Support NeoGAF

[msdstc]

The mass damage control by the haters is hilarious. At times you just accept that it happened and move on... then it's like it settles in you see all the GOAT talk in news media and the articles written and it just gets ya. Everyone hates a winner , and the pats are world champs for the 4th time under Bill and Brady.

 

[Godslay]

You need some sort of stability to be that dominant. Like, you need a GOAT coach to have that kind of success.

Absolutely.

I've learned the hard way that its a coaches league.

Look at the Bucs on their Superbowl run. Same players (almost exactly the same squad iirc) different coach, transformed into a Superbowl team.

John Fox, given the keys to a Ferrari, wreaks that shit harder than that dude in Wolf of Wall Street.

Can't underestimate the head of the snake so to speak.

 

[Konka]

Offseason

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

May Milana save us from this petty bickering.

I know right, this is insufferable and something must be done

 

[bob_arctor]

The mass damage control by the haters is hilarious. At times you just accept that it happened and move on... then it's like it settles in you see all the GOAT talk in news media and the articles written and it just gets ya. Everyone hates a winner , and the pats are world champs for the 4th time under Bill and Brady.

Eh, everybody hates a winner, true, but most everyone hates the Patriots, win or lose. You guys are just unlikeable. Add to that the specter of cheating and Brady will never be considered GOAT by the majority, especially over Joe Cool.

 

[LevelNth]

Wow it's next to impossible to find HQ highlights of the Hawks losing their shit and fighting at the end.

 

[cdyhybrid]

Montana doesn't lose the SB with one of the best offenses ever.

This too.

I feel like you're just trying to troll people right now, because if you're legitimately trying to make a rational argument, you're embarrassing yourself.

I'm not. I've stated my argument clearly numerous times, but apparently that's not enough?

Let's ignore the TD Brady threw with 2 minutes left.

Jesus christ, you guys are all really grasping at straws here.



#Fact

There is only one person that can claim the title of GOAT. Everything matters.

 

[MetalFearSolid]

Absolutely.

I've learned the hard way that its a coaches league.

Look at the Bucs on their Superbowl run. Same players (almost exactly the same squad iirc) different coach, transformed into a Superbowl team.

John Fox, given the keys to a Ferrari, wreaks that shit harder than that dude in Wolf of Wall Street.

Can't underestimate the head of the snake so to speak.

Godslay check out this out it is old, but it shows why I never liked Fox as a coach.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...ncos-were-lackadaisical-in-super-bowl-xlviii/

 

[Konka]

I know right, this is insufferable and something must be done

 

[ShaneB]

Frank Tarkenton once went 5-20 63 yards and 3 int

Sounds like my Madden stat line.

 

[Alligatorjandro]

Tom Brady might not be the best but he is top 2-3.

 

[Dutch Gronk]

This too..

Brady never would have lost if he was on the Niners in that era.

If JFK wasn't murdered, he would have started WW3 with Russia.

If monkeys had bigger dicks, they would rule the world.


See what all these and your statement have in common? Nobody knows this shit for sure because it's all hypothetical.

 

[cdyhybrid]

Tom Brady might not be the best but he is top 2-3.

I never said otherwise. He's just not #1.

Brady never would have lost if he was on the Niners in that era.

If JFK wasn't murdered, he would have started WW3 with Russia.

If monkeys had bigger dicks, they would rule the world.


See what all these and your statement have in common? Nobody knows this shit for sure because it's all hypothetical.

I'm going off what's happening on the field. The GOATs all made clutch plays that would have lost them the game if those plays were not made.

What happens if Jordan misses the shot? The Bulls lose. Period. What happens if Brady doesn't score the go-ahead TD? Who knows? Maybe the defense scores on an INT return (and sure enough they got a pick on that drive)? Is that Brady's fault? No, but tough shit. The barrier of entry to GOAT-dom is a high one.

 

[Dutch Gronk]

I never said otherwise. He's just not #1.

How many more Super Bowls does he need to win to be the #1 ?

 

[Godslay]

Manning can't hold Brady's jockstrap. Get over it. That ship has sailed a long time ago and that gap is just becoming a canyon at this point.

First of all, whatever you are looking for you won't find it and I won't give it to you.

Secondly, my point was there is nuance to the argument.

Has Brady had a more successful career? No doubt. Is he a better QB than Manning/Marino/Rodgers? I personally don't think so.

Manning doesn't have to hold anyone's jockstrap. His individual awards as a QB hold their own against anyone in the history of the game. No matter how you contort any number.

By this logic Montana was merely average compared to the others. Nobody legitimately believes Marino is better than Montana.

Same situation as Brady/Manning. Better career in terms of team achievements, versus better individual QB.

Both can exist, and in fact they do.

 

[Futurevoid]

So Charger center Nick Hardwick is retiring.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/02/report-chargers-center-nick-hardwick-to-retire/

 

[jakncoke]

Sounds like my Madden stat line.

Impressive Shane.

 

[Bread]

How many more Super Bowls does he need to win to be the #1 ?

He doesn't need another sb ring, he just needs a memorable moment.

