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NFL 2013 Week 5 |OT| - Are you ready for some 11:35 pm football?

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K

Kave_Man

come in my shame circle
This week keeps getting better.

I just won a contest through our radio station's twitter feed for picking the Browns to win yesterday.
 
D

DeaconKnowledge

Member
The_Darkest_Red said:
Eh, you are stretching the stuff I said. To me warm bodies implies that there is nothing about the guy that is even above average, which I would dispute for Hartline and Gibson. I wouldn't say either guy is "great" but I would say they are above average. Bess was also an above average slot guy in my opinion.

Did I claim that Wallace was a true number 1, or did I claim that the jury was still out on that? I never expected Wallace to magically gain the physical attributes that he clearly doesn't possess (like size and strength), but I wasn't ready to give up on his route running. I'm still not ready to give up on that.

I've been disappointed with Wallace so far. I can understand why Steelers fans say the stuff they say about him. However, I still think it was borderline necessary to bring him in if you want the Dolphins to have a shot at competing this season. I don't think the team would be 3-1 without him and I don't think the offense would be performing as well.
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This is what you said, at least in part:

The_Darkest_Red said:
Hartline goes from being the primary threat (drawing a team's best CB in man coverage) to being covered by the second best CB. Wallace's "one trick" stretches the field, which should open things up for a slot guy and TE's. That's the value. The rest is semantics.

And hopefully the other areas of Wallace's game can improve further.
Click to expand...

So far that hasn't happened. Hartline is your number one receiver. Wallace is a specialty guy, always has been.

Look, I like the Dolphins. I want them to take the division away from the Patsies, but guys like Wallace aren't the answer. Dolphins need more guys like Hartline (or Antonio Brown) that leave it all on the field, not wait for the absolute perfect opportunity to make a clean catch. Defenses only respect you when you catch the ball, and the word is out on Wallace in that regard - he just won't if you bully him.
 
M

Mackenzie 92

Member
LJ11 said:
Should have done it a couple of years ago. I'm sure they approached him, but he was better off waiting. He should be resigned.

Bills cut their punter, he was awful last night but I'm not sure who the better alternative is.
Click to expand...

I think Kluwe is still available. Weak leg, but consistent.

The Artful Dodger said:
Josh Freeman is still liked by Greg Olson




I guess, we'll see what happens...


I honestly, don't know how to feel about this.
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My feeling is, he's a more capable backup than McG and will continue to push Pryor. Flynn brought the best out in Pryor and I'm not worried about him losing the job to Freeman, so if Reggie can sign him for minimum, go for it. If he's a putz, they can always cut him.
 
F

Fox318

Member
LJ11 said:
Should have done it a couple of years ago. I'm sure they approached him, but he was better off waiting. He should be resigned.

Bills cut their punter, he was awful last night but I'm not sure who the better alternative is.
Click to expand...

0pJ533d.png
 
M

Meier

Member
Poor Shawn Powell (Bills punter) got released after last night's game. Hopefully someone else picks him up.. he was one of the best I've ever seen in college.
 
T

The Artful Dodger

Member
Mackenzie 92 said:
My feeling is, he's a more capable backup than McG and will continue to push Pryor. Flynn brought the best out in Pryor and I'm not worried about him losing the job to Freeman, so if Reggie can sign him for minimum, go for it. If he's a putz, they can always cut him.
Click to expand...

I agree with that. I don't necessarily see it is as a bad move. It's generally a low-risk. At the very least it'll push McGloin and Pryor.

The only downside, is like...bringing negativity into the locker room or media attention at times. The Raiders of now tend to favor the quiet, hardworking, chip-on-your-shoulder attitude right now. If Freeman's angry about how his career went down it could be a good fit, even just as a career backup.


Guess, we'll just have to see what happens.



Edit:
Talon said:
Matt Flynn should commit seppuku for being beaten on the depth chart by Ginger McFavre.
Click to expand...

Lol, my favorite was when Dennis Allen was criticizing his pocket awareness, and Matt Flynn was like...I don't know if I recognize what he's saying entirely.
 
E

effzee

Member
LJ11 said:
Byrd is not a cancer, he just wants to get paid well. He's a good dude. This is his one and only opportunity to make enough money to sustain himself for the rest of his life. Byrd's trade value is essentially zero, because you have to sign him at the end of the season.
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Yeah I don't see a trade but would love for the Eagles to sign him in the off season. We need a safety so bad its pathetic. Well we need a lot of help on D but safety is just a huge sore spot.
 
