A good QB elevates the talent around him. Can Flacco do that? I think so. Honestly, this should have been his second SB appearance. Possibly third. Each year, his WR's have dropped the ball in the AFC Championship, literally.
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NFL Offseason Thread 2013 - Here comes the wait
- Thread starter DeaconKnowledge
- Start date
A good QB elevates the talent around him. Can Flacco do that? I think so. Honestly, this should have been his second SB appearance. Possibly third. Each year, his WR's have dropped the ball in the AFC Championship, literally.
Is your cousin/brother (I forget) going through with that idea you mentioned before?
yankeehater
Member
I do agree with this. They have a good core, but they do need pieces beyond just a QB.
BaltimoreLarry
Member
It's my friend, but yes, he's going through with it.
But this question is for a project I'm putting together.
Lee Chaolan
Member
He was a rookie last year. In college he did nothing but shotgun. He gets freaking Pat Shurmur and Brad Childress in his first year.
Second year in the NFL, he gets Norv Turner who's an excellent OC, Chud a good offensive mind. Get the guy some more talent (actual WRs), a system that works better to his talent, bring in someone to Battle him for the Job to bring the best out of him, and suddenly he's not as terrible as you think he is.
I don't care who the player is, you give them more than a year.
Agreed, they have cap space to sign a couple guys, but they won't go crazy, as they shouldn't.
Aaron Rodgers is about two months younger than Weeden.
yankeehater
Member
Weeden is almost Phillip Rivers age.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
The Ravens are at the end of their window. Flacco was good enough to get them to a Super Bowl as a piece of a dominant team; will he be able to get them there as the Star of a so so one?
Ozzie knows that. He's been very clear that he's not going to waste money locking people up. Deal Flacco, use the robbery to reload, and draft a QB when the quality improves.
Not if I'm the new regime coming in I don't. He failed. Move on fast. Don't throw another year down the drain on a hail mary hope that the assholes you just fired were correct.
Unless they want to tank. Then start Weeden. I don't think there is a QB around who will make them worse.
yankeehater
Member
How many years did you need to see that Leaf or Jbust sucked?
Bolt Vanderhuge
Member
I've heard good things about hover.com. I think the promo they did with Idle Thumbs is still up at hover.com/wizard.
Lee Chaolan
Member
Weeden was not worse than those two guys, not even close! This year under better coaching will show his true mettle.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
Which they should. What's the rush? No QB they bring in is gonna win them the Super Bowl next year. QB is just one of the pieces they need to replace. Keep Weeden and wait.
Lee Chaolan
Member
The QB pool this year is depressing. it's another reason to see what you have in Weeden. Cleveland needs a QB with a big arm, which is what he has. See if Norv's system fits him better. It may be moot, as they'll bring in someone to compete with him that very well could beat him out for the job. We'll see.
Why?
I thought the NFL had a policy in place so that the "poison pill" contract that is so popular in the NBA wont happen?
For those that don't know: poison pill contract is when another team makes some crazy offer that the other team just cant match due to salary limitations.
What's weird to me about CLE is why Grossi has such hatred for Lombardi. I don't think he's anything special, but after Holmgren's reign, wouldn't anyone look better? I mean Holmgren chose Weeden b/c he thought that being older somehow made him more pro-ready. It's such a stupid and faulty premise
I'm not as down on Weeden as everyone else seems to be. Pat Shurmur really is bottom tier when it comes to play-calling and just philosophy in general. When his teams run a two minute offense, the QB has to get the play from the sideline. He's such a control freak that he won't even let his QBs audible. It's madness.
BlackGhost
Banned
Hello friends, looks like we're all talking about the Browns in here. I like this kinda thread. I probably won't chime in cause I'll work myself up, instead I think I'll head off to get some things done and go to class.