 

[Dutch Gronk]

He doesn't need another sb ring, he just needs a memorable moment.

But does it need to be in the Super Bowl?

 

[ShaneB]

Impressive Shane.

I do try.

 

[Bread]

But does it need to be in the Super Bowl?

No, but it must be in the last minute of the game and he cannot kneel the ball after.

 

[Alligatorjandro]

You know whats memorable? Coming back from 10 points downs on the leagues best defense.

 

[msdstc]

I never said otherwise. He's just not #1.

Opinions sir. I never would state definitively who the goat is especially since there are all different eras, I just think some of the asinines ESPECIALLY your argument for iconic moments are absurd. Those iconic moments and these trophies flat out don't exist without brady. Adam hit a chipshot against the panthers after Tom led them straight down the field with no time left. David Tyree has one of the most iconic moments of all time therefore he's better than calvin johnson.

Either way Brady has cemented himself as a top 3-2-1 QB and he will forever be brought up in those conversations the same way Joe Cool is, the same way elway fans do it, so on so forth. He has the regular season stats, he has the wins, he has the superbowl and playoff stats, he has an absurd win percentage, he's never had a compliment of GREAT receivers, although I love how hard the guys we have work. The best group was in 07 and they were a play away from perfect. Cases can be made and a lot will share that opinion. You guys telling yourselves the cheating thing, or the lack of "iconic moments" (flat out wrong, but is what it is) are only fooling yourselves.

 

[Tom Penny]

No, but it must be in the last minute of the game and he cannot kneel the ball after.

I'm pretty confident he's the best punting QB in the league.

 

[cdyhybrid]

How many more Super Bowls does he need to win to be the #1 ?

He'd need zero if he had one or two plays like The Shot or The Catch or Tiger's shot.

As it is right now, he needs one more minimum. Then I could see the more rings than Joe Montana argument. Don't know if I'd agree (would depend on context), but I can respect that argument.

Opinions sir. I never would state definitively who the goat is especially since there are all different eras, I just think some of the asinines ESPECIALLY your argument for iconic moments are absurd. Those iconic moments and these trophies flat out don't exist without brady. Adam hit a chipshot against the panthers after Tom led them straight down the field with no time left. David Tyree has one of the most iconic moments of all time therefore he's better than calvin johnson.

Either way Brady has cemented himself as a top 3-2-1 QB and he will forever be brought up in those conversations the same way Joe Cool is, the same way elway fans do it, so on so forth. He has the regular season stats, he has the wins, he has the superbowl and playoff stats, he has an absurd win percentage, he's never had a compliment of GREAT receivers, although I love how hard the guys we have work. The best group was in 07 and they were a play away from perfect. Cases can be made and a lot will share that opinion. You guys telling yourselves the cheating thing, or the lack of "iconic moments" (flat out wrong, but is what it is) are only fooling yourselves.

Now you're just being purposely obtuse. I never said stats were irrelevant. I said if you're comparing people who have comparable production (which Joe and Brady do, accounting for the eras they played in), you have to look towards something else to break the tie. Big time, pantheon-level plays/moments are that tiebreaker. Joe has them, Brady doesn't.

 

[Dutch Gronk]

You know whats memorable? Coming back from 10 points downs on the leagues best defense.

But he didn't make the game-clinching interception.

So he basically did nothing.

 

[Talon]

Wow it's next to impossible to find HQ highlights of the Hawks losing their shit and fighting at the end.

It's on NFL.com.

 

[msdstc]

First of all, whatever you are looking for you won't find it and I won't give it to you.

Secondly, my point was there is nuance to the argument.

Has Brady had a more successful career? No doubt. Is he a better QB than Manning/Marino/Rodgers? I personally don't think so.

Manning doesn't have to hold anyone's jockstrap. His individual awards as a QB hold their own against anyone in the history of the game. No matter how you contort any number.

Same situation as Brady/Manning. Better career in terms of team achievements, versus better individual QB.

Both can exist, and in fact they do.

Well Manning and Brady's stats aren't in a vacuum sooooo it's not that cut and dry. That being said Nobody puts marino above montana(except the choice few fanboys) and nobody will put Manning above Brady (except for some fanboys), plain and simple. Manning got to 55, after Brady got to 50. He's also garbage in big games, and was garbage the entire superbowl run year. It's not just bad luck or circumstance, and it goes all the way back to his college years. Your disregarding that as a factor in terms of skill is hilarious, because Toms ability to recover has always been an amazing trait of his. It played huge in the ravens game, and it played even bigger last night.

 

[Dragon]

Hahahahaha this is so dumb wow

Bread I know we mutually hate each other. But I applaud this post wholeheartedly. Cdy has gone off the deep end.

 

[Spinluck]

Tom Brady might not be the best but he is top 2-3.

Luck

 

[Dutch Gronk]

It's on NFL.com.

 

[msdstc]

But he didn't make the game-clinching interception.

So he basically did nothing.

David Tyree is the GOAT receiver. The helmet catch is arguably the best catch of all time! When does he get into the hall?

