• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

NFL Offseason Thread 2013 - Here comes the wait

F

Future PhaZe

Member
That's why I'm against getting "proven vet coaches" when you need to be in a rebuilding situation. We saw it with Mike when he tried to rush into a win now situation by getting Don. Luckily someone or something got him to ditch that effort and go all in for Griffin.

So Reid is doing the same thing Shanny did--coming in and trying to win now from the get go, rather than doing the gritty rebuild work it takes to become a contender.

It's not that hard to get good in the NFL, it just takes patience. Build up your lines and don't take a QB unless he's a sure thing. Don't go all Browns theory and get scrub QB's every year or buy game managers from teams who realize they have to blow it up.
 
E

eznark

Banned
Futurevoid said:
Just saw it come through. 2nd this year and a mid-rounder next year. Definite overpay considering the position of the 2nd rounder but better than what was previously reported. We'll see what Reid can do with Alex before crapping on the deal too much.
Click to expand...

Joeckel/ASmith >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Geno/scrub OL
 
Y

yankeehater

Member
eznark said:
Eh, they need a QB and Smith is better than any QB in this class. If it means they don't have to reach for Geno then I think it's a very, very smart move.

They were going to blow one of their first two picks on a QB, they must have decided they liked Smith more.
Click to expand...

Even if you like Alex better then the guys in this draft he is 28, he gets paid $9m this year, and you could have gotten him for just money if you wanted to. The 9ers had to cut him. This seems like Reid was bidding against himself. On top of all that unless Reid is going to drastically chance the offense he runs small hands seems like a terrible fit. I dont get this move at all.
 
C

Cagey

Banned
A team in the Chiefs position shouldn't be paying anything of value for Alex Smith besides cash money, and even then I wouldn't, but that's too long-term an outlook. An immediate bump in record (coincides nicely with an easy schedule -- their own AFC West + AFC South + NFC East + two last place AFC teams) will serve as a nice drug.

It'll get Chefs fans high, and when it wears off, they're 5-11 again with no QB.
 
E

eznark

Banned
yankeehater said:
Even if you like Alex better then the guys in this draft he is 28, he gets paid $9m this year, and you could have gotten him for just money if you wanted to. The 9ers had to cut him. This seems like Reid was bidding against himself. On top of all that unless Reid is going to drastically chance the offense he runs small hands seems like a terrible fit. I dont get this move at all.
Click to expand...

The Chiefs have to be way, way, way below the cap. I doubt it's even a small factor in their decision making.
 
E

effzee

Member
Dark FaZe said:
That's why I'm against getting "proven vet coaches" when you need to be in a rebuilding situation. We saw it with Mike when he tried to rush into a win now situation by getting Don. Luckily someone or something got him to ditch that effort and go all in for Griffin.

So Reid is doing the same thing Shanny did--coming in and trying to win now from the get go, rather than doing the gritty rebuild work it takes to become a contender.

It's not that hard to get good in the NFL, it just takes patience. Build up your lines and don't take a QB unless he's a sure thing. Don't go all Browns theory and get scrub QB's every year or buy game managers from teams who realize they have to blow it up.
Click to expand...

Completely different situation though. Mike didn't take over the Redskins with Griffin on the board.

Chiefs OLINE is already decent and their D is not great but it is underrated especially for how much they had to be on the field.

And with the #1 pick overall they can still take Joeckel to be that tackle for a decade or resign their own FA Tackle and use the #1 pick to go DL. Or trade down and regain a 2nd round pick.

Funny how this acquisition doesn't change the draft board at all.
 
S

Spectral Glider

Member
eznark said:
Eh, they need a QB and Smith is better than any QB in this class. If it means they don't have to reach for Geno then I think it's a very, very smart move.

They were going to blow one of their first two picks on a QB, they must have decided they liked Smith more.

Look at it this way, their first two picks are now Luke Joekel and Alex Smith instead of Geno and the 10th best OL.
Click to expand...

Possibly. But I'm not sure it's worth a 2nd for a guy that was most likely going to be released by the Niners anyway.
 
Q

Quikies83

Member
eznark said:
The Chiefs have to be way, way, way below the cap. I doubt it's even a small factor in their decision making.
Click to expand...

It was around 17 or 18 million under a few weeks ago.. We still have 3 players we need to sign ( Bowe, Brandon Albert, and Dustin Colquitt). But we also need to go ahead and cut the two guys who are due serious cash -- Matt Cassel and Tyson Jackson.
 
E

effzee

Member
Quikies83 said:
It was around 17 or 18 million under a few weeks ago.. We still have 3 players we need to sign ( Bowe, Brandon Albert, and Dustin Colquitt). But we also need to go ahead and cut the two guys who are due serious cash -- Matt Cassel and Tyson Jackson.
Click to expand...

Don't think they bring back Albert unless they can trade out of the #1 pick.
 
F

Futurevoid

Member
eznark said:
The Chiefs have to be way, way, way below the cap. I doubt it's even a small factor in their decision making.
Click to expand...
They're 15 million below the cap as of last week according to most reports.

eznark said:
How much do the Chiefs save by cutting Cassel? I have no idea how his contract was structured.
Click to expand...
It looks like about 6 million. His cap hit is nearly 10 million with a 2.5 million bonus that will likely get paid out.

