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NHL January 2014 |OT| Bobby Orr, Bathroom Stalls, and the Battle at the Big House

S

SuperSonic1305

Member
SCHUEY F1 said:
This one is adorable. Looks so happy (pre-respek)

ab542b8594dc1527998898de7a708d3f.jpg
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Obama?
 
D

Dastardly Jerks

Banned
Acid08 said:
Lend me your strength tonight Ducks-Age. First game against the Queens since Hertl's injury. Someone better destroy Brown with some hard hits since he won't drop the gloves unless it's against dudes like Kesler. Even Doughboy has more courage than Brown.
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But Don Cherry said no hurt-a-whirtlin'!

Oh god... I want that happy little guy back in the league :( regardless of team! He's like the Jeff Skinner of the West.
 
L

lamaroo

Unconfirmed Member
Acid08 said:
Yeah but the Habs having a big player who's bad doesn't negate an argument that your team could use more size. All big players aren't bad.
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What I meant was, Bergevin said he wanted to get bigger and tougher, the same thing everyone says about Montreal every year, and the players he picked up to do this were Parros and Murray, the two worst players on the team. That's what happens when you focus on size and toughness over anything, and I fear we might see some more useless guys come in like that, all for the sake of adding toughness.

Instead of adjusting their play style to suit their best players, they're going to continue playing dump and chase, and bring in useless grinders who can do that.

I do think the team should be bigger, but these "analysts" are ignoring the real problem with this team, to push the stupid toughness angle again.
 
L

Lone_Prodigy

Member
Dastardly Jerks said:
I completely forgot that he existed.

Remember that time he played for the Canucks and was traded to Florida after a few weeks? Good times.
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Remember when everyone thought the Canucks fleeced the Panthers when they got Booth for Sturm and Samuelsson? Good times.

EDIT: The only winners in this Tomb Raider thing is Squenix/CD, who are getting away with re-releasing a year-old game for $60.
 
R

Red_Man

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
lamaroo said:
Nilan on OTR is blaming the team, not Therrien. He even says Therrien is getting more out of this team than he should be, I'm worried Bergevin thinks the same way. Of course they're all blaming it on the size of the team, ignoring the fact that their biggest player is the worst by far.
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I love Nilan, but he's a bit over the hill now, I listen to him a lot on TSN radio, and his opinions tend to be pretty archaic. He also thought Orpik should have fought Thorton.

Size is the most overrated "factor" in the league, it's a joke how much people put stock into it. Skill & hockey IQ will always trump size.
 
R

Red_Man

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
Louis Jean is reporting Bergevin turned down Parenteau for Bourque straight up.......The fuck?
 
A

Acid08

Banned
Red_Man said:
I love Nilan, but he's a bit over the hill now, I listen to him a lot on TSN radio, and his opinions tend to be pretty archaic. He also thought Orpik should have fought Thorton.

Size is the most overrated "factor" in the league, it's a joke how much people put stock into it. Skill & hockey IQ will always trump size.
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I don't think size is the word you're looking for. I think "toughness" might be more appropriate. Size can be very important for winning board battles and just wearing down opposing players. If you have two equally skilled players but one is five inches taller and 20 pounds heavier I'd take the bigger player every single time.

Toughness is a word often associated with the goons and face punchers of the league. Those guys don't necessarily have to be big either.
 
R

Red_Man

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
McKenzie also said that multiple players have problems with Therrien's decisions, but he's not going anywhere. Fantastic.

SCHUEY F1 said:
#FireBergevin&Therrien

edit: Bourque is full of respek
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I have to think Av's wanted a pick or prospect included in that, I refuse to believe he turned down a trade for the two straight up.

