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NHL 2011-2012 Offseason thread of Cash Rules Everything Around Me

P

Pochacco

asking dangerous questions
iLLmAtlc said:
Yeah it's 100% like that unless I'm unbelievably mistaken.
Click to expand...
Correct.
Shea Weber has essentially signed a 14-year contract with Philly or Nashville; if it's Nashville, he cannot be traded in the 1st year. This is very interesting! You gotta think that Nashville will match. They just have to. But maybe they can't.

Also, Weber probably doesn't care either way. If he wanted out of Nashville, he would've held out for free agency next summer (by signing a 1-year contract with the Preds). 14 years with Philly is fine with him. 14 years with Nashville is also fine with him. $100+ million and a loooong contract that will probably be illegal under the next CBA is also fine with him.
 
S

Smiley90

Stop shitting on my team. Start shitting on my finger.
Fei said:
Never knew that one year rule. Christ. Guess it's put up or shutup for the Preds then.
Click to expand...

They had 80 mio in revenue and -7.5 Mio losses last year. If Weber's salary goes from 4.5 to 26, that will increase their losses to like 25 mio (given Suter left). Not sure they can take that.
 
S

Socreges

Banned
Fei said:
Weber is one of the few players worth burning 4 firsts for, IMO. I actually think it's a really great move by Philly, unfortunately.
Click to expand...
Not every team can afford to let go of four 1sts. Philly will be drafting late in the first round for the next few years, I'd guess, and a big dman could put them over the top, so I think it will work for them. They also have a very good group of young forwards. But many teams would be stupid to do the same. eg, Toronto gave up just two 1sts for Kessel, but I'd say that was a mistake since they ended up being #2 (Seguin) and #9 (Hamilton).

[edit] shit, they got Jared Knight with the 2nd round pick, too

Fleeced.
 
S

SpectreFire

Member
Pochacco said:
Correct.
Shea Weber has essentially signed a 14-year contract with Philly or Nashville; if it's Nashville, he cannot be traded in the 1st year. This is very interesting! You gotta think that Nashville will match. They just have to. But maybe they can't.

Also, Weber probably doesn't care either way. If he wanted out of Nashville, he would've held out for free agency next summer (by signing a 1-year contract with the Preds). 14 years with Philly is fine with him. 14 years with Nashville is also fine with him. $100+ million and a loooong contract that will probably be illegal under the next CBA is also fine with him.
Click to expand...
That's the interesting part to me, Weber has to know that Nashville might match, if he really wanted out, why would he take the risk? To me, it sounds like he really doesn't care about location. He's willing to stay in Nashville for the right price, but Nashville might've been lowballing him like mad and this is him forcing their hand.
 
R

Red_Man

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
Philly is one of the few teams that can afford to give up the amount of picks to do this. Exactly what needed happen to spice up this off season.
 
I

iLLmAtlc

Member
SpectreFire said:
That's the interesting part to me, Weber has to know that Nashville might match, if he really wanted out, why would he take the risk? To me, it sounds like he really doesn't care about location. He's willing to stay in Nashville for the right price, but Nashville might've been lowballing him like mad and this is him forcing their hand.
Click to expand...

Weber probably realizes this is the last chance he'll get paid. He probably wants 100 million but Nashville has been hesitant to move past the 13/90 they put for Suter. Maybe he's tired of the drama and just wants it finished with, once and for all.

But yeah I agree. This is probably an indication that he might want to be in Nashville more than it seems. Either that or from his negotiations he has a good feeling that this might be outside of Nashville's budget.
 
S

Socreges

Banned
SpectreFire said:
That's the interesting part to me, Weber has to know that Nashville might match, if he really wanted out, why would he take the risk? To me, it sounds like he really doesn't care about location. He's willing to stay in Nashville for the right price, but Nashville might've been lowballing him like mad and this is him forcing their hand.
Click to expand...
Or he's confident that they can't afford to match it. Really, the 14+12M seems to be designed to screw with Nashville's finances.

But yeah, worst case scenario he gets paid crazy money either way.
 
F

Fei

Member
Socreges said:
Not every team can afford to let go of four 1sts. Philly will be drafting late in the first round for the next few years, I'd guess, and a big dman could put them over the top, so I think it will work for them. They also have a very good group of young forwards. But many teams would be stupid to do the same. eg, Toronto gave up just two 1sts for Kessel, but I'd say that was a mistake since they ended up being #2 (Seguin) and #9 (Hamilton).
Click to expand...