EDIT: ActStriker is right. It's about 6 million in cap space savings. Edited my original post to reflect.
 
E

eznark

Banned
Spectral Glider said:
Possibly. But I'm not sure it's worth a 2nd for a guy that was most likely going to be released by the Niners anyway.
Click to expand...

We'll see. Smith only has one year left on his deal so I assume the Chiefs have discussed a contract extension which will probably restructure the cap hit for 2013. If they can get a favorable contract by holding his rights then I think it's a great move.

Thi is such an unfair comparison. The real question is Joeckel/ASmith better then Joeckel/who ever they could have got at the top of the 2nd round.
Click to expand...

Lol, ok. Put a QB in that equations who would look better. C'mon.
 
Y

yankeehater

Member
eznark said:
Lol, ok. Put a QB in that equations who would look better. C'mon.
Click to expand...

Why does it have to be a QB? Reid could grab a guy late, like he did last year with Foles, or he could have waited to grab a guy that gets released like say Alex Smith. I just dont get why a team that is years away from competing is giving away picks for a guy that isnt good enough for them to win with.
 
Q

Quikies83

Member
Futurevoid said:
They're 15 million below the cap as of last week according to most reports.


It looks like about 6 million. His cap hit is nearly 10 million with a 2.5 million bonus that will likely get paid out.

EDIT: ActStriker is right. It's about 6 million in cap space savings. Edited my original post to reflect.
Click to expand...

And around 12 million saved once we cut the useless Tyson Jackson
 
B

BaltimoreLarry

Member
I'd say fuck the Niners for making such a sweet deal for themselves, and now the possibility of bringing in Harvin/Revis too, but since we beat them in the Superbowl, who cares?
 
A

amishpriest99

Member
eznark said:
We'll see. Smith only has one year left on his deal so I assume the Chiefs have discussed a contract extension which will probably restructure the cap hit for 2013. If they can get a favorable contract by holding his rights then I think it's a great move.
Click to expand...

I tend to agree that if the Chiefs can get a favorable extension then this will work out a little better for them. They are giving up a lot, so they better hope it happens that way.
 
E

eznark

Banned
yankeehater said:
Why does it have to be a QB? Reid could grab a guy late, like he did last year with Foles, or he could have waited to grab a guy that gets released like say Alex Smith. I just dont get why a team that is years away from competing is giving away picks for a guy that isnt good enough for them to win with.
Click to expand...

Foles is good enough to win with but Alex Smith isn't? I feel like you are completely clueless as to the state of available QB's this off-season. The best available QB is going to be Matt Moore.

Matt Moore.

I think the Chiefs have some talent on that team. They were disgustingly undisciplined and terribly coached and had some of the worst play from the QB position in years but they have talent. I don't think they are hopeless at all, especially in the AFC.
 
A

Afrikan

Member
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=270464&page=2

Chiefs fans are not taking the latest news well.

1315674425408403.gif
 
C

ChanHuk

Banned
Chiefs keep forgetting about that Dwayne Bowe guy, he's pretty good no? Actually I don't think he'd fit the WCO well since he has the dropsies.
 
E

effzee

Member
Quikies83 said:
Don't think that we'll trade out of that 1st round unless we can get a king's ransom.
Click to expand...

True and there is no gotta have player at the top but if a team was interested, say like the Rams who have two first round picks, I can see Chiefs trading down to mid first round and grabbing a 2nd round pick. Then if you re sign Albert you can select the BPA whenever you pick.

Or what I think will happen is they will Albert walk and draft Jockel or Fisher at 1.

yankeehater said:
Why does it have to be a QB? Reid could grab a guy late, like he did last year with Foles, or he could have waited to grab a guy that gets released like say Alex Smith. I just dont get why a team that is years away from competing is giving away picks for a guy that isnt good enough for them to win with.
Click to expand...

Don't think they are years away. If Reid sets aside his ego, uses Smith how 49ers did, and relies on an already very good running game they can compete within a year or two.
 
B

bluemax

Banned
Dark FaZe said:
That's why I'm against getting "proven vet coaches" when you need to be in a rebuilding situation. We saw it with Mike when he tried to rush into a win now situation by getting Don. Luckily someone or something got him to ditch that effort and go all in for Griffin.

So Reid is doing the same thing Shanny did--coming in and trying to win now from the get go, rather than doing the gritty rebuild work it takes to become a contender.

It's not that hard to get good in the NFL, it just takes patience. Build up your lines and don't take a QB unless he's a sure thing. Don't go all Browns theory and get scrub QB's every year or buy game managers from teams who realize they have to blow it up.
Click to expand...

It took Pete Carroll and John Schneider 3 seasons to completely rebuild the Seahawks. How many front offices and fan bases have that kind of patience?

Hell, people were starting to call for Pete's head earlier this season.
 
