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NFL Offseason Thread 2013 - Here comes the wait

F

FrenchMovieTheme

Member
squicken said:
18m guaranteed, 27m over 3 years. It's high for sure. He's worth it if healthy. Obviously HUGE if

edit: Harvin is an elite player. But as a WR, not elite. Have to find a way to get him touches. Similar to how Tavon Austin will have to be used

well seeing the terms on Jennings I'd be scared of either deal, but that's as a Rams fan, where injury gambles never pay off
Click to expand...

but show me when he has ever been elite in the NFL. i guess you could make the case for an "elite" kick returner but you don't give up a 1/4/7 and give a $67 mil contract for a KR.
 
S

squicken

Member
FrenchMovieTheme said:
but show me when he has ever been elite in the NFL. i guess you could make the case for an "elite" kick returner but you don't give up a 1/4/7 and give a $67 mil contract for a KR.
Click to expand...

Final 8 games of 2011 + First 8 games of 2012

1280 yards receiving

230 yards rushing

11 total TDs

Pretty damn elite to me
 
R

Rorschach

Member
squicken said:
18m guaranteed, 27m over 3 years. It's high for sure. He's worth it if healthy. Obviously HUGE if

edit: Harvin is an elite player. But as a WR, not elite. Have to find a way to get him touches. Similar to how Tavon Austin will have to be used

well seeing the terms on Jennings I'd be scared of either deal, but that's as a Rams fan, where injury gambles never pay off
Click to expand...

That "HUGE if" is the reason you don't guarantee him 18m unless there's an injury clause.
 
F

FrenchMovieTheme

Member
squicken said:
Final 8 games of 2011 + First 8 games of 2012

1280 yards receiving

230 yards rushing

11 total TDs

Pretty damn elite to me
Click to expand...

if you pro-rated that as you did he wouldn't even be in the top 10 for WR's with those numbers. you also conveniently leave out that he averaged about 11 YPC in that time span... which would rank about 75th in the league for WR/RB/TE's who qualified.

but again, if you say he's elite then he must be! one time he took a little screen pass and went 50 yards for a TD! elite!
 
E

eznark

Banned
^ lol what?

Rorschach said:
That "HUGE if" is the reason you don't guarantee him 18m unless there's an injury clause.
Click to expand...

I think the last $9m is an injury out. Sounds like its actually $27m if he is healthy. So when he is 34 if they want to cut him they better hope he is hurt.
 
M

MechDX

Member
Aaron Wilson ‏@RavensInsider
Source says Texans were closer to $5 million per year with Ed Reed, not $6 million to $7 million avg. he's looking for. Talks to continue.

Retweeted by John McClain
Click to expand...

Even though the Texans haven't done shit so far at least they are not overpaying old n busted Reed anymore than they have to
 
F

FrenchMovieTheme

Member
I reported on Total Access: #49ers OLB Aldon Smith underwent surgery for a torn labrum a few weeks ago. Was on Injury Report for 5 weeks.
Click to expand...

i knew there was something wrong with him aside from just justin smith not being there (or not being 100%)
 
S

squicken

Member
FrenchMovieTheme said:
if you pro-rated that as you did he wouldn't even be in the top 10 for WR's with those numbers. you also conveniently leave out that he averaged about 11 YPC in that time span... which would rank about 75th in the league for WR/RB/TE's who qualified.

but again, if you say he's elite then he must be! one time he took a little screen pass and went 50 yards for a TD! elite!
Click to expand...

Not pro-rated. Last 8 games of his 2011 season + first 8 of 2012. 16 full games. 1500 yards from scrimmage and 11 TDs isn't elite to you?

Rorschach said:
That "HUGE if" is the reason you don't guarantee him 18m unless there's an injury clause.
Click to expand...

