Ninja Gaiden II IGN review

Mamesj said:
You think people from Yale can't make mistakes?

When has there ever been stealth in NG? Never. not now, not on the NES. It's a common and annoying complaint about the series. it's an action game, not a stealth game. You don't need a degree from Yale to figure that out. (but way to take a sarcastic comment literally.)

but for fuck's sake, people need to stop whining about stealth in Ninja Gaiden. Even the people who have master's degrees from Yale.
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His criticism makes sense to me. Team Ninja had a great opportunity to throw in some simple, well-executed stealth elements (which, like the reviewer said, makes sense for a ninja game), and instead threw that away for some cheap respawning. And NG wasn't a pure action game. It had lots of platforming, adventure, and RPG elements. Adding a bit of properly-integrated stealth to that would've been great.

The Eurogamer review seems really good, and much better than most of the mainstream sites. If the reviewer really does have a top education, I can see the results in the writing; maybe more sites should hire these sorts of people.
 
Stealth? Christ's sake, people. What, because he's a ninja? A real ninja would sneak? Little more reality in your game about shit talking demons, dominatrix CIA agents, 4 armed werewolf gods and magic statues?

And don't even get me started on stealth segments in games that are not stealth based. They are invariably terrible. I cannot think of a single first person shooter, action game, brawler or whatever that implemented stealth in any sort of entertaining fashion. Stealth needs to be a core concept, not some bullet point that shows up a couple times and is never heard from again.

Stealth. In Ninja Gaiden. My God.
 
The Eurogamer reviewer (Rob Fahey) is good people. He has a few strong biases he wears on his sleeve and readily admits to (he is a huge fan of JRPGs, for instance), but he has no anti-Xbox agenda (he was the one who reviewed Halo 3 for EG and gave it a 10, let's not forget) and made clear in the forums that last-gen Ninja Gaiden is one of his favourite games, and one he has completed 'four or five' times in its different incarnations.
 
onemic said:
That's why it was critically panned amirite?
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Yes, actually. Reviewers are horrendously bad at wrapping their heads around games that are really different or really special, or games that rely on fundamentally great gameplay rather than high production values and masses of content. God Hand wasn't a big-budget game, and suffered in reviews as a result.
 
Draft said:
Stealth? Christ's sake, people. What, because he's a ninja? A real ninja would sneak? Little more reality in your game about shit talking demons, dominatrix CIA agents, 4 armed werewolf gods and magic statues?

And don't even get me started on stealth segments in games that are not stealth based. They are invariably terrible. I cannot think of a single first person shooter, action game, brawler or whatever that implemented stealth in any sort of entertaining fashion. Stealth needs to be a core concept, not some bullet point that shows up a couple times and is never heard from again.

Stealth. In Ninja Gaiden. My God.
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Play Riddick
 
There's nothing inherently wrong with stealth. However, I think it should always be possible to prevail in any given situation without sneaking around. There should be situations in which stealth is the best way to complete the objective, but it should never be the only way.
 
raYne said:
A whole bunch of new weapons, moves, enemies and obliteration techniques bringing more combat possibilities. Severing limbs and the like being used as stragegy. Beginner difficulty levels which add health regeneration levels to make the game more accessable to new players. Ninja Cinema that records your gameplay and gives you the option to upload it for all to see.

Seems to evolve on the old NG to me.
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review at cvg didnt seem to think it was all that different:

"The sequel packs the same punch as the original but it's just not different enough. We've all seen in and done what NGII dishes up in the other three games of the series. There's no real evolution and after four versions of almost the same game, it's not hard to see why Itagaki has decided to hang up the nunchucks for good."
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Wait ... so the framerate has problems? >_<



After all the bitching he did versus DMC gameplay ... he brings out an action game with framerate issues? The fuck?
 
Onix said:
Wait ... so the framerate has problems? >_<



After all the bitching he did versus DMC gameplay ... he brings out an action game with framerate issues? The fuck?
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so is DMC4.
 
Shake Appeal said:
Beyond Good & Evil's stealth elements were fun while they lasted.
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No, because these elements punished unscripted sneaking with death traps. It was like playing a puzzle game.
 
McDragon said:
so is DMC4.
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If NG2 has framerate issues like DMC4 has framerate "issues", then it's a NON issue. DMC4 has like 2 screens where the frame dips, and even then it's quickly corrected.
 
Draft said:
Actually, you are right. Riddick did implement stealth well. But Riddick is the exception that proves the rule.
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The rule is "don't throw in stealth missions when you're not making a stealth game", and it's definitely a good one. As Speevy mentioned though, throwing in a few sections that let you optionally use some simple stealth to make things easier is, by contrast, a good idea.

Anyways, Eurogamer wasn't saying that NG2 needed stealth. Just that if you're going to throw some of it in, you may as well make it useful and not another opportunity to experience cheap respawning.
 
