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NFL 2015 Divisional |OT| - A Fraud Divided

kaiju

kaiju

Member
FrenchMovieTheme said:
a hail mary is always going to be a combination of a decent throw/catch and bad defense but in the case of this hail mary i mean erron was drifting left with pressure on and puts the ball up there into the endzone giving his receiver a chance to catch it. it's not the greatest throw ever, or even the best erron throw, but it's pretty impressive what he did
Click to expand...

That hail mary was incredible. If the Packers had won it could have been legendary.

aaron-rodgers-on-hail-mary.gif


jeff-janis-hail-mary-catch.gif
 
T

The Albatross

Member
Kastrioti said:
No, but I have the Brandon Pettigrew Phantom PI gif ready if Cowboys fans keep bitching about the Calvin Johnson rule being applied to Dez Bryant.

Listening to Packers radio right now (105.7 The Fan) and one of the commentators made the point about how Aaron Rodgers has not had a legit tight end since Jermichael Finley.

Also brought up the point on how Eddie Lacy is fat and if he doesn't get in shape the Packers have to look at RB or TE in the first round.
Click to expand...

Definitely true, Finley had a lot of potential. But, that's also true of a lot of QBs. How many QBs have "legit tight ends" in the NFL... maybe 5?

Brady -> Gronk
Smith -> Kelce
Newton -> Olson
Wilson -> Graham
Romo -> Witten

Then a bunch of like "Eh, they're pretty good" guys like MArtellus Bennet, Cameron, Ertz, etc.

And while FInley was a solid player, he never put up any super star TE numbers, either. Finley had one great year in 2011.. when he had 55 rec, 700+ yds, 8 TDs. And his best year is roughly comparable with Richard Rodgers stats from this season.... 58 rec, 510 yards, 8 TDs (obviously 200 yards fewer but a few more REC and the same number of TDs).

Not many QBs have "legit TEs." There's only a few in the league. Hell, Ben Watson had a better season thsi year than any of Jermichael Finley's
 
S

Sephzilla

Member
Anyways getting away from the sudden death talk... Man, it won't happen, but I really wish the Packers would look hard onto replacing McCarthy. His play calling fucking sucks (how many 1st down runs for 1 yard does he have to call before he realizes they aren't working), he's fucking terrible with timeouts and clock management, and he gets bailed out of a lot of bad play calls due having a talented QB.
 
B

bomb

Unconfirmed Member
I'll never understand the reasoning for why teams do not go for two to win the game in regulation but instead tie and go to overtime. Overtime is 50/50 more or less(most likely less with how the Packers finished) and going for two is like 65/35.
 
T

The Albatross

Member
CrocMother said:
Can't believe I'm getting into this again, but that doesn't matter. He's a runner and the play is over when his elbow hits the ground.
Click to expand...

is "it should have been a catch" enough for you Cowboys fans? What, do you need a written apology from all fans of all teams? Like I actually said "it should have been a catch." What more do you want?

edit

Actually that is what you asked for. An apology. A signed affidavit. Get over it. Plus didn't you only win on basically the same call a week before?
 
D

DeaconKnowledge

Member
Sephzilla said:
Anyways getting away from the sudden death talk... Man, it won't happen, but I really wish the Packers would look hard onto replacing McCarthy. His play calling fucking sucks (how many 1st down runs for 1 yard does he have to call before he realizes they aren't working), he's fucking terrible with timeouts and clock management, and he gets bailed out of a lot of bad play calls due having a talented QB.
Click to expand...
Mike McCarthey the new Andy Reid.
 
F

FrenchMovieTheme

Member
Sephzilla said:
Anyways getting away from the sudden death talk... Man, it won't happen, but I really wish the Packers would look hard onto replacing McCarthy. His play calling fucking sucks (how many 1st down runs for 1 yard does he have to call before he realizes they aren't working), he's fucking terrible with timeouts and clock management, and he gets bailed out of a lot of bad play calls due having a talented QB.
Click to expand...

what? mccarthy is a great coach. didn't eddie lacys 70-ish yard run come on first down? it's easy to criticize when things dont work in a game. look at mccarthys career as a coach, not one game. nfl is a cut throat business though, especially for coaches, so that is usually what people look at first (besides QB!)
 
