Why should the owners be entitled to less than half of the revenue for a product they produce? How is it fair that the owner shoulders all costs of operation yet aren't guaranteed any level of profit? The players have zero costs yet the players are guaranteed a specific amount through the salary floor. The owners have every right to negotiate for a lower cost for labor.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
NHL 2011-2012 Offseason thread of Cash Rules Everything Around Me
- Thread starter Dastardly Jerks
- Start date
brucewaynegretzky
Member
Sure, but they're also subject to the labor refusing. They're not entitled to half of revenue. They're entitled to whatever the market establishes as a fair profit margin. Labor is a cost. There is no set value for that costs. Many industries have high labor costs which constitute large percentages of expenditures. Sports of one of them because the labor IS the product.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
This is something that almost everyone who argues in favor of the players seems to ignore.
brucewaynegretzky
Member
Um, no. People who argue for their owners are ignoring basic principles of cost associated with running a business. For instance, the owners in Phoenix are NOT entitled to a profit. It is an artificially created market by the league. Florida too. Now the NHL is entitled to keep those markets there sure, but the players shouldn't shoulder the costs of poor management decisions. Also, you have to remember that the NHL is essentially granted a monopoly so they get even MORE leverage than your normal employer and prevent a competitive market for players to work in. Collective bargaining in professional sports works just fine. People can bitch about work stoppages but realistically they're typically not the "fault" of either side and just market forces working themselves out.
EDIT: If you want to see truly fucked up labor markets at work look at public sector employment. Absolute shitshow on BOTH sides there.
The owners also have the right to refuse. What exactly entitles the players to more than half?
Why are the players guaranteed a profit margin while the owners aren't?
Not set value? What about the cap floor?
Simple economics dictates that when your costs(labor in this case) are too high you either lower your costs or you shut down your business.
KernelPanic
Member
After reading what he did in baseball I think he will certainly try. No salary cap but better revenue sharing is what he's hinted at.
Although he has said that what works in one league won't necessarily work in another.
Negotiating tactic is all. Better revenue sharing will happen but the elimination of the cap will not.
brucewaynegretzky
Member
1.) They're not entitled to more than half. They're entitled to bargain for the most they can get. That can be more than half. What do you think the largest cost in most service industries is? Industries like law and accounting have very high personnel costs as well.
2.) You're labeling this just wrong. They're entitled to wages. Profit margins applies to management/someone RUNNING a business. Costs vs. Revenues. This equation doesn't apply to labor. Labor is a cost. Employees aren't running a business.
3.) That would be the bargained for value for the cost.... If that cost was too high why did the owners agree to it in the first place?
4.) Here you need to stop adjusting goalposts. Either the employers are the individual teams or the league. If its the teams then they each need to negotiate with their players individually for costs. If its the league then we need to look to profitability AS A WHOLE. This is where my argument about poor management decisions plays in. The league as a whole is growing in profitability. Therefore the losses of individual teams are irrelevant OR the teams losing money need to convey their concerns better to the group as a whole. But the players are negotiating with THE LEAGUE. Therefore they are entitled to their cut of OVERALL revenue. This is the effect of having a monopoly on professional hockey.
bonesmccoy
Banned
If this Jamison bid is what people suspect it to be (a last ditch gambit to coerce more coinage out of Quebec), what the eff is Bettman going to do with the Coyotes when Goldwater voids the deal?
KernelPanic
Member
I wonder how unified the owners are on that, the rich teams must be getting tired of subsizing disasters like Phoenix (although that might be over soon).
Move them.
KingHenrik30
Member
Go to an Islanders game. You'll see BRENDAN WITT jerseys. Seriously, Isles fans will put any player on a jersey.
KingHenrik30
Member
Show of hands (Posts), what's gonna happen - Full Lockout, Shortened Season, No lockout
GO!
Me - Shortened Season
GO!
Me - Shortened Season
brucewaynegretzky
Member
I'm on record for no lockout.
Rafa=FedKilla
Banned
No lockout, Phoenix stays another year, two expansion teams in next CBA.
TemplaerDude
Member
When does hockey start again?
