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[Shig]

I doubt you will see that. If anything you will see an SNES Classic or N64 Classic. I'd be shocked if Nintendo's plan is to offer an NES Classic 2 with 30 more games. If that were the case they wouldn't put Mario 1, 2 and 3, along with Zelda 1 and 2 and Metroid on this thing rather than spacing them out. This is a one off thing. I'm not sure how that's not readily apparent. I don't think Nintendo has any interest in creating an ecosystem for this device. The reason this thing got so much mainstream buzz when it first was announced is because it hit the perfect nostalgia spot with the kind of consumer that doesn't care about Amiibos or expansion cartridges. They get 30 classic games to mess around with of varying quality and popularity, get to scratch that nostalgia itch, and get a stocking stuffer for the holidays. It's not any more or less than that.

OK, so you're conceding that you don't know the general business model these plug & play machines follow.

NES Classic 2 wouldn't have a totally different lineup of games, because that's not what happens. What happens is that the subsequent releases add a few games and subtract a few others, but the core lineup largely remains the same. Hence the question, "are the people that bought the first revision going to buy another largely identical piece of hardware to get a new game or two that was added?"

I get where you're coming from with "most people wouldn't buy anything past the inital purchase," and that's true! As it is with most purchasers of things! It doesn't negate that add-ons can be a significant revenue stream. For every ten people that buy the thing and throw it in the closet, there's one that would buy a handful of expansions if they were offered. It's a little silly to take a hardline stance that the market for something that would pretty obviously appeal to Nintendo diehards is negligible, considering that Nintendo just sucked in over a billion dollars selling little barely-functional tchotchkes to that segment of their market. You're gonna tell me that figures celebrating obscure Nintendo characters could sell by the boatloads to them, but nicely-packaged, officially-published collections of full NES games would be met with total apathy?

 

[March of the Crabs]

Weirdly enough, I think the thing I'm most stoked about for this is the UI. All these plug and play things have terrible menus and UIs so it'll be neat to see one made by a company who gives a shit. Nintendo's menus are always fun so I'm curious to see what they come up with.

 

[valkillmore]

Really wish Rad Racer was included. Maybe I'm looking at it w rise tinted glasses but I remember loving that game.

 

[Nairume]

Nintendo just sucked in over a billion dollars selling little barely-functional tchotchkes to that segment of their market. You're gonna tell me that figures celebrating obscure Nintendo characters could sell by the boatloads to them, but nicely-packaged, officially-published collections of full NES games would be met with total apathy?

For what it's worth, the "obscure" ones aren't really selling by the boatloads, seeing as how the Animal Crossing line seems to be bombing and the more obscure figures in the Smash line having really small prints.

 

[Shig]

For what it's worth, the obscure ones aren't really selling by the boatloads.

Well, none of them are selling much now, because Nintendo overcompensated and flooded the market. But obscure characters were plenty popular when they weren't being produced like they were going to sell 1:1 with the more popular ones.

 

[The Real Abed]

Really wish Rad Racer was included. Maybe I'm looking at it w rise tinted glasses but I remember loving that game.

Yeah. It's a fun game. Hard but fun. Plus, that one music track...

I'd gladly trade two of the games for Rad Racer and RoadBlasters.

 

[Oddduck]

I wish this had Ice Hockey and River City Ransom.

Otherwise, it's a solid selection of games.

 

[Lupin the Third]

Presumably speaking, if the Atari/Coleco/Intellivision Flashbacks and the various Firecore Genesis's weren't selling well, they probably wouldn't keep putting out more with different games/features and probably wouldn't keep reprinting the ones that exist.

Even more presumably, Nintendo wouldn't bother trying it out themselves if the data suggested that these things don't sell.

I meant specifically at UO. He's been using it as the jumping point of his argument that Atari (Flashback) is selling well with younger audiences but all he really has is "I saw they had them at UO once."

Obviously they sell well in general or (as you said) they wouldn't make so many and so often, but you can't say "these are selling well to 30-and-unders" because you saw them once in a store patroned by that age group. They might just be stocking them as a trial thing, or they only see modest sales but they're just steady enough to justify the shelf space.

