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NFL 2013 Week 3 |OT| - We're Up All Night To Get Gronky

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Y

yankeehater

Member
Starphoenix said:
So basically they're the 49ers under Alex Smith.
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Exactly. It really is impressive to see Reid adjust his style to fit the talent they have. 2 straight weeks they have 8 min plus drives to close out games. If you can get a lead on the Chiefs they are going to be fucked, but so far no one has been able to do that so they get to stay in their cocoon.
 
T

The_Darkest_Red

Member
squicken said:
btw, why did Ireland give away Sean Smith again? I know he is just a CB2 but he seems like a pretty good press corner
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From what I recall the biggest factor was his inability to generate TO's (5 INT's, 3 FF's in 4 full seasons). He dropped so many picks that would have been complete game changers. I think they were also expecting Will Davis and/or Jamar Taylor to be starting this season, but injuries have held them back.
 
E

eznark

Banned
On the AFC/NFC thing, I would imagine the overall records will be the same but that when playoff teams play each other through the course of the season the NFC will have a pretty solid advantage. In general there is probably parity, as in the shitty teams are all shit, but at the top there is a clear talent gap.

Denver is fucking LEGIT, the rest of the AFC playoff teams are gutter fungus.
 
H

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
captive said:
Yea probably not. Love it, every year fools on here are lollolol the AFC is going to kill whatever trash the NFC brings to the superbowl, and then the packers, saints and giants all win. Then last year it was the same thing lolol the NFC is going to kill whatever trash from the AFC makes it to the superbowl. Then best harbaugh is blowing out worst harbaugh till the freaking ghetto stadium loses power.
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I dunno, if the Superbowl were held today between us and Denver, Denver would probably kick our ass. We need to step up.
 
E

eznark

Banned
The_Darkest_Red said:
We would have said the same about Baltimore last season so whatever. The playoffs don't care about our preconceived notions of who the "best" teams are.
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Not sure what your point is. Anyone can beat anyone. Packers certainly weren't the best team in football when they won in 2010 and they were one of the best teams in the history of football when they lost to Denver in the Super Bowl. No one is disputing the "any given Sunday" cliche.
 
T

The_Darkest_Red

Member
eznark said:
Not sure what your point is. Anyone can beat anyone. Packers certainly weren't the best team in football when they won in 2010 and they were one of the best teams in the history of football when they lost to Denver in the Super Bowl. No one is disputing the "any given Sunday" cliche.
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Aren't you the one who argued all day with me about how winning the SB was the only true metric of how good a team is?
 
A

Askani

Member
ThisWreckage said:
He takes NO shots down field. Bowe caught one pass for four yards. There's playing conservatively and then there's playing afraid.
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Hunter S Thompson said:
It is a worthwhile criticism of there lack of offense without turnovers. They also failed to capitalize any points on a lot of turnovers with good field position. That is not a good especially when the Eagles have the worst ranked defense.
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I don't disagree with you that our offense looks suspect. I too would've like to see us pass downfield last night. However Eric Fisher looks lost out there and they were heavily pressuring Smith on a 3 man rush multiple times. It's no wonder there's nothing open downfield and you can't try anything to get Smith in the game when the defense is dropping 8 guys back. It helped when Charles got rolling but it's not enough. Our defense is good, but our O-line is killing us and has to find some way to get better.
 
M

Mackenzie 92

Member
yankeehater said:
I feel like you didnt watch the game. The Chiefs dont win because of their offense, hell their offense was terrible for 3 quarters last night. They have a bruising physical defense that forces teams into 3rd and longs and then gets turnovers or forces punts. Eagles couldnt score against them until late in the game and the D finally started to tire out some. Chiefs are built perfectly to win in the NFL, great D and an offense that never makes a mistake. I absolutely think they are going to make the playoffs this year unless something crazy happens.
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I wouldn't call the Chiefs defense great. I would call the Eagles offense incompetent and sloppy. They should have won that game. To be fair it was their 3rd game in 10 days though.
 