S

Sephzilla

Member
bomb said:
I'll never understand the reasoning for why teams do not go for two to win the game in regulation but instead tie and go to overtime. Overtime is 50/50 more or less(most likely less with how the Packers finished) and going for two is like 65/35.
Click to expand...
Hindsight is 20/20 but I kinda think they should have went for 2. Arizona's defense was probably crippled morally, the life had been yanked from the fans, Packers had the momentum, and the Arizona offense had the Packer defense figured out so why risk overtime.

But McCarthy doesn't have the balls to try something like that so that's why I'm not surprised they kicked the PAT.
 
Effigenius

Effigenius

Member
The Albatross said:
Definitely true, Finley had a lot of potential. But, that's also true of a lot of QBs. How many QBs have "legit tight ends" in the NFL... maybe 5?

Brady -> Gronk
Smith -> Kelce
Newton -> Olson
Wilson -> Graham
Romo -> Witten

Then a bunch of like "Eh, they're pretty good" guys like MArtellus Bennet, Cameron, Ertz, etc.

And while FInley was a solid player, he never put up any super star TE numbers, either. Finley had one great year in 2011.. when he had 55 rec, 700+ yds, 8 TDs. And his best year is roughly comparable with Richard Rodgers stats from this season.... 58 rec, 510 yards, 8 TDs (obviously 200 yards fewer but a few more REC and the same number of TDs).

Not many QBs have "legit TEs." There's only a few in the league. Hell, Ben Watson had a better season thsi year than any of Jermichael Finley's
Click to expand...

Graham and Wilson is a stretch. The Seahawks sucked until graham went down for the year.
 
P

PopeReal

Member
coopolon said:
I think what was impressive is he made such a long pass while falling down.
Click to expand...

squicken said:
It's hyperbole but also just the totality of scrambling from pressure and throwing it that accurately and far against his body. Catch was just as impressive, but both dwarfed by stupidity of Cards' defenders
Click to expand...

FrenchMovieTheme said:
a hail mary is always going to be a combination of a decent throw/catch and bad defense but in the case of this hail mary i mean erron was drifting left with pressure on and puts the ball up there into the endzone giving his receiver a chance to catch it. it's not the greatest throw ever, or even the best erron throw, but it's pretty impressive what he did
Click to expand...

Agree with these.
 
S

squicken

Member
The Albatross said:
Not many QBs have "legit TEs." There's only a few in the league. Hell, Ben Watson had a better season thsi year than any of Jermichael Finley's
Click to expand...

Both Barnidge and Delanie Walker had out of nowhere years in 2015. I think Jordan Reed will be very good for awhile and Zack Ertz will be solid most years
 
B

BaltimoreLarry

Member
Larry Fitzgerald and I are two of the youngest Larrys out. We're a dying name, there are no toddlers named Larry. He and I are working hard to give it a better rep.

Good job Larry.
 
T

The Albatross

Member
Sephzilla said:
The NBA plays one more quarter. MLB plays a full inning. I think people forget the NFL sudden death rule was made in an era where offenses were nowhere near as dynamic.
Click to expand...

So, uhh:
a) it's not a sudden death rule.
b) The overtime rule was changed 4 years ago to what it is today.. Were teams in 2011 "nowhere near as dynamic" as teams today?

Stats simply don't back this up. The receiving team wins overtime 53.8% of the time. BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THEY WIN 53.8% ON THE FIRST DRIVE. Arguably, if the receiving team wins 53.8% of the time, they are likely not winning on the first drive. Considering that, statistically, one team wins 50% of the time in an NFL game, 3.8% (the difference between the average win percentage -- 50% -- and the average win percentage in overtime in the last 4 years of the receiving team) is just not statistically relevant to make a major case for it.

PLUS, there was nothing "dynamic" about Arizona's over time win. Simply put, Green Bay left the #1 player on the field wide open for a 70 yard gain. You deserve to lose when you do that.

Also, the NBA has a horribly boring, terrible overtime that is total garbage. The NBA product is terrible and the NFL should never do anything that the NBA does.
 
F

Fathead

Member
The Albatross said:
Definitely true, Finley had a lot of potential. But, that's also true of a lot of QBs. How many QBs have "legit tight ends" in the NFL... maybe 5?

Brady -> Gronk
Smith -> Kelce
Newton -> Olson
Wilson -> Graham
Romo -> Witten

Then a bunch of like "Eh, they're pretty good" guys like MArtellus Bennet, Cameron, Ertz, etc.