T

The_Darkest_Red

Member
DeaconKnowledge said:
So far that hasn't happened. Hartline is your number one receiver. Wallace is a specialty guy, always has been.

Look, I like the Dolphins. I want them to take the division away from the Patsies, but guys like Wallace aren't the answer. Dolphins need more guys like Hartline (or Antonio Brown) that leave it all on the field, not wait for the absolute perfect opportunity to make a clean catch. Defenses only respect you when you catch the ball, and the word is out on Wallace in that regard - he just won't if you bully him.
Click to expand...
Haha, that's EXACTLY what has happened! Hartline and Gibson are both on pace for career years, Charles Clay (an average TE at best) is all of a sudden finding himself open in the middle of the field, Hartline already has more TD's than he did all of last season, the offense has looked better on third down, the running game has seen far fewer defensive sets with 8 men in the box, and Wallace is consistently drawing attention over the top from a safety.

Wallace's direct contribution has been disappointing but his indirect contribution has been exactly what I anticipated.

It seems offensive coordinator Mike Sherman is satisfied using Wallace to draw coverage on one side of the field, allowing Brian Hartline and Brandon Gibson to exploit it with a two-man game on the other.

Both receivers are on pace for career years, and Wallace is on pace for a career-low. Coincidence?

"You want to make plays. I've been in this league for four years now. I'm used to cloud coverages. This is nothing new to me. It is just new here, new to the coaches here," Wallace said.
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http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/20..._1_mike-wallace-miami-dolphins-ryan-tannehill

This is not ideal. I realize this. Whether the issue is more Wallace or Sherman/Philbin, Wallace's direct contribution has not been great. That doesn't change the fact that he is helping the offense though, which is ultimately the reason he was brought in. And there is still plenty of growing to do, both with his chemistry with Tannehill and Sherman's use of him in the offense.

You talk about defenses only respecting Wallace when he catches the ball but so far that has clearly not been the case. He is seeing cloud coverage on almost every play regardless of how much he has contributed. If defenses start leaving him in single coverage his production will most likely pick up. Either way it's a win/win as long as the offense is moving the ball and scoring points.
 
K

Kave_Man

come in my shame circle
MechDX said:
What did you win? A bag of dicks?
Click to expand...

Greg said:
those assholes


what did you win?
Click to expand...

100 dollar gift card to Wegz. Its a pretty spiffy sports bar a bit north of me.

I'm also the first of 12 winners to be entered into the grand prize for a private suite at said sports bar for the super bowl, a lazy boy recliner and a PS4.

So in December we'll see how lucky I really am.
 
G

Greg

Member
Kave_Man said:
100 dollar gift card to Wegz. Its a pretty spiffy sports bar a bit north of me.

I'm also the first of 12 winners to be entered into the grand prize for a private suite at said sports bar for the super bowl, a lazy boy recliner and a PS4.

So in December we'll see how lucky I really am.
Click to expand...
that's awesome

Browns heading into the playoffs and a PS4!
 
L

LevelNth

Banned
Kave_Man said:
100 dollar gift card to Wegz. Its a pretty spiffy sports bar a bit north of me.

I'm also the first of 12 winners to be entered into the grand prize for a private suite at said sports bar for the super bowl, a lazy boy recliner and a PS4.

So in December we'll see how lucky I really am.
Click to expand...
Yeah Wegz is insane, it's just too bad it's so damn far north. Virtual driving range, TVs everywhere and I think they even have video game consoles hooked up, or at least they used to.
 
B

BlackGhost

Banned
Kave_Man said:
100 dollar gift card to Wegz. Its a pretty spiffy sports bar a bit north of me.

I'm also the first of 12 winners to be entered into the grand prize for a private suite at said sports bar for the super bowl, a lazy boy recliner and a PS4.

So in December we'll see how lucky I really am.
Click to expand...
Kave playing ps4 with us?! I am happy :)
 
D

DeaconKnowledge

Member
The_Darkest_Red said:
Haha, that's EXACTLY what has happened! Hartline and Gibson are both on pace for career years, Charles Clay (an average TE at best) is all of a sudden finding himself open in the middle of the field, Hartline already has more TD's than he did all of last season, the offense has looked better on third down, the running game has seen far fewer defensive sets with 8 men in the box, and Wallace is consistently drawing attention over the top from a safety.

