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NFL 2016 Offseason Thread |OT2| No Country for Old Members

G

Godslay

Banned
videodyssey said:
Take him John! You won't regret it!

You will.
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He fits the offense. He'll be cheaper than Oz. If it doesn't work out, we can scrap him fairly easily and likely cheaply and draft and retry FA next year.

If we get him for a 3rd, it would offset with a compensatory pick.

Low risk proposition for potential high upside. Just a matter of SF taking the offer.
 
L

LyleLanley

Banned
jbug617 said:
Bills rfa Chris Hogan is visiting the Pats. There is no compensation needed to sign him.

Chris+Hogan+Cleveland+Browns+v+Buffalo+Bills+Ret3dF8LVP5l.jpg
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The guy went undrafted, he's white, he used to play lacrosse and played for a division rival. There's no way Belichick doesn't get a deal done.
 
S

SonnyBoy

Member
Future PhaZe said:
As a DC fan...completely disagree.

You think the locker room wasn't vomiting at the thought of Kirk after the shit he did prior to last season when he got his shot? When he was throwing multiple ints a game and looking like a bitch on the sideline?
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Additionally, I don't think you're taking the totality of the situation into consideration.

We're talking RGIII who has had every off-season that he was healthy, dedicated SOLELY to him. He was the focal point, receiving the majority of reps, attention and having the offense catered to his abilities.

On the other hand, we're talking about Cousins, who had the opposite experience. I'd like to imagine that players are aware of these things and judge/d them accordingly. We still haven't seen what Kirk can/will do with an offseason under his belt. An offseason where he is a starter and where we can pick/choose what players fit him. He hasn't had that yet and without it, he put up a strong season. So it's not a leap to think that he can further improve.

The run game average less than 3YPC for most of the 2015 season. Kirk was forced to throw 30+ times in a lot of games. So with consistency and backing of the coaching stuff, he grew a lot. And he showed that it wasn't flukish. We'll see where he goes from here. I'm not saying it'll be greatness but it'll be better than anything we've had in decades.
 
F

Future PhaZe

Member
SonnyBoy said:
Additionally, I don't think you're taking the totality of the situation into consideration.

We're talking RGIII who has had every off-season that he was healthy, dedicated SOLELY to him. He was the focal point, receiving the majority of reps, attention and having the offense catered to his abilities.

On the other hand, we're talking about Cousins, who had the opposite experience. I'd like to imagine that players are aware of these things and judge/d them accordingly. We still haven't seen what Kirk can/will do with an offseason under his belt. An offseason where he is a starter and where we can pick/choose what players fit him. He hasn't had that yet and without it, he put up a strong season. So it's not a leap to think that he can further improve.

The run game average less than 3YPC for most of the 2015 season. Kirk was forced to throw 30+ times in a lot of games. So with consistency and backing of the coaching stuff, he grew a lot. And he showed that it wasn't flukish. We'll see where he goes from here. I'm not saying it'll be greatness but it'll be better than anything we've had in decades.
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Huh? The offense hasn't been catered to his abilities since 2012. That's been the whole reason why he's declined in terms of his performance--that and the ACL injury. We never GOT to see if he could run the read option well again after 2012. People say the league caught up to the R/O...fine, could be true in 2016, but it wasn't true in 13 when Colin Kaepernick styled on the Packers by himself and almost won a superbowl.

Now again, reports say Griffin wanted the drop back offense installed. And if that's the case he dug his own grave with that. And like you said too--he can't stay healthy. That's his biggest problem imo and I think that's what ends up being the end of him with this next team. But purely in terms of football...the Redskins haven't been doing whats best for him ever since 12. Should have kept running the pistol and R/O until he broke down.

Kirk didn't get first option reps but this whole offense is catered to his skill set, which is a better advantage than reps with first teamers.

I hope Kirk plays well this coming year. I believe in our GM, don't believe in Gruden, and 50/50 on Kirk himself due to consistency.
 
S

Striker

Member
Bring back Tebow.

