You're starting to like that bitch that ordered the butchering of a dozen kids? Right.
Also, you should know by now why Cersei dislikes Tyrion that much. It hasn't really been kept under the rug, so to speak.
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*NO BOOK SPOILERS* Game of Thrones - Season 2 - Sundays on HBO (read rules in OP)
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You're starting to like that bitch that ordered the butchering of a dozen kids? Right.
Also, you should know by now why Cersei dislikes Tyrion that much. It hasn't really been kept under the rug, so to speak.
TV logic, no one in movies and television ever dies just because they were hit by the blast
and besides, I don't feel his story is over yet. You'll see, Davos will show up again next season. As for his son, well ...
well actually, I forgot about that. Still, as cruel as her actions sometimes are, she actually had a rather good reason. e: as JGS pointed out below, didn't Joffrey order this?
Sickboy007
Member
So, Bronn versus the Hound. Bronn would cut every single tendon of Clegane before he manages to lift his sword.
The Lamonster
Member
TV logic, no one in movies and television ever dies just because they were hit by the blast
You guys realize miracles happen in real life, too...
People have survived falling off buildings, insane car wrecks, comas, drownings, fires, etc.
Plus the amount of people that watch the show but haven't read the
is large enough that the audience thinks the show is packed to the gills and is perfect TV watching.
The anticipation this show generates is season length irrelevant. They want people to be pumped for next season not have them satisfied one season at a time. I think they accomplish both.
Speaking of the show, some other points I liked:
- Glad that Tywin was as smart as I thought. At first, based on Arya's misunderstanding, I thought he was going to let his whole family die trying to get Robb
- However, now I'm thinking he may have left an easier opening for Robb who is very close to the Lannister stronghold.
- Joffrey is as useless as he is stupid but will come out as a hero for the city. This will firm up Lannister support as one scene a couple of episodes ago seems to indicate that Tyrion is viewed as a spokesman for the King's wishes and not just the brains of the operation.
- Sansa being able to trust the Hound is my offical top relationship. I cannot understand why Hound cares for her so much. However, him not being frightening to her is a great turning point.
- Stannis remains my favorite for king in the short term, but I was rooting for Team Lannister the whole time. I love/hate the show for making me do that because it shows just how difficult politics is and how simple most stories make politics.
books
The anticipation this show generates is season length irrelevant. They want people to be pumped for next season not have them satisfied one season at a time. I think they accomplish both.
Speaking of the show, some other points I liked:
- Glad that Tywin was as smart as I thought. At first, based on Arya's misunderstanding, I thought he was going to let his whole family die trying to get Robb
- However, now I'm thinking he may have left an easier opening for Robb who is very close to the Lannister stronghold.
- Joffrey is as useless as he is stupid but will come out as a hero for the city. This will firm up Lannister support as one scene a couple of episodes ago seems to indicate that Tyrion is viewed as a spokesman for the King's wishes and not just the brains of the operation.
- Sansa being able to trust the Hound is my offical top relationship. I cannot understand why Hound cares for her so much. However, him not being frightening to her is a great turning point.
- Stannis remains my favorite for king in the short term, but I was rooting for Team Lannister the whole time. I love/hate the show for making me do that because it shows just how difficult politics is and how simple most stories make politics.
She didn't order it. She didn't even know about it. Not saying that she wouldn't, but not for the reasons Joffrey had.
I'm not really saying he won't survive, I'm saying that any reason beyond magic that he does survive is lame.TV logic, no one in movies and television ever dies just because they were hit by the blast
and besides, I don't feel his story is over yet. You'll see, Davos will show up again next season. As for his son, well ...
My brain cannot see a way out beyond something miraculous.
Hound is very fast for his size. His size is itself a defense but his speed is surprising. I compare him to Stannis in that department.
The only place Bronn could go initially is for the throat. The fight would be very even imo & I can't wait for it to maybe happen.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Somebody needs to explain me what is this "ship" madness, BTW.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
As creepy/silly as I imagined.
