You also can't simply compare number of cores, especially when one is based on a rumour.
Nintendo Switch: Powered by Custom Nvidia Tegra Chip (Official)
- Thread starter ekim
- Start date
You also can't simply compare number of cores, especially when one is based on a rumour.
I mentioned this in another thread but after thinking about it a little I wonder if it has some value to it...
I'm sure many are familiar with laptop docking stations
You hook up your monitor(s), power source, Ethernet cable, and input devices to the dock. I have to wonder, what if Nintendo is going to start following a laptop model of upgrading? The processor is being touted as scalable, so could it scale up? When the time is right would it be feasible to make a "Switch Pro" where it's the same tablet but with a beefier GPU? All your peripherals and games would still work and you're docking it into the same spot. With mobile computing being so big and Tegra still growing it wouldn't be that out of the question for Nintendo to easily absorb the advancements, right?
Edit: I did a bit more reading about the Tegra and I realized that the "beefier GPU" part isn't valid but I still think if they're sticking with Tegra long term then the scenario is still applicable.
I'm sure many are familiar with laptop docking stations
You hook up your monitor(s), power source, Ethernet cable, and input devices to the dock. I have to wonder, what if Nintendo is going to start following a laptop model of upgrading? The processor is being touted as scalable, so could it scale up? When the time is right would it be feasible to make a "Switch Pro" where it's the same tablet but with a beefier GPU? All your peripherals and games would still work and you're docking it into the same spot. With mobile computing being so big and Tegra still growing it wouldn't be that out of the question for Nintendo to easily absorb the advancements, right?
Edit: I did a bit more reading about the Tegra and I realized that the "beefier GPU" part isn't valid but I still think if they're sticking with Tegra long term then the scenario is still applicable.
This would be my guess, I won't believe it till we get some official info but it would be really nice.
Skittzo0413
Member
The vent appears to be on the top of the screen unit, so the dock couldn't blow air into it since the screen docks in bottom first. I guess we don't know for sure that there's a fan but I would think in this case a vent indicates a fan.
Like the RSX, where Nvidia conned Sony with an overpriced and underpowered GPU.
Nintendo may likely get a raw deal from Nvidia.
amstradcpc
Member
Huge grain of salt:
Pascal based.
3 times less powerful than XB1 mainly by being greatly memory bandwidth starved.
504p is the minimun resolution required by Nintendo and what most games will use:
https://forums.anandtech.com/threads...#post-38530757
Pascal based.
3 times less powerful than XB1 mainly by being greatly memory bandwidth starved.
504p is the minimun resolution required by Nintendo and what most games will use:
https://forums.anandtech.com/threads...#post-38530757
Toadthemushroom
Member
Switch doesn't seem to support Vulkan as the primary graphics API. I also doubt Nvidia is going to re-program all its Shield TV ports for Vulkan when Capcom etc. Would have enough incentive to make Switch-only versions of games like Resi 5.
From https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2016/10/20/nintendo-switch/
This is different. Sony asked them for a gpu last minute. The ps3 wasn't even suppose to use a gpu originally. It was supposed to use two Cell's.
Yeah right, let's compare a mid gen upgrade to a hybrid that needs mobile components to make the concept work. And with made numbers too.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Well...
I'd argue the change from the GBColor to GBA was a pretty huge jump.
But this seems to be a pretty big one. Like going from a poly-starved Xbox to a half step between 360 and XB1.
Nonsense.
TheDeadHeroAlistair
Member
You can see exhaust vents on the top if you look close enough. What I would imagine they're doing is, as mentioned, underclocking the console whilst in portable mode and running the console in full speed, thus activating the active cooling, when docked. That way, they can maintain a similar image quality from the assumed 720p mobile display to the 1080p found on home televisions.
LordOfChaos
Member
Oh, I assumed there was a corresponding vent on the bottom that it could flow through where the dock could blow air in, and come out the top. It would be an interesting design and would save mobile battery life not having a moving part like a fan.
