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NFL Offseason 2: Free Agency or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Squicken

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R

Rorschach

Member
squicken said:
My criticism is that I think he is done and McGloin is better. Heck Pryor might be better. But Reggie might just be following the Seattle model where he takes mid to late round risks on QBs until he gets it right. If Schoob can find his 2009-2010 form then it's well worth it as a one year bridge QB. In and of itself it isn't as bad as it's being made out to be, though. I agree with you
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McGloin? Maybe. We won't find out any time soon. Pryor? Not a chance. Pryor shouldn't even be playing in this league.

Alligatorjandro said:
I'd trade a late 1st for it.
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You've sold me. I'll go buy it later. Or maybe I should just dl it off PSN.
 
Goro Majima

Goro Majima

Kitty Genovese Member
So if a first round pick is worth like $20 million in terms of real goods, a sixth round pick is worth what? Two large pizzas?
 
S

Sanjuro

Member
Colasante said:
McKenzie won't be fired for the Schaub trade. He may be fired after spending a 5th on Matt Flynn, a 4th on Tyler Wilson, a 6th on Matt Schaub and having over $70 million in cap space and assembling a team that can't break the vaunted 5-11 record threshold after three years on the job.
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I mean, it's the Raiders. There aren't many positives to be had anywhere.

They either trade those picks and get QBs which don't pan out or they use those picks and draft QBs that don't pan out.

OR

They bring back Russell and win the motherfucking Super Bowl.
 
M

Mackenzie 92

Member
Colasante said:
It turns out the Raiders traded a 6th round pick to the Texans for Matt Schaub. A team with a need at literally every position on the roster traded a 6th round pick for Matt Schaub.

20130416_034059_mckenzie_300.jpg


Well, Reggie... it's been fun. Very curious to see who the Raiders will bring in as their new General Manager next season.
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Oh, c'mon.
 
M

Matrix

LeBron loves his girlfriend. There is no other woman in the world he’d rather have. The problem is, Dwyane’s not a woman.
Tamanon said:
It's going to be hilarious if Schaub does good and Fitzpatrick and the new guy struggle.
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Hilarious? Hell, I predict it will happen 100%.
 
C

Colasante

Member
Rorschach said:
Would you trade a sixth rounder for it?

It's one of the most important picks in the draft. Probably like sixth most important IMO.
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I totally get what you're saying and you're definitely not wrong, but I just don't think that's the mentality a GM should have. Every pick should be coveted, because every pick has the potential to become a blue chip player, even in the 6th round. Trading a 6th round pick for Matt Schaub looks to me to be an acceptance of mediocrity. For a team without a young core to develop besides Sio Moore and DJ Hayden, draft picks are even more valuable. I may very well be proven wrong if Schaub recaptures his Pro Bowl MVP form and leads the Raiders to a 6-10 record, but I'd rather have Matt McGloin and a 6th round pick, or Mike Vick and a 6th round pick, than Matt Schaub and his $10 million salary.
 
M

Mackenzie 92

Member
Colasante said:
McKenzie won't be fired for the Schaub trade. He may be fired after spending a 5th on Matt Flynn, a 4th on Tyler Wilson, a 6th on Matt Schaub and having over $70 million in cap space and assembling a team that can't break the vaunted 5-11 record threshold after three years on the job.
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Fired for not finding a starting QB with those picks? How many 4th, 5th or 6th round starting QBs are out there? When he uses a 1 or 2 on a QB and misses, then you might have a point and having cap money means jack shit if the players won't come and play. So far he's done pretty decent in FA all things considered.


Colasante said:
I totally get what you're saying and you're definitely not wrong, but I just don't think that's the mentality a GM should have. Every pick should be coveted, because every pick has the potential to become a blue chip player, even in the 6th round. Trading a 6th round pick for Matt Schaub looks to me to be an acceptance of mediocrity. For a team without a young core to develop besides Sio Moore and DJ Hayden, draft picks are even more valuable. I may very well be proven wrong if Schaub recaptures his Pro Bowl MVP form and leads the Raiders to a 6-10 record, but I'd rather have Matt McGloin and a 6th round pick, or Mike Vick and a 6th round pick, than Matt Schaub and his $10 million salary.
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I'm just gonna roll my eyes at this one. A 6th round pick for a starting QB is fine. Even for just one year. And I don't even like Schoob. Finding starters or even quality depth in the 6th round is extremely tough, (Even in the 4th, you only get a starter like 5% of the time if i'm not mistaken.) basically talking UDFA at that point. The Raiders are probably getting 2 comp picks, and reggie can easily trade back in the later rounds to reacquire the pick. He went in with like 5 picks last year and finished with 10.
 