KingHenrik30
Member
Seattle and Quebec?
yankeehater
Member
Full lockout, Fehr is the 2nd worst person in all of sports behind Boras. No expansion and the Yotes waste another year in AZ.
bonesmccoy
Banned
Well, yes. That's not really what I'm wondering about. It's rumoured that this Jamison deal came up after Bettman through a ridiculous figure at Peladeau, and the latter balked. So after this fails, the league is going to be in an even more serious situation than it was before. Peladeau and his group will be fine waiting for the next NHL franchise to go belly up.
I guess if Bettman expects a strike/lock out to occur, he can use the doomed Jamison deal buy him and Peladeau more negotiating time.
2+ month lockout, shortened season, 2 team expansion to seattle and toronto
Peladeau will be right there waiting for Gary's call when this fails. There isn't really much to negotiate right now. PKP(Peladeau) has already made an offer, he's the only serious buyer, the NHL has said they aren't going to own the team next year, and there are no options left in Phoenix.
No Lockout, 2 extra teams next CBA. Seattle and somewhere else.
BigJonsson
Member
No lockout
No expansion teams
No expansion teams
I hope there won't be a lockout. The only possible advantage of a shortened season would maybe be more intense playoffs with the players having more rest and being able to give more down the stretch.
But yeah, I don't know much about the business side of hockey. Just want to see the guys on the ice.
But yeah, I don't know much about the business side of hockey. Just want to see the guys on the ice.
ZeroGravity
Member
Game 4 of the Calder Cup today at 3 ET. Hope Norfolk can close it out!
BigJonsson
Member
Dirty Admirals
More like the dreaded real admiral.
ZeroGravity
Member
6-1 Admirals, five minutes to go. Dominating finish.
ZeroGravity
Member
Norfolk Admirals complete the sweep to win the Calder Cup. 15-3 in the playoffs, won their last 10 games in a row, 43 of their last 46 overall.
Congratulations. That was truly a dominant performance. The Marlies took care of Rochester, OKC and Abbotsford with ease, and still managed to get swept by the Admirals. That's ridiculous.
That's pretty damn impressive
Marlies only lost because their top 3 players were injured and because last game had a no-goal count. [Proof]
ZeroGravity
Member
Dustin Tokarski's playoff numbers: 12-2, 1.46 GAA, 944 Save%, 3 shutouts. He has to be our goaltender of the future.
He's your best goaltending prospect but I think they go outside the organization to find something. Tampa can't go with Roloson again. Tampa should have run away with the division this year once Washington faltered.
Norfolk had to be one of the best professional hockey teams in their respective leagues in a long time. 43 of 46 games, 28 straight regular season wins to close out the season. They fully deserved it. I also loved Conacher's twitter feed all season. He has been a great signing by Yzerman out of the NCAA. Everytime they won a game, he would write on twitter "We've won X in a row, that's a fluke but X+1 is a streak." or some variation of that.
Oh, and for the people trying to mock the Marlies/Leafs fans, Leaf fans didn't expect to win the series. They have a very young AHL team with a young coach so it's tough to finish 2nd (regardless) especially after losing their top 3 guys in what was a season to remember for the Marlies. Burke really helped built their AHL/farm team up from what it was under JFJ.
Everyone knew Norfolk was probably going to win, but you can imagine, losing a game when it shouldn't have happened, irks them to lose like that. I for one, only care how the Marlies are developing, I'm not that into them. But I would obviously wish them success.
In other news, I can't believe Phoenix will be keeping their team still. Feels like its been forever since Balsillie tried to buy the team from Moyes.
sazabirules
Unconfirmed Member
Cooper is a former lawyer who won titles in the NAHL, the USHL, and now the AHL.
ZeroGravity
Member
Yeah, he won't he the goaltender next season. Likely the backup the season after next when Garon's contract is up. I think Yzerman goes after Bernier or Harding in the offseason, but either way, still glad to have Tokarski waiting in the wings for his eventual shot. He's going to be a good one someday.
I would think he's going to get a few interviews this off season.
sazabirules
Unconfirmed Member
I hope he is considered in Washington. Anyone would be better than Dean Evason who will most likely be hired by GMGM.
Our 1st and Kaberle for their 1st.
I'd offer up my first born if it would mean that trade would go down.
SuperSonic1305
Member
Marlies can't do what the Binghampton Snors did last year.
SUCK IT
pew pew pew pew
Is that John Cena? Wrestling is in worse shape then I thought.
BigJonsson
Member
I had no idea Steve Thomas was an assistant coach for the Admirals
Similar threads
- Locked