Draft said:
If NG2 has framerate issues like DMC4 has framerate "issues", then it's a NON issue. DMC4 has like 2 screens where the frame dips, and even then it's quickly corrected.
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they were mostly in that fucking forest.

i hate that forest, i really do.
 
Stealth in Ninja Gaiden? What the hell people?

frAntic_Frog said:
review at cvg didnt seem to think it was all that different:
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Considering none of the things I mentioned were in the old games. That review seems to have left a few things out in that summary haven't they?
 
Y2Kev said:
stealth in lost odyssey nearly pushed me over the edge
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It was literally a 10 minute section.....in a 50 hour game. I barely even took note of it.

And mind you, usually I hate that sort of tacked on gameplay.

Hearing NG is without a tacked on Stealth section warms my heart.
 
Draft said:
Actually, you are right. Riddick did implement stealth well. But Riddick is the exception that proves the rule.
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Thief and No One Lives Forever were good too (for their time).

Anyway, c'mon guys, do Ninja Gaiden fans even care what reviews it gets? We all know what to expect. People bitched about the camera in the first and it was no problem for me at all once pulling the R trigger often became second nature. The only concern I have is the reported framerate inconsistencies....but even the first one had them when you used your ninpo or when multiple enemies on the screen used pojectiles and stuff.
 
raYne said:
Considering none of the things I mentioned were in the old games. That review seems to have left a few things out in that summary haven't they?
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It wasn't mentioned in the review probably because those aspects don't change the game as much as you think
 
Chairman Yang said:
The rule is "don't throw in stealth missions when you're not making a stealth game", and it's definitely a good one. As Speevy mentioned though, throwing in a few sections that let you optionally use some simple stealth to make things easier is, by contrast, a good idea.

Anyways, Eurogamer wasn't saying that NG2 needed stealth. Just that if you're going to throw some of it in, you may as well make it useful and not another opportunity to experience cheap respawning.
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The enemies are supposed to respawn. So you can fight them again. That's why you play the game, to fight the enemies.
 
Draft said:
Stealth? Christ's sake, people. What, because he's a ninja? A real ninja would sneak? Little more reality in your game about shit talking demons, dominatrix CIA agents, 4 armed werewolf gods and magic statues?

And don't even get me started on stealth segments in games that are not stealth based. They are invariably terrible. I cannot think of a single first person shooter, action game, brawler or whatever that implemented stealth in any sort of entertaining fashion. Stealth needs to be a core concept, not some bullet point that shows up a couple times and is never heard from again.

Stealth. In Ninja Gaiden. My God.
Click to expand...
I don't think he meant that the game should incorporate genuine stealth elements, I think he's just annoyed that he got attacked before he could even see the enemy.

He wants the fight to start when he knows what he's fighting.


Considering none of the things I mentioned were in the old games. That review seems to have left a few things out in that summary haven't they?
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Obliteration techniques are nothing but flashy finishing moves, they don't really affect the gameplay, they were pretty popular last gen. Limb cutting is pretty much random, it's not like you can cut precisely the pieces of body you want.
 
raYne said:
Stealth in Ninja Gaiden? What the hell people?


Considering none of the things I mentioned were in the old games. That review seems to have left a few things out in that summary haven't they?
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not really....they are the ones who played it and reviewed and gave it a 7/10....apparently they thought, COMPARED to previous NG versions, it just wasnt different enough to really be considered a "next-gen" NG. still a great and cool game, but more like Ninja Gaiden 1.5 is what they think
 
I think POP: The two thrones did a pretty good/fun stealth, even though it was optional, and of course Riddick, but besides those two, they're (mostly) crap
 
Draft said:
The enemies are supposed to respawn. So you can fight them again. That's why you play the game, to fight the enemies.
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The reviewer didn't complain about respawning enemies:

Eurogamer said:
It tantalises with the possibility of clever solutions or stealth (you are a bloody ninja, after all), allowing you to shoot out searchlights, and then instantly respawns the searchlights and bombards you with long-range rockets again.
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Basically, if Team Ninja is going to put in lots of non-action elements into Ninja Gaiden, it would behoove them to execute them properly. At least the platforming is a lot better, supposedly.
 
Chairman Yang said:
His criticism makes sense to me. Team Ninja had a great opportunity to throw in some simple, well-executed stealth elements (which, like the reviewer said, makes sense for a ninja game), and instead threw that away for some cheap respawning. And NG wasn't a pure action game. It had lots of platforming, adventure, and RPG elements. Adding a bit of properly-integrated stealth to that would've been great.

The Eurogamer review seems really good, and much better than most of the mainstream sites. If the reviewer really does have a top education, I can see the results in the writing; maybe more sites should hire these sorts of people.
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The guys who made halo had some really good opportunities to throw in a hand to hand combat system ala Riddick. MC is a soldier and soldier often fight with their hands. There were some really good opportunities for dog racing in Okami too...dogs can race. The lack of an education system in GTA was a real let down...after all, you're an immigrant in NYC, one way to make it in the U.S. is to attend school.

naw, all that's irrelevant. If he wanted to pontificate about what should have been in NGII, he should do it on his own time. You can do that in any review for any game. It just serves to emphasize a negative feeling about the game, but not on objective terms.