M

Matrix

LeBron loves his girlfriend. There is no other woman in the world he’d rather have. The problem is, Dwyane’s not a woman.
Looking good with that hat on Matty

032114-schaub.jpg


At least he's smiling again. Good for him and us Texans fans.
 
C

Colasante

Member
Mackenzie 92 said:
Fired for not finding a starting QB with those picks? How many 4th, 5th or 6th round starting QBs are out there? When he uses a 1 or 2 on a QB and misses, then you might have a point and having cap money means jack shit if the players won't come and play. So far he's done pretty decent in FA all things considered.
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I agree, I actually like what he's done in free agency besides the Schaub trade. Woodley, Smith, Tuck, Howard, Jones, and Penn were all solid pickups, with Donald Penn being the possible exception if he can't stay in shape. I'm definitely rooting for the Raiders to succeed and I've been defending McKenzie for the past two years, but I fail to see what his vision is at the quarterback position. I just don't think Schaub is even an average starter at this point, his salary is too high, and giving up a draft pick for him in one of the deepest drafts in years seems foolish to me.

The idea that he needed to trade a pick for Schaub because otherwise Schaub would have gone to Cleveland is silly. Why is he in a bidding war for a quarterback who was benched twice last season anyway?
 
S

squicken

Member
Phil Savage ‏@SeniorBowlPhil
OAK could be in catbird's seat on May 8th w/ teams looking for LT help and knowing ATL sits at #6. Hunch is @RAIDERS will trade down, again.

For OAK, especially if WR Sammy Watkins is off board, a trade down works if they like TE Eric Ebron, DC Justin Gilbert or WR Mike Evans.
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Especially with Lewan's legal troubles, if ATL wants Mathews, not sure they can just stay at 6
 
M

Matrix

LeBron loves his girlfriend. There is no other woman in the world he’d rather have. The problem is, Dwyane’s not a woman.
MechDX said:
That smile will.be gone when he starts throwing INTs again. Raiders fans....


Traded Matt for a pick in the 6th...fitting
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LOL
 
M

Mackenzie 92

Member
Colasante said:
I agree, I actually like what he's done in free agency besides the Schaub trade. Woodley, Smith, Tuck, Howard, Jones, and Penn were all solid pickups, with Donald Penn being the possible exception if he can't stay in shape. I'm definitely rooting for the Raiders to succeed and I've been defending McKenzie for the past two years, but I fail to see what his vision is at the quarterback position. I just don't think Schaub is even an average starter at this point, his salary is too high, and giving up a draft pick for him in one of the deepest drafts in years seems foolish to me.

The idea that he needed to trade a pick for Schaub because otherwise Schaub would have gone to Cleveland is silly. Why is he in a bidding war for a quarterback who was benched twice last season anyway?
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I'm not a fan, but he has been successful in the past. Alex Smith was also benched for Kap, and the Chiefs gave up 2 high 2nds for him.

I do get your point tho, just think you're overvaluing the draft picks a bit.

And Schoob probably would have went to the Browns for less money. Just like with the Cards trading for Palmer last year, makes acquiring him easier.
 
Y

yankeehater

Member
Tim McManus of Eagles 24/7 is reporting that Jackson now believes he will be dealt.

"The feeling within the DeSean Jackson camp right now is that he will not be back," McManus said on 97.5 The Fanatic. "It's a matter of when, not if."

Just spoke with two sources close to DeSean. Receiver now believes he will not be back.
— Tim McManus (@Tim_McManus) March 21, 2014
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Where the fuck is my lighter?
 
R

remnant

Banned
A 6th round pick for a starting qb is fucking amazing. Let's not kid ourselves here. If any other team did that they would get props.

Its a good trade if Schaub plays well. Its great if he has a return to form. The question now is how much does he cost and how long will you bet on him. Do u do the smart thing and still draft a Bridgewater or go all in and draft a bunch check of dynamic players like Sammy Watkins.
 