And while FInley was a solid player, he never put up any super star TE numbers, either. Finley had one great year in 2011.. when he had 55 rec, 700+ yds, 8 TDs. And his best year is roughly comparable with Richard Rodgers stats from this season.... 58 rec, 510 yards, 8 TDs (obviously 200 yards fewer but a few more REC and the same number of TDs).

Not many QBs have "legit TEs." There's only a few in the league. Hell, Ben Watson had a better season thsi year than any of Jermichael Finley's
Click to expand...


Jordan Reed
 
kaiju

kaiju

Member
Sephzilla said:
Anyways getting away from the sudden death talk... Man, it won't happen, but I really wish the Packers would look hard onto replacing McCarthy. His play calling fucking sucks (how many 1st down runs for 1 yard does he have to call before he realizes they aren't working), he's fucking terrible with timeouts and clock management, and he gets bailed out of a lot of bad play calls due having a talented QB.
Click to expand...

Be careful what you wish for. McCarthy has a proven track record of getting into the playoffs. Fire him, and get who? There is a sharp decline in good NFL coaches.

Many teams would die for a Coach like McCarthy.
 
B

bomb

Unconfirmed Member
Sephzilla said:
Hindsight is 20/20 but I kinda think they should have went for 2. Arizona's defense was probably crippled morally, the life had been yanked from the fans, Packers had the momentum, and the Arizona offense had the Packer defense figured out so why risk overtime.

But McCarthy doesn't have the balls to try something like that so that's why I'm not surprised they kicked the PAT.
Click to expand...

It's about winning the game. Not going to overtime to keep it close. It blows my mind. ARZ had all the momentum towards the end besides right after that Hail Mary and the Packers kick a PAT. What Pussies. At least the Steelers will go for two at the end of regulation to win the game.
 
N

Narag

Member
The Albatross said:
So, uhh:
a) it's not a sudden death rule.
b) The overtime rule was changed 4 years ago to what it is today.. Were teams in 2011 "nowhere near as dynamic" as teams today?

Stats simply don't back this up. The receiving team wins overtime 53.8% of the time. BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THEY WIN 53.8% ON THE FIRST DRIVE. Arguably, if the receiving team wins 53.8% of the time, they are likely not winning on the first drive.

PLUS, there was nothing "dynamic" about Arizona's over time win. Simply put, Green Bay left the #1 player on the field wide open for a 70 yard gain. You deserve to lose when you do that.

Also, the NBA has a horribly boring, terrible overtime that is total garbage. The NBA product is terrible and the NFL should never do anything that the NBA does.
Click to expand...

I can't imagine the backlash that'd happen if a full OT quarter is to be played, one team had already met the old winning criteria, then some superstar got IR'd after due to continuing play.
 
T

TheFatOne

Member
squicken said:
Andy Reid has an excuse. Tomlin and McCarthey have better QBs than Belichick but only have the one SB each
Click to expand...

The Packers offense would be pretty insane with Bill. The man doesn't get enough credit for the offense he has constructed. He's known as a defensive genius, but guy is a genius on both sides of the ball.
 
B

bomb

Unconfirmed Member
The Albatross said:
So, uhh:
a) it's not a sudden death rule.
b) The overtime rule was changed 4 years ago to what it is today.. Were teams in 2011 "nowhere near as dynamic" as teams today?

Stats simply don't back this up. The receiving team wins overtime 53.8% of the time. BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THEY WIN 53.8% ON THE FIRST DRIVE. Arguably, if the receiving team wins 53.8% of the time, they are likely not winning on the first drive.

PLUS, there was nothing "dynamic" about Arizona's over time win. Simply put, Green Bay left the #1 player on the field wide open for a 70 yard gain. You deserve to lose when you do that.

Also, the NBA has a horribly boring, terrible overtime that is total garbage. The NBA product is terrible and the NFL should never do anything that the NBA does.
Click to expand...

No. Statistically the Pack goes for two at the end of regulations and more likely than not it's successful and they win. Getting to OT was more important than the taking their chance of the best odds and MM blew it like he always does. Tomlin acts like a thug player 99% of the time but at least he has the balls and wherewithal to go for 2.
 