This is why I rarely fucking read reviews, though...brings up too many writing issues :lol
 
Apparently there are 168 esteemed insiders (as of this post) who have taken it upon themselves to rate the unreleased game on IGN's NG2 site. All of these folks have played through the game and have wisely given it the correct average score of 8.4. Lower your expectations accordingly!
 
McDragon said:
they were mostly in that fucking forest.

i hate that forest, i really do.
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ugliest next-gen environment.

game should never have shipped with the shadows like that with the way that level was designed.
 
Euphor!a said:
It wasn't mentioned in the review probably because those aspects don't change the game as much as you think
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I don't expect there to be radical changes between this game and the previous ones. Afterall, that isn't what an evolution is meant to be.

That said, they most definitely do change how the game is played. Enemy limb loss and health regen specifically.

frAntic_Frog said:
not really....they are the ones who played it and reviewed and gave it a 7/10....apparently they thought, COMPARED to previous NG versions, it just wasnt different enough to really be considered a "next-gen" NG. still a great and cool game, but more like Ninja Gaiden 1.5 is what they think
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Yeah, I can give you a long list of current-gen sequels that most definitely didn't bring anything new to the table and have in fact lost things from the previous gen. Yet they weren't docked for it. But this is the guy's opinion and so be it.

Anyone that was expecting the sequel to be drastically different is crazy.
 
Draft said:
The enemies are supposed to respawn. So you can fight them again. That's why you play the game, to fight the enemies.
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The enemies don't respawn like in the original and sigma. If you back track you will see body parts of your fallen enemies and floating blood (you'll see what I mean when you play it)
 
Chairman Yang said:
The reviewer didn't complain about respawning enemies:



Basically, if Team Ninja is going to put in lots of non-action elements into Ninja Gaiden, it would behoove them to execute them properly. At least the platforming is a lot better, supposedly.
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Shoot out searchlights? Respawns the searchlights? I have no clue what the man is talking about.

Presumably there's a segment where you shoot out some lights and that makes you safe from rockets or whatever. And then I guess if you leave the screen and come back the searchlights are back. And I guess I can kind of see how that might annoy a man, but it's a damn action game. Stuff resets when you leave the screen.

I probably won't even shoot the searchlights. I'll just dodge the Goddamn rockets. I am a ninja after all.
 
Draft said:
I probably won't even shoot the searchlights. I'll just dodge the Goddamn rockets. I am a ninja after all.
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itapoint.gif


"Spoken like a true Master Ninja"

:D
 
Gizmo_Monkey said:
is this game shorter than the first one? cause the first was 19 chapters and this is less :(
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Not all of those levels were even worth playing. Im looking at you shitty swimming level and the ghost fish level.

Don't dewll on the chapter number though. It depends on how large the levels themselves are and from what I've read, there are far more open environments this time around.
 
Jinfash said:
:lol
oh ok lol thought you were calling ME a tool for agreeing with dfyb
i was heartbroken 'til you replied :P
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yea I was originally going to put Itagaki in the post but I don't know how to spell it, then it ended up coming off baaad lol
 
Draft said:
I probably won't even shoot the searchlights. I'll just dodge the Goddamn rockets. I am a ninja after all.
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Seriously, remember in NG1, there was a section where you entered an enclosed hallway and on the other end were three rocket soldiers. At least there's space to dodge more in this one!
 
Draft said:
I probably won't even shoot the searchlights. I'll just dodge the Goddamn rockets. I am a ninja after all.
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and when enemies spawn on top of me, I'm going to block, dodge, and attempt to break their guard. or, god forbid, jump away.


Brannon said:
Seriously, remember in NG1, there was a section where you entered an enclosed hallway and on the other end were three rocket soldiers. At least there's space to dodge more in this one!
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all I can say about rockets is hurricane pack 3. jesus fucking christ in a bucket. They spawn on top of you and shoot like 30 rockets at you.
 
Y2Kev said:
ugliest next-gen environment.

game should never have shipped with the shadows like that with the way that level was designed.
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i can tolerate all that but when you backtrack with Dante...oh god...
 
Brannon said:
Seriously, remember in NG1, there was a section where you entered an enclosed hallway and on the other end were three rocket soldiers. At least there's space to dodge more in this one!
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:lol Yeah, you loaded right in the room and you had like a second to react before they launched them at you.

The best thing about the series is that's not even the hardest example. <3 NG.
 
Gizmo_Monkey said:
is this game shorter than the first one? cause the first was 19 chapters and this is less :(
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first is 16.

sigma is 19, 3 extra rachel chapters in-between ryu's.
 
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