Well Percy has his own giant issues and he's making more than Jennings. I agree with you. Despite how good and important Amendola had been to the Rams, even at 5-6m he just wasn't worth the risk. But the WR FA market is just brutal. Very rarely do good ones make it. Teams shopping have to spend a lot on big risks. It's why I don't get why people aren't going after Cruz
 
F

Futurevoid

Member
squicken said:
But the WR FA market is just brutal. Very rarely do good ones make it. Teams shopping have to spend a lot on big risks. It's why I don't get why people aren't going after Cruz
Click to expand...
If the WR FA market is brutal, what makes you think adding a draft pick on top of a massive contract becomes MORE enticing for teams? Not only that but a first round pick (even worse before the new CBA when it cost a first AND a third). There's a reason the RFA market is usually dead...
 
C

cdyhybrid

Member
FrenchMovieTheme said:
uh, the vikings used him exactly as you described his strengths. he's not an elite WR and i don't even think you would argue that he is.



i like how you leave out that the vikings had the best RB in the league. most elite WR's would take advantage of that. also, that "awful" QB got the vikings to the playoffs without percy "elite WR" harvin. the vikings were 5-2 without harvin, 5-4 with him.... so yeah, definitely an elite WR!



lol what? so you already know how each and every draft pick will turn out? you should be hired by an NFL team!
Click to expand...

So what's the threshold for being "elite" then? 2k yards from scrimmage as the only offensive option on the team? :jnc

And Harvin is a better player than any WR in this draft. I can guarantee you that.
 
F

FrenchMovieTheme

Member
squicken said:
Not pro-rated. Last 8 games of his 2011 season + first 8 of 2012. 16 full games. 1500 yards from scrimmage and 11 TDs isn't elite to you?
Click to expand...

but you're picking and choosing games and parts of each season. and how many touches to get 1500 yards? this isn't about percy not being a dynamic player and someone who can add value to the team. i would have loved to have him on the niners at a reasonable $$$ and not giving up all those picks but to call him an elite player in the league is ridiculous. he's not elite.

when i use the word elite, i would say top 5 or at least top 10. is he a top 10 wr? no. top 10 offensive player? no. top 10 player? no.
 
F

FrenchMovieTheme

Member
cdyhybrid said:
So what's the threshold for being "elite" then? 2k yards from scrimmage as the only offense option on the team? :jnc

And Harvin is a better player than any WR in this draft. I can guarantee you that.
Click to expand...

uhhhh 2000 yards from scrimmage? where is that coming from? his career numbers? only offensive option? did i imagine adrian peterson?

you don't know that harvin is better than any WR in this draft because none of the WR's in this draft have played in the NFL.
 
C

cdyhybrid

Member
FrenchMovieTheme said:
but you're picking and choosing games and parts of each season. and how many touches to get 1500 yards? this isn't about percy not being a dynamic player and someone who can add value to the team. i would have loved to have him on the niners at a reasonable $$$ and not giving up all those picks but to call him an elite player in the league is ridiculous. he's not elite.

when i use the word elite, i would say top 5 or at least top 10. is he a top 10 wr? no. top 10 offensive player? no. top 10 player? no.
Click to expand...

Name 10 offensive players better than him. Non-QBs.
 
G

Godslay

Banned
Peypey going in raw...

ESPN

Tom Brady's cellphone lit up early this morning with a series of text message notifications. By the time he removed his silk Prada sleep mask and checked his phone, he had 11 texts from Denver Broncos quarterback Peyton Manning.
"They were all just pictures of him throwing short passes to Wes [Welker]," said Brady. "Little five, six, seven-yard crossing patterns. It was tough to see. What a terrible way to start the day."

Brady's wife, model Gisele Bundchen, said Manning twisting the knife about acquiring the services of his rival's best receiver was even crueler because "Tommy had only been asleep for about an hour. He had been up crying all night about not being able to play with Wesley anymore. I tried to tell him that Wesley is terrible and can't catch, but you know how boys are with their friends."

Each photo Manning sent got more provocative. The first photo was just the quarterback and his new possession receiver shaking hands. The last one was of a 10-yard completion on a crossing pattern in the end zone, both players smiling and shirtless, with the caption: "2013-14 SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!"

"That really hurt Tommy, because he and Wesley always liked to pretend that they won Super Bowls," said Bundchen. "They never did together, of course, but what imaginations!"