Giants looking at MLB Keenan Robinson, formerly of the Redskins. Looking at bio, he misses some games every year. FIts right in already!
 
kaiju

kaiju

Member
Godslay said:
He fits the offense. He'll be cheaper than Oz. If it doesn't work out, we can scrap him fairly easily and likely cheaply and draft and retry FA next year.

If we get him for a 3rd, it would offset with a compensatory pick.

Low risk proposition for potential high upside. Just a matter of SF taking the offer.
Click to expand...

As a Niner fan I just don't see Kap ever being a starter in the NFL. After the league figured him out teams got to his head. He's not the same guy we had the first couple years. Don't let the injury excuse fool you, there were no injuries when we benched him for Gabbert of all people. And I thought Gabbert played better.

I hope it works out for Denver and you get the old Kaepernick instead of the regressed version, and I hope for the Niners sake that they can get ANYTHING for him.
 
G

Godslay

Banned
MechDX said:
4) I'm told 1 reason for Osweiler's dissatisfaction in Denver was he felt he lacked options in Kubiak's offense. Sought more freedom at line

https://twitter.com/MikeSilver/status/707948627818221568

Deja Vu like a motherfuck . Heard this song somewhere before.....

And at the same time BOB popped a chubby
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TroyRenck: On last retweet. Freedom at line of scrimmage is earned. Flacco had to earn w Kubiak. And I can tell you that it was not a strength of Oz's
 
E

effzee

Member
videodyssey said:
As a Niner fan I just don't see Kap ever being a starter in the NFL. After the league figured him out teams got to his head. He's not the same guy we had the first couple years. Don't let the injury excuse fool you, there were no injuries when we benched him for Gabbert of all people. And I thought Gabbert played better.

I hope it works out for Denver and you get the old Kaepernick instead of the regressed version, and I hope for the Niners sake that they can get ANYTHING for him.
Click to expand...

I'd counter that while he played for Harbaugh, he played much better. He has to be a paired with a coach who can get the best out of him.

That is why I am shocked he wants to be traded. He could really excel in Chip's system. It really simplifies the offense, you don't have to audible, and with his ability to run/scramble, he would drive defenses nuts with the uptempo.

BUT since he does want to be traded, going to Denver makes sense. Great D and a better offensive mind who could cater to his abilities.
 
Y

yankeehater

Member
The_Darkest_Red said:
Bad teams tend to find themselves in these predicaments.
Click to expand...

Broncos are a good team and they have found themselves in a predicament in terms of QB. No team can prepare for everything, plus getting a good QB is way more luck then anything else.

effzee said:
I'd counter that while he played for Harbaugh, he played much better. He has to be a paired with a coach who can get the best out of him.

That is why I am shocked he wants to be traded. He could really excel in Chip's system. It really simplifies the offense, you don't have to audible, and with his ability to run/scramble, he would drive defenses nuts with the uptempo.

BUT since he does want to be traded, going to Denver makes sense. Great D and a better offensive mind who could cater to his abilities.
Click to expand...

I have listened to every press conference Chip did with the Eagles, I watched every video they put up on the website as well. Chip always said the #1 quality that he looks for in a QB is repetitive accuracy. I dont think Kap has that on the short to mid throws that Chip's offense is based around.
 
S

SonnyBoy

Member
Future PhaZe said:
Huh? The offense hasn't been catered to his abilities since 2012. That's been the whole reason why he's declined in terms of his performance--that and the ACL injury. We never GOT to see if he could run the read option well again after 2012. People say the league caught up to the R/O...fine, could be true in 2016, but it wasn't true in 13 when Colin Kaepernick styled on the Packers by himself and almost won a superbowl.
Click to expand...


I believe that the R/O is still viable. I believe that any sort of mesh-point trickey still works as long as it isn't the crux of your offense. Cam still runs it, Russell too. The difference between those players and RGIII is that they're elusive. RGIII has straightline speed (track) and defenders NEVER bit on his fakes. He was getting destroyed in 2012 also... The Redskins had a TERRIBLE 3rd down efficiency in 2012 and it just got worse once he lost faith in his abilities to elude them.