Y

yankeehater

Member
Man Steve Smith just totally took Cooper out last night. Eagles need to do something about the WR position. Avant is okay for a 3rd but Cooper is so fucking bad as a #2. Lane Johnson alos looks like a total fucking bust. My god he cant pass block at all. Every game guys are beating him clean and getting free shots on Vick. I am also thinking Billy Davis isnt the answer at DC. Curry and Graham both played great and yet they couldnt get on the field the first 2 games and barely got any snaps last night.

Curry 12 snaps 1 sack
Graham 17 snaps 1 sack

Those guys need to get more snaps desperately, they really need to go back to a 4-3 so both can be on the field at the same time.
 
E

eznark

Banned
You guys are confusing in-season evaluation with reflective evaluation. Teams should be judged by how well they are playing during the journey, but once it's over the only thing that matters is the Lombardi.

The_Darkest_Red said:
Aren't you the one who argued all day with me about how winning the SB was the only true metric of how good a team is?
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The only successful team is the one who wins the Super Bowl. That doesn't make them the best team, just the only successful one. Not winning the Super Bowl makes you completely and totally irrelevant though, so even if that Packers team is probably a top 5 team in history they are actually worthless fucking pieces of shit.
 
C

captive

Joe Six-Pack: posting for the common man
The_Darkest_Red said:
We would have said the same about Baltimore last season so whatever. The playoffs don't care about our preconceived notions of who the "best" teams are.
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...people did say they same thing about Baltimore. They were 9-2 i think it was and then finished 1-4? they had the "attempted mutiny," they fired their Offensive coordinator in season, the narrative was that they were a mess.

People make too big of a deal how teams play in September and October. Survive Sept. and Oct. and just get into the playoffs.

Hitokage said:
I dunno, if the Superbowl were held today between us and Denver, Denver would probably kick our ass. We need to step up.
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And yet, I would not be surprised at all if the superbowl contained neither team.
 
T

The_Darkest_Red

Member
eznark said:
The only successful team is the one who wins the Super Bowl. That doesn't make them the best team, just the only successful one. Not winning the Super Bowl makes you completely and totally irrelevant though, so even if that Packers team is probably a top 5 team in history they are actually worthless fucking pieces of shit.
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Haha, you are my favorite person to argue with (not being sarcastic).

I'm curious, what do you use to determine how "good" a team is? Besides your brain and eyes.
 
E

eznark

Banned
The_Darkest_Red said:
Haha, you are my favorite person to argue with (not being sarcastic).

I'm curious, what do you use to determine how "good" a team is? Besides your brain and eyes.
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Nothing. It's not an exaggeration to say I watch every game. Then I try to piece it together. It's a lot harder in sports like baseball or college football because you have to trust other peoples opinions as it's impossible (I've tried!) to watch every damn baseball game every day or catch every CFB game (fuck that sounds worse than hell). In the NFL it's simple to watch every game. First there aren't that many of them and second they have robust tools to help you do so. It's great! I'm not going to pretend to use advanced math or lean on outside experts if that's what you're asking though.

I will say the one thing I'd point to if you ever did ask me to validate some of the shit I spew is the market. Bookmakers aren't football fans, and the good ones I've known aren't even sports fans. They are analysts. If someone asked me to come up with the best formula for mathematically generating a weekly power ranking I would base it on some regression analysis of Vegas odds and point spreads.
 
G

gutshot

Member
yankeehater said:
Man Steve Smith just totally took Cooper out last night. Eagles need to do something about the WR position. Avant is okay for a 3rd but Cooper is so fucking bad as a #2. Lane Johnson alos looks like a total fucking bust. My god he cant pass block at all. Every game guys are beating him clean and getting free shots on Vick. I am also thinking Billy Davis isnt the answer at DC. Curry and Graham both played great and yet they couldnt get on the field the first 2 games and barely got any snaps last night.

Curry 12 snaps 1 sack
Graham 17 snaps 1 sack

Those guys need to get more snaps desperately, they really need to go back to a 4-3 so both can be on the field at the same time.
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Cooper sucks. The loss of Maclin was really felt in a game like last night. I'd like to see Kelly get the TEs more involved in the game.

