying to win the same division. The 49ers right now have issues with an aging roster(it remains to be seen how good they are in rebuilding it under Harbaugh), and they are having to lean much more on whatever depth they have with injuries, but I wouldn't ever count them out entirely.

We put them on the mat last night, but the fight isn't over. They're better than that.

This is pertinent to both these posts -

Average Age of all 32 NFL teams. Colts and Niners are older than the "old and slow" Steelers:

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/...oungest-Lions-are-the-oldest-Eagles-10th.html
 
http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/86641/nfl-week-2-quarterback-report

Thank you freeman for doing the lords work on the football field. Its not yet your time to spread your wings of dominance for the bucs but next week shall be the time.
Andrew Luck
Passer rating: 79.7
QBR: 51.5
Briefly: Luck had a decent day on his feet, converting two third downs on scrambles. Once again, though, he didn't have much success downfield. He completed only 9 of 24 passes with an interception on balls that traveled more than 5 yards downfield.
Ryan Tannehill
Passer rating: 107.4
QBR: 44.4
Briefly: The Miami Dolphins' big road victory against the Indianapolis Colts featured a strong downfield passing performance. Tannehill completed 8 of 9 passes that traveled more than 10 yards downfield for 209 yards, including all three he targeted receiver Mike Wallace with. But he also took five sacks, including three on third down.
Interesting.
 
Yeah but they don't make those rules in isolation. The league gave officials more leeway to determine when a player was "injured" after a whistle. Partly due to concussion concerns and partly due to The Worlds Greatest Offensive Mind in the History of the World.

Speaking of, when you know your defense sucks balls, does it really make sense to run the World's Greatest Offense?

Time of Posession:
Eagles - 19 minutes and change
Chargers - 40 minutes and change

Maybe tone it down and run like, the Worlds Fourth Greatest Offense so that your defense can breathe for a minute or two.

I totally agree that the fast pace worked great when used in the right spot but this idea that you just have to play fast irregardless of the situation is just stupid. Eagles had a first and 10 for like the 15 yard line with 2:30 left, no reason at all to rush and run 2 more plays there. Him and Marron in Buffalo have both botched the end of games by going fast break all game and not playing situational football. Hopefully Chip can learn from this. a lot of coaches are incredibly stubborn and will stick to what they do no matter what, hopefully he wont be one of those guys.
 

eznark

Banned
So looking slightly more closely at QBR and I think I'm actually seeing some value in it as a tool, not for evaluating not QB's (because the stat is fuck-aids good for that) but for evaluating offensive line play. Its largest factors seem to be deep completions (and attempts), sacks, and completion percentage. The first two are very clearly almost entirely dependent on the offensive line. The ability there manifests directly (as sacks) and indirectly (as game planning and play calling will be dictated by how much time you think your QB will have). The last component, completion percentage, is essentially a function of comfort at release. Most NFL QB's can throw in 7-7 drills without much difficulty, the problem comes in accurately throwing a football under duress.

Hypothesis:
QBR, in its attempt to isolate QB performance, has failed miserably. However, when it comes to giving us a stat that we can use to compare offensive line units, it does a damn fine job.
 
So looking slightly more closely at QBR and I think I'm actually seeing some value in it as a tool, not for evaluating not QB's (because the stat is fuck-aids good for that) but for evaluating offensive line play. Its largest factors seem to be deep completions (and attempts), sacks, and completion percentage. The first two are very clearly almost entirely dependent on the offensive line. The ability there manifests directly (as sacks) and indirectly (as game planning and play calling will be dictated by how much time you think your QB will have). The last component, completion percentage, is essentially a function of comfort at release. Most NFL QB's can throw in 7-7 drills without much difficulty, the problem comes in accurately throwing a football under duress.

Hypothesis:
QBR, in its attempt to isolate QB performance, has failed miserably. However, when it comes to giving us a stat that we can use to compare offensive line units, it does a damn fine job.
Nailed it.
 
I missed most of the game yesterday due to one of those epic Ikea - BBB Sunday trips.

I caught the last quarter, and I was impressed by the corner play on the outside with Asante out. I concur that McClain seemed to be picked on. Sort of unhappy about that considering how spectacular he was last year.

The red zone sequence at the end, though. I know we're playing rookies so it's tough, but The corner to the right of Pettis was guarding air. The safety (I'm guessing Moore) had the back line with what looked like their tight end. This is stuff that you learn with experience, so hopefully that gets cleaned up over the season.

Don't want to see us get one dimensional, as much as you and I (and dorsey) bitch about the offense getting complacent.