Future PhaZe said:
Now again, reports say Griffin wanted the drop back offense installed. And if that's the case he dug his own grave with that. And like you said too--he can't stay healthy. That's his biggest problem imo and I think that's what ends up being the end of him with this next team. But purely in terms of football...the Redskins haven't been doing whats best for him ever since 12. Should have kept running the pistol and R/O until he broke down.
Click to expand...

I believe there's truth to it. And that the truth lies in the middle. He got destroyed in 2012 and I think he realized it wasn't sustainable. His body isn't built for it. But he also wasn't mentally prepared for the adjustment he needed to make as a dropback passer in the off season. He was purely focused on rehab. It wasn't until this PAST off-season that he publicly admitted to finally changed his studying habits... You don't have to study as hard when you don't need to get to ur third read, or back to ur initial read because you have blazing speed. Sadly he lost some of it and it didnt translate well to the NFL.


Future PhaZe said:
Kirk didn't get first option reps but this whole offense is catered to his skill set, which is a better advantage than reps with first teamers.
Click to expand...
Yes, that helps him. But he had no chemistry with them. And DJax and Reed were hurt for most of the first half of the season... So even with that going against him, he did well.

Future PhaZe said:
I hope Kirk plays well this coming year. I believe in our GM, don't believe in Gruden, and 50/50 on Kirk himself due to consistency.
Click to expand...
Fair enough. I don't blame you. Im at about 70% belief in Kirk. But, we have to be honest here. WE could do a lot worse.
 
E

effzee

Member
gutshot said:
I tend to give Howie the benefit of the doubt in all of these conflicts between coaches and other FO people. As a non-football guy, I imagine he gets a ton of crap from lifelongers who don't think he belongs. They might be trying to undermine and disrespect him from the moment they start working together, thinking he is in over his head. It's entirely possible, maybe even probable, that all the poor working relationships he seems to have stem from this conflict.

Yeah, he's very ambitious and can be seemingly ruthless at times. But he likely has to be to avoid getting walked all over. And all the bad press about Howie has come from people he's had fired over the years. We've never actually heard his side of the story, only theirs. Maybe those people were being absolute dicks to him and that is why they were let go?
Click to expand...

First not all were let go, some left cause they couldn't make it work. 2ndly while I agree initially he might have received skepticism, had he proven himself more by now (and again he isn't new nor does he deserves a shot as some new outside voice), he would have won over the same skeptics by now. He really hasn't.

Firing Gamble and locking him out of his room was a dick move. The dude was a proven personnel mind who helped build the 49ers recent success and he couldn't stand him. It bums me out to know Gamble and Marynowitz should be leading our FO and yet both were shown the door cause of Howie.

I'd also add the NFL is all about changing and trying new things to an extent. The Browns just hired a baseball guy for their FO. It is all about the results. A FO can disagree on things but when reports come out people are leaving or being fired or coaches don't want to work with him then its alarming.
 
T

The_Darkest_Red

Member
yankeehater said:
Broncos are a good team and they have found themselves in a predicament in terms of QB. No team can prepare for everything, plus getting a good QB is way more luck then anything else.
Click to expand...
Their situation is fairly unique because of Manning. Most good teams have an established QB and core group of talent. They might add a few complementary pieces in FA but they won't overspend for guys like Suh, Vernon, etc.

Bad teams have more holes to fill and are more desperate to fill them by overpaying for free agents.
 
M

MechDX

Member
Godslay said:
TroyRenck: On last retweet. Freedom at line of scrimmage is earned. Flacco had to earn w Kubiak. And I can tell you that it was not a strength of Oz's
Click to expand...

How many years was Schaub with him and he never had that freedom you speak of? And don't say he didn't trust Schaub, he chose him over Manning in 2012

Kubiaks offense is best defined as simplistic at best. Not a bad thing but it doesn't evolve.
 
N

Not a Jellyfish

but I am a sheep
Whelp, new reports are Jets and Fitz are "nowhere close".