Like, I get it, the NES Classic Mini will sell like the hottest of cakes, there's obviously a healthy a market for this stuff already, and it's not going to be some ambitious piece of Nintendo hardware with a long-term future or secret feature. I'm not a dummy.

And I know my anecdotal evidence in this thread on the matter (gleaned from 10+ years at game retail) isn't a whole lot better, scientifically speaking. But let's at least try to have discussions, debates, and rebuttals based on more conclusive information where possible, can we all?

 

[Gamecocks625]

The fact that some of you can't understand how this is a one and done deal (hence, no NES Classic 2, etc) is astounding.

I'm willing to bet my first born child there won't be a NES classic 2

 

[frankie_baby]

The fact that some of you can't understand how this is a one and done deal (hence, no NES Classic 2, etc) is astounding.

I'm willing to bet my first born child there won't be a NES classic 2

Of course there'll be a NES classic 2, probably before there's even a snes classic, might as well make good use of the plastic molds

 

[KingBroly]

Of course there'll be a NES classic 2, probably before there's even a snes classic, might as well make good use of the plastic molds

An NES Mini 2 would be such a worse value comparatively from the games alone...

unless it was the same thing, but with the redesigned NES look

 

[frankie_baby]

An NES Mini 2 would be such a worse value comparatively from the games alone...

unless it was the same thing, but with the redesigned NES look

It'll probably be next xmas with probably some of the same games, some games taken out and some new ones put in, probably wont sell as much but still be a very profitable venture
And of course it won't be the redesigned NES, who the hell has any nostalgia for that? How many people even know what that looks like?

 

[Shig]

The fact that some of you can't understand how this is a one and done deal (hence, no NES Classic 2, etc) is astounding.

I'm willing to bet my first born child there won't be a NES classic 2

I mean, it's the model every other popular plug and play machine has followed. Put out a new model that changes up the games included a tiny bit every year or so, when the last revision starts losing steam. Retailers are much more likely to order significant numbers of a new SKU than to suddenly bump up orders for one they've had for a while, even if it's technically an almost identical product.

That's almost the entire reason games get Greatest Hits re-releases with slightly different packaging. Retailers just aren't proactive about reorders and lose interest, SKU refreshes force their attention.

 

[Herb Alpert]

still nothing on amazon.fr

 

[FyreWulff]

I don't see how they can justify selling 30 NES games for $60. It should be NES's entire library. Why isn't it? Most people who remotely care about the NES have had NES's entire library on their computers since the mid 90s or they bought whatever they wanted already on virtual console.

Go buy all these games from the used shops for 60$. I'll wait right here.

 

[witchedwiz]

to be "perfect" for me it should have had..
1) all the megamen
2) all the adventure island
3) all adventures of lolo, or at least the third
4) batman
5) shadow of the ninja
6) little samson
7) nintendo world cup
8) both battletoads games
9) at least one contra
10) gargoyle's quest
11) star wars
12) both duck tales
13) faxanadu
14) maniac mansion
15) rygar
16) trog
17) shadowgate
18) both mutant turtles game
19) rollergames
20) little nemo
21) adventures in magic kingdom!
22) rainbow island: bubble bubble 2..

i mean i appreciate the gesture, and understand the difficulties, but as it stands, that thing is little more than a glorified nothing with little of the meaningful non-nintendo games

 

[FyreWulff]

You know, one of the things that I take from this is that like everything else with Nintendo, you can always rest assured that every great unused game feature or hardware idea will always show up in a different context sooner or later.

90s me would still be surprised at seeing Nintendo putting Sega controllers next to theirs in any official capacity.

 

[SinCityAssassin]

Well, none of them are selling much now, because Nintendo overcompensated and flooded the market. But obscure characters were plenty popular when they weren't being produced like they were going to sell 1:1 with the more popular ones.

Animal Crossing is flooded, yes. The rest are just reasonably stocked now.

 

[Plinko]

For what it's worth, the "obscure" ones aren't really selling by the boatloads, seeing as how the Animal Crossing line seems to be bombing and the more obscure figures in the Smash line having really small prints.