I don't know if you can say that Lane Johnson is a bust just yet. He's had some pass pro issues, but he's still a rookie. I think he'll figure it out. Eric Fisher looked just as bad, if not worse. And besides, that Chiefs D-line is really good. Tamba Hali was making Jason Peters look silly out there.

I'm not totally sold on Davis either and I really don't get why they won't play Curry or Graham more. Although I don't think it's realistic to just look at their per snap production and think that is going to continue if they were starters. Coming in for a few snaps a game means you are undoubtedly fresher and can make an immediate impact against some tired O-linemen. Besides, the bigger issue on defense is our awful safeties and the fact that Kendricks can't make a routine tackle to save his life.
 
H

Himynameischris

Member
Morning ya'll, I just wasted an hour of working reading news stories on yahoo, 7 hours to go....also seems Celmons is starting this Sunday but no Patterson, so our secondary better step it up. No Soliai either but starks is pretty good so no worries there.
 
Y

yankeehater

Member
gutshot said:
Cooper sucks. The loss of Maclin was really felt in a game like last night. I'd like to see Kelly get the TEs more involved in the game.

I don't know if you can say that Lane Johnson is a bust just yet. He's had some pass pro issues, but he's still a rookie. I think he'll figure it out. Eric Fisher looked just as bad, if not worse. And besides, that Chiefs D-line is really good. Tamba Hali was making Jason Peters look silly out there.

I'm not totally sold on Davis either and I really don't get why they won't play Curry or Graham more. Although I don't think it's realistic to just look at their per snap production and think that is going to continue if they were starters. Coming in for a few snaps a game means you are undoubtedly fresher and can make an immediate impact against some tired O-linemen. Besides, the bigger issue on defense is our awful safeties and the fact that Kendricks can't make a routine tackle to save his life.
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I really dont get why they havent given Kerry Rhoades the $3m he wants. They have the worst safeties in football and they are killing them every single week now. They can cover, dont hit, and dont tackle, completely fucking useless. Also what is up with Casey, I dont think he had a single snap. Makes no sense at all. Sucks he dropped that TD but it was his first play, I cant believe he is just done now. Man you are so right about Maclin, the offense would be so different with him out there instead of Cooper.
 
S

squicken

Member
yankeehater said:
Man Steve Smith just totally took Cooper out last night. Eagles need to do something about the WR position. Avant is okay for a 3rd but Cooper is so fucking bad as a #2. Lane Johnson alos looks like a total fucking bust. My god he cant pass block at all. Every game guys are beating him clean and getting free shots on Vick. I am also thinking Billy Davis isnt the answer at DC. Curry and Graham both played great and yet they couldnt get on the field the first 2 games and barely got any snaps last night.

Curry 12 snaps 1 sack
Graham 17 snaps 1 sack

Those guys need to get more snaps desperately, they really need to go back to a 4-3 so both can be on the field at the same time.
Click to expand...

Fisher and Joekel are struggling too. It's early. Gotta give those guys at least a year before you can really say. As I remember it, Chip likes guys like Cooper for their blocking more than anything else. You'd love a guy like Andre Johnson out there who can block well and is a great WR, but what is an easier upgrade is replacing Avant. Need more from the slot guy
 
Y

yankeehater

Member
squicken said:
Fisher and Joekel are struggling too. It's early. Gotta give those guys at least a year before you can really say. As I remember it, Chip likes guys like Cooper for their blocking more than anything else. You'd love a guy like Andre Johnson out there who can block well and is a great WR, but what is an easier upgrade is replacing Avant. Need more from the slot guy
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I really thought that Chip would play Johnson some in the slot this year but I dont think he has had a single play this year. His speed could cause defenses some problems, man Avant is slow as fuck but he does make crazy cathes from time to time. I bet next year the Eagles let Maclin walk and bring in a new #2 and slot guy next year. They need WR's that cant get off the line against press coverage. Chiefs were jamming them every play it seemed.
 
