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NHL 2011-2012 Offseason thread of Cash Rules Everything Around Me

Everyone should have seen this coming though when they hired Fehr.

Yep. The players were so stupid to bring him in. MLB signed a new CBA last year and it happened so quick and so easy now that Fehr isnt there to muck things up. The guy is just to much about winning rather then what is best for both sides.
 
But Fehr and the NHLPA said they would agree to continue to play under the current CBA after September 15th. Let the players play and work out a new CBA in the meantime.

But no, Bettman must lock all them out.

This x1000. People need to stop blaming the PA here.

Hell Bettman was even saying the current CBA could be extended a year at some point.

Fehr and the union have done nothing but be professional throughout this process. The NFLPA acted like a bunch of jackasses last year, and the NBAPA did the same. However, I'm actually really impressed with the NHLPA this time. They fucked up last time, but have been VERY reserved about their bargaining tactics. They've even admitted that they were going to make CONCESSIONS despite NHL overall revenue going up. The problem is you have guys like Marvie screaming "BUT NASHVILLE LOSES MONEY AND THEY DESERVE TO BE PROFITABLE!!!!" The problem with that is the PA doesn't negotiate with Nashville. (This is obviously aside from the economic argument that no business should be profitable for solely existing....) They negotiate with the league which is HUGELY profitable. The reason poor teams are poor isn't because of the PA. They're poor because the league is managed poorly and doesn't support its smaller market teams. If the NHL would just fucking fix revenue sharing and stop supporting teams that are sucking money from everyone they wouldn't have to demonize the players.
 
The players want to play under the old system because that system favors them so much. What is there to stop the players from playing all season under the old system and then going on strike the day the regular season ends? It seems the league would be taking all the risk in that case.
 

Heretic

Member
This x1000. People need to stop blaming the PA here.

Hell Bettman was even saying the current CBA could be extended a year at some point.

Fehr and the union have done nothing but be professional throughout this process. The NFLPA acted like a bunch of jackasses last year, and the NBAPA did the same. However, I'm actually really impressed with the NHLPA this time. They fucked up last time, but have been VERY reserved about their bargaining tactics. They've even admitted that they were going to make CONCESSIONS despite NHL overall revenue going up. The problem is you have guys like Marvie screaming "BUT NASHVILLE LOSES MONEY AND THEY DESERVE TO BE PROFITABLE!!!!" The problem with that is the PA doesn't negotiate with Nashville. (This is obviously aside from the economic argument that no business should be profitable for solely existing....) They negotiate with the league which is HUGELY profitable. The reason poor teams are poor isn't because of the PA. They're poor because the league is managed poorly and doesn't support its smaller market teams. If the NHL would just fucking fix revenue sharing and stop supporting teams that are sucking money from everyone they wouldn't have to demonize the players.
This is an easy statement to make coming from someone who's team has a big hockey market.

Man, would I would give to even make $100,000 a year... These guys make millions and still complain.
 
This x1000. People need to stop blaming the PA here.

A healthy NHL benefits both the PA and the NHL. If many teams are going under and struggling to stay in the black and not be competitive (which will decrease ticket sales) it's less jobs and less money for the players.

BOTH sides need to ensure a healthy NHL, none of this arguing over who gets the bigger piece of the pie.

But Fehr and the NHLPA said they would agree to continue to play under the current CBA after September 15th. Let the players play and work out a new CBA in the meantime.

But no, Bettman must lock all them out.

I've said this before many times, the players will go on strike right before the playoffs if Bettman doesn't lock them out, it's happened in MLB and happened in the NHL.

I'm no fan of Bettman but it's Fehr 101 tactics, Bettman isn't that stupid.
 
And for the Swedish goalies I expect Lindbäck to squeeze in. Lack will probably have so trouble breaking through behind Schneider and Floridas total unwillingness to play Markstrom more is mindnumbling. Otherwise for Sweden I am looking forward to be stacked with stud defenders again(might not be already this Olympics.): Hedman, Karlsson, Larsson, Ekholm, Ekman-Larsson and Rundblad.

It's not unwillingness I think Tallon and co want him to go through a full season load before breaking the big club. Last two seasons he's had knee problems keeping out for large chunks of the season. Hell, in January I think Markstrom would've started for us when we had Theo injured an Clemmer barely treading water. Markstrom was out though with knee issues. Maybe he comes to camp and earns the spot? I think though he gets a final year in the AHL to take a full season as starter before the NHL.
 
This is an easy statement to make coming from someone who's team has a big hockey market.

Man, would I would give to even make $100,000 a year... These guys make millions and still complain.

Hey I agree. I'd LOVE to make that much money.... and I'm pretty sure my student loan collection agency would be happy about it too.

But that doesn't change that management is taking in millions too and could certainly cut the fat in a lot of areas.