F

Futurevoid

Member
yankeehater said:
Why does it have to be a QB? Reid could grab a guy late, like he did last year with Foles, or he could have waited to grab a guy that gets released like say Alex Smith.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure why you're making the assumption that Smith was going to be released. The Niners were always going to trade him and there way ALWAYS going to be a market for him. If he wasn't traded to the Chiefs he would have been traded somewhere else. The Niners were not going to let him walk without getting back some value for him.

If you doubt his market viability - see eznark's post. He was by far the best available QB in the"FA" market if you want to call it that since he's technically not an FA.
 
Y

yankeehater

Member
eznark said:
Foles is good enough to win with but Alex Smith isn't? I feel like you are completely clueless as to the state of available QB's this off-season. The best available QB is going to be Matt Moore.

Matt Moore.

I think the Chiefs have some talent on that team. They were disgustingly undisciplined and terribly coached and had some of the worst play from the QB position in years but they have talent. I don't think they are hopeless at all, especially in the AFC.
Click to expand...

I hate Foles, I think he is terrible. My point is if you want a QB that isnt going to win you a championship they could just grab a guy later in the draft. KC should be focusing on rebuilding the other spots now and try to grab a QB next year when there should be some better options.
 
E

eznark

Banned
yankeehater said:
I hate Foles, I think he is terrible. My point is if you want a QB that isnt going to win you a championship they could just grab a guy later in the draft. KC should be focusing on rebuilding the other spots now and try to grab a QB next year when there should be some better options.
Click to expand...

I don't know the future so I guess I am at a disadvantage in this conversation.
 
Q

Quikies83

Member
ChanHuk said:
Chiefs keep forgetting about that Dwayne Bowe guy, he's pretty good no? Actually I don't think he'd fit the WCO well since he has the dropsies.
Click to expand...

Cassel wasn't hitting Bowe deep very often -- most of Bowe's yardage comes from YAC. He would be good in a WCO -- he's a big strong body, beats bump n' run coverage and works the middle of the field very well.
Bowe will get tagged again and will probably get a contract early this season.
 
F

Futurevoid

Member
Plot thickens:

Jason La Canfora @JasonLaCanfora

On Alex Smith trade, hearing its worth a maximum of 2 second round picks, depending on his performance. KC's 2nd round in 2013 for certain
Click to expand...

So if small hands blows it up, that mid-rounder escalates. I doubt anyone in KC will care if it does escalate to another second rounder if Smith does blow it up though.
 
Q

Quikies83

Member
eznark said:
Chiefs seem to have injury concerns with him. At 70+ games started at tackle I don't blame them.
Click to expand...

We should keep him.. even if we move him to guard or another position.. he has missed a few games but the guy gave up 1 sack in 10 games last year. He isn't bad.
 
Y

yankeehater

Member
eznark said:
I don't know the future so I guess I am at a disadvantage in this conversation.
Click to expand...

I dont know the future either. I do know that the one time Alex got close he totally failed. He couldnt do anything on 3rd down, and also couldnt complete a pass to a WR. I also know that his own coach dumped him for a 2nd year guy even though they were trying to win a SB. If the guy that sees him in practice every day didnt think he was good enough to win, I would think that is probably true. I guess Reid could build up a team around him that is so good it totally covers up how bad he is.
 
C

Colasante

Member
I don't see Alex Smith/Luke Joekel as being a Super Bowl-winning combination, any more so than Geno Smith/Kyle Long or whoever. As good as Smith was in 2011, the supporting cast in KC doesn't come close to that in SF and Andy Reid isn't comparable to Jim Harbaugh. If the 49ers thought that they needed a more dynamic quarterback than Smith to win the Super Bowl, how the hell can Andy Reid look at Smith and think that he can win with him?
 
E

eznark

Banned
Colasante said:
I don't see Alex Smith/Luke Joekel as being a Super Bowl-winning combination, any more so than Geno Smith/Kyle Long or whoever. As good as Smith was in 2011, the supporting cast in KC doesn't come close to that in SF and Andy Reid isn't comparable to Jim Harbaugh. If the 49ers thought that they needed a more dynamic quarterback than Smith to win the Super Bowl, how the hell can Andy Reid look at Smith and think that he can win with him?
Click to expand...

I think Reid is more concerned with winning games than with winning championships.
 
C

Colasante

Member
My only thought for why the Chiefs could be doing this is that John Dorsey thought there was no way anyone else could win the division while Peyton was around, so they decided to use Smith for two years while grooming someone to take over once Peyton's gone in 2015. If that's the case, then I guess it works, since I'd rather have Smith as the bridge QB than Cassell.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

2024 NFL Draft Day Thread |OT|
31
1K
AJUMP23 replied
Outcast: A New Beginning | Review Thread + |OT|
|OT| Analysis Review 2
81
7K
SF Kosmo replied
Coming to Xbox Game Pass: Madden NFL 24, Tales of Arise, Resident Evil 3 PlateUp!, and More
News
33
3K
ThatStupidLion replied
Coming to Game Pass: Atlas Fallen, Core Keeper, and Star Trucker
News
22
1K
West Texas CEO replied
Coming to Game Pass: Age of Mythology: Retold, Expeditions: A MudRunner Game, and More
Platform
24
1K
PontiusFeeb replied
Top Bottom