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NHL 2011-2012 Offseason thread of Cash Rules Everything Around Me

B

brucewaynegretzky

Member
I just wanna repost this since it seems relevant again now that we're talking about cap circumvention and "competitiveness" again. Gonna just repost:

brucewaynegretzky said:
We don't know anything about how the new CBA will approach this. You can be certain that big market teams near the cap (read: Philly) will make SURE that they are protected in the new agreement. One thing that I think often gets lost in the "Union vs. Management" storyline in these negotiations is that the different teams have VERY different motivations depending on their market strength. This is why more comprehensive profit sharing would likely create a an environment where a CBA could be reached easily. The problem is the most IMPORTANT teams don't want that.

We can sit here and talk about how important a "competitive" league is, but here's the dirty little truth that no one really admits to: At the end of the day it really is just BETTER if the big market teams have ways to exploit their position to a competitive advantage. The question is to what degree do we want to allow that to happen while still growing the sport outside those few small markets. It's a delicate balancing act.

Marvie in particular likes to talk about how small market teams need to be competitive and at equal footing. Then talk about how the union is evil because owners are somehow ENTITLED to profitable business. The funny thing is those two things don't play out AT ALL in collective bargaining. A market acting under NORMAL economic forces would have the big market teams CRUSHING the small market ones because the economic support of their fanbases (aka demand) would give them the ability to crush smaller teams. T

The bottom line of all of this is it actually is a really interesting look into a unique way to handle what would normally be an illegal monopoly through collaboration between labor (which in another weird turn is also the product) and management.

I really do think this CBA will come out without any real major changes to how the league runs. The players are happy to see revenues growing, and they can see the effects in FA every year when the market jumps drastically. (See e.g., Ville Leino) The owners are for the most part happy, and REALLY should be focusing their energies towards better LEAGUE management to improve their bottom lines. Situations like the one in Glendale hurt EVERYONE.

Ok, rant over. I think I've mentioned a few times I'm a bit of a labor law geek so this really interests me. Sorry to anyone (Marvie) if this comes off as an attack. I'm not arguing in any way that measures to increase parity are a BAD thing because there's certainly a legitimate point to be made that parity also increases revenue as well. I'm more pointing out that it requires something OTHER than a typical market analysis because it really is a unique situation.

Rant really over: Bottom line to Tabris' initial point that I completely ignored is, "Big market teams will make sure functioning under a 70.2m cap won't be a detriment to them in the future and will put in mechanisms that give them flexibility because they have the most bargaining leverage out of all the teams at the table."

Seriously, apologies for the wall-o-text.
Click to expand...
 
C

calder

Member
Solo said:
With that kind of cap circumventing BS allowed, why even bother with a cap at all? Rich teams STILL have the deck stacked way in their favor.
Click to expand...

The cap still works well for the large majority of players, it's only the really top guys who have the leverage - and make enough per season - that it becomes worth it for teams to add contract length in order to reduce the cap hit. It's a risk for the teams (god forbid Luongo one day forget whatever wink-wink deals were given about when he'll retire and decide to play out the string, the team would have no recourse) that they are willing to run only for the franchise type players.

It's still absurd and I'm sure the new CBA will close the loophole, because while it's a subtle thing I think it does affect competitive balance a bit as some teams are simply unwilling to do it and as a result richer/dumber teams are able to overpay short term.
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
I have a horrible, horrible feeling Holland is about to majorly risk the future success of this franchise so Rick Nash can come to Detroit.
 
K

KernelPanic

Member
cube444 said:
Yes. Other players will now consider them as possible UFAs or by removing their NMC/NTC to go there because they got a lot more enticing today.
Click to expand...

Too bad they only have < $3M cap space with 21 players signed.

And that's assuming the cap stays the way it is, it'll most likely go down in the new CBA.
 
F

Fei

Member
I can't believe some Red Wings fans are complaining about these ridiculous front-loaded contracts. Detroit pretty much started this with Zetterberg (7.4, 7.8, 7.8, 7.8, 7.5, 7.5, 7.5, 7.5, 7, 3.4, 1, 1). Franzen and Kronwall are similar.
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Fei said:
I can't believe some Red Wings fans are complaining about these ridiculous front-loaded contracts. Detroit pretty much started this with Zetterberg (7.4, 7.8, 7.8, 7.8, 7.5, 7.5, 7.5, 7.5, 7, 3.4, 1, 1). Franzen and Kronwall are similar.
Click to expand...

Perhaps you should ask how we actually feel about those contracts as well.

I hate them. I think it's unfair and doesn't do the NHL any good.
 
F

Fei

Member
Plinko said:
Perhaps you should ask how we actually feel about those contracts as well.

I hate them. I think it's unfair and doesn't do the NHL any good.
Click to expand...

Fair enough.

Given what the playing field is today, I think Suter is worth that type of contract. I think that's too high of a cap number for Parise (probably by a full million), but the impact of landing both of them could really help Minnesota going forward.
 
S

sefskillz

shitting in the alley outside your window
Cake Boss said:
Parise's contract is front-loaded: $12M, 12M, 11M, 9M, 9M, 9M, 9M, 9M, 8M, 6M, 2M, 1M, 1M"
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Not quite right due to signing bonuses...

im sure these numbers arent exact due to the cap manipulation around how you can decrease salary from one year to the next, but probably a little closer to this:

1. 7 + 10 mil signing bonus
2. 7 + 10 mil signing bonus
3. 7 + 5 mil signing bonus
4. 7
5. 7
6. 7
7. 7
8. 7
9. 7
10. 6
11. 2
12. 1
13. 1
 
C

CrazedArabMan

Member
Fei said:
I can't believe some Red Wings fans are complaining about these ridiculous front-loaded contracts. Detroit pretty much started this with Zetterberg (7.4, 7.8, 7.8, 7.8, 7.5, 7.5, 7.5, 7.5, 7, 3.4, 1, 1). Franzen and Kronwall are similar.
Click to expand...