The bottom line is that despite owner complaints OVERALL PROFITS have increased since the last CBA. Why the hell should the players agree to take less? The owners are making more money!!!! The ones who aren't are victims of poor league management. Dump the coyotes. Move maybe one other struggling team. (I'd have to see financials to see who's costing the most) And VASTLY improve revenue sharing. Then you don't need the majority of the concessions being required here.

Anyone claiming the current system greatly benefits the players is nuts. They got bent over last time. Player salaries decreased. Why the hell would you tell them to take less when their bosses are taking home more? There are certainly some struggling teams, but the NHL is FAR from struggling. You HAVE to remember who the PA is negotiating with. They're not negotiating with Jamison or the Nashville ownership group. A new more strict CBA would be a GIGANTIC windfall to guys like Snider, Leonsis, the Molsons, and Leafs ownership. They'd basically be getting handed free money just because they shouted about how hard things are despite the fact that they're doing more than fine under the current agreement.
 
Anyone claiming the current system greatly benefits the players is nuts.

So a system where:

players get $12M bonuses (even if there's a lockout) and $100M contracts that last til the players hits the ripe old age of 40 and get to hit free agency at age 27 doesn't benefit the players ??

They got bent over when the CBA was signed years ago but the tables have turned since then.
 

CREMSteve

Member
No, it's a comment on your flawed logic, in which you used past accomplishments (only 1 of them truly NHL on-ice performance related) to say that someone is a first pairing NHL defenseman. I could list Redden's past accomplishments as well, and they are way more impressive than that list you gave me, but nobody in their right mind would say that RIGHT NOW, he is a legitimate first pairing guy. You pretty much stepped right into what I assumed you'd do.

BTW, being an ironman doesn't make you an top pairing defenseman.

C'mon man, be reasonable, lol.

He was the no. 1 defenceman on Florida. He plays on the top pairing in Calgary.

If Bouwmeester was traded to Detroit tomorrow.... would he play on their top pairing?

Right now, they have:

Ericsson
Kindl
Kronwall
Quincey
Smith
White

I would argue that he and Kronwall would be their top pair.
 
So a system where:

players get $12M bonuses (even if there's a lockout) and $100M contracts that last til the players hits the ripe old age of 40 and get to hit free agency at age 27 doesn't benefit the players ??

They got bent over when the CBA was signed years ago but the tables have turned since then.

That's not a matter of the CBA. There are always going to be ways SOME players get paid large sums of money. Welcome to professional sports. That doesn't mean the market isn't acting rationally. The owners are trying to cap the market far below fair value to increase profits beyond what is economically realistic so they can continue to make shitty managerial decisions and not suffer economic consequences.

EDIT: People need to disconnect themselves from the emotional response of "Wow that athlete gets paid so much to play a game!" from the rational economic response of "What is the fair market value of this job?" Considering owners are willing to pay so much because good players bring in A LOT of money for them (often many multiples more than what they are paying the player) we need to stop demonizing them for trying to act like rational economic actors trying to maximize their salaries in a fair market system.
 
That's not a matter of the CBA. There are always going to be ways SOME players get paid large sums of money. Welcome to professional sports. That doesn't mean the market isn't acting rationally. The owners are trying to cap the market far below fair value to increase profits beyond what is economically realistic so they can continue to make shitty managerial decisions and not suffer economic consequences.

Yes but how much is too much ? At this rate we're going to have Alex Rodriguez contracts being handed out in the not too distant future. There has to be some sort of control until the league is big/rich enough to support such contracts, assuming that's even possible. GMs will always find exploits and loopholes in the CBA, these have to be closed.

There is huge disparity between the rich teams and poor teams in the NHL. You might argue it's not the NHLPA's problem but it is. If those teams collapse, that's less revenue for the league( and the players) not to mention less jobs for the players.

It's in their best interests toe ensure that all teams are healthy and viable(within reason of course, see Phoenix).

Both sides need to remove their heads from their asses, and work out an agreement that's beneficial for them and the future of NHL hockey instead of just trying to cash in for themselves.
 
Yes but how much is too much ? At this rate we're going to have Alex Rodriguez contracts being handed out in the not too distant future. There has to be some sort of control until the league is big/rich enough to support such contracts, assuming that's even possible. GMs will always find exploits and loopholes in the CBA, these have to be closed.

The problem here is the windfall given to big market teams then in terms of undeserved gained profit. Big market teams are acting in a competitive market. If smaller teams can't compete that says something about the market.

There is huge disparity between the rich teams and poor teams in the NHL. You might argue it's not the NHLPA's problem but it is. If those teams collapse, that's less revenue for the league( and the players) not to mention less jobs for the players.

It's in their best interests toe ensure that all teams are healthy and viable(within reason of course, see Phoenix).