Had Nintendo actually released a full-fledged AC game that utilized those characters, they probably wouldn't have done so terribly, but that's neither here nor there at this point.

 

[Gamecocks625]

There will be a SNES Classic Edition long before a NES Classic Edition 2 (which won't happen)

I'm just grumpy bc it's not up on Amazon yet

 

[Airola]

to be "perfect" for me it should have had..
1) all the megamen
2) all the adventure island
3) all adventures of lolo, or at least the third
4) batman
5) shadow of the ninja
6) little samson
7) nintendo world cup
8) both battletoads games
9) at least one contra
10) gargoyle's quest
11) star wars
12) both duck tales
13) faxanadu
14) maniac mansion
15) rygar
16) trog
17) shadowgate
18) both mutant turtles game
19) rollergames
20) little nemo
21) adventures in magic kingdom!
22) rainbow island: bubble bubble 2..

i mean i appreciate the gesture, and understand the difficulties, but as it stands, that thing is little more than a glorified nothing with little of the meaningful non-nintendo games

Well, there is one Contra, Super C.
So now this machine is 1/22 perfect for you

 

[ichbinmiah]

I don't believe I've seen anyone address this in 60+ pages, but my question is: How has Nintendo convinced third parties to seemingly devalue their IP so far from previously established pricing like this?

Take Final Fantasy, for example: It's generally available for, what, $4.99 on the eShop? Square-Enix sells an enhanced version for iOS for $7.99. Were they aware that Nintendo was packaging their IP in a 30 game bundle for $60, or is this some licensing loophole holdover from the Wii days that Nintendo is exploiting? Yes, Final Fantasy is close to 30 years old now, but what minuscule cut from sales of the NESMini does Square get for its IP here? How about the rest of the publishers? It can't be much more than pennies per unit sold, or the total price would be higher to cover licensing costs.

This is an important question, as I see a lot of people bandying about God-Tier wish lists for a similar SNESMini filled with titles with way more perceived market value than the games being packaged here. If we think Square-Enix will be content with, say, 3 cents per copy of Chrono Trigger packaged, we are bound to be disappointed in one of two ways: The SNESMini is sold at a much higher price point so all publishers get their licensing share, or publishers balk at being included so cheaply, and we don't get the games many of us want on the system when it's released.

So how is Nintendo doing this with IP that's not all theirs at such a low price point? Licensing sleight-of-hand? Taking a significant profit per-unit hit in the hopes this is a mammoth holiday seller?

 

[Megalosaro]

So how is Nintendo doing this with IP that's not all theirs at such a low price point? Licensing sleight-of-hand? Taking a significant profit per-unit hit in the hopes this is a mammoth holiday seller?

There is not a single game on there that wasn't negotiated in. Nintendo isn't doing anything shady there

 

[frankie_baby]

I don't believe I've seen anyone address this in 60+ pages, but my question is: How has Nintendo convinced third parties to seemingly devalue their IP so far from previously established pricing like this?

Take Final Fantasy, for example: It's generally available for, what, $4.99 on the eShop? Square-Enix sells an enhanced version for iOS for $7.99. Were they aware that Nintendo was packaging their IP in a 30 game bundle for $60, or is this some licensing loophole holdover from the Wii days that Nintendo is exploiting? Yes, Final Fantasy is close to 30 years old now, but what minuscule cut from sales of the NESMini does Square get for its IP here? How about the rest of the publishers? It can't be much more than pennies per unit sold, or the total price would be higher to cover licensing costs.

This is an important question, as I see a lot of people bandying about God-Tier wish lists for a similar SNESMini filled with titles with way more perceived market value than the games being packaged here. If we think Square-Enix will be content with, say, 3 cents per copy of Chrono Trigger packaged, we are bound to be disappointed in one of two ways: The SNESMini is sold at a much higher price point so all publishers get their licensing share, or publishers balk at being included so cheaply, and we don't get the games many of us want on the system when it's released.

So how is Nintendo doing this with IP that's not all theirs at such a low price point? Licensing sleight-of-hand? Taking a significant profit per-unit hit in the hopes this is a mammoth holiday seller?