#2013BrownsDreamTeam
#2013BrownsDreamTeam
Lee Chaolan
Member
You do realize they play outdoors, right? In Cleveland? In the AFC North? There's 3 other teams there with cold weather too? The system they're implementing is more downhill stuff. Colt's Noodle arm doesn't cut it, he had his chance to show this all too well, and that was with the West coast system.
*Chest Bump*
Alligatorjandro
Banned
Leave it to the Browns to draft a 30 year old QB.
Lee Chaolan
Member
Leave it to Holmgren. and he's gone
Nicely said. Weeden can actually audible now. In OSU, he didn't even huddle. Some crap, play in from the sideline. Guy was a rookie. Give him one more year to see whatcha got.
Pretty much, but they've lacked the two most important things for years: coaching and a QB. Granted they've been pretty good defensively, it still has been the offense holding them back. I do like the pairing of Chud-Norv so if they can find a quality QB or if they can develop Weeden, it will be a big lift.
Ravens do have excellent talent on that team offensively, but Flacco did finally perform better in the post-season. The Browns have a good, young RB, one WR who has a bright future in Josh Gordon, but still need another wideout and they'll probably add another tight-end. Chud has loved throwing to his TE's ever since his Charger days with Gates. Cameron has room to grow but its a great opportunity for him.
Leave it to the Jags for drafting Sunshine from Remember the Titans.
awaits schaub comment......3...2....
DeaconKnowledge
Member
I agree with you, in a way.
Browns are getting way ahead of themselves in talking about QBs. They have nothing at receiver. Whatshihsface was a poor coach, but they only had one receiver who could catch. Flacco needs athletes to throw to. You can't jam him in there with those bums and Alligator arms Wallace and expect results.
Keep Weeden, let him flop about for a year, upgrade your skill guys and try again next year in the draft when there's better talent around.
Flacco will be the best available QB on the market for the next two years. That's why I'd jump on him if I needed a QB. He is only 27, has played above average most of his career and completes 60% of his passes.
You don't need a particularly strong arm to operate a Turner offense. That's never been the case. Isolation reads, a quick delivery and medium range accuracy are going to be more important than airing it out. Lots of intermediate routes that demand on-time and accurate throws (which is why Rivers was so garbage once his arm crapped out).
That said, they have essentially zero receivers on the team at this point so making any assumptions about their ability to attack defenders downfield is a bit premature.
You don't need a particularly strong arm to operate a Turner offense. That's never been the case. Isolation reads, a quick delivery and medium range accuracy are going to be more important than airing it out. Lots of intermediate routes that demand on-time and accurate throws (which is why Rivers was so garbage once his arm crapped out).
That said, they have essentially zero receivers on the team at this point so making any assumptions about their ability to attack defenders downfield is a bit premature.
Goro Majima
Kitty Genovese Member
Leaf is probably the biggest bust of all time and JaWalrus is the most expensive bust of all time.
Weeden doesn't have the character issues of those guys so giving him one more year with some decent coaches isn't an awful idea.
BlackGhost
Banned
Schuabs pretty good, okie time for me to really leave.
hopefully when I come back the browns talk will still be going on, or I'll just start it back up again <3
Alligatorjandro
Banned
Still in your Vince Young phase?
Lee Chaolan
Member
yankeehater
Member
Reid didnt let Mcnabb call audibles for a long ass time and even then I believe it was very limited. Shurmur is a Reid guy so maybe he believes the same thing. I totally agree with you thought that it was insane to draft a 30 year old QB on the basis that he would step right in and play well since he was older.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
I agree with you. Only thing is the Browns need more pieces to properly contend. Flacco will crash and burn with what they have now. Rats put the pieces Flacco needed to be successful around him. Browns have none of that.
Browns aren't going to be a threat for at least another two years anyway.
Lee Chaolan
Member
Yeah, poor Johnny snow. Always rooted for him with the Bears. He's not that old, so there's a chance he can come back?
Weeden will be wearing adult diapers by then.