The texts sent by Manning are similar to 2006 when he sent Brady a 4-foot by 6-foot portrait of himself holding for Adam Vinatieri, with one hand on the ball and other hand making a thumbs-up sign.

"I have that hanging in our west wing portrait gallery," said Brady. "Betrayal aside, it is actually a beautiful painting. Even on cruel prank portraiture, Peyton Manning demands the best and spares no expense. I have to respect that."
Click to expand...
 
S

squicken

Member
FrenchMovieTheme said:
but you're picking and choosing games and parts of each season. and how many touches to get 1500 yards? this isn't about percy not being a dynamic player and someone who can add value to the team. i would have loved to have him on the niners at a reasonable $$$ and not giving up all those picks but to call him an elite player in the league is ridiculous. he's not elite.

when i use the word elite, i would say top 5 or at least top 10. is he a top 10 wr? no. top 10 offensive player? no. top 10 player? no.
Click to expand...

With Percy, that's about the best you can get of 16 straight games of him playing. When on the field, and not being a pain in the ass, he is a top 15 skill position player

Futurevoid said:
If the WR FA market is brutal, what makes you think adding a draft pick on top of a massive contract becomes MORE enticing for teams? Not only that but a first round pick (even worse before the new CBA when it cost a first AND a third). There's a reason the RFA market is usually dead...
Click to expand...

If I was a Vikes fan, I would rather have given Cruz the same money and bought a young player with an injury free past for the 1st. Would have never given a first and a third for Wallace b/c he was/is sort of a one trick pony
 
F

Futurevoid

Member
cdyhybrid said:
Name 10 offensive players better than him. Non-QBs.
Click to expand...
Calvin Johnson
Larry Fitzgerald
Adrian Peterson
Arian Foster
Ray Rice
AJ Green
Julio Jones
LeSean McCoy
Rob Gronkowski
Brandon Marshall

Some young and still proving it (and I intentionally left Giants off of that list so bias wouldn't enter into the equation), others have been proving it for years and earned the reputation but all players I would take over Harvin given his history. Yes even Marshall. There's no question he's dynamic and I actually like the move for the Seahawks even after the contract after giving it some thought. You guys seem to be in that "win now" space but I think you're reaching a bit in ranking him as some Top 10 player offensive player. Top 15? Maybe...
 
C

cdyhybrid

Member
Futurevoid said:
Calvin Johnson
Larry Fitzgerald
Adrian Peterson
Arian Foster
Ray Rice
AJ Green
Julio Jones
LeSean McCoy
Rob Gronkowski
Brandon Marshall

Some young and still proving it (and I intentionally left Giants off of that list so bias wouldn't enter into the equation), others have been proving it for years and earned the reputation but all players I would take over Harvin given his history. Yes even Marshall. There's no question he's dynamic and I actually like the move for the Seahawks even after the contract after giving it some thought. You guys seem to be in that "win now" space but I think you're reaching a bit in ranking him as some Top 10 player offensive player. Top 15? Maybe...
Click to expand...

I'd say the highlighted ones are debatable and the italicized ones have their own issues. We have no idea whether Fitz still has it and we might never find out, and Gronk is more injury prone than Harvin is.

Edit: You can't see the italics since it's a quote. I italicized Fitz and Gronk.
 
E

eznark

Banned
cdyhybrid said:
I'd say the highlighted ones are debatable and the italicized ones have their own issues. We have no idea whether Fitz still has it and we might never find out, and Gronk is more injury prone than Harvin is.

Edit: You can't see the italics since it's a quote. I italicized Fitz and Gronk.
Click to expand...

Lol, where would you have put him ten days ago?
 
D

Dutch Gronk

Banned
cdyhybrid said:
I'd say the highlighted ones are debatable and the italicized ones have their own issues. We have no idea whether Fitz still has it and we might never find out, and Gronk is more injury prone than Harvin is.

Edit: You can't see the italics since it's a quote. I italicized Fitz and Gronk.
Click to expand...

Gronk had 2 unlucky freak Injuries. Gronk is far superior to Harvin
 
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