Agreed - definitely impacted by circumstances around the team. But if you ask me, Weber has been the best or second best defenseman the last two years. If he keeps it up he should be a Norris candidate for basically the next decade, and those 4 firsts would be a small price.
 
P

Pochacco

asking dangerous questions
SpectreFire said:
That's the interesting part to me, Weber has to know that Nashville might match, if he really wanted out, why would he take the risk? To me, it sounds like he really doesn't care about location. He's willing to stay in Nashville for the right price, but Nashville might've been lowballing him like mad and this is him forcing their hand.
Click to expand...
Absolutely. 14 years is a big commitment. The odds of Nashville matching are (my guess) 50-50 right now.
No player would risk wasting his entire career with an unwanted franchise to those odds. Of course he could request a trade after year 1 blah blah blah, but players don't like that type of instability (not to mention that without a NTC, there's nothing stopping Poille from trading him to frigging Columbus).

Anyway, I'm just happy that something interesting happened. Free agency has mostly been boring and the CBA talks are depressing and scary.
 
S

SpectreFire

Member
Why do I have a feeling that Edler is out there reading this and thinking:

XwOrJ.gif
 
A

Acid08

Banned
WOWOWOWOW

Finally something fucking cool happens. Replacing Pronger with Weber....Philly is really going for it.


Smiley90 said:
Trending now:

#CheatingIsOkayIf
Preds
#Weber
Paul Holmgren
NSH
Nashville
#NameYourVaginaAfterAMovie

wtf at the surround tags.

also:

DarrenDreger
I'm trying to go back to bed. More info coming in. Philly, NYR, Detroit and San Jose were big players in Weber trade scenarios.
Click to expand...

WUT
 
S

Smiley90

Stop shitting on my team. Start shitting on my finger.
Great comment from reddit:

"Holmgren: Shea, we here in Philly really want you to be a cornerstone of our franchise, to stick around for many years to come.
loud sound of James Van Riemsdyk, Mike Richards and Jeff Carter clearing their throats
Holmgren: awkward laughter"
 
S

Socreges

Banned
And to think NHL-GAF was just on the verge of creating a handful of new offspring communities to fill the void. False alarm, guys. Thank you, Philly.
 
S

Smiley90

Stop shitting on my team. Start shitting on my finger.
Question: Why didn't Nashville take Weber to Arbitration a long time ago to prevent him from getting offer sheeted? Were they just working on a trade and trying to get that done before it would come to an offer sheet?
 
S

Socreges

Banned
Smiley90 said:
Question: Why didn't Nashville take Weber to Arbitration a long time ago to prevent him from getting offer sheeted? Were they just working on a trade and trying to get that done before it would come to an offer sheet?
Click to expand...
Pretty sure a team can't take a player to arbitration in consecutive years. Weber could have requested arbitration himself, but declined to (likely in order to clear way for a trade).
 
S

Smiley90

Stop shitting on my team. Start shitting on my finger.
Socreges said:
Pretty sure a team can't take a player to arbitration in consecutive years. Weber could have requested arbitration himself, but declined to (likely in order to clear way for a trade).
Click to expand...

Oh I forgot they already did that last time and you can only do it once in a player's career from the team's side - right. nvm.
 
R

Red_Man

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
Guy from Montreal is saying he heard Holmgren did this once he found out they lost the trade battle for Weber, if true that makes this even ballsier.
 
S

Solo

Member
I seriously think its better if Nash doesn't match. Why bother matching? Weber signed the OS, so he wants out. Do you really want a future Rick Nash on your team, Preds? Take the 4 1st rounders and that $100M and run.
 
K

KingHenrik30

Member
Solo said:
I seriously think its better if Nash doesn't match. Why bother matching? Weber signed the OS, so he wants out. Do you really want a future Rick Nash on your team, Preds? Take the 4 1st rounders and that $100M and run.
Click to expand...

Unless he signed it as a way of negotiating
 
Z

Zod the Bear

Member
KingHenrik30 said:
what the fuck did I just wake up to?

Also, why the hell wouldn't Nashville match that? Weren't they going to offer 100 mill to Suter?
Click to expand...

It's something like 26 mil for a year and a day, which could hold the ownership up.

Still, if they match they just need to take the overall amount and payment structure from the Flyers' offer, without a NTC right? So they lock him down for a year and eat some money, then trade him for a giant return next year.