Squenix are probably happy selling a like 50k copies at 5 bucks, but then with something like this they're probably happy with like 10cents a copy assuming it'll sell a couple of millions

 

[Justinh]

I don't believe I've seen anyone address this in 60+ pages, but my question is: How has Nintendo convinced third parties to seemingly devalue their IP so far from previously established pricing like this?

Take Final Fantasy, for example: It's generally available for, what, $4.99 on the eShop? Square-Enix sells an enhanced version for iOS for $7.99. Were they aware that Nintendo was packaging their IP in a 30 game bundle for $60, or is this some licensing loophole holdover from the Wii days that Nintendo is exploiting? Yes, Final Fantasy is close to 30 years old now, but what minuscule cut from sales of the NESMini does Square get for its IP here? How about the rest of the publishers? It can't be much more than pennies per unit sold, or the total price would be higher to cover licensing costs.

This is an important question, as I see a lot of people bandying about God-Tier wish lists for a similar SNESMini filled with titles with way more perceived market value than the games being packaged here. If we think Square-Enix will be content with, say, 3 cents per copy of Chrono Trigger packaged, we are bound to be disappointed in one of two ways: The SNESMini is sold at a much higher price point so all publishers get their licensing share, or publishers balk at being included so cheaply, and we don't get the games many of us want on the system when it's released.

So how is Nintendo doing this with IP that's not all theirs at such a low price point? Licensing sleight-of-hand? Taking a significant profit per-unit hit in the hopes this is a mammoth holiday seller?

Maybe it's like: people who wanted to play it on iPad want it on an iOS device for a reason, and other versions of FF1 (GBA, PSP, PS1) aren't making them money either. I don't think that this thing is going to eat up sales for FF1 on iPad where I'm guessing they're making most of their money from FF1 sales.

I just assumed that a deals like this are worked out with Nintendo paying a lump sum to Square Enix for a limited time use of a thing, while eshop/PSN purchases were where the publisher would get a cut/who knows how small? and people who already wanted those versions already had bought it.

At least they're getting something for these old ass games that aren't making any money.

I don't really know anything though. Just a guess.

 

[Beer Monkey]

If I'm Square or Capcom or Konami I'm thinking that this retains brand and franchise awareness and it will help drive sales of various collections and digital titles that are related to the taste they are providing on the mini.

 

[FyreWulff]

I don't believe I've seen anyone address this in 60+ pages, but my question is: How has Nintendo convinced third parties to seemingly devalue their IP so far from previously established pricing like this?

Bundling is always cheaper for both customers and the companies involved, the third parties are basically trading away higher upfront cost vs volume from being attached to other big name games.

 

[blu]

So... I'm just going to call it now that this is actually an ARM-based device running a version of NX's OS, and that all of these games and more will be available on NX VC on day one.

An ARM device is a given. NX OS.. not so much. The last thing nintendo would want is getting early versions of NX OS in the hands of, erm, enthusiasts.

 

[Link_enfant]

Have they confirmed anything about how the games will run on this?
I guess that will be pure emulation, but can we expect a better rendering than Wii U VC?
Screen size and resolution options would be pretty neat!

 

[Diddy Kong]

to be "perfect" for me it should have had..
1) all the megamen
2) all the adventure island
3) all adventures of lolo, or at least the third
4) batman
5) shadow of the ninja
6) little samson
7) nintendo world cup
8) both battletoads games
9) at least one contra
10) gargoyle's quest
11) star wars
12) both duck tales
13) faxanadu
14) maniac mansion
15) rygar
16) trog
17) shadowgate
18) both mutant turtles game
19) rollergames
20) little nemo
21) adventures in magic kingdom!
22) rainbow island: bubble bubble 2..

i mean i appreciate the gesture, and understand the difficulties, but as it stands, that thing is little more than a glorified nothing with little of the meaningful non-nintendo games

nice

 

[Lupin the Third]

An ARM device is a given. NX OS.. not so much. The last thing nintendo would want is getting early versions of NX OS in the hands of, erm, enthusiasts.