Acid08 said:
I don't think size is the word you're looking for. I think "thoughness" might be more appropriate. Size can be very important for winning board battles and just wearing down opposing players. If you have two equally skilled players but one is five inches taller and 20 pounds heavier I'd take the bigger player every single time.
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So would everyone, but that's not the point. The point is getting players who are large and taking up roster spots, but have limited skill. These players like Thorton and Lucic are very rare, if you can get one that's great, but obsessing with size is stupid. Look at how dominant Chicago is, and they aren't a huge, tough team.
 
S

SCHUEY F1

Unconfirmed Member
Parenteau has 26 points to Bourques 8. Is Parenteau even lazier than Bourque or something? If that is true Bergevin is an idiot.
 
R

Red_Man

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
Adrian Dater from the Denver post just said the Parenteau / Bourque rumors aren't true. So either he's lying or TVA Sports sources aren't good.
 
M

Merguson

Banned
Red_Man said:
McKenzie also said that multiple players have problems with Therrien's decisions, but he's not going anywhere. Fantastic.

I have to think Av's wanted a pick or prospect included in that, I refuse to believe he turned down a trade for the two straight up.

So would everyone, but that's not the point. The point is getting players who are large and taking up roster spots, but have limited skill. These players like Thorton and Lucic are very rare, if you can get one that's great, but obsessing with size is stupid. Look at how dominant Chicago is, and they aren't a huge, tough team.
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Bergevin refused to fleece a legendary player like Joe Sakic. (or Patrick Roy?)

Wow.

Such respek.
 
A

Acid08

Banned
Red_Man said:
So would everyone, but that's not the point. The point is getting players who are large and taking up roster spots, but have limited skill. These players like Thorton and Lucic are very rare, if you can get one that's great, but obsessing with size is stupid. Look at how dominant Chicago is, and they aren't a huge, tough team.
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Yeah but you're kidding yourself if you think Chicago is anywhere near a small team. They have 4 players under 6' and the Habs gave 8. As with all things there needs to be a balance. Big guys are really useful but you're right, Bergevin should try getting larger skilled guys. They're not as exceedingly rare as you're saying.
 
S

SCHUEY F1

Unconfirmed Member
Acid08 said:
Yeah but you're kidding yourself if you think Chicago is anywhere near a small team. They have 4 players under 6' and the Habs gave 8. As with all things there needs to be a balance. Big guys are really useful but you're right, Bergevin should try getting larger skilled guys. They're not as exceedingly rare as you're saying.
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Briere and DD for Big Joe.
 
R

Red_Man

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
Acid08 said:
Yeah but you're kidding yourself if you think Chicago is anywhere near a small team. They have 4 players under 6' and the Habs gave 8. As with all things there needs to be a balance. Big guys are really useful but you're right, Bergevin should try getting larger skilled guys. They're not as exceedingly rare as you're saying.
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Really? You'd struggle to give me 10 players who've been traded in the last 5 years that are over 6'2 and on pace for 60 points this season. You're underplaying how difficult it is to acquire these players. You basically have to draft them, or get lucky and fleece the odd team like the Leafs did with JVR.
 
L

lamaroo

Unconfirmed Member
I'd love Chris Stewart for example, a guy with size who uses it, and he has a great shot as well. There are questions about his compete level, and I haven't seen many St Louis games so I'm sure the Blues fans would know better, but even when he's not scoring at least he can do stuff(intangibles!), unlike useless Bourque.

Bourque, by the way, is the perfect example of why size doesn't always mean better. I'm pretty sure Cammalleri won more board battles than Bourque.

Edit: Habs do have too many small soft players, but that isn't why they're losing right now.
 
C

Curufinwe

Member
Red_Man said:
Really? You'd struggle to give me 10 players who've been traded in the last 5 years that are over 6'2 and on pace for 60 points this season. You're underplaying how difficult it is to acquire these players. You basically have to draft them, or get lucky and fleece the odd team like the Leafs did with JVR.
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I could only come up with eight 6'2 and over guys traded in the last five years. And I had to drop the points pace to 55.