Wallace's direct contribution has been disappointing but his indirect contribution has been exactly what I anticipated.
Click to expand...

Yes, because now you have more than warm bodies at receiver!

You're overrating the second safety. Safety play wasn't the Fins' problem. Talent was. They upgrade their talent and Wow! results! Must be Wallace, his 15 receptions are shredding defenses!
Dolphins last season averaged 311.5 YPG. Through 4 games, they are at 322.2
 
H

Himynameischris

Member
The_Darkest_Red said:
Haha, that's EXACTLY what has happened! Hartline and Gibson are both on pace for career years, Charles Clay (an average TE at best) is all of a sudden finding himself open in the middle of the field, Hartline already has more TD's than he did all of last season, the offense has looked better on third down, the running game has seen far fewer defensive sets with 8 men in the box, and Wallace is consistently drawing attention over the top from a safety.

Wallace's direct contribution has been disappointing but his indirect contribution has been exactly what I anticipated.



http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/20..._1_mike-wallace-miami-dolphins-ryan-tannehill

This is not ideal. I realize this. Whether the issue is more Wallace or Sherman/Philbin, Wallace's direct contribution has not been great. That doesn't change the fact that he is helping the offense though, which is ultimately the reason he was brought in. And there is still plenty of growing to do, both with his chemistry with Tannehill and Sherman's use of him in the offense.

You talk about defenses only respecting Wallace when he catches the ball but so far that has clearly not been the case. He is seeing cloud coverage on almost every play regardless of how much he has contributed. If defenses start leaving him in single coverage his production will most likely pick up. Either way it's a win/win as long as the offense is moving the ball and scoring points.
Click to expand...


Excellent point and Tannehill is on fire when it comes to 3rd down.

@TheMattyI
On 1st down, Tannehill's YPA is 6.2 and rating of 72.5. On 2nd, 8.4 YPA and 96.2 rating. On 3rd, 8.6 YPA and 90.5. Comp % also increases.
Click to expand...

Part of that is the coverage Wallace receives, leaving Hartline, Gibson and Clay wide open.
 
T

The_Darkest_Red

Member
DeaconKnowledge said:
Yes, because now you have more than warm bodies at receiver!
Click to expand...
No idea what you're saying but let me just make an attempt at closure.

I am not in love with Mike Wallace. I wasn't in love with him when the Dolphins brought him in. However, I understand the reasoning behind the decision and I think it was the right call. This offense would have been stalled without a true deep threat so they went out and got the best one available. Is that ideal? Certainly not. Developing a guy through the draft would have been better, and that's on Ireland. That said, it is what it is and the team needed a guy like Wallace this year if they were going to have a shot at competing this year.

I also think it's realistic to expect growing pains. Sherman needs to improve his use of Wallace and Tannehill needs to improve his chemistry with him. We'll see how that goes.

The biggest negative I see from this entire situation is the price tag. That is a very valid complaint, but again it goes back to how necessary the move was. If the Dolphins miss the playoffs this year and Wallace is causing all kinds of conflict or just completely sucking in general I will agree that it was the wrong choice, but so far the team is winning games and that's what matters.
 
D

DeaconKnowledge

Member
The_Darkest_Red said:
No idea what you're saying but let me just make an attempt at closure.

I am not in love with Mike Wallace. I wasn't in love with him when the Dolphins brought him in. However, I understand the reasoning behind the decision and I think it was the right call. This offense would have been stalled without a true deep threat so they went out and got the best one available. Is that ideal? Certainly not. Developing a guy through the draft would have been better, and that's on Ireland. That said, it is what it is and the team needed a guy like Wallace this year if they were going to have a shot at competing this year.

I also think it's realistic to expect growing pains. Sherman needs to improve his use of Wallace and Tannehill needs to improve his chemistry with him. We'll see how that goes.

The biggest negative I see from this entire situation is the price tag. That is a very valid complaint, but again it goes back to how necessary the move was. If the Dolphins miss the playoffs this year and Wallace is causing all kinds of conflict or just completely sucking in general I will agree that it was the wrong choice, but so far the team is winning games and that's what matters.
Click to expand...