Cersei didn't order it, it was revealed in an earlier episode that Joffrey was the one that made the order and how Cersei couldn't control him & how Joffrey didn't even tell her mother what he had done.
Last Hearth
Member
She also defended Joffrey's action by saying "he did what had to be done".
So she probably would have done it if Joffrey hadn't.
So she probably would have done it if Joffrey hadn't.
walbertsmith
Member
Your posts are usually on point, but I have to respectfully disagree here. While not every viewer has read the books, the showrunners have. If they veer too far off Martin's path, then they risk painting themselves into a corner if a character enters a story arc that eventually contradicts their ultimate fate (especially since Martin isn't done writing the series).
Most likely just because she hates Tyrion so much that she'd doesn't want to agree with him on anything, especially not on criticism of her precious Joffrey.
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
Pretty sure the showrunners know the really big story beats Martin has always had in mind for the series.
Thought I was the only one.
walbertsmith
Member
Yes, of course they do, but (to me) JGS' post implied taking it even further.
In one of my earlier posts, I commented that it's fine that showrunners take certain liberties with minor plot points as long as they still arrive at the same place for the major plot points. JGS' post seemed to want to take it even further.
If I'm mistaken about JGS' post then I will gladly rescind my position though.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
It's not a year, it's less than 10 months since the show takes 10 weeks to air.
Also having a much longer shooting schedule won't work when you have kids playing important roles. They grow up really fast in their pre-teen years.
I agree they can't go too far off path. However, if they keep getting Martin's blessing for the changes while tailoring it to the the TV audience, as opposed to the reader audience, it won't hurt too much.
If Martin objects, then they should back down from it. However, Martin knows TV as much as he does bookwriting and understands the differences between the two mediums. If anything jarring happens (Let's say all the Starks are hacked to pieces by Tyrion Lannister personally lol), then the TV show MUST allow for a preparation for that and be ready with fitting replacements for the Starks. It can't just be the next episode. The even did this with Ned last season. By the time ned was killed, his son had taken the reigns in the north and Tyrion was both more likeable and more responsible. That's not something that's necessary in book form imo.
I think a good example of this is LOTR which deviated quite a bit from the books but came full circle to the point of the books.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
blahblah...blah
Member
I'm pretty damn certain he's gonna live, so maybe it will be for magic reasons, or maybe the whole 'blown to safety / underwater where the wildfire can't get him'. Either way, might want to prepare for disappointment, or - even better - not let it get to you that much.
Or he could die and you'll be a happy camper!
BobTheFork
Member
I can't compare Bran's arc this season to the book at all but even with one episode left it really feels like he didn't do anything this year. He had some good scenes but it consisted of him still explaining the dreams that started early last year and then having to bail because of theon.
This was my initial though, but the size of the explosion means he would have needed to stay under for a fair amount of time and i don't think he would been holding his breath when he went under.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Look at that august motherfucker. Just look at him.
BobTheFork
Member
SO, what are the odds Tywin gives Tyrion any credit at all? Tywin is Smart enough to know what happened. and who did the dirt. He also actually knows who Shae is and told Tyrion not to bring her so this could all go south for Westeros' newest hero, HALF-MAN(tm).
I think Tywin is smart enough to know what was going on. After all was he the one who appointed Tyrion to King's Hand. There's no reason (well except for Shae) to be disappointed in him.
I feel that much like his last meeting with Tyrion where he told him he was going to be hand of the king in his absence, which was a semi but unspoken compliment toward Tyrion. Tywin will probably do something similar.
I feel like Tywin completely slighting Tyrion would be a regression in there relationship from where it last stood. I think tywin has recognized the value of Tyrion and respects him. Though I do think he'll say something about Tyrion allowing his troops to get overrun outside the mud gate.
IAmtheFMan
Member
Hoo boy. I used to mod the countingdown.com LOTR boards. Here's a bunch that I remember off the top of my head that got fanboys in a tizzy.
- No Tom Bombadil scene, and no Barrow-wight scene.
- No Scouring of the Shire
- Faramir changes; in the books he's calm, assists Frodo and Sam, and even Gollum after he was captured, and wasn't tempted by the ring and never took the hobbits as prisoners.
