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NFL Offseason Thread 2015 |OT| All of our teams suck!

Godslay

Banned
Well Manning and Brady's stats aren't in a vacuum sooooo it's not that cut and dry. That being said Nobody puts marino above montana(except the choice few fanboys) and nobody will put Manning above Brady (except for some fanboys), plain and simple. Manning got to 55, after Brady got to 50. He's also garbage in big games, and was garbage the entire superbowl run year. It's not just bad luck or circumstance, and it goes all the way back to his college years. Your disregarding that as a factor in terms of skill is hilarious, because Toms ability to recover has always been an amazing trait of his. It played huge in the ravens game, and it played even bigger last night.

So what is the defining measurement? Why do some declare Barry Sanders the GOAT, yet he has no SB wins?

Why isn't Terrell Davis in the HOF despite putting up the best postseason stats of any RB in the history of the game?

Clearly you base it all on a team wins in the postseason, where the majority of the time the more complete team wins.

As for stats, Manning is better overall than Tom. There really isn't an argument to be made there.

One can be a better QB and have less Superbowl wins. Just like Barry was amazing without the Superbowls.

I don't see why you can't accept one can be better at a position, but less successful championship wise in a team game. Superbowls arent the end all be all, otherwise TD would have a bust already.
 
montana was absolutely perfect in superbowls. no one will ever come close to matching him. i am a biased person i suppose and while i won't use the hyperbole saying "zomg there is no way you can even begin to compare brady/manning/etc. against montana!" i will say that montana will win out in every argument with two unbiased parties
 
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Deleted member 102481

Unconfirmed Member
Jimmy Grappolo got his 1st superbowl ring as a rookie. He already is the most accomplished QB from the 2014 draft
 

Dragon

Banned
montana was absolutely perfect in superbowls. no one will ever come close to matching him. i am a biased person i suppose and while i won't use the hyperbole saying "zomg there is no way you can even begin to compare brady/manning/etc. against montana!" i will say that montana will win out in every argument with two unbiased parties

No one can seriously argue otherwise between Brady and Montana or Montana and anyone in Super Bowls. But saying that Brady throwing a TD with two minutes left versus one minute left somehow makes a big difference as far as a 'signature moment' is where I draw the line. Brady led his team back from 10 points down in the fourth quarter of the SB against the league's best defense. Cdy I hope is just continuing to troll.
 

cdyhybrid

Member
LOL because that's what makes Mike the GOAT. I'm just going to stop at that, because clearly we can agree to disagree on what matters to making somebody great.

I've responded to you numerous times (and you seem to be ignoring those posts) saying that legendary plays and moments are the tiebreaker given comparable production. I never said those things alone are what makes him the GOAT.

No one can seriously argue otherwise between Brady and Montana or Montana and anyone in Super Bowls. But saying that Brady throwing a TD with two minutes left versus one minute left somehow makes a big difference as far as a 'signature moment' is where I draw the line. Brady led his team back from 10 points down in the fourth quarter of the SB against the league's best defense. Cdy I hope is just continuing to troll.

The most memorable play of this game is Butler's interception for the vast, vast majority of football fans. It always will be. It's the signature play of the game.
 

MRSA

Banned
tumblr_mmq6zuZw2L1sqi85io1_400.gif
 

Tom Penny

Member
montana was absolutely perfect in superbowls. no one will ever come close to matching him. i am a biased person i suppose and while i won't use the hyperbole saying "zomg there is no way you can even begin to compare brady/manning/etc. against montana!" i will say that montana will win out in every argument with two unbiased parties

He's the best SB QB. Pey Pey and Marino are better than him..
 

Dragon

Banned
The most memorable play of this game is Butler's interception for the vast, vast majority of football fans. It always will be. It's the signature play of the game.

I don't see how that has anything to do with Brady. You're arguing semantics and subjective crap when I'm arguing actual facts. Frankly you're just being plain dumb!
 

cdyhybrid

Member
I don't see how that has anything to do with Brady. You're arguing semantics and subjective crap when I'm arguing actual facts. Frankly you're just being plain dumb!

Guess what arguing who the greatest player of all time is, is.

A bunch of semantics and subjective crap! Holy shit.
 