S

Squall ASF

Member
yankeehater said:
Hey I am going to the Eagles Cards game next year depending on the date. Cant wait, I am also planing to go to Santa Clara and see the Eagles play the 9ers in their new stadium.
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Are you now? Then we'll have to meet up! I go to virtually every home game. Once the schedule releases we'll have to make plans.

Picked up Infamous at lunch, hopefully I'll get to start it up tonight. Future has me a bit hyped now.
 
Y

yankeehater

Member
squicken said:
Did it not bother you he was talking contract literally moments after the playoff loss? I think players should do everything they can to get payed, but when it is the singular focus, I guess I'd rather just find a replacement
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Doesnt bother me even 1%, everyone has their own motivations for why they play. If that is what gets him to play well then so be it, he is absolutely the most important piece of the offense. There is no way they replace him, the schedule will be harder next year, the jury is very much out on the defense being improved with Jenkins, no idea what Foles will do next year, if they give away a great player like DJax then they are incredibly stupid.

Squall ASF said:
Are you now? Then we'll have to meet up! I go to virtually every home game. Once the schedule releases we'll have to make plans.

Picked up Infamous at lunch, hopefully I'll get to start it up tonight. Future has me a bit hyped now.
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Yeah man. The wife told me the other day that once the schedule is out as long as it isnt during a holiday or something we will definitelt drive down for the Cards game.
 
E

effzee

Member
squicken said:
Did it not bother you he was talking contract literally moments after the playoff loss? I think players should do everything they can to get payed, but when it is the singular focus, I guess I'd rather just find a replacement
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What affect did that comment have at all on his performance in the play off game? He played his ass off.

All season he put his all into it. So if after the season is over he talks about his contract so be it. Does it bother me? Maybe only because I never want any possible holdouts or contract disputes but he isn't the first or worst offender. This isn't TO 2.0 here.

Finding a replacement isn't as easy as saying it is. DJAX's ability and threat is what opened up the offense for Foles, Cooper, and at times for McCoy too. After McCoy he is the best offensive player and threat every single time he touches the ball. His production was great. He doesn't get into trouble off the field, and isn't known to be a locker room cancer.

If the Eagles move him for anything less than a 2nd they are fucking morons. And a high 2nd round pick at that.

Going to rely on Maclin after the ACL tear to open up the offense the same way Desean did? I really don't get what they are thinking. They are well under the cap and didn't spend much in FA either.

yankeehater said:
Where the fuck is my lighter?
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I just don't get it man. For once we seem to have all the pieces lined up together on offense and instead of focusing on the defense where the real weaknesses are, they want to trade Desean and create a huge whole at WR.

Rorschach said:
lol Josh Freeman. I'd rather have a Nachos Bell Grande start at QB than Josh Freeman. When will people stop fawning over that one hit wonder? Also, why would you want Vick cancer in your locker room? And I like how people were like "omg Raiders need to spend" then when they spend "Raiders are spending! What a bunch of idiots!" Can't have it both ways, SI!
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Vick cancer in the locker room?


WHAT?

MechDX said:
Raiders only on the hook for this years salary of 10 million. Guarantee Vick is looking for at least 7.

They can cut him next season with no cap hit.
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They could have structured a deal for Vick very similarly.

Health issues aside, Vick is a better QB than Shaub no matter which way you slice it.
 
S

squicken

Member
yankeehater said:
Doesnt bother me even 1%, everyone has their own motivations for why they play. If that is what gets him to play well then so be it, he is absolutely the most important piece of the offense. There is no way they replace him, the schedule will be harder next year, the jury is very much out on the defense being improved with Jenkins, no idea what Foles will do next year, if they give away a great player like DJax then they are incredibly stupid.
.
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I would trust in Chip. If he thinks Desean's attitude is a problem and his production is replacable, then I'd have faith. It's much harder to find coaches with sharp offensive minds than it is below average #1 WRs
 
Y

yankeehater

Member
Fuck, even if Maclin is healthy there is no way to know how his game speed will be affected by the injury. Plus what if Maclin blows his knee out again, Cooper is the #1 WR then? Ugh, they are going to gimp the #2 offense and do nothing to improve the #31 defense. The odd thing to was on todays Eagles fancast the bledding green guy was on and he said that the Eagles should be all in this year to try and win a SB, because the OL is great now but 2 guys are over 30 and another guy has had a serious knee injury. He said that in a year or 2 they will need to rebuild the OL and there is no way to know how that will go.
 