- Arwen in place of Glorfindel (taking Frodo to Rivendell.)
- No Elves were in the book in Helm's Deep. The LOTR-faithful were in a complete mess when they heard rumors about Arwen being at Helm's Deep as a "warrior princess" role (whih was filmed.)
- Aragorn accepts his role as the heir much earlier than ROTK in the book. He's also in general much more noble and calm then the way Viggo portrayed him.
- Denethor is portrayed as a psychopath in the movies where in the books the Palantir (and Sauron) has worked to fill his head with tons of Dark-lord-propaganda, him being really a wise man.
- Theoden isn't "possessed" in the books, but rather just manipulated by Wormtongue.
- TTT movie added the whole warg attack and Aragorn going over the cliff and catching up later at Helm's Deep.
- Sam never was sent away by Frodo (in TTT) as in the movie.
- The Entmoot was pretty different; the Ents were pissed all to hell about Saruman's cutting of the forest and wanted to meet and go to war, but in the movie they decide not to until they stumble upon the decimation.
... and many more. Some are omissions of characters (Glorfindel, Prince Imarhil, Radagast, Beregond, etc,) dialogue changes (Eowyn vs. Witch-King is a good example) while some are just subtle changes here and there, added scenes and such.
BobTheFork
Member
That sounds the most likely. There no way Tyrion gets totaly praise for this. Maybe Tywin will bring him the leg Tyrion sheared off that first soldier.
edit: Hmmm that picture makes me think that Joeffrey and Cercei and going to publically give Tywin all of the credit. They both hate Tyrion and it feels like the chance to stick the knife in.
Also where is my Tyrion cutting a man's leg off Gif.
We could aslo use one of Pod 'bringing the Payne'
kame-sennin
Member
However, I thought his "fuck it" speech was also due to him being drunk.
I mean, even with his fear of fire (and was that really his first fight that involved fire?) he would not just say "fuck the king" to the king he is sworn to protect? That's basically treason and they probably let him only go because he's the fucking Hound
He wasn't drunk, he only had a swig of wine. His speech came from the fact that his nerves were completely rattled. When you come down from an adrenaline rush like that, your emotions can fluctuate wildly.
It's for the wounded.
This is a strange thing to say after this episode in particular. Lena Heady does tend to fall into some mediocre acting from time to time, but this episode showed that when she gets challenging material, she hits it out of the park. The problem is that most scenes require her to be gloomy and one-note, so she falls back on a very cliched performance style. That's no excuse, but she's consistently shown that when she gets a chance to stretch herself, she's incredibly talented.
Just watched the episode.
Im always pretty confused at whats happening, i thought/hoped at the end scene where Tyrion is dying(?) the guy on the white horse was going to be Jaimie. Would have been awesome but i know that it would not make sense. I really hoped to see him arrive to save his little brother.
So just as i feared from reading comments nobody is really sure that Tyrion is still alive. For a split second i thought that dude cut his head in half.
In any show i would say yeah he is alive, but these guys are too brutal, and lets be honest if they would kill of Tyrion it would be just like they did here, not just quick head in half but make it slow and emotional just enough time to see his father arrive.
So what are the general thoughts? Dead or alive?
Edit: Also kinda confused at the kid with Cersei, i thought her plan was when Stannis enters the room they would think that kid was Joffrey and they would kill him and not her son. But who whas that little boy? A younger son?
Im always pretty confused at whats happening, i thought/hoped at the end scene where Tyrion is dying(?) the guy on the white horse was going to be Jaimie. Would have been awesome but i know that it would not make sense. I really hoped to see him arrive to save his little brother.
So just as i feared from reading comments nobody is really sure that Tyrion is still alive. For a split second i thought that dude cut his head in half.
In any show i would say yeah he is alive, but these guys are too brutal, and lets be honest if they would kill of Tyrion it would be just like they did here, not just quick head in half but make it slow and emotional just enough time to see his father arrive.
So what are the general thoughts? Dead or alive?