Godslay

Banned
I don't know if Kubes can do any better, I remember when he went down with that heart injury for the Texans, and his player didn't seem inspired they blew their lead and lost the game.

Yeah. That's not encouraging. The one thing I do appreciate is that he took them to respectable status from nothing. Had Schoob not lost his shit, they would have been an AFC contender.

We do know that the run game should improve, OL play will get better (apparently Magazu was terrible), and Kubes has won it all but in a different capacity.

I'm cautiously hopeful, but alot depends on if Manning comes back and is healthy. If so we can contend. The core of the team is still good. Plus Wade is a good hire.
 

Dragon

Banned
Guess what arguing who the greatest player of all time is, is.

A bunch of semantics and subjective crap! Holy shit.

You really are dumb then. Because I'm not arguing that. I already have said that Montana is the best SB QB ever. I'm disagreeing with you about two things. One, a player doesn't need a 'signature play' in order to be the best at something. And two, your definition of a 'signature play' is asinine.
 

msdstc

Incredibly Naive
So what is the defining measurement? Why do some declare Barry Sanders the GOAT, yet he has no SB wins?

Why isn't Terrell Davis in the HOF despite putting up the best postseason stats of any RB in the history of the game?

Clearly you base it all on a team wins in the postseason, where the majority of the time the more complete team wins.

As for stats, Manning is better overall than Tom. There really isn't an argument to be made there.

One can be a better QB and have less Superbowl wins. Just like Barry was amazing without the Superbowls.

I don't see why you can't accept one can be better at a position, but less successful championship wise in a team game. Superbowls arent the end all be all, otherwise TD would have a bust already.

Because Brady and mannings stats once again are not in a vacuum. Indoors Toms stats are very similar to Peytons. His accuracy goes up, his ypg go up, etc. On top of that Peyton played a good majority of his career with Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne catching passes. This is a very common argument, but it holds water for a reason. Once Tom got real receiving threats in 07 his numbers skyrocketed past Manning. There is no defining skill, it's anm aggregate of your skills. Tom is better at some, Peyton is better at some. When it comes to clutch and big game presence it's not even a debate. On top of having comparable stats throughout their careers (especially adjusted for the dome) Brady has more success. The team he fielded this year had plenty of talent... so did Peytons this year and last year. The pats defense was far from dominant, the difference maker was Tom, something Peyton has never really been in terms of winning superbowls. That is what the point of the game is if you didn't realize, win the game.
 

cdyhybrid

Member
You really are dumb then. Because I'm not arguing that. I already have said that Montana is the best SB QB ever. I'm disagreeing with you about two things. One, a player doesn't need a 'signature play' in order to be the best at something. And two, your definition of a 'signature play' is asinine.

1) They don't need a signature play, but if their production on the field is comparable with other contenders, you need something to break the tie for them to be considered better. Something like a legendary play.

2) A signature play is one that people will remember forever. A play that stands out when the rest of the memories of the game fade. How is that asinine?
 

Talon

Member
GOAT arguments are the fucking worst.

Who gives a shit?

Otto Graham was the best because 6 championships, duh. Ignore the fact that he was only playing when slow ass white dudes stumbling through mud was considered athletic.
 

msdstc

Incredibly Naive
1) They don't need a signature play, but if their production on the field is comparable with other contenders, you need something to break the tie for them to be considered better. Something like a legendary play.

2) A signature play is one that people will remember forever. A play that stands out when the rest of the memories of the game fade. How is that asinine?

Ok and that's your opinion, for some reason the stylistic flash is enough to sway your opinion. For others the fact that Tom has a higher winning percentage, scored more points per game, been to more superbowls, set all the superbowl records, will be enough to break the tie.
 

Tom Penny

Member
If you focus on the achievements of the individual, they are.

If you look at their careers as a whole, probably not.

You can't handle this apparently.

Sorry the GOAT QB conversations don't include QB's that have the most one and done's and most playoffs losses in history. You can't handle this apparently.
 