I love Snelling, man. I hope he stays with his whole career. Not a guy that pops on the stat sheet, but he saves our ass twice a season.

I want to say it was McClain, again, that got out of position on that play. I think he got caught up in a rub by the receiver coming across.
 
So looking slightly more closely at QBR and I think I'm actually seeing some value in it as a tool, not for evaluating not QB's (because the stat is fuck-aids good for that) but for evaluating offensive line play. Its largest factors seem to be deep completions (and attempts), sacks, and completion percentage. The first two are very clearly almost entirely dependent on the offensive line. The ability there manifests directly (as sacks) and indirectly (as game planning and play calling will be dictated by how much time you think your QB will have). The last component, completion percentage, is essentially a function of comfort at release. Most NFL QB's can throw in 7-7 drills without much difficulty, the problem comes in accurately throwing a football under duress.

Hypothesis:
QBR, in its attempt to isolate QB performance, has failed miserably. However, when it comes to giving us a stat that we can use to compare offensive line units, it does a damn fine job.

What about QB's like Alex Smith. He could have the worlds best OL and not throw more then 10 yards downfield. The way QBR is set up guys like him with just average arms are going to score lower.
 

Fantomex

Member
My unnecessarily long summary from this morning:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=82110973&postcount=11389

Tannehill looked sharp. I have to admit, I'm really surprised with how dedicated Philbin and Sherman are to making him a traditional pocket passer. Two weeks in a row and I still don't think I've seen a single bootleg or rollout. Don't get me wrong, he's doing very well as that type of passer, but with the questionable o-line and his ability to throw on the run you'd think they'd move him around a little more.

Good write up Brother! I will add that the Phins do have many weaknesses. People can score on us in bunches. Our defense starts off very vanilla every single game. It's gonna be easy for a team like Atlanta or New Orleans to build up leads in the first two quarters. And our offense is in no way built to score all of a sudden, it can, but It's not made that way. I do think there are some positives in this last game though.

The defense was able to adjust perfectly in the second half only allowing a field goal.
Tannehill didn't have any turnovers. (that call was stupid)
Sherman actually realized that the zone blocking scheme sucks, and changed it.
Sherman ran sweeps and outside runs for once.
Miller actually chose better cutback holes.
Dion Jordan exists.

Things I didn't like.
Dion Jordan only plays the second half of games it seems. He is only put in on third down. So basically we drafted Ted Ginn 2.0. A player that only plays %20 percent of snaps. If he is hurt, why play him? If he is not hurt, why aren't you playing him in the first half? What are they waiting until the other team is tired to put him in?

Our pass rush sucked in the first half. Kevin Coyle was probably too worried about Lucks legs, but he burned us anyways. Might as well play aggressively and use a LB to spy.

Tannehill still would rather take the sack than run for it. He needs to learn to roll out of pocket after his progressions are done, this is how Big Ben usually sets up big plays.

I woke up the baby when we sacked luck on fourth down. I felt bad :(
 

Kave_Man

come in my shame circle
So seriously who knew not having Lauvao would ruin our O-line this bad? Weeden was only sacked about 30 times last he's been sacked 11 after 2 games.

Some of that still falls on him though but it's like someone said he doesn't seem to adjust for when more pressure comes at him. I don't know if it's again him not being allowed to make changes or if he genuinely can't see it. I'm actually thinking back and I don't really remember him calling any audibles at all or making any adjustments at the line.

But in happier news, love what I saw from KeKe Mingo yesterday. Kid only played about a third of all the snaps but he was a force.
 

squicken

Member
So looking slightly more closely at QBR and I think I'm actually seeing some value in it as a tool, not for evaluating not QB's (because the stat is fuck-aids good for that) but for evaluating offensive line play. Its largest factors seem to be deep completions (and attempts), sacks, and completion percentage. The first two are very clearly almost entirely dependent on the offensive line. The ability there manifests directly (as sacks) and indirectly (as game planning and play calling will be dictated by how much time you think your QB will have). The last component, completion percentage, is essentially a function of comfort at release. Most NFL QB's can throw in 7-7 drills without much difficulty, the problem comes in accurately throwing a football under duress.

Hypothesis:
QBR, in its attempt to isolate QB performance, has failed miserably. However, when it comes to giving us a stat that we can use to compare offensive line units, it does a damn fine job.