Voracek
Simmonds
Carter
JVR
Buff
Ryan
Jagr
Wheeler
 
R

Red_Man

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
Curufinwe said:
I could only come up with eight 6'2 and over guys traded in the last five years. And I had to drop the points pace to 55.

Voracek
Simmonds
Carter
JVR
Buff
Ryan
Jagr
Wheeler
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Look at the prices paid for most of those guys. Bergevin wants to build through the draft and with prospects, it's pretty difficult to even find a team willing to part with those players, and when you do you pay a huge price.
 
M

Merguson

Banned
Curufinwe said:
I could only come up with eight 6'2 and over guys traded in the last five years. And I had to drop the points pace to 55.

Voracek
Simmonds
Carter
JVR
Buff
Ryan
Jagr
Wheeler
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Neal should count as well, I believe.

Red_Man said:
Look at the prices paid for most of those guys. Bergevin wants to build through the draft and with prospects, it's pretty difficult to even find a team willing to part with those players, and when you do you pay a huge price.
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I don't doubt there's a market of these type of players available. The key question is whether a general manager is willing to pay those prices, obviously.
 
A

Acid08

Banned
Red_Man said:
Really? You'd struggle to give me 10 players who've been traded in the last 5 years that are over 6'2 and on pace for 60 points this season. You're underplaying how difficult it is to acquire these players. You basically have to draft them, or get lucky and fleece the odd team like the Leafs did with JVR.
Click to expand...

Olli Jokinen
Burns
JVR
Kovalchuk
Heatley
Vrbata
James Neal
Byfuglien
Ryan
Jagr
Wheeler
Simmonds
Carter
Turris
Gaborik

I fudged with your specific requirements a bit(some are 6'1", some have had injury trouble, some have regressed since being traded) but they're all pretty close to, or exactly, what you asked for.

These types players are available. And if you want guys like this you're going to have to be willing to pay for them obviously. Lots of these guys would have probably been an upgrade when they were available.

Edit: Forgot Voracek.
 
F

Freyjadour

Member
lamaroo said:
I'd love Chris Stewart for example, a guy with size who uses it, and he has a great shot as well. There are questions about his compete level, and I haven't seen many St Louis games so I'm sure the Blues fans would know better, but even when he's not scoring at least he can do stuff(intangibles!), unlike useless Bourque.

Bourque, by the way, is the perfect example of why size doesn't always mean better. I'm pretty sure Cammalleri won more board battles than Bourque.

Edit: Habs do have too many small soft players, but that isn't why they're losing right now.
Click to expand...

tumblr_m00r2b2pAA1qemb5uo4_250.gif

tumblr_m00r2b2pAA1qemb5uo4_250.gif

tumblr_m00r2b2pAA1qemb5uo4_250.gif

tumblr_m00r2b2pAA1qemb5uo4_250.gif
 
R

Red_Man

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
Acid08 said:
Olli Jokinen
Burns
JVR
Kovalchuk
Heatley
Vrbata
James Neal
Byfuglien
Ryan
Jagr
Wheeler
Simmonds
Carter
Turris
Gaborik


Edit: Forgot Voracek.
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Out of this list the only players you would want to build a team with would be Turris, Carter, Simmonds, Wheeler, Ryan, Neal, Vrbata, JVR, and Burns. That's 9 forwards over 5 years, and the most of them were included in significant trades. It's not easy to get these kind of players, plain and simple. GM's don't want to move these kind of players, these are the guys every GM is looking for.
 
L

Lone_Prodigy

Member
You know, the "big and skilled" argument was used in the Kassian-Hodgson trade. I agree they are hard to acquire, and frankly the jury's still out on Kassian.
 
F

Freyjadour

Member
To clarify: Stewart is a talented goalscorer that is an absolute fucking bum in every other part of the game considering his size. He excels against bad teams that give him ample space, and he'll do far better in the East than the West, just don't expect any defensive capabilities in the slightest.
 
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