R

remnant

Banned
Or maybe Reggie doesn't want a mobile qb to start? Reggie and Dennis wanted Flynn to start, saw more in mcgloin than pyror and have made more noise towards Bridgewater and bortles than manziel.

Clearly they have a preference.
 
C

Colasante

Member
yankeehater said:
Fuck, even if Maclin is healthy there is no way to know how his game speed will be affected by the injury. Plus what if Maclin blows his knee out again, Cooper is the #1 WR then? Ugh, they are going to gimp the #2 offense and do nothing to improve the #31 defense. The odd thing to was on todays Eagles fancast the bledding green guy was on and he said that the Eagles should be all in this year to try and win a SB, because the OL is great now but 2 guys are over 30 and another guy has had a serious knee injury. He said that in a year or 2 they will need to rebuild the OL and there is no way to know how that will go.
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If I had DeSean Jackson on my team, I probably wouldn't want to see him leave either, but I think in the end, trading Jackson will be a net win for the Eagles. Chemistry is important and I think Jackson's perceived "me first" attitude will be a detriment to that. I think Chip Kelly's offense is bigger than any singular piece and that Jackson's contract, while not unreasonable at all, can be seen as too costly relative to his necessity in the offense. If they get a 3rd round pick for Jackson, get his salary off the books, and can pick up someone like Odell Beckham Jr. or Brandin Cooks, they'll be in fine shape.
 
D

Dr_LawyerCop

Member
yankeehater said:
Fuck, even if Maclin is healthy there is no way to know how his game speed will be affected by the injury. Plus what if Maclin blows his knee out again, Cooper is the #1 WR then? Ugh, they are going to gimp the #2 offense and do nothing to improve the #31 defense. The odd thing to was on todays Eagles fancast the bledding green guy was on and he said that the Eagles should be all in this year to try and win a SB, because the OL is great now but 2 guys are over 30 and another guy has had a serious knee injury. He said that in a year or 2 they will need to rebuild the OL and there is no way to know how that will go.
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It's a pretty awesome WR class, and the Eagles would be an ideal situation for a rookie WR to step into. The offense will be just fine without him.
 
F

Futurevoid

Member
chris.trejo said:
Care to list to the ones? I'm at work
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Sure:

10. Super Bowl IV Chiefs over Vikings 23-7
9. Vikings upset 49ers in 1987 playoffs
8. Super Bowl XXV Giants over Bills 20-19
7. Redskins' scabs beat 'America's Team' Final score 13-7
6. Jaguars upset Broncos in 1996 playoffs, 30-27
5. Super Bowl XXXII, Broncos over Packers 31-24
4. Browns upset Eagles in 1950 opener, 35-10
3. Super Bowl XXXVI, Patriots over the Rams 20-17
2. Super Bowl XLII, Giants over the Pats, 17-14
1. Super Bowl III, Jets over the Colts 16-7
 
H

Himynameischris

Member
Futurevoid said:
Sure:

10. Super Bowl IV Chiefs over Vikings 23-7
9. Vikings upset 49ers in 1987 playoffs
8. Super Bowl XXV Giants over Bills 20-19
7. Redskins' scabs beat 'America's Team' Final score 13-7
6. Jaguars upset Broncos in 1996 playoffs, 30-27
5. Super Bowl XXXII, Broncos over Packers 31-24
4. Browns upset Eagles in 1950 opener, 35-10
3. Super Bowl XXXVI, Patriots over the Rams 20-17
2. Super Bowl XLII, Giants over the Pats, 17-14
1. Super Bowl III, Jets over the Colts 16-7
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Cool thanks, I'm interested in why number 4 is up there, I'll have to look into it.
 
M

Matrix

LeBron loves his girlfriend. There is no other woman in the world he’d rather have. The problem is, Dwyane’s not a woman.
jmood88 said:
I don't think that it will be surprising to anyone if Fitzmagic or Yates struggle.
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Yates? I'll be shocked if he's back at all.

He's Schoob jr and even fell behind Case.
 
Y

yankeehater

Member
I don't trust any rookie to come close to DJaxs production. How many people thought Mike Williams would be a total bust, or Charles Rodgers. So many high pick WRs have done nothing in the pros. Trading a known for an unknown seems super risky.
 
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