Hey guys Johnny Pesky and Pesky's pole! He's the GOAT fellas!

 

[Godslay]

Godslay check out this out it is old, but it shows why I never liked Fox as a coach.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...ncos-were-lackadaisical-in-super-bowl-xlviii/

I remember that article.

I will admit I gave Fox the benefit of the doubt. I was lulled by the success. Looking back though, IF a Shanahan type coach ran that team we would have been consistently more competitive.

I was boiling hot during that Colts game. More so than any other loss. I don't mind getting beat, I do care about being lazy and unprepared. Which is what happened. 2 out of the 3 coaches had 1 foot out the door, and we had to watch that stinking pile of shit disguised as coaching. It was pathetic.

I'm in the same situation with Kubes. I will give him the benefit of the doubt, but I hope I can detect trends sooner than later.

 

[cdyhybrid]

Bread I know we mutually hate each other. But I applaud this post wholeheartedly. Cdy has gone off the deep end.

Yep, saying Joe Montana is the greatest QB of all time is going off the deep end. You're right.

 

[Slo]

Hey guys, what'd I miss?

 

[Tom Penny]

Luck

He's still far behind Russell and Jimmy.

 

[Talon]

Nobody bring up Neuheisel or Jerramy Stevens

 

[LyleLanley]

He'd need zero if he had one or two plays like The Shot or The Catch or Tiger's shot.

Would Jordan and Woods not be considered the GOATs of their respective sports if they didn't have those moments?

 

[Dragon]

Yep, saying Joe Montana is the greatest QB of all time is going off the deep end. You're right.

Do you have a reading disability? I never said anything of the sort.

 

[zychi]

But he didn't make the game-clinching interception.

So he basically did nothing.

With that logic, Deion Sanders is GOAT

 

[msdstc]

Do you have a reading disability? I never said anything of the sort.

I asked the same exact question earlier. It's further proof he's trolling.

 

[cdyhybrid]

Would Jordan and Woods not be considered the GOATs of their respective sports if they didn't have those moments?

Probably not. I mean, Bill Russell has 11 rings. If Jordan doesn't have his clutch, legendary moments, can you really make the argument for him convincingly over guys like Russell, Magic, etc.? I don't think you can.

Also holy FUCK that .gif is murdering my Chrome.

Nobody bring up Neuheisel or Jerramy Stevens

They're both clowns and shitty people. Well, it's not fair to compare him to the human trash that is Jerramy Stevens, but yeah.

I asked the same exact question earlier. It's further proof he's trolling.

You just completely ignored my answer and I'm the one who's trolling. Alright.

 

[Alligatorjandro]

For the Patriot haters

Well, everybody hurts sometimes
Everybody cries
Everybody hurts sometimes
And everybody hurts sometimes

 

[jakncoke]

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 2m2 minutes ago
Super Bowl XLIX was watched by an average of 114.4 million viewers, making it the most-watched telecast in television history.

 

[MetalFearSolid]

I remember that article.

I will admit I gave Fox the benefit of the doubt. I was lulled by the success. Looking back though, IF a Shanahan type coach ran that team we would have been consistently more competitive.

I was boiling hot during that Colts game. More so than any other loss. I don't mind getting beat, I do care about being lazy and unprepared. Which is what happened. 2 out of the 3 coaches had 1 foot out the door, and we had to watch that stinking pile of shit disguised as coaching. It was pathetic.

I'm in the same situation with Kubes. I will give him the benefit of the doubt, but I hope I can detect trends sooner than later.

I don't know if Kubes can do any better, I remember when he went down with that heart injury for the Texans, and his player didn't seem inspired they blew their lead and lost the game.

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

How many more Super Bowls does he need to win to be the #1 ?

Doesn't have to win it, but if he takes the Rams to a Super Bowl then he'll have my vote.

 

[Talon]

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 2m2 minutes ago
Super Bowl XLIX was watched by an average of 114.4 million viewers, making it the most-watched telecast in television history.

Not quite true. Most-watched American telecast.

Olympics opening ceremonies get around 1.5 billion viewers nowadays.

Beijing's got 2 billion, I think.

 

[Trey]

How different the tone of these discussions would be if one play goes the other way? That's the most interesting thing about the game.

Amazing sport.

 

[Mrbob]

I find it funny when Irvin realizes it is a bad idea to fight Gronk.

 

[msdstc]

Probably not. I mean, Bill Russell has 11 rings. If Jordan doesn't have his clutch, legendary moments, can you really make the argument for him convincingly over guys like Russell, Magic, etc.? I don't think you can.

Also holy FUCK that .gif is murdering my Chrome.



They're both clowns and shitty people. Well, it's not fair to compare him to the human trash that is Jerramy Stevens, but yeah.



You just completely ignored my answer and I'm the one who's trolling. Alright.

LOL because that's what makes Mike the GOAT. I'm just going to stop at that, because clearly we can agree to disagree on what matters to making somebody great.


edit- can't help myself, but brady having every superbowl decided by 4 or less points is the definition of clutch, especially considering every single one of them was done with a 4th quarter game winning drive.