Godslay

Banned
Because Brady and mannings stats once again are not in a vacuum. Indoors Toms stats are very similar to Peytons. His accuracy goes up, his ypg go up, etc. On top of that Peyton played a good majority of his career with Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne catching passes. This is a very common argument, but it holds water for a reason. Once Tom got real receiving threats in 07 his numbers skyrocketed past Manning. There is no defining skill, it's anm aggregate of your skills. Tom is better at some, Peyton is better at some. When it comes to clutch and big game presence it's not even a debate. On top of having comparable stats throughout their careers (especially adjusted for the dome) Brady has more success. The team he fielded this year had plenty of talent... so did Peytons this year and last year. The pats defense was far from dominant, the difference maker was Tom, something Peyton has never really been in terms of winning superbowls. That is what the point of the game is if you didn't realize, win the game.

Clutch is not a defined stat.

Peyton has better stats in almost every single category, not just some.

Peyton has been consistently better statistical year in and year out.

His best years have come in Denver, which if you didn't know is outdoors. Dome doesn't give you a stats boost, QB still has to play the game.

Just like Brady has more team Superbowl wins than Peyton does, there is no gray area between the stats of Peyton and Brady. Peyton's are clearly better to the independent observer.

Brady has more team achievements, Peyton is a better individual QB. There's nothing wrong with that.
 

Dragon

Banned
1) They don't need a signature play, but if their production on the field is comparable with other contenders, you need something to break the tie for them to be considered better. Something like a legendary play.

2) A signature play is one that people will remember forever. A play that stands out when the rest of the memories of the game fade. How is that asinine?

1) Why? This is like the clutch argument against Alex Rodriguez back in the day. Brady's production in the SB is the second best ever.
2) Because one minute of game clock, according to you, makes a difference in a 'signature play'. Brady was 13 for 15 with 2 TDs in the fourth quarter of a Super Bowl. I'll just say that's a signature quarter for him and move on.
 
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Deleted member 102481

Unconfirmed Member
Theres some gif on page 191 that kills chrome so badly
 

Godslay

Banned
Sorry the GOAT QB conversations don't include QB's that have the most one and done's and most playoffs losses in history. You can't handle this apparently.

They don't include players whose team Superbowl wins are held as questionable due to a perceived era of cheatin either. So I guess that makes Montana the GOAT, and after that it's Bradshaw.

I guess both Brady and Peyton will have to try again.
 

cdyhybrid

Member
GOAT arguments are the fucking worst.

Who gives a shit?

Otto Graham was the best because 6 championships, duh. Ignore the fact that he was only playing when slow ass white dudes stumbling through mud was considered athletic.

There's nothing to talk about now until the Combine.

Word on twitter is New England baited Seattle to throw

They did. If you go by the book, everything that NE showed in their formation points to throwing a pass.

And Bevell took the bait like the sucker he is.

Ok and that's your opinion, for some reason the stylistic flash is enough to sway your opinion. For others the fact that Tom has a higher winning percentage, scored more points per game, been to more superbowls, set all the superbowl records, will be enough to break the tie.

It's not just stylistic flash. It's making a difficult play that is the difference between winning and losing. Jordan misses The Shot and the Bulls lose.

Anyway, I never said you weren't entitled to your opinion, I just said that if you surveyed most football fans in this country, you'd probably find that more of them agree with me than would with you.

1) Why? This is like the clutch argument against Alex Rodriguez back in the day. Brady's production in the SB is the second best ever.
2) Because one minute of game clock, according to you, makes a difference in a 'signature play'. Brady was 13 for 15 with 2 TDs in the fourth quarter of a Super Bowl. I'll just say that's a signature quarter for him and move on.

1) You're right, but it's second-best to the guy you're (not you specifically, unless you do actually think Brady is the GOAT) trying to rank him above.
2) You completely misinterpreted that post. The point was that the game is not over if Brady doesn't score the go-ahead TD. There's still time left. If Butler doesn't make that interception and Lockette catches a TD, the game is pretty much over. That's why the interception was the signature play, because it effectively ended the game.
 
Once again, back to back to Super Bowl appearances does not happen consecutively in this era. Teams that reach the Super Bowl barely go back the next year. Go look at history before you respond with some dumb shit. Do your googles.

literally the ONLY time back to back superbowl appearances happen, in ANY era, is when they are consecutively.... am i going crazy here?
 
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