You don't think it could be a miniaturized Wii with a shrunken chipset? Granted I only suggest it because of their choice of controller connector and the fact that all these games are already on Wii VC but not the others. And I know those aren't necessarily clues to anything but hey.

 

[Azure Dream]

I hope they thought ahead to expandability. The space to store literally every licensed NES game made is of trivial cost at this point (for example, a $4 8GB USB stick off the shelf could do it 32 times over). With an on-device store interface, they could really land some impulse buys. It'd be a waste if this was limited to just the 30 games on-board already.

 

[frankie_baby]

You don't think it could be a miniaturized Wii with a shrunken chipset? Granted I only suggest it because of their choice of controller connector and the fact that all these games are already on Wii VC but not the others. And I know those aren't necessarily clues to anything but hey.

3ds hardware is more likely, it'll handle outputting to hd resolutions better and will use less power

 

[1upmuffin]

I hope they thought ahead to expandability. The space to store literally every licensed NES game made is of trivial cost at this point (for example, a $4 8GB USB stick off the shelf could do it 32 times over). With an on-device store interface, they could really land some impulse buys. It'd be a waste if this was limited to just the 30 games on-board already.

Wifi adds cost and unnecessary complexity to a plug and play device. They have virtual console for people who want to buy specific games. 30 games is what this thing will have, then if popular they will make another one with different games.

 

[Toparaman]

I hope they thought ahead to expandability. The space to store literally every licensed NES game made is of trivial cost at this point (for example, a $4 8GB USB stick off the shelf could do it 32 times over). With an on-device store interface, they could really land some impulse buys. It'd be a waste if this was limited to just the 30 games on-board already.

It's not about space. Obtaining permission to resell every licensed NES game ever made would be a monumentally time consuming and expensive process for Nintendo. And then this thing wouldn't cost just $60. And it wouldn't be coming this year.

In any case I'm sure within a month of release someone will jailbreak this thing to accept any NES rom, but I'm guessing it will require a hardware mod, at the very least in order to connect external storage.

 

[Gamecocks625]

OK, so you're conceding that you don't know the general business model these plug & play machines follow.

NES Classic 2 wouldn't have a totally different lineup of games, because that's not what happens. What happens is that the subsequent releases add a few games and subtract a few others, but the core lineup largely remains the same. Hence the question, "are the people that bought the first revision going to buy another largely identical piece of hardware to get a new game or two that was added?"

I get where you're coming from with "most people wouldn't buy anything past the inital purchase," and that's true! As it is with most purchasers of things! It doesn't negate that add-ons can be a significant revenue stream. For every ten people that buy the thing and throw it in the closet, there's one that would buy a handful of expansions if they were offered. It's a little silly to take a hardline stance that the market for something that would pretty obviously appeal to Nintendo diehards is negligible, considering that Nintendo just sucked in over a billion dollars selling little barely-functional tchotchkes to that segment of their market. You're gonna tell me that figures celebrating obscure Nintendo characters could sell by the boatloads to them, but nicely-packaged, officially-published collections of full NES games would be met with total apathy?

Marketing. Nintendo is going after a certain (and rather large) segment with this device. A certain segment that probably has no interest in these additional features.

 

[Azure Dream]

Wifi adds cost and unnecessary complexity to a plug and play device. They have virtual console for people who want to buy specific games. 30 games is what this thing will have, then if popular they will make another one with different games.

Wi-Fi is trivial at this point, and would only need to work if people wanted to access the store interface. People are much less likely to buy a second little box with 30 more NES games, even if they make it a different color, or a slightly different shape or whatever. Virtual Console requires much more expensive hardware, and it doesn't have to.

It's not about space. Obtaining permission to resell every licensed NES game ever made would be a monumentally time consuming and expensive process for Nintendo. And then this thing wouldn't cost just $60. And it wouldn't be coming this year.

Whoa, you're thinking I'm arguing for something I'm not. I meant that it's trivial to add space for potential future purchases of NES games, they're usually a handful of kilobytes. I'm not saying "license the entire NES library", no DUH that would be expensive and difficult. They didn't even get Disney NES titles like Chip & Dale for VC, which were beloved.