This is by far the biggest issue. I would very much argue it isn't the PA's problem. They don't get to negotiate with Snider, Leonsis, and the Molsons. If they got to negotiate with everyone that would be fine, but if the NHL wants its monopoly it needs to operate as one cohesive unit. Teams like Phoenix are a management problem that cost EVERYONE money, hence why revenue sharing is BY FAR the most important issue. Other sports don't have the same disparity issues that the NHL has. Smaller markets are at least still viable. If the NHL wants to continue like this it needs to support those teams from management and not force the players to pay for their shitty deals with Glendale.

Both sides need to remove their heads from their asses, and work out an agreement that's beneficial for them and the future of NHL hockey instead of just trying to cash in for themselves.

What sort of concessions do you want the players to make? They've already pretty much accepted that they're going to have to take some sort of decrease in %. That was always a foregone conclusion. Now the owners are looking to take away essentially 20% of what they were already making AND impose a bunch of restrictions that will make it impossible to cash in before taking on severe risk of injury as a young player. I don't see how the players "have their heads up their asses." They're the ones agreeing to continue playing while negotiating AND to make concessions from the current status quo. The owners are just being assholes. T

To people claiming Fehr is being unreasonable: What should he be agreeing to that he isn't?
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
C'mon man, be reasonable, lol.

He was the no. 1 defenceman on Florida. He plays on the top pairing in Calgary.

If Bouwmeester was traded to Detroit tomorrow.... would he play on their top pairing?

Right now, they have:

Ericsson
Kindl
Kronwall
Quincey
Smith
White

I would argue that he and Kronwall would be their top pair.

He probably would.

That said, I wouldn't trade for Bouwmeester. The addition of Bouwmeester is going to come from giving up a prospect or two and isn't anywhere near a guarantee that it will help our team to the Cup.

Just develop the young guys now. Holland screwed the pooch this offseason to the point where they might as well just develop the youth.
 
The Flyers should be all over Bouwmeester. They desperately need defensive help, and he could still be good in the right situation. Plus I cant imagine having to give up to much since his salary is so high.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
LOL at the news today that Holland is patiently waiting for Holmstrom to make his mind up about whether or not he wants to play.

What an absolute joke.
 
C'mon man, be reasonable, lol.

He was the no. 1 defenceman on Florida. He plays on the top pairing in Calgary.

If Bouwmeester was traded to Detroit tomorrow.... would he play on their top pairing?

Right now, they have:

Ericsson
Kindl
Kronwall
Quincey
Smith
White

I would argue that he and Kronwall would be their top pair.

Just because he plays on the top pairing in Calgary, a crappy team, doesn't make him a top pairing guy. Whatever he did in Florida he hasn't done in 3 years.
 
Just because he plays on the top pairing in Calgary, a crappy team, doesn't make him a top pairing guy. Whatever he did in Florida he hasn't done in 3 years.

Maybe he hasnt been as good because Calgary is such a bad situation. Going to a playoff team in a bigger market might re-energize him and get him to play better.
 

CREMSteve

Member
Just because he plays on the top pairing in Calgary, a crappy team, doesn't make him a top pairing guy. Whatever he did in Florida he hasn't done in 3 years.

You didn't answer the question. Would he play top minutes on Detroit or not? Detroit is not a "crappy team", so it stands to reason that you believe he would not?
 

ShaneB

Member
This is an easy statement to make coming from someone who's team has a big hockey market.

Man, would I would give to even make $100,000 a year... These guys make millions and still complain.

Tried to find the Simpsons clip of Homer and Ned at the football game where Homer states "professional athletes, always wanting more..."
 
Maybe he hasnt been as good because Calgary is such a bad situation. Going to a playoff team in a bigger market might re-energize him and get him to play better.

He played fine in Florida

You didn't answer the question. Would he play top minutes on Detroit or not? Detroit is not a "crappy team", so it stands to reason that you believe he would not?

I don't think he would no.
Again,
Plays on a teams top pair =/= is a top pair dman

Here are some equivalents of what you are saying:

"Steve Mason is a #1 Goaltender"
"Tyler Bozak is a #1 Center"
"Carl Hagelin is a 1st Line LW"
 

DopeyFish

Not bitter, just unsweetened
I hope you're not excited about the possibility of acquiring Bernier. He was arguably worse than a concussed Reimer last season despite playing for the eventual Stanley Cup champs.

Nah man, it's not about acquiring bernier... It's about acquiring hope
 
LOL at the news today that Holland is patiently waiting for Holmstrom to make his mind up about whether or not he wants to play.

What an absolute joke.

We have no room anyways!! We have 16 forwards (including Abby) and Homer would make it 17 with only Brunner and Nyquist who could be sent down and I don't think they are getting sent down. We need to trade some of our depth guys as we have way too many guys for our bottom 6.
 