Edit: Also kinda confused at the kid with Cersei, i thought her plan was when Stannis enters the room they would think that kid was Joffrey and they would kill him and not her son. But who whas that little boy? A younger son?
walbertsmith
Member
Fair enough, I mostly agree with everything, provided Martin signs off on everything. Good points about his experience with TV, I had forgotten about that.
Sidenote: I'm not entirely sure LOTR is an equivalent analogy though just because the source material was already (long) complete before the movies were made.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
Right, but none of those are significant deviations from the plot of the books, they were just changes to allow the books to fit into relatively reasonable length films. They didn't "go down their own path" like he was suggesting.
Apparently the Tywin/Arya stuff wasn't in the books? Those were some of the best scenes this season, so if that's the kind of deviations they do, I'm all for it.
Her youngest son. She planned to poison him rather than let Stannis take him captive.
Sickboy007
Member
I'd say he was very agitated even before that, see the confrontation with Bronn. My impression is that he's had enough of King's Landing and the Lannisters, and that his breakdown was mostly precipitated by his affection for Sansa (who was almost raped just some hours before that).
The timeframes were huge deviations to the point of really changing the whole pace of the story. Plus the the timing of particular events changed depending on the book and place. It made more sense for some battles to take place in Return of the King as opposed to Two Towers for example.
For time and story, it's no surprise at all that that characters are changed,mmerged, or removed altogether. For casting purposes, the looks/personality of some charctaers change because no matter how hard one tries, it is impossible for even a normal book to be adapted faithfully. When we are talking about a story as sweeping and, rumor has it, dense as GoT, it is doubly impossible.
Case in point is the notion that the series needs to be way more than 10 episodes to be faithful to the source. It doesn't. It just needs to tell the story in the best way possible and the best way is without memory of its source material imo. Otherwise, there is no way but to be disappointed by the outcome unless you don't like the source.
From my POV, the series is a nice length and the only reason I want a longer series is because I don't want the show to end, not because it seems short or missing something. I'm amazed at how much they pack in while at the same time putting a lot of heart and drama into it.
IAmtheFMan
Member
The Faramir stuff was. In the book, they basically run into him, say what's up, convince him that Gollum's okay then go on their way. Faramir never is tempted, never takes them prisoner en route to Minas Tirith, and never takes them to Osgiliath where they run into the Nazgul and Frodo in a daze almost willingly gives the ring to the Nazgul before Sam tackles him, and Frodo lashes out and threatens Sam with Sting.
I'd say that's a pretty different path, not that I necessarily have a huge problem with it (although a LOOOT of Tolkien fans did.) The point is that they still get to the same point where Faramir lets them go, and goes and does his thing back to where he is in ROTK.
I really don't want to get into it since we're veering off into book vs. show territory, which is really what the other thread is for, but GoT IMO is thus far pretty comparable.
Comes into non spoiler thread and sees gif of promo for next episode. Please don't post any others
Yeah, it's not a spoiler but again, others might think it's okay to break those rules and then it would suck.
Don't openly post preview stuff.
Comes into non spoiler thread and sees gif of promo for next episode. Please don't post any others
Well... it's not like the promo is a book spoiler, and the thread title says "NO BOOK SPOILERS"....
But okay, I won't post any more.
Cornballer
Member
Once more for the new page. Please note that regular tv thread rules apply and preview discussion should be spoiler tagged.
If you've read the books, please use the other thread. Thanks for your cooperation.
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Yes me too. I'm betting he's still alive, but with this show him being truly dead wouldn't surprise me. Early in the season I didn't care for the whole Stannis, Davos, Red Witch story at all. Matter of fact, I didn't even know who they were for a little bit. But I came around.
I hope Tyrion gets props for the way he took charge and led the men after Joffrey bailed. It was his tactics that held off Stannis in the first place. Tywin rode in and kicked ass of course but the city would have been lost already without Tyrion's planning. And I think he's alive, I think he was closing his eyes in relief at the end. I don't see how Joffrey comes out of this with any respect from his people at all. They were already throwing dung at him anyway.
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