I'm just saying that with a tiny bit of storage and a store interface, the sky's basically the limit for them when it comes to selling more NES titles.

In any case I'm sure within a month of release someone will jailbreak this thing to accept any NES rom, but I'm guessing it will require a hardware mod, at the very least in order to connect external storage.

That goes without saying. Probably the first thing some people will do will be open it up, throw out the internals, throw in a Raspberry Pi, hook up the controller ports, and be proud of their tiny NES box.

 

[blu]

You don't think it could be a miniaturized Wii with a shrunken chipset? Granted I only suggest it because of their choice of controller connector and the fact that all these games are already on Wii VC but not the others. And I know those aren't necessarily clues to anything but hey.

A non-SoC miniNES is out of the question, no matter the shrink scale. I doubt nintendo would deem SoC-ifyng the wii chipset a viable option for something not planned to sell tens of millions.

 

[Audette]

As somebody who owns almost all of these games physically, im still going to get one of these machines. I'm just excited to have the box and it looks so cute, it will be a great addition to my collection

A couple of points come to mind though.
#1 It breaks my heart that it has new controller connections on it. I can't use my NES advantage nor can I buy some decent new official controllers for my actual NES.

#2 Is this thing actually being made by Nintendo? Are we sure it's not been outsourced to some other company? Like those Mini Sega and Atari systems? Also I've seen licenced mini Gameboy systems that are official but also made like crap/crap basic LCD games on them.

#3 Feels like the hype is huge for this, I work in a retail environment and more people have asked me about this thing than I ever knew still liked Nintendo games. Roomates, friends and strangers, all bringing it up in conversation without my prompt. It's pretty cool.

 

[Gamecocks625]

.
#3 Feels like the hype is huge for this, I work in a retail environment and more people have asked me about this thing than I ever knew still liked Nintendo games. Roomates, friends and strangers, all bringing it up in conversation without my prompt. It's pretty cool.

Same. Friends who haven't played a game in 20 years are interested in this thing.

 

[Azure Dream]

#1 It breaks my heart that it has new controller connections on it. I can't use my NES advantage nor can I buy some decent new official controllers for my actual NES.

Probably something like this would do the trick:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00B2K0C8M/?tag=neogaf0e-20

 

[Nosgotham]

looks like nintendo is trying to demonize the masses again!

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

Most people who remotely care about the NES have had NES's entire library on their computers since the mid 90s

This is piracy, no?

 

[mntorankusu]

Probably something like this would do the trick:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00B2K0C8M/?tag=neogaf0e-20

It should, but I bought one of those adapters when they first came out, and it uses a 9-pin connector (like most Chinese Famiclone controllers, Atari, Genesis, etc) and not the official Nintendo 7-pin connector. They started including a little cable adapter later on, but be careful if you buy this because it might be older stock from before they started including the necessary adapter.

Also, for some reason, Nintendo has stated that when playing two player, you must use at least one NES Classic Controller, so you wouldn't be able to use two adapters to enable the player 2 switch on the NES Advantage. It would work if someone makes an adapter that properly identifies as an NES Classic Controller, though.

 

[Lothar]

This is piracy, no?

Unless you have a slot in your computer to put NES games into.

 

[RadarScope1]

Really wish Rad Racer was included. Maybe I'm looking at it w rise tinted glasses but I remember loving that game.

It's a good game. Smooth scrolling and tight controls. You're remembering it correctly.

 

[Correctomundo]

18) both mutant turtles game

Ah, yes. TMNT 3: the Manhattan Project, and TMNT Tournament Fighters. Both Ninja Turtles games.

 

[Gamecocks625]

Ah, yes. TMNT 3: the Manhattan Project, and TMNT Tournament Fighters. Both Ninja Turtles games.

Man those TMNT games were the best

 

[iphys]

Really wish Rad Racer was included. Maybe I'm looking at it w rise tinted glasses but I remember loving that game.

I'm still shocked we never got it as a 3D Classic on 3DS. Should have been trivial to convert it. Maybe they're just worried that the word rad dates it too much, lol.

 

[shouamabane]

How will save states work with the classic NES Controller? I don't see any extra buttons on there.