I strongly disagree there. That division is a fucking mess. Their line is solid apart from RG and they have a strong defense as well as long as Haden lays off the drugs and they find a OLB for the 3-4. Bring in a QB, draft a guard, sign an OLB and they are definitely contending for that shitty divisional title.
Between Gordon and Cameron I think the Browns have enough weapons that could legitimately develop in the passing game if given a QB that they don't need to kill themselves to find a WR.
Really though, I don't know why you'd clean house, throw out the deadbeat tenants but let their flea infested dog stick around.
fwiw I like Josh Gordon too. I think he'd be a 2nd round pick this year and they got to have him an extra year
Yeah if that is Reid's system then I guess it explains it. But to run a 2 minute drill and have the QB looking over for plays is so stupid. Could argue it limits the QB b/c his decision making is never stressed early in his development
Yeah if that is Reid's system then I guess it explains it. But to run a 2 minute drill and have the QB looking over for plays is so stupid. Could argue it limits the QB b/c his decision making is never stressed early in his development
Alligatorjandro
Banned
Alex Smith would be a nice fit in Cleveland.
^ Agreed. My target list would be Smith, Flacco, Moore in that order were I Chud.
Or you could argue that given what he had seen in practice, Shurmur felt Weeden was wholly unequipped to make those decisions.
Or you could argue that given what he had seen in practice, Shurmur felt Weeden was wholly unequipped to make those decisions.
joke goes here, but he did the same thing in STL with Bradford. It's his system. QB runs the plays that are called
DeaconKnowledge
Member
I've said for years that Browns are good in the trenches. It's their skill positions. They shored up RB, but their receiving corps is still trash. Josh Gordon emerged as the number one receiver because he was the only one who could catch the balls thrown to him.
Flacco needs athletes. Flacco had a high completion percentage, but it's a smokescreen. He had two big physical receivers who could bail him out and pull down those high passes he threw under pressure.
AFC North is ripe, but it will stay that way for another season or two. Steelers are reloading, Rats are at the end of their run, and The Bengals are the Bengals. Why commit to Flacco now? Part of me thinks you're just trolling the Clowns.
amishpriest99
Member
I feel like the Browns have more pressing needs than QB anyway given what's available. The cost for someone like Flacco is just too high for them.
BlackGhost
Banned
I would argue that Josh Gordan could of been one of top Wrs taken in this class. Greg little really started to come on towards the end of season, without the stress of him being number 1. Add one more guys say maybe wallace and you have a pretty good group. As for TE I still think thats a big issue well have to address, get that Cameron bullshit out of face until he does something.
Also you have to factor in Trich in the pass game
Also alot of Weeden cock riders in here, forreal this time goodbye I'm leaving
Also you have to factor in Trich in the pass game
Also alot of Weeden cock riders in here, forreal this time goodbye I'm leaving
Because:
Brandon Weeden
Thaddeus LEwis
Colt McCoy
Jake Delhomme
Seneca Wallace
Brady Quinn
Derek Anderson
Ken Dorsey
Charlie Frye
Old Trent Dilfer
Old Jeff Garcia
Kelly Jolcomb
Luke McCown
Tim Couch
In the last decade. Flacco may not be a world beater but he gives you 5+ years of consistency at the most important position in sports.
That makes absolutely no sense. You like just pulling shit out of your ass?
DeaconKnowledge
Member
Consistently mediocre. This is the best we've seen of Flacco when he had a team built around him. Do you expect the same from him when he has trash?
Jake Delhomme was consistent with he Panthers too.
Alligatorjandro
Banned
Remember when VY snapped and went crazy?Thats you now.
amishpriest99
Member
Consistently mediocre is a massive, massive step up.
Flacco was much better in 09 and 10. He was very good this year as well. He's never been bad. The Browns have a very good pass pro line and some young weapons. If they get a solid guard (lots available in FA by the way) to shore up their run blocking they'll have a very, very good running attack. There is nothing trash about that team (now that they've cleaned out the FO) except their QB play.