I don't agree that vent necessitates fan either, a few Core M ultrabooks I could think of have a heatsink and an opening for them to the outside, but no fan, to maximize passive heat transfer to air.
Not saying it's *unlikely* either, just covering all the possibilities lol. The Shield Portable had a fan
Link doesn't work, but 3 times less powerful than XB1? XB1 is 1.31TFlop right? So how many GigaFlops does it pull?
WiiU was 352 GFlops right?
Wait,that doesn't make any sense. The Cell wouldn't actually be good for GPU calculations, would it?
KratosEnergyDrink
Member
Do you really believe the footage in such videos is real time? It is never... only game videos projected on a blank screen via post processing.
Skittzo0413
Member
Oh, I assumed there was a corresponding vent on the bottom that it could flow through where the dock could blow air in, and come out the top. It would be an interesting design and would save mobile battery life not having a moving part like a fan.
I don't agree that vent necessitates fan either, a few Core M ultrabooks I could think of have a heatsink and an opening for them to the outside, but no fan, to maximize passive heat transfer to air.
Not saying it's *unlikely* either, just covering all the possibilities lol. The Shield Portable had a fan
Oh that's an interesting point! I don't know if we have every angle of the device so I doubt we can be sure there's no bottom vent at this point.
Emily Rogers has stated though that it is actively cooled though, take that as you will.
Saucycarpdog
Member
It's seems you're in denial that handhelds have been on the decline for the past decade. I would put a statistic but I think you would just ignore it so I won't bother anymore with this conversation.
LordOfChaos
Member
Ah, ok then, I definitely believe her. Question is then, is the fan in the dock or the tablet.
brochiller
Member
I feel like we really don't have any idea about what kind of power this system may be capable of when docked. Sure, we've seen what mobile chips can do in the past, but how many of those chips could take advantage of active cooling and not having to worry about battery consumption at the same time.
Just because this is a smaller package doesn't mean it will conform to our notions of what a device this size is capable of when the Switch is docked.
Just because this is a smaller package doesn't mean it will conform to our notions of what a device this size is capable of when the Switch is docked.
While less powerful than the Xbox One is well within reason 1/3rd the power is ridiculous.
Just a slight clarification on language, but I don't believe she's saying there's processing in the dock, it appears she's saying that there's extra performance while docked. It would definitely point to increased clock speeds while docked, as people have been speculating.
I think 16nm/14nm is a relatively safe bet. 20nm can be discounted pretty much immediately, as there doesn't appear to be any cost benefit over the finFET nodes (see entry and midrange phone SoCs jumping straight from 28nm to finFET). It's basically 28nm or 16nm, and with Nvidia saying it "includes an NVIDIA GPU based on the same architecture as the worlds top-performing GeForce gaming graphics cards", and a couple of leakers (who have now been proven accurate) stating specifically it's Pascal, it would definitely seem like 16nm (or 14nm on an off-chance, not that it would make a meaningful difference) is very likely.
Regarding execution units and clock speeds, I'd expect them to stick to a similar 2 SM arrangement to TX1 (not that there's anything preventing them going with more, just that I've learnt to be cautious when it comes to Nintendo hardware). On the clock speed front, however, I fully expect them to go higher than TX1, at least while docked, for the simple reason that there's active cooling involved. If you've got a 16nm Pascal chip that can easily clock to 1.5GHz and the means to cool it, why not clock it that high? More modest clock speeds should be expected while in portable mode, of course, but I don't see why they wouldn't push well over 1GHz when battery isn't an issue.
shark sandwich
tenuously links anime, pedophile and incels
That was exactly what Sony planned. They wanted to use multiple Cell chips and have Cell do all the graphics.
All the early hype about Cell was about how multiple Cells can work together (like cells in a body). It was a surprise when word leaked out that Sony had collaborated with Nvidia and initially a lot of people didn't think it was related to PS3 (IIRC some higher up at Sony even initially denied that they needed Nvidia's help for PS3).