The deal offered is being called "backup money", looks like anyone that shows interest and willing to pay him will get him.
 
E

effzee

Member
yankeehater said:
I have listened to every press conference Chip did with the Eagles, I watched every video they put up on the website as well. Chip always said the #1 quality that he looks for in a QB is repetitive accuracy. I dont think Kap has that on the short to mid throws that Chip's offense is based around.
Click to expand...

Yes but he also runs the zone read no matter who is the QB. He ran it with Foles, Barkley, Sanchez, and Bradford. None of them fit that style.

The offense was the most dynamic and dangerous when Vick was running it. That was also the last time we really saw some creative plays.

Repetitive accuracy can be made easier when you simplify the reads, reduce the field to half, remove audibles, have a running game, and or are going so fast the D can't catch up.

I think Kaep can run that type of offense. He can certainly be better and more dangerous than Foles, Sanchez, or Bradford ever were in that style.
 
Y

yankeehater

Member
MechDX said:
How many years was Schaub with him and he never had that freedom you speak of? And don't say he didn't trust Schaub, he chose him over Manning in 2012

Kubiaks offense is best defined as simplistic at best. Not a bad thing but it doesn't evolve.
Click to expand...

Why was Manning given so much freedom then? Weird that the guy he picked over Manning in Houston didnt get that freedom but Peyton did.
 
E

effzee

Member
The_Darkest_Red said:
Their situation is fairly unique because of Manning. Most good teams have an established QB and core group of talent. They might add a few complementary pieces in FA but they won't overspend for guys like Suh, Vernon, etc.

Bad teams have more holes to fill and are more desperate to fill them by overpaying for free agents.
Click to expand...

There is no rule that if you spend much in FA its bad or you are a bad team.

It is all about the QB. If you have a top 5 franchise QB, you are set and you can afford to not do much. Such a QB covers up all warts and wins games in spire of lack of talent at certain positions.
 
T

The_Darkest_Red

Member
effzee said:
There is no rule that if you spend much in FA its bad or you are a bad team.

It is all about the QB. If you have a top 5 franchise QB, you are set and you can afford to not do much. Such a QB covers up all warts and wins games in spire of lack of talent at certain positions.
Click to expand...
I never said there was a rule, it's an observation of history. If you think your offseason championship title is going to lead to a SB title you're deluding yourself. I should know, just look at the Dolphins.

I'm not speaking in absolute terms here, it's just general knowledge that applies more often than not.
 
S

SonnyBoy

Member
effzee said:
Yes but he also runs the zone read no matter who is the QB. He ran it with Foles, Barkley, Sanchez, and Bradford. None of them fit that style.

The offense was the most dynamic and dangerous when Vick was running it. That was also the last time we really saw some creative plays.
Click to expand...

When any of those systems are clicking and running on all cylinders, QB accuracy is less important. RGIII did so well in 2012 because the throwing windows were WIDE-THE-F*CK-OPEN. Why? Cus the "action" of the play and the meshing of the QB+RB forces the LB's to pause. They can't get into their drops, leaving the drag routes widdddeee open. Vick, Kap, RGIII, etc. They introduce another dimension into the offense that forces the defense to pause even further. The worst thing you can do to a defense is force them to think, if theyr'e thinking... They aren't reacting.

Kaep can manage that. But he'll run into a similar issue on third down, specfically third and long. When he's forced to drop back, scan and fire.
 
G

Godslay

Banned
MetalFearSolid said:
I feel like Bill O'Brien isn't going to give him freedom either.
Click to expand...

Nobody has full freedom, not even Manning.

I can see Oz liking their offense more in terms of how it's run. But to try and use freedom at the line against Kubes is laughable. Especially when you have very little live QB experience.

Have to earn the license before you get keys to the car so to speak. Ask Brady, he's a perfect example.
 
S

Sweeney Tom

Banned
Jason Cole saying 3 GMs so far have refused to sign/interview Brent Grimes because of his wife's awful behavior

Turns out threatening to shoot a beat writer is bad for your husband's employment options, Miko
 
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