Only way they don't match is if they end up agreeing not to in exchange for sending some 1st's back for roster players.
 
S

Socreges

Banned
Zod the Bear said:
It's something like 26 mil for a year and a day, which could hold the ownership up.

Still, if they match they just need to take the overall amount and payment structure from the Flyers' offer, without a NTC right? So they lock him down for a year and eat some money, then trade him for a giant return next year.

Only way they don't match is if they end up agreeing not to in exchange for sending some 1st's back for roster players.
Click to expand...
Nashville doesn't have a very big appetite.
 
K

KingHenrik30

Member
Zod the Bear said:
It's something like 26 mil for a year and a day, which could hold the ownership up.

Still, if they match they just need to take the overall amount and payment structure from the Flyers' offer, without a NTC right? So they lock him down for a year and eat some money, then trade him for a giant return next year.

Only way they don't match is if they end up agreeing not to in exchange for sending some 1st's back for roster players.
Click to expand...

I figured there would be some upfront money like that. Still, if they had 100 mill to give to suter im sure they could give that money to Weber. We'll see.
 
S

sefskillz

shitting in the alley outside your window
KingHenrik30 said:
Also, why the hell wouldn't Nashville match that? Weren't they going to offer 100 mill to Suter?
Click to expand...
as others are saying, the 26 million commitment is the hold up. due to preds revenue they have to offer more structured deals that pay out over the life of the contract because they cant afford to pay these giant lump sum signing bonuses

though, one of the preds major owners had this go down back in october: http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/10/24/cigna-to-buy-healthspring-for-3-7-billion/ so if he's willing to come off it, there's money available.
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
LOL

So a couple weeks ago I make a joke that the Wings should do this exact same thing with Weber and I get blasted on here saying it's impossible, he'll leave after the first year, blah blah blah.

And Philly does it.
 
P

pringles

Member
Smiley90 said:
DarrenDreger
I'm trying to go back to bed. More info coming in. Philly, NYR, Detroit and San Jose were big players in Weber trade scenarios.
Click to expand...
So close to getting both Parise and Suter. We get neither.

We make a big offer for Nash. Howson is not even willing to discuss trading him to Detroit.

Close to landing a trade for Weber. Menstally unstable GM kills that possibility.

Holland: "FUCK THIS FUCKING SHIT"
 
K

KingHenrik30

Member
sefskillz said:
as others are saying, the 26 million commitment is the hold up. due to preds revenue they have to offer more structured deals that pay out over the life of the contract because they cant afford to pay these giant lump sum signing bonuses

though, one of the preds major owners had this go down back in october: http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/10/24/cigna-to-buy-healthspring-for-3-7-billion/ so if he's willing to come off it, there's money available.
Click to expand...

Hey worst comes to worst there are two players on the flyers who can be offersheeted in 2 years!
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
I'm not sure what's more shocking--waking up to this or the fact that Eklund actually got one right.

Also, poor Preds fans. This could crush that franchise.

On the other hand, the bright side is that this could finally open people up to more offer sheets, which I think are perfectly viable and the "unwritten rule" that you shouldn't use them is ridiculous.
 
S

sefskillz

shitting in the alley outside your window
Plinko said:
On the other hand, the bright side is that this could finally open people up to more offer sheets, which I think are perfectly viable and the "unwritten rule" that you shouldn't use them is ridiculous.
Click to expand...
ive got no problem with offer sheets, but combining them with cap circumvention to fuck a small market is an issue. i imagine next CBA will end that
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
sefskillz said:
ive got no problem with offer sheets, but combining them with cap circumvention to fuck a small market is an issue. i imagine next CBA will end that
Click to expand...

Oh, absolutely. I find that ridiculous. I really hope the CBA ends this garbage.

Also, with the CBA coming, wouldn't Philly be screwed for years with this contract?

As for the small market thing, I'd have to imagine that Bettman is absolutely furious Philly went ahead and did this.
 
S

scissorfight

Banned
wow, crazy.

weber's #1 concern has to be that long term deal prior to the next CBA. if nashville matches, he'll worry about where he wants to play long-term later...either way, he's got his cash.

Plinko said:
LOL

So a couple weeks ago I make a joke that the Wings should do this exact same thing with Weber and I get blasted on here saying it's impossible, he'll leave after the first year, blah blah blah.

And Philly does it.
Click to expand...
uh, didn't you suggest a one year, $14mil offer sheet?
 
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