D

DeaconKnowledge

Member
de949r.gif


Kion Wilson blew this play in two ways. The first is obvious as he fell when closing on Bernard. Also, he didn't give Worilds his proper assignment - he was supposed to drop, not blitz. Left flat was left completely open as a result.
 
T

The_Darkest_Red

Member
eznark said:
Nothing. It's not an exaggeration to say I watch every game. Then I try to piece it together. It's a lot harder in sports like baseball or college football because you have to trust other peoples opinions as it's impossible (I've tried!) to watch every damn baseball game every day or catch every CFB game (fuck that sounds worse than hell). In the NFL it's simple to watch every game. First there aren't that many of them and second they have robust tools to help you do so. It's great! I'm not going to pretend to use advanced math or lean on outside experts if that's what you're asking though.
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That makes sense, and I've definitely been trying to do more of that myself this season. I don't watch every game but I did get NFL Rewind for once so I'm watching a lot of teams that I normally wouldn't. I agree that it's the best way to form opinions on how good a team is.

I guess the area where I differ is I don't have my own "mental power rankings" so to speak. I can look at a matchup and predict who will win based on what I know about the teams but I usually don't have much confidence in my pick because I realize that in the grand scheme of things it is incredibly hard to predict that kind of stuff consistently and I'm just some dude watching football. I don't claim to be an expert, but on top of that I don't think anyone really is. That's the beauty of the NFL to me.

I don't really try to classify teams on some scale because most of it just feels so arbitrary and it requires too many assumptions. I guess it's easier in other sports like baseball because you play so many games, but in the NFL it's hard to figure out where every team ranks relative to the others because they don't even play half of the teams in the league during a season, and most of the teams they do play they only see once.

I guess the goal is to work with the best information we have (which for you for example would be watching the games and that's it) but even with that I don't feel very confident in any kind of objective measure of how "good" a team is. There are too many unknowns so I'm usually happy with more subjective remarks and feelings on a team.
 
T

this_guy

Member
Hunter S Thompson said:
Anybody notice how few points the Chiefs got off of three Michael Vick interceptions and two fumble recoveries? They made the Eagles D look so good. Way to give a game to an average opponent Eagles.
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Anybody notice how many points the Eagles gave up to the inept Kansas City Chiefs offense? Alex Smith won't throw the ball farther than 10 yards and won't throw unless the defender is 10 yards away from the receiver. They make the Chiefs offense look so efficient. (early in the game: 10 points off of 8 yards)
 
E

eznark

Banned
The_Darkest_Red said:
That makes sense, and I've definitely been trying to do more of that myself this season. I don't watch every game but I did get NFL Rewind for once so I'm watching a lot of teams that I normally wouldn't. I agree that it's the best way to form opinions on how good a team is.

I guess the area where I differ is I don't have my own "mental power rankings" so to speak. I can look at a matchup and predict who will win based on what I know about the teams but I usually don't have much confidence in my pick because I realize that in the grand scheme of things it is incredibly hard to predict that kind of stuff consistently and I'm just some dude watching football. I don't claim to be an expert, but on top of that I don't think anyone really is. That's the beauty of the NFL to me.

I don't really try to classify teams on some scale because most of it just feels so arbitrary and it requires too many assumptions. I guess it's easier in other sports like baseball because you play so many games, but in the NFL it's hard to figure out where every team ranks relative to the others because they don't even play half of the teams in the league during a season, and most of the teams they do play they only see once.

I guess the goal is to work with the best information we have (which for you for example would be watching the games and that's it) but even with that I don't feel very confident in any kind of objective measure of how "good" a team is. There are too many unknowns so I'm usually happy with more subjective remarks and feelings on a team.
Click to expand...


Maybe it's because I used to gamble way too much.
 
T

this_guy

Member
Tom Penny said:
I enjoyed the Chiefs slowing down the Eagles tempo several times by simply faking cramps.
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I enjoyed Shady's fake broken ankle near half time. He looked like he was in agony, only to appear right back in the game and bust off some huge runs. Like Paul Pierce in the NBA finals. What a warrior.
 
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