So yeah, the PS3 we got was definitely Sony's "plan b".
The numbers are weird is why. That resolution minima is a bizarre nonstandard number as well.
KratosEnergyDrink
Member
The cell was, is, a great CPU and was fully capable of such things. But two cells had been raised the price of the PS3 much higher. So Sony decided two use a cheap GPU instead of a second cell. Cell was really great but the rest of the PS3 hardware prevented this precious thing from really show its full power.
Some poster at Anandtech forums (zlatan), which apparently has some reputation over there, is saying some interesting stuff that seem feasible about the Switch:
The 540p is a downer, that's why some of us wanted that resolution for the device in the first place!
- Is based on Pascal.
- Memory speed is the weakest link, capping it's performance at 1/3 of the XBOne.
- Tegra X1 is 1/8 of the XBOne, so the Switch is considerably more powerful.
- Most (third party?) games will run at 540p, which is the minimum resolution allowed by Nintendo.
- No up-clocking when docked, but that can be easy to implement if Nintendo choose to.
- The dock has a dedicated upscalling chip.
The 540p is a downer, that's why some of us wanted that resolution for the device in the first place!
Tegra X1
Schnozberry
Member
I wanna see the receipts.
Having 540p games on the TV would be 100% unacceptable.
The post actually says 504P
Yeah, this. Tegra Parker is not 1/8 Xbox. Hell, it's more than half as powerful.
He seems to think that Memory Bandwidth caps the power of the Tegra X1 at 1/8th - 1/10th of the Bone according to his post. And the Switch chip at 1/3rd the Bone despite the rest of the hardware being better. Which quite frankly sounds ridiculous.
It appears the air inlets for the actual console are in the lower back, pretty much exactly where the dock has a massive indentation. It's never shown in the teaser, but I assume the dock also has vents where the indentation is, which would suggest a fan in the actual unit that, while docked, draws air through those vents in the dock, through the air inlets in the actual unit, and out via the vent at the top.
Parker would have 50gb/s Bandwidth versus the 68gb/s bandwidth of XBONEs ram. Xbone uses a 32MB ESRAM chip for enhanced bandwidth capability. We have no idea of what sort of special customizations Nintendo has. It could have its own chunk of ESRAM as Nintendo has made a habit of.
Zlatan is supossed to be a developer that leaked some stuff before. He also said that there is actually some processing unit inside the dock but it only serves as upscaler from the minimum res. that Nintendo asks to 720p, 1080p or even 4K.
I kinda believe what he says. Switch would be just sightly better than WiiU, and that is basically what we saw in the presentation videos.
I kinda believe what he says. Switch would be just sightly better than WiiU, and that is basically what we saw in the presentation videos.
Schnozberry
Member
This doesn't make a ton of sense to me. If it's Pascal based it would support 128-bit LPDDR4, which would be more than enough for a 720p or 1080p framebuffer. Nintendo and Nvidia are smart enough not to intentionally cripple their own parts. Also, TX1 is not 1/8th the performance of XB1, unless you're taking a myopic look at only the theoretical memory bandwidth.
I'm sure that Nintendo own games will run at higher resolution, 1080p@60fps with SM3DW+ graphics would be very achiebable on this device. But the Next CoD? Not so much, look at how much the Ps4 has to sacrifice to run Battlefield 1.
Skittzo0413
Member
Ah if that's the case it's a very elegant setup, as LordOfChaos said. Can't wait to get some more images of this device and dock!
Claude Augario
Member
"504p"
"3x less powerful than Xone"
So credible.
"3x less powerful than Xone"
So credible.
Well, this is a portable device with almost no active cooling and depending on battery.
It has active cooling when docked, going by the leaks and the vents on the device.
This doesn't make any sense. Shield TV is capable of rendering at higher resolution. Pixel C is capable of rendering at higher resolution. Those statement go against most of the known real world usage cases of recent Tegra chips. Without even adding Pascal to the equation.
Similar threads
- Featured