That's fine. My contention is that your offense isn't really benefiting from Wallace. The Dolphins upgraded their skill positions and as such are more even. Wallace draws coverage, sure, but no more than Hartline or Clay will on any given play.

As I edited into my previous post, the Dolphins through 4 games are only producing 10.7 more yards per game. They are the 24th ranked offense, up three from 27th last year without Wallace. This does not a difference maker make.


I don't even hate Wallace, he's really good at what he does well, but you were making claims in the offseason that he was a 'true number 1' which I disputed. I clearly have a bitter taste in my mouth from his disappearance when he was with the Steelers, and I warned you it would happen there. The gains the Dolphins are seeing are from QB play, not Wallace.
 
T

The_Darkest_Red

Member
DeaconKnowledge said:
Dolphins last season averaged 311.5 YPG. Through 4 games, they are at 322.2
Click to expand...
Alright, kas.

The Dolphins averaged 18.0 PPG last year. This year they are averaging 22.8 PPG.

DeaconKnowledge said:
I don't even hate Wallace, he's really good at what he does well, but you were making claims in the offseason that he was a 'true number 1' which I disputed.
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I'd still like to know exactly what it is that I said, because I'm not dumb enough to think that Wallace was going to become Calvin Johnson overnight. I'm pretty sure my main contention was that his route running could improve, which of course set off the Steelers fan bat signal.

Going from Bush to Miller and Fasano to Clay is not an improvement. Gibson to Bess, maybe.
 
T

The_Darkest_Red

Member
DeaconKnowledge said:
Oh boy...

http://wp.advancednflstats.com/playerpage.php?playerid=11-M.Wallace&pos=WR&season=all

So I guess the added 4.8 points are from Wallace's 1 touchdown, right?

Forget it.
Click to expand...
Keep ignoring the masses of stuff I said about his indirect contribution. Numbers don't tell the whole story. I admitted that his direct contribution has been disappointing but if you want me to admit that he hasn't made the offense better then you are fighting a losing battle.
 
K

Kave_Man

come in my shame circle
So I'm assuming a partial tear could mean Hoyer returns later in the year? If he was done for the season I'm sure LaCanfora or whoever else would have said so in their tweet?
 
S

ShaneB

Member
Kave_Man said:
100 dollar gift card to Wegz. Its a pretty spiffy sports bar a bit north of me.

I'm also the first of 12 winners to be entered into the grand prize for a private suite at said sports bar for the super bowl, a lazy boy recliner and a PS4.

So in December we'll see how lucky I really am.
Click to expand...

Wegz is a pretty cool spot, enjoy!
 
M

MechDX

Member
Kave_Man said:
So I'm assuming a partial tear could mean Hoyer returns later in the year? If he was done for the season I'm sure LaCanfora or whoever else would have said so in their tweet?
Click to expand...

He is not coming back Kave. Your only hope is to trade for TJ Yates. He knows how to get a team to the playoffs and win there.

Its your only hope.
 
C

Colasante

Member
Kave_Man said:
So I'm assuming a partial tear could mean Hoyer returns later in the year? If he was done for the season I'm sure LaCanfora or whoever else would have said so in their tweet?
Click to expand...

Season-ender. In every sense of the word.

But at least he'll make a heck of a backup to Marcus Mariota next season.
 
L

LevelNth

Banned
Kave_Man said:
So I'm assuming a partial tear could mean Hoyer returns later in the year? If he was done for the season I'm sure LaCanfora or whoever else would have said so in their tweet?
Click to expand...
Unfortunately no, you'll still need surgery to reattach the ligament and that will end his year. He'd be looking at 8-12 weeks before he could even start rehab, so he'll be put on IR without question.

For Hoyer however, a partial tear is MUCH better and has a significantly higher chance of healing fully. So good news for him in that regard.
 
J

jakncoke

Banned
NFC doug
@sandiamond1
NFL Blogger Former Day-Trader Die-Hard Vikings fan NFC dude Panthers,Rams,Eagles / Red Sox, NC State,ECU,Alabama


This guy definitely trained tabris, crimson and squicken on their muli team talents
 
G

Greg

Member
jakncoke said:
NFC doug
@sandiamond1
NFL Blogger Former Day-Trader Die-Hard Vikings fan NFC dude Panthers,Rams,Eagles / Red Sox, NC State,ECU,Alabama


This guy definitely trained tabris, crimson and squicken on their muli team talents
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how did the move go?
 
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