Uh I never complained about those contracts, seems to be people of other teams.
 
R

RC

Banned
Last thing I wanted was a stronger NW. Oh well, at least games againest Minny might actually be worth watching now.
 
S

sefskillz

shitting in the alley outside your window
i cant wait til we get to the end of these contracts and see these players. suter is a guy who can play at age 37-40, but does he want to go through the daily grind for the same $ per game as kids on their entry level contracts?
 
C

cube444

Member
WildTroll.png
 
K

KingHenrik30

Member
sefskillz said:
Not quite right due to signing bonuses...

im sure these numbers arent exact due to the cap manipulation around how you can decrease salary from one year to the next, but probably a little closer to this:

1. 7 + 10 mil signing bonus
2. 7 + 10 mil signing bonus
3. 7 + 5 mil signing bonus
4. 7
5. 7
6. 7
7. 7
8. 7
9. 7
10. 6
11. 2
12. 1
13. 1
Click to expand...

They don't make 7 during the season those years. They make 2. so that plus the 10 mill bonus is 12 salary total for that season.
 
C

cube444

Member
Mike Colligan &#8207;@MikeColligan
Shero said #Pens never got to a point where either player wanted to come to Pittsburgh and came back to them to seriously negotiate
Click to expand...

Really makes you realize how much BS was going around on Twitter with the Parise "leaning towards Pens" etc.
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
cube444 said:
Really makes you realize how much BS was going around on Twitter with the Parise "leaning towards Pens" etc.
Click to expand...

To be fair, Shero's statement may be BS as well.
 
C

cube444

Member
Suter:

"I got a phone call from Dany Heatley ... our friendship goes back. He called and said he really wanted me to come and just expressed how great an organization it is, and how they’re very close to winning ... that’s all the contact I really had."
Click to expand...

Sorry Sef. :lol
 
C

cube444

Member
Plinko said:
To be fair, Shero's statement may be BS as well.
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Well, considering Parise said NJ would have been his second choice and how Suter wanted to stay in the West, I highly doubt it.

Pierre LeBrun &#8207;@Real_ESPNLeBrun
Lamoriello said he reached out to Ryan Suter camp as well but said Suter didn't have interest in going East
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R

Red_Man

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
Foreign Jackass said:
I'd be really surprised if Bergevin doesn't try to get a trade going sooner than later to try and make a big splash in his first year.

So either Bobby Ryan or Rick Nash ends up here, and we're overpaying like dumbasses.
Click to expand...
Don't see this happening man, he's been pretty calculating, and he's not going to make a big splash just to do it. Habs aren't a contender now, and Nash / Ryan won't change that, giving up our prospects for either would be really, really stupid. Montreal will have one of the best, if not the best defensive cores in the league in 3-4 years, with Price, Patches, Kristo, Galchenyuk, Colberg, etc all maturing. Stay the course and things will be fine, and I think he gets it.
 
A

Alucard

Banned
cube444 said:
Really makes you realize how much BS was going around on Twitter with the Parise "leaning towards Pens" etc.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's likely a hivemind mentality that these guys feed off of. One says that Parise is favouring the Pens, and everyone follows suit. "Insiders" are largely bullshitters. Why would a GM talk to a fucking reporter and let them know how negotiations are going? Wouldn't that potentially jeopardize how the player in negotiations felt about the team and their privacy policies? Stupid.

Btw, I'm hearing that Paul Martin will be traded by tomorrow.
 
C

cube444

Member
Alucard said:
Yeah, it's likely a hivemind mentality that these guys feed off of. One says that Parise is favouring the Pens, and everyone follows suit. "Insiders" are largely bullshitters. Why would a GM talk to a fucking reporter and let them know how negotiations are going? Wouldn't that potentially jeopardize how the player in negotiations felt about the team and their privacy policies? Stupid.

Btw, I'm hearing that Paul Martin will be traded by tomorrow.
Click to expand...

Who's tweeting that now? :lol
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
CrazedArabMan said:
I don't really want Carle, and apparently Detroit doesn't have interest in Semin, so shoot me now I guess.
Click to expand...

Hey, we're getting Helm back from injury so that's basically the same thing as bringing in a big-name free agent.

--Ken Holland
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Hilarious how so many haters that are Wings fans are going to be missing Hudler's production next year.
 
C

cube444

Member
According to Lebrun:

The New York Rangers, Pittsburgh, Detroit, San Jose, Philadelphia and Carolina, according to sources, all have interest in Nash, who controls his fate via a no-movement clause.
Click to expand...
 
C

CrazedArabMan

Member
Only good news is that I guess Doan's agent has called Detroit seeking an offer. So I guess we may get Doan, however if we do we need to get Semin as well, having those two would boost my confidence, the only problem then is trading our over filled number of forwards for a good defensemen. Come on Holland, do or die right here.

Shane Doan, Phoenix &#8211; The power forward's agent has called the Red Wings several times the past couple of days, seeking an offer, and with Parise off the market, Detroit will make a pitch for Doan.
Click to expand...

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2012/07/red_wings_limited_options_incl.html

Tabris said:
And we have Garrison. SUCK IT DETROIT :p
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I have a feeling you are going to regret that in terms of money seeing as how his production went way down once teams knew what to do against him.
 
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