S

Sephzilla

Member
FrenchMovieTheme said:
what? mccarthy is a great coach. didn't eddie lacys 70-ish yard run come on first down? it's easy to criticize when things dont work in a game. look at mccarthys career as a coach, not one game. nfl is a cut throat business though, especially for coaches, so that is usually what people look at first (besides QB!)
Click to expand...

I'm not evaluating him based on one game. McCarthy historically has been awful with clock management and wasting time outs. He gets way too conservative at times when he should be aggressive (see: last year's NFC Title game). His play calling has become more and more predictable the last few years. His teams also seem to lack discipline and make a lot of stupid penalties that are a reflection of coaching. And the second half of this season he seemed borderline incompetent regarding how to fix the teams problems.

McCarthy is a decent coach but calling him a great coach is a big overstatement in my opinion. He has massively benefitted from Ted Thompson being a great GM and having two Hall of Fame quarterbacks his whole career.
 
M

mr2xxx

Banned
The Albatross said:
So, uhh:
a) it's not a sudden death rule.
b) The overtime rule was changed 4 years ago to what it is today.. Were teams in 2011 "nowhere near as dynamic" as teams today?

Stats simply don't back this up. The receiving team wins overtime 53.8% of the time. BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THEY WIN 53.8% ON THE FIRST DRIVE. Arguably, if the receiving team wins 53.8% of the time, they are likely not winning on the first drive. Considering that, statistically, one team wins 50% of the time in an NFL game, 3.8% (the difference between the average win percentage -- 50% -- and the average win percentage in overtime in the last 4 years of the receiving team) is just not statistically relevant to make a major case for it.

PLUS, there was nothing "dynamic" about Arizona's over time win. Simply put, Green Bay left the #1 player on the field wide open for a 70 yard gain. You deserve to lose when you do that.

Also, the NBA has a horribly boring, terrible overtime that is total garbage. The NBA product is terrible and the NFL should never do anything that the NBA does.
Click to expand...

NBA games become garbage when fouling becomes a strategy, kills all momentum and no other sport does that as a valid strategy. If it was the NFL will become Mutant League Football.
 
D

DeaconKnowledge

Member
"We have to let you go Mike. You called that timeout after the two minute warning. We need a winner in here".

Fans bitching about calling timeouts is the stupidest shit ever.
 
N

Narag

Member
DeaconKnowledge said:
"We have to let you go Mike. You called that timeout after the two minute warning. We need a winner in here".

Fans bitching about calling timeouts is the stupidest shit ever.
Click to expand...

We wouldn't be fans if we were better qualified to make these kneejerk calls. Currently we're only fit for the Browns front office.
 
T

The Albatross

Member
bomb said:
No. Statistically the Pack goes for two at the end of regulations and more likely than not it's successful and they win. Getting to OT was more important than the taking their chance of the best odds and MM blew it like he always does. Tomlin acts like a thug player 99% of the time but at least he has the balls and wherewithal to go for 2.
Click to expand...

I agree only Mike McCarthy is to blame, but in OT, you're not taking your chances on odds. The odds (53.8%) aren't statistically relevant to the outcome of the game. If Green Bay doesn't blow coverage on the #1 player on the field, they don't lose on that drive.

Maybe they lose 12 minutes later, or maybe they win 7 minutes later, or maybe they lose 75 minutes later in OT3, but if they don't blow coverage on the best player on the field and leaving him wide open, then they don't lose on that quickly.
 
F

FrenchMovieTheme

Member
Sephzilla said:
I'm not evaluating him based on one game. McCarthy historically has been awful with clock management and wasting time outs. He gets way too conservative at times when he should be aggressive (see: last year's NFC Title game). His play calling has become more and more predictable the last few years. His teams also seem to lack discipline and make a lot of stupid penalties that are a reflection of coaching. And the second half of this season he seemed borderline incompetent regarding how to fix the teams problems.

McCarthy is a decent coach but calling him a great coach is a big overstatement in my opinion. He has massively benefitted from Ted Thompson being a great GM and having two Hall of Fame quarterbacks his whole career.
Click to expand...

i get that he's not perfect and maybe i am biased after what happened to us but i don't think you get rid of a good (although flawed) coach unless you have someone better waiting to fill his spot. who do you propose you replace him with? you were a botched onside kick recovery away from the superbowl last year and just about got back to another NFC title game.

cdyhybrid said:
No you didn't.
Click to expand...

his daughters college fund was $17
 
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