I think it has its uses, but it has serious flaws. Alex Smith had a high QBR all year yet was replaced. It's really trying to do a lot of what ANS and Football Outsiders do with success rate and expected points. The best description I have heard about any football stat is that "baseball stats end the conversation, football stats start them"
 

eznark

Banned
He was sacked 24 times in less then 10 games last year and only averaged 10 yards a completion.

http://www.nfl.com/player/alexsmith/2506340/careerstats

Yeah but he completed 26 passes of greater than 20 yards, which is a huge weight. His completion % was 70%, another huge weight. You also have to look at when the sacks occurred. If the game is no longer "competitive" then they essentially never happened. I believe they tinkered with it, but at one point you only got hugely dinged for the third sack, at which point all three sacks were bad. If you only got sacked twice, then it was almost like those sacks never happened.

It's a truly abysmal stat.
 
Yeah but he completed 26 passes of greater than 20 yards, which is a huge weight. His completion % was 70%, another huge weight. You also have to look at when the sacks occurred. If the game is no longer "competitive" then they essentially never happened. I believe they tinkered with it, but at one point you only got hugely dinged for the third sack, at which point all three sacks were bad. If you only got sacked twice, then it was almost like those sacks never happened.

It's a truly abysmal stat.

My god that really is insane. Wonder why they decided that would be how their stat would work. seems really flawed and arbitrary.
 
Good write up Brother! I will add that the Phins do have many weaknesses. People can score on us in bunches. Our defense starts off very vanilla every single game. It's gonna be easy for a team like Atlanta or New Orleans to build up leads in the first two quarters. And our offense is in no way built to score all of a sudden, it can, but It's not made that way.
Thanks, man!

You're probably right about our defense but at least we can say it's yet to be proven. I'll agree that they can give up chunks of yards at times but the points haven't been too easy to come by, especially down near the endzone (same as last season). I agree with you on our offense, it's designed for short to medium plays that help sustain long drives. Tannehill hasn't been going for the home run very often at all.

I do think there are some positives in this last game though.

The defense was able to adjust perfectly in the second half only allowing a field goal.
Tannehill didn't have any turnovers. (that call was stupid)
Sherman actually realized that the zone blocking scheme sucks, and changed it.
Sherman ran sweeps and outside runs for once.
Miller actually chose better cutback holes.
Dion Jordan exists.
Agreed on all of these. Great points.

Things I didn't like.
Dion Jordan only plays the second half of games it seems. He is only put in on third down. So basically we drafted Ted Ginn 2.0. A player that only plays %20 percent of snaps. If he is hurt, why play him? If he is not hurt, why aren't you playing him in the first half? What are they waiting until the other team is tired to put him in?
I'm not too worried about Jordan. Right now he is a backup because of how deep the d-line is, so the Phins are fine with using him in certain situations only as his development progresses. Think of it this way --- the fact that the Dolphins have the luxury to sit Jordan most of the game and make 22 year old (younger than Jordan, by the way) Olivier Vernon the starter shows that Ireland has had some real success in building up this line. It's too early to judge Jordan one way or the other but as of right now I'm happy with how he's being utilized (primarily in the "speed" package which includes 3 DE's - Wake, Vernon, and Jordan).

Our pass rush sucked in the first half. Kevin Coyle was probably too worried about Lucks legs, but he burned us anyways. Might as well play aggressively and use a LB to spy.
Completely agree. I have no idea where the pass rush was in the first half, and honestly it didn't look much better during a big portion of the second half. Coyle is not shy about dialing up blitzes but the Colts were dealing with them quite well for the most part. Also, Wake was shut down on the outside the entire game which was disappointing.

Tannehill still would rather take the sack than run for it. He needs to learn to roll out of pocket after his progressions are done, this is how Big Ben usually sets up big plays.
Yes, what is up with this? You'd think the guy would have more confidence in his evasive ability given his background as a WR but he has looked like a statue in the pocket at times. He especially needs to get better at getting rid of the ball quickly on 3rd downs (particularly when he's being blitzed).

I woke up the baby when we sacked luck on fourth down. I felt bad :(
If there was anything that called for waking the baby up, that was it!

Also, from now on whenever the Phins have a big play I will refer to it as "waking the baby."
 

Godslay

Banned
Kirk Cousins should be starting. RG3 is not ready. Anybody with eyes can tell the guy isn't ready. He's clearly not healthy, argue mentally all you want, but something isn't right physically.

I will not respect the Chiefs as major competition for the Broncos unless they win their next 2 games. Easy to jump the Gun so early. How many regular season games has Peyton led the Broncos to victory in a row? Queffs can kiss my ass almost as much as the Raiders.

Shouldn't underestimate the opponent. They are as good as us until their record says otherwise.

They are not as talented as we are, but it doesn't matter if their record is the same. Personally, I can't wait to play them if they continue this way.
 
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