The problem here is the windfall given to big market teams then in terms of undeserved gained profit. Big market teams are acting in a competitive market. If smaller teams can't compete that says something about the market.

You're absolutely right, but that's the current reality of the situation. They have to live with it, can't just pretend the problem doesn't exist. Not to mention having more teams does benefit the players, obviously not all of them are loaded with $$$ but it's more possibilities. If most or all of those teams can be competitive, then that's more bidders for players during FA which can mean more $$$.



This is by far the biggest issue. I would very much argue it isn't the PA's problem. They don't get to negotiate with Snider, Leonsis, and the Molsons. If they got to negotiate with everyone that would be fine, but if the NHL wants its monopoly it needs to operate as one cohesive unit. Teams like Phoenix are a management problem that cost EVERYONE money, hence why revenue sharing is BY FAR the most important issue. Other sports don't have the same disparity issues that the NHL has. Smaller markets are at least still viable. If the NHL wants to continue like this it needs to support those teams from management and not force the players to pay for their shitty deals with Glendale.

Revenue sharing is an important issue. Somehow I doubt MLSE, Snider, Molsons want to give up any more $$ in revenue sharing. I'm sure they do not like what they're giving up now (rumored to be 7% of top teams pooled revenue).
Other leagues have big TV revenue to count on, if ticket sales drop massively for small market NHL teams, they go down into the shitter.


What sort of concessions do you want the players to make? They've already pretty much accepted that they're going to have to take some sort of decrease in %. That was always a foregone conclusion. Now the owners are looking to take away essentially 20% of what they were already making AND impose a bunch of restrictions that will make it impossible to cash in before taking on severe risk of injury as a young player. I don't see how the players "have their heads up their asses." They're the ones agreeing to continue playing while negotiating AND to make concessions from the current status quo. The owners are just being assholes.

To people claiming Fehr is being unreasonable: What should he be agreeing to that he isn't?

I imagine they'd give up a %, they should just settle on 50/50 nice and even. Owners take financial risks running teams, player contracts are guaranteed.

They can either have 57% of $3B(or less if it drops) or 50% of $5B if league continues to grow.

I don't think the player should have to make too many concessions, it is unfair. By "Heads up their asses" I mean that Fehr just wants to get the most $$$ for his members which is shortsighted. They need to seriously considered the health and future of the league. The NHL is also guilty of this so it's not all on the NHLPA.

I can't claim he's being reasonable or unreasonable until he makes a counterproposal, right now he's been stalling.
 

Razorskin

----- ------

AHAHAHAHA FUCK YOU MARVIE


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calder

Member
So wait.... Doan ISN'T going to the Canucks?

Bwahahaha, going to be awesome if the Coyotes don't move and Doan has to think of a halfway decent excuse to explain why he went somewhere else anyway.


And yeah I'm kinda happy to see a team not move in general but in this case I just can't imagine it's not going to be a disaster if they do stay.
 

Revenant

Member
NHL 13 now has the new and exciting Lockout mode. Now enjoy all the hair pulling, frustrating, ass clenching negotiations. Play as either the commissioner or leader of the NHLPA as you try to get the best deal for your side

Preorder at GameStop to get free dlc "legends" which allows your to play as your favorite Commissioners and nhlpa heads of the past.
 
Bwahahaha, going to be awesome if the Coyotes don't move and Doan has to think of a halfway decent excuse to explain why he went somewhere else anyway.

Just because Jamieson seems to be able to afford to buy the Coyotes doesn't mean he can afford to re-sign Doan.

We can expect a bankruptcy filing from the City of Glendale in the not too distant future as well.
 
NHL 13 now has the new and exciting Lockout mode. Now enjoy all the hair pulling, frustrating, ass clenching negotiations. Play as either the commissioner or leader of the NHLPA as you try to get the best deal for your side

Preorder at GameStop to get free dlc "legends" which allows your to play as your favorite Commissioners and nhlpa heads of the past.

Um.... that sounds kinda cool.... :\

/laborpolicynerd
 

Quick

Banned
NHL 13 now has the new and exciting Lockout mode. Now enjoy all the hair pulling, frustrating, ass clenching negotiations. Play as either the commissioner or leader of the NHLPA as you try to get the best deal for your side

Preorder at GameStop to get free dlc "legends" which allows your to play as your favorite Commissioners and nhlpa heads of the past.

DAY ONE.
 

jred2k

Member
NHL 13 now has the new and exciting Lockout mode. Now enjoy all the hair pulling, frustrating, ass clenching negotiations. Play as either the commissioner or leader of the NHLPA as you try to get the best deal for your side

Preorder at GameStop to get free dlc "legends" which allows your to play as your favorite Commissioners and nhlpa heads of the past.

Throw in a mode where I get to hand out suspensions as